Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM?

[Jay]

Consider this scenario for a moment, if you will: What if The Beach Boys as a collective unit have come together to announce and support their friend and partner, Mike Love, in having his own line of Beach Boys related clothing? What if Brian himself gave his full approval and blessing? Would that change anybody's tune?

Well if they actually all talked about the shirt thing, joked about it, and said they were supporting Mike's line, it would make a little more sense, and it would less weird if Brian/Al said they were knowingly supporting Mike and added that they just simply decided to wear their street clothes just because they're more comfortable in them. It'd still be bizarre, but maybe it'd make more sense if they were upfront like that in your hypothetical scenario.

But you didn't answer my question about KISS.  What if KISS reunited and did a press conference, but only 2 or 3 of them were dressed up in the iconic makeup, but the other(s) weren't? With no band member mentioning a peep about the difference. Would that not strike you as weird?

I think that the KISS scenario would play out exactly the same way. The hardcore fans would be elated, and the jaded fans of Ace and Peter would blame either Paul or Gene for refusing to allow the other two to wear the makeup, thereby insuring that they wouldn't really be fully "reunited". Now, if it were Paul or Gene not wearing the makeup? I'm not really sure how that would play out. 

[HeyJude]

I agree actually but you gotta admit, it does look off at first glance especially since those are Mike Love branded shirts. That said at the end of the day it was heartening to see them laughing together

There shouldn't be a "but..." in any of this. The surviving members of one of the greatest groups on earth have come together once again, against all logic and odds, and all anybody on this board can talk about is the evil Mike Love somehow cashing in on this and making a quick buck. This board embarrasses me at times.

I think this ignores the nature of discussion boards. If there's no "but" and we just take each event for what it is, then it would be case of posting the pics of the event, confirm they all showed up, and then close the thread.

They haven't been in the same room in almost six years, and that decision to not be together was very deliberate and informed by very specific things. So when they're back in the room together, *everything* is going to be talked about. What they wore, what faces they made or didn't make. Whether Al actually got to talk or not. Who arrived with whom and when. What was overheard before and after the event? Small talk? Asking Brian to write songs? Al telling Bruce he parked in the wrong reserved spot?

The shirts thing isn't of epic proportions. But it isn't *not* a thing either. Mike and Bruce (and Dave) all dressing in matching outfits while Brian and Al wore whatever is a pretty big giant flashing sign that says "not on the same page" or "differing visions" or "two divided camps attempting to be together", or whatever phrase one wants to use.

It would be like Ringo and Paul showing up in their Sgt. Pepper uniforms for the 1994 "Free As a Bird" sessions while George just showed up in regular street clothes. It can't *not* be noticed and noted. And indeed, outlets that *don't* micro-analyze this stuff like we do, including Rolling Stone and Billboard, immediately took note of the marked camps outlined by dress differences.

[HeyJude]

Okay, to be CLEAR, I'm doing this mostly for s**ts and giggles and I'm NOT suggesting the shirt thing is of epic proportions. But the most rudimentary of 10-second photochopping indicates to me that the shirts thing still would have been *pretty* noticeable had they swapped chairs. Maybe a little less noticeable, but I don't think the obvious appearances to media outlets would have been completely ignored:

[HeyJude]

And hey, it could have been far worse (or better?):

[CenturyDeprived]

Consider this scenario for a moment, if you will: What if The Beach Boys as a collective unit have come together to announce and support their friend and partner, Mike Love, in having his own line of Beach Boys related clothing? What if Brian himself gave his full approval and blessing? Would that change anybody's tune?

Well if they actually all talked about the shirt thing, joked about it, and said they were supporting Mike's line, it would make a little more sense, and it would less weird if Brian/Al said they were knowingly supporting Mike and added that they just simply decided to wear their street clothes just because they're more comfortable in them. It'd still be bizarre, but maybe it'd make more sense if they were upfront like that in your hypothetical scenario.

But you didn't answer my question about KISS.  What if KISS reunited and did a press conference, but only 2 or 3 of them were dressed up in the iconic makeup, but the other(s) weren't? With no band member mentioning a peep about the difference. Would that not strike you as weird?

