Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published

[Jay]

This whole topic and thread is starting to make me feel sick.

[Debbie KL]

This whole topic and thread is starting to make me feel sick.

Yep. Imagine living it. My first conversation with Melinda (before they were married) was agreeing how amazingly strong Brian is. We focus in his emotional fragility, but he's also one tough cookie. He's been out there touring in spite of physical challenges. Let's look at that up-side.

[JakeH]

This whole topic and thread is starting to make me feel sick.

Yep. Imagine living it. My first conversation with Melinda (before they were married) was agreeing how amazingly strong Brian is. We focus in his emotional fragility, but he's also one tough cookie. He's been out there touring in spite of physical challenges. Let's look at that up-side.

Yes - There is a very significant upside, happy endings in Hollywood movies look like one thing, but in real life, they can look like what you see today. (this in my opinion is one reason the 2015 movie didn't really catch on with a larger audience - among other things, it wasn't Hollywood enough) There is also tremendous loss and regret in this story. It's basically life as it is for most people. 

Re: above - sorry that you feel sick - I hope the implication is not that the posters in this thread (including myself) are responsible for that feeling, because we're not.  The story is what it is, and some of these comments are merely reflecting on reality - what is.  I do agree that perhaps this subject is not suitable for a good-natured fan message board which is better suited to battle-of-the-bands and rank-the-best type stuff, which is fine, and fun.

One more comment. The main reason why the story is even discernable to random members of the public is because Brian Wilson lived. If he had died, say in 1969, or 1974, or 1989, his story would have died with him.  If a person doesn't like the ugly stuff, fine, but know that the case can be made that the person most responsible for this information being known is Brian Wilson himself - by surviving, and by passive-aggressively permitting his story to be told by others.  There is of course push-back against this, as only most recently expressed in the material that is the subject of this thread.  Everyone is free to look at the story and come to his own conclusion.  Maybe it's an anti-drug story, maybe it's something else, maybe it's both.

(and as Debbie KL is saying, the idea that Brian is "fragile" is preposterous. You want to see fragility, turn on your t.v.)

[CenturyDeprived]

This whole topic and thread is starting to make me feel sick.

Yep. Imagine living it. My first conversation with Melinda (before they were married) was agreeing how amazingly strong Brian is. We focus in his emotional fragility, but he's also one tough cookie. He's been out there touring in spite of physical challenges. Let's look at that up-side.

Yes - There is a very significant upside, happy endings in Hollywood movies look like one thing, but in real life, they can look like what you see today. (this in my opinion is one reason the 2015 movie didn't really catch on with a larger audience - among other things, it wasn't Hollywood enough) There is also tremendous loss and regret in this story. It's basically life as it is for most people.  

Re: above - sorry that you feel sick - I hope the implication is not that the posters in this thread (including myself) are responsible for that feeling, because we're not.  The story is what it is, and some of these comments are merely reflecting on reality - what is.  I do agree that perhaps this subject is not suitable for a good-natured fan message board which is better suited to battle-of-the-bands and rank-the-best type stuff, which is fine, and fun.

One more comment. The main reason why the story is even discernable to random members of the public is because Brian Wilson lived. If he had died, say in 1969, or 1974, or 1989, his story would have died with him.  If a person doesn't like the ugly stuff, fine, but know that the case can be made that the person most responsible for this information being known is Brian Wilson himself - by surviving, and by passive-aggressively permitting his story to be told by others.  There is of course push-back against this, as only most recently expressed in the material that is the subject of this thread.  Everyone is free to look at the story and come to his own conclusion.  Maybe it's an anti-drug story, maybe it's something else, maybe it's both.

(and as Debbie KL is saying, the idea that Brian is "fragile" is preposterous. You want to see fragility, turn on your t.v.)

Since everyone here (apart from the discussion about the book itself, which has content that has obviously been compromised due to the spector of legal threats) seems to be discussing these tricky topics with respect, I think it's basically a good thing for this stuff to be examined.

I say it's a good thing when a d-bag like Landy (and his methods) has his actions examined and discussed, so that people know just what type of damage people like that can inflict on others, in the hopes that this story is well-known and won't be repeated with a different vulnerable person and a different quack.