I think that the KISS scenario would play out exactly the same way. The hardcore fans would be elated, and the jaded fans of Ace and Peter would blame either Paul or Gene for refusing to allow the other two to wear the makeup, thereby insuring that they wouldn't really be fully "reunited". Now, if it were Paul or Gene not wearing the makeup? I'm not really sure how that would play out.  

But it would still be "embarrassing" to be on a KISS message board where some members point out the difference (and weirdness) in some members being in makeup (and some not)?

Bottom line is that yeah, I get that fans shouldn't be unenthusiastic about the BBs reuniting. We should all be happy that they are in the room together *above all else* because it means they are having some sort of positive human connection on some level. That's a good thing. It's historically significant and it makes me very happy on some level.

But nobody should be shamed for having the "audacity" to also express that it's a perplexing, baffling thing to see the divide as clear as day just in the optics. It doesn't mean that people are "only" seeing the weirdness in the situation of the band reuniting.

We can be happy to see them together and also we can't unsee the weird parts either, and those who point it out shouldn't have their "buts" policed. Unfortunately, there are way too many legit "buts" in the history of this band (per Jack "Nostradamus" Rieley's famous and almost always correct quote)... it's a reminder how this band, that we all know and love, always find a way to do something weird and clunky, unlike a band like The Beatles which were able to somehow be much more wise in the things they did under their name. Such is life, but I won't be an ostrich and not point out and laughingly gripe about when member(s) of the band do this kind of stuff.

The 2018 shirt snafu is like having "Bull Session with Big Daddy" at the end of Today Side B. Just when things were finally going so well, there's a WTF distraction moment that most people wish wasn't there. Like HeyJude said, it's not the biggest deal in the world, and maybe I'm overly bitching about it, but it is unfortunate that it couldn't have been avoided.

[Pretty Funky]

So as nobody as mentioned it, I will. Mike turns up with a shirt for Brian and Al. Just how hard is it for a 76 year old in a wheelchair to change after undergoing major back surgery? Legit question.

[the captain]

Consider this scenario for a moment, if you will: What if The Beach Boys as a collective unit have come together to announce and support their friend and partner, Mike Love, in having his own line of Beach Boys related clothing? What if Brian himself gave his full approval and blessing? Would that change anybody's tune?

Well if they actually all talked about the shirt thing, joked about it, and said they were supporting Mike's line, it would make a little more sense, and it would less weird if Brian/Al said they were knowingly supporting Mike and added that they just simply decided to wear their street clothes just because they're more comfortable in them. It'd still be bizarre, but maybe it'd make more sense if they were upfront like that in your hypothetical scenario.

But you didn't answer my question about KISS.  What if KISS reunited and did a press conference, but only 2 or 3 of them were dressed up in the iconic makeup, but the other(s) weren't? With no band member mentioning a peep about the difference. Would that not strike you as weird?

I think that the KISS scenario would play out exactly the same way. The hardcore fans would be elated, and the jaded fans of Ace and Peter would blame either Paul or Gene for refusing to allow the other two to wear the makeup, thereby insuring that they wouldn't really be fully "reunited". Now, if it were Paul or Gene not wearing the makeup? I'm not really sure how that would play out. 

For a good analogy, it would have to be Ace and/or Peter not in makeup: original members not currently in the band. But we’d also need a non original member (eg Bruce) in makeup. With Eric Carr deceased, that leaves an in-makeup Vinnie Vincent with Gene and Paul. And Vinnie would look SPECTACULAR in costume these days!

You know what else? I bet Brian’s reaction would be pretty similar to Ace’s: laughter.

[guitarfool2002]

So as nobody as mentioned it, I will. Mike turns up with a shirt for Brian and Al. Just how hard is it for a 76 year old in a wheelchair to change after undergoing major back surgery? Legit question.

You would expect Brian and Al to wear a shirt which they wore 55 years ago as Beach Boys,  but which is now being marketed as a tribute to only Mike Love, and which has photos of only Mike and not his bandmates sewn into the lining?

Sure. Bad back or not, that's absurd.

If someone had Beach Boys tribute Pendelton board shirts for all to wear, that would be different.

[Toursiveu]

This board is funny. Talking about striped shirts for 12 pages.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about their shirts. I'm just glad that Bruce is wearing long pants.