The more the public knows about the methods of cretins like these, perhaps someone in Gloria's position might be more attuned to notice abuse in another situation. That said, it can be difficult to read writings about this topic as it relates to Brian, just as some of the scenes in Love & Mercy are cringeworthy in their brutal honesty about an awful time for a good man being abused by a genuinely bad guy.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

This whole topic and thread is starting to make me feel sick.

Yep. Imagine living it. My first conversation with Melinda (before they were married) was agreeing how amazingly strong Brian is. We focus in his emotional fragility, but he's also one tough cookie. He's been out there touring in spite of physical challenges. Let's look at that up-side.

Yes - There is a very significant upside, happy endings in Hollywood movies look like one thing, but in real life, they can look like what you see today. (this in my opinion is one reason the 2015 movie didn't really catch on with a larger audience - among other things, it wasn't Hollywood enough) There is also tremendous loss and regret in this story. It's basically life as it is for most people. 

Re: above - sorry that you feel sick - I hope the implication is not that the posters in this thread (including myself) are responsible for that feeling, because we're not.  The story is what it is, and some of these comments are merely reflecting on reality - what is.  I do agree that perhaps this subject is not suitable for a good-natured fan message board which is better suited to battle-of-the-bands and rank-the-best type stuff, which is fine, and fun.

One more comment. The main reason why the story is even discernable to random members of the public is because Brian Wilson lived. If he had died, say in 1969, or 1974, or 1989, his story would have died with him.  If a person doesn't like the ugly stuff, fine, but know that the case can be made that the person most responsible for this information being known is Brian Wilson himself - by surviving, and by passive-aggressively permitting his story to be told by others.  There is of course push-back against this, as only most recently expressed in the material that is the subject of this thread.  Everyone is free to look at the story and come to his own conclusion.  Maybe it's an anti-drug story, maybe it's something else, maybe it's both.

(and as Debbie KL is saying, the idea that Brian is "fragile" is preposterous. You want to see fragility, turn on your t.v.)

Since everyone here (apart from the discussion about the book itself, which has content that has obviously been compromised due to the spector of legal threats) seems to be discussing these tricky topics with respect, I think it's basically a good thing for this stuff to be examined.

I say it's a good thing when a d-bag like Landy (and his methods) has his actions examined and discussed, so that people know just what type of damage people like that can inflict on others, in the hopes that this story is well-known and won't be repeated with a different vulnerable person and a different quack.

The more the public knows about the methods of cretins like these, perhaps someone in Gloria's position might be more attuned to notice abuse in another situation. That said, it can be difficult to read writings about this topic as it relates to Brian, just as some of the scenes in Love & Mercy are cringeworthy in their brutal honesty about an awful time for a good man being abused by a genuinely bad guy.

I agree with you. I am curious as to the legal issues the book is having. I have heard that many have accused Rocky of being a liar, but I haven't seen any contradictions to what was written about him in Stebbins book The Real Beach Boy. But I am also curious if others that were around like Marilyn,  Stan, Stephen or Mike have read the book and agree or disagree with it's context. While I don't support everything Rocky and Stan did, the story sounds believable.  Flaws and all. I think we can all look in the mirror and see that at times we have done the wrong thing with right motive. I don't know what Rocky's motives were/are.  They could be bad. But most of us don't know. I will also point out that Mike also cares for Brian. He has shown a distrust for people caring for Brian. Even today! He believes Melinda has alternative motives. I do believe there were plenty of signs that Eugene had alternative motives.  Though his son days the movie was unfair to Eugene. I would be interested in hearing Eugene's son side of the story too. While this stuff may be too depressing for some, and they like to focus on the positive,  I can understand that as well. Perhaps, I am a nerd and like to know everything and all sides. If Murray had written a book, I would read it! Doesn't matter if I like the person or doubt their motives. Every one thinks they have a good reason in their own mind for what they do. Right or wrong. So I choose to have an attitude of mercy. Even with someone as evil as Charles Manson, I see his up bring or lack there of. By no means a justification, but an understanding of his background lead him down a destructive path. I am sure he also had mental illness or demons that were never properly treated.

[JakeH]

Though his son days the movie was unfair to Eugene. I would be interested in hearing Eugene's son side of the story too. 

Morbid curiosity, sure

If Murray had written a book, I would read it! 

Well you've got something better - Murry's letter to Brian form 1965.  Pure, uncut Murry.  Probably the single most significant piece of writing ever on the subject of Brian Wilson, and therefore the Beach Boys.

[Debbie KL]

Why do I waste my time? Never mind. People love gossip, no matter how discredited the source is.

[NOLA BB Fan]

Thank you Debbie KL for your support of Brian.

And as for "fairness" re Landy. The "puppy" episode Brian mentioned in his book told me everything I needed to know about the guy.

[Debbie KL]

Thank you Debbie KL for your support of Brian.

And as for "fairness" re Landy. The "puppy" episode Brian mentioned in his book told me everything I needed to know about the guy.

Thanks so much. I think, at this point, just celebrating that Brian survived all of that and has done such wonderful things since is pretty great.

Don't know how much I'll be around, since my husband is in the hospital again. I'm just glad professionals are looking at him.

[CenturyDeprived]

Thank you Debbie KL for your support of Brian.

And as for "fairness" re Landy. The "puppy" episode Brian mentioned in his book told me everything I needed to know about the guy.

Thanks so much. I think, at this point, just celebrating that Brian survived all of that and has done such wonderful things since is pretty great.

Don't know how much I'll be around, since my husband is in the hospital again. I'm just glad professionals are looking at him.

 Sending all the best good vibrations your and your husband's way, Debbie

[Jay]

Just to clarify, my "sick" comment the other day was regarding the subject of the will and what might have happened if actions hadn't been made. I also started to think about people like Debbie, who actually witnessed what went down back then, and it occurred to me that we probably only know a small fraction of just how horrible things got for Brian. That's what kind of turned my stomach a bit and gave me a sick empty feeling. I don't think we can ever thank you, Debbie, for being there for him during that time.

[Pretty Funky]

I’m paraphrasing here but many years ago on the Brit site Bruce said : Fans know 90% of 10% of Beach Boys history, but only 10% of the other 90%.

Going by what I have read of the Landy and Rocky years, I’ve read enough personally.

[Jay]

I’m paraphrasing here but many years ago on the Brit site Bruce said : Fans know 90% of 10% of Beach Boys history, but only 10% of the other 90%.

Going by what I have read of the Landy and Rocky years, I’ve read enough personally.

Yeah, me too, I think. For my birthday last year I got a first edition copy of the Wilson Project book. I still haven't read it. After what I've read from people who have read it, I'm almost scared to.

[RangeRoverA1]

Just to clarify, my "sick" comment the other day was regarding the subject of the will and what might have happened if actions hadn't been made. I also started to think about people like Debbie, who actually witnessed what went down back then, and it occurred to me that we probably only know a small fraction of just how horrible things got for Brian. That's what kind of turned my stomach a bit and gave me a sick empty feeling. I don't think we can ever thank you, Debbie, for being there for him during that time.

Don't forget Melinda. She's terrific wife to Brian, stands by him thru & thru.

[Debbie KL]

Just to clarify, my "sick" comment the other day was regarding the subject of the will and what might have happened if actions hadn't been made. I also started to think about people like Debbie, who actually witnessed what went down back then, and it occurred to me that we probably only know a small fraction of just how horrible things got for Brian. That's what kind of turned my stomach a bit and gave me a sick empty feeling. I don't think we can ever thank you, Debbie, for being there for him during that time.

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else. I think any caring human who loved Brian would have done whatever they could. In my case, I didn't get the job done.

I don't think anyone here is trying to ignore what Melinda has accomplished - least of all me if anyone cares to look at my history of posts. I think her, Gloria's and my friends' efforts made them genuine heroes. I'm getting a bit tired of having my thread of posts mischaracterized, along with others who've posted.

[RangeRoverA1]

Debbie KL - as you see, I replied to Jay. Figured I'd get support that actually, I defend Melinda, not be told I "mischaracterize" your posts. & sadly, it isn't true that *anyone* here doesn't ignore what Melinda accomplished. Many do ignore that fact, if you read thru many posts in many threads.

Including Jay who you thanked. Here's few examples:

I remember that when it aired. Brian jumps all over Melinda for badmouthing Marylin. 

Seriously? Laughing at Melinda being scolded by Brian? It strikes me as really unpleasant, as if Jay derides her.

Hey, if Brian decides tomorrow that he and Mike are on the same creative page and they fly off to some remote island retreat to write pop masterpieces, I'd say "cool beans!"  I don't anticipate that, because it doesn't seem to be the way Brian works these days. I also don't expect Mike to tune up the mega tour bus caravan with the 40 piece orchestra, giant video screen and catered birthday cake for the next Beach Boys gig. Mike needs to concede to Brian's current creative method, and Brian needs to give Mike more comfort room in the tours. They need to let each other play to their strengths instead of making demands in the areas of their weaknesses. 

I'm with you on that.

I think Melinda is the one who needs to be sent to a remote island.

Here, Debbie KL, it's very clearly shown to you that Jay definitely ignores Melinda's accomplishments. The style he speaks about Melinda is very much looking like derision & annoyance by her, that he doesn't like her being Brian's management team. As if it's up to Jay to decide it.

Glad to help.

[Debbie KL]

Debbie KL - as you see, I replied to Jay. Figured I'd get support that actually, I defend Melinda, not be told I "mischaracterize" your posts. & sadly, it isn't true that *anyone* here doesn't ignore what Melinda accomplished. Many do ignore that fact, if you read thru many posts in many threads.

Including Jay who you thanked. Here's few examples:

I remember that when it aired. Brian jumps all over Melinda for badmouthing Marylin.  

Seriously? Laughing at Melinda being scolded by Brian? It strikes me as really unpleasant, as if Jay derides her.

Hey, if Brian decides tomorrow that he and Mike are on the same creative page and they fly off to some remote island retreat to write pop masterpieces, I'd say "cool beans!"  I don't anticipate that, because it doesn't seem to be the way Brian works these days. I also don't expect Mike to tune up the mega tour bus caravan with the 40 piece orchestra, giant video screen and catered birthday cake for the next Beach Boys gig. Mike needs to concede to Brian's current creative method, and Brian needs to give Mike more comfort room in the tours. They need to let each other play to their strengths instead of making demands in the areas of their weaknesses.  

I'm with you on that.

I think Melinda is the one who needs to be sent to a remote island.

Here, Debbie KL, it's very clearly shown to you that Jay definitely ignores Melinda's accomplishments. The style he speaks about Melinda is very much looking like derision & annoyance by her, that he doesn't like her being Brian's management team. As if it's up to Jay to decide it.

Glad to help.

Thanks for correcting me on this. I had grown used to your mis-reading or misunderstanding my posts from my point of view, so I took it personally.  I genuinely apologize. I think we often fail to connect with each other because of a communication failure between us. Also, I've been trying to absorb some very difficult medical news about my husband, so my judgment wasn't the best yesterday.

There was only 1 reason I came on this board back in the bad old days of SS before it became a better place (thx mods), Friends kept letting me know that people were trashing and lying about people I'm fond of, some of whom are among my closest friends. After some time here, I continued to visit when I could because I made some good friend and love the humor. Maybe we can find common ground here and start being friends as well. One thing I won't ever agree with is that it's okay to steal musicians' work. Your idea that Brian would be fine with it, couldn't be further from the truth.

Also, I'm making no accusations against Jay - I don't know the context of his posts, nor do I know when they took place. A lot of people were misled in the past.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Debbie KL - as you see, I replied to Jay. Figured I'd get support that actually, I defend Melinda, not be told I "mischaracterize" your posts. & sadly, it isn't true that *anyone* here doesn't ignore what Melinda accomplished. Many do ignore that fact, if you read thru many posts in many threads.

Including Jay who you thanked. Here's few examples:

I remember that when it aired. Brian jumps all over Melinda for badmouthing Marylin. 

Seriously? Laughing at Melinda being scolded by Brian? It strikes me as really unpleasant, as if Jay derides her.

Hey, if Brian decides tomorrow that he and Mike are on the same creative page and they fly off to some remote island retreat to write pop masterpieces, I'd say "cool beans!"  I don't anticipate that, because it doesn't seem to be the way Brian works these days. I also don't expect Mike to tune up the mega tour bus caravan with the 40 piece orchestra, giant video screen and catered birthday cake for the next Beach Boys gig. Mike needs to concede to Brian's current creative method, and Brian needs to give Mike more comfort room in the tours. They need to let each other play to their strengths instead of making demands in the areas of their weaknesses. 

I'm with you on that.

I think Melinda is the one who needs to be sent to a remote island.

Here, Debbie KL, it's very clearly shown to you that Jay definitely ignores Melinda's accomplishments. The style he speaks about Melinda is very much looking like derision & annoyance by her, that he doesn't like her being Brian's management team. As if it's up to Jay to decide it.

Glad to help.

Old posts?! Now I know you're just out to start trouble. You know good and well his opinions have changed on that once he realized what Andrew Doe is/was. Not the first time we've had this discussion, either.

I'll decide the length later.

[Debbie KL]

Debbie KL - as you see, I replied to Jay. Figured I'd get support that actually, I defend Melinda, not be told I "mischaracterize" your posts. & sadly, it isn't true that *anyone* here doesn't ignore what Melinda accomplished. Many do ignore that fact, if you read thru many posts in many threads.

Including Jay who you thanked. Here's few examples:

I remember that when it aired. Brian jumps all over Melinda for badmouthing Marylin. 

Seriously? Laughing at Melinda being scolded by Brian? It strikes me as really unpleasant, as if Jay derides her.

Hey, if Brian decides tomorrow that he and Mike are on the same creative page and they fly off to some remote island retreat to write pop masterpieces, I'd say "cool beans!"  I don't anticipate that, because it doesn't seem to be the way Brian works these days. I also don't expect Mike to tune up the mega tour bus caravan with the 40 piece orchestra, giant video screen and catered birthday cake for the next Beach Boys gig. Mike needs to concede to Brian's current creative method, and Brian needs to give Mike more comfort room in the tours. They need to let each other play to their strengths instead of making demands in the areas of their weaknesses. 

I'm with you on that.

I think Melinda is the one who needs to be sent to a remote island.

Here, Debbie KL, it's very clearly shown to you that Jay definitely ignores Melinda's accomplishments. The style he speaks about Melinda is very much looking like derision & annoyance by her, that he doesn't like her being Brian's management team. As if it's up to Jay to decide it.

Glad to help.

Old posts?! Now I know you're just out to start trouble. You know good and well his opinions have changed on that once he realized what Andrew Doe is/was. Not the first time we've had this discussion, either.

I'll decide the length later.

Thx Billy, for explaining. I reached out, even though I was wary of the motives, since whenever she responded to me since our dust up over stealing Brian's music, has seemed passive-aggressive. I'm hoping for the best, in any case.

[Don Malcolm]

Debbie, I will presumptuously speak for one and all: we are all sending you and your husband our love and prayers for him to come through his health issues. As I've always said, you and Ray and Ed are the reasons why SS is the place to be for talking BBs--you guys are the "soul" of this place and we are always in your debt!

[Debbie KL]

Debbie, I will presumptuously speak for one and all: we are all sending you and your husband our love and prayers for him to come through his health issues. As I've always said, you and Ray and Ed are the reasons why SS is the place to be for talking BBs--you guys are the "soul" of this place and we are always in your debt!

Don, thanks so much for the kind support. I'll keep people apprised toward the end of the week as I know more about his condition and I get a chance to post. Actually, I've oddly had more time now that there's an entire hospital staff doing my work.  I think Ray, Ed and I are just honest people who care about people we've known and loved over the years. I think the good people like you who are better about posting are the soul of this place.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Debbie, I will presumptuously speak for one and all: we are all sending you and your husband our love and prayers for him to come through his health issues. As I've always said, you and Ray and Ed are the reasons why SS is the place to be for talking BBs--you guys are the "soul" of this place and we are always in your debt!

Kudos to Don. And Deb, just know that there are many, just many of us out here that are wishing you and your husband the best we can. I know it's just cyberspace, but the well wishes are in real time. You are our treasure.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

1000 times agreed..glad to have you here!

[Jay]

Not that I really have to explain myself, but a few years ago the prevailing opinion of Melinda is that she was basically another Landy, in that she was possibly medicating Brian and basically making his career choices for him, regardless of his own feelings. Obviously I bought into that for a while.

Oh, and that post about the Larry King interview? That smile icon was in response to Brian sticking up for Marilyn. I thought it was cool of him to stick up for an old ex wife.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Truth be told we were led to believe that by someone we thought was credible. Meh...like someone I know says ,It was s thing that happened “