[CenturyDeprived]

So as nobody as mentioned it, I will. Mike turns up with a shirt for Brian and Al. Just how hard is it for a 76 year old in a wheelchair to change after undergoing major back surgery? Legit question.

Let's say this was the case. In an ideal situation, Mike, after realizing that perhaps it's hard for Brian to change into a different shirt, could perhaps think to himself that maybe he (Mike) himself could just then and there put the kabosh to *any* of the members wearing those iconic shirts, so as to avoid any of them being the odd man/men out, and avoid the divided optics. It's not that hard!

Those striped shirts are ICONIC. It was a BIG DEAL when the band stopped wearing them. It said something then and it says something now. The band in 1967 clung to wearing them past when they should have, and in hindsight, I'm sure that they knew the idea of The Beach Boys wearing striped shirts wasn't inconsequential. If it were inconsequential, why didn't the band ever intentionally go out onstage with some wearing them, but not others?

I'm sure Shirtgate 2018 wasn't some "evil scheme", but it should have been obvious to whoever the person(s) with the idea to have the shirts worn, that it's an all or nothing situation, with either all of them wearing them, or none of them. It's not rocket science to have decent taste for (at minimum) the purposes of optics and perception.  I don't in any way think it's the end of the world, and it doesn't make Mike "evil", but I also don't see how people can think it was a solid, perfectly smart and sane decision.

I'll also put this out there: let's say Carl was still alive, and this same reunion happened. I just can't see half the band wearing striped shirts, and half not. I think Carl of all people would have stepped up to point out it's just a bit "weird" and erodes the "togetherness" perception of a band reunion for something of such an iconic nature to be done in a divided way like that.

Anyone agree?

Let's hope that if there are any other reunion activities, that Shirtgate 2018 doesn't happen again.  I'm all for the band bringing back past eras (especially if they would all grow out full 1970s beards again), but for them, the striped shirts are so iconic as to be almost sacred; let it be an everybody or nobody wear them situation.

[CenturyDeprived]

Side note: I know that at various times during the band's existence, there were rogue members who had unique fashion choices which differed very much from the other members onstage:

-In the 1980s, Carl wearing a snazzy suit, while the other members wore embarrassing shorts
-In the late 1960s, Mike dressed in guru robes, while nobody else wore anything of the sort
-Probably a bunch of other incidents I'm forgetting.

But in this instance, at the 1st Beach Boy-related reunion since Brian having publicly stated his sadness at his ability to "be a Beach Boy again" having been taken away... it just seems unnecessarily foolish to do anything that could remotely be construed as visually divisive.... where the guy who "kept the band name" goes out of his way to appear more "Beach Boy-like" than the guy who publicly expressed sorrow for feeling like he'd been fired at the hands of the guy who's wearing the shirt.

Anyway, it's all just weird but par for the course I suppose. I can never quite understand what these guys do, especially Mike.

Frankly I find it a little weird that some others here don't also find it a little weird... although I get if people don't want to think of the weirdness and just focus on the goodness of them being together, and that's ok, I can respect that too.

[guitarfool2002]

The question is why is Mike branding shirts as his own and taking ownership over something that was an iconic Beach Boys stage shirt? If such a shirt were to be done as a Beach Boys tribute, that would be different.

I wonder if Al Jardine had branded the same shirt, and had images of himself sewn into the shirt showing him as a Beach Boy, would there be legal action taken against him.

Anyway, it looked silly at the appearance. And major music press and reporters picked up on the visual of division no matter how inconsequential some suggest it is.

[acedecade75]

This board is funny. Talking about striped shirts for 12 pages.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about their shirts. I'm just glad that Bruce is wearing long pants.

 You nailed it!

[guitarfool2002]

In all honesty,  yes fans are happy to see this. But how many variations of "I'm thrilled to see this" are people expected to say? They did the appearance,  we will hear it August 10th. Nothing earth shattering was revealed yet in reports of the discussions. But we got 2 major music publications mentioning the shirts.

So that's what is being discussed by those who want to discuss it.

[DonnyL]

I think the shirt thing is kinda weird, but is being blown out of proportion.

For all we know, Mike and Bruce showed up wearing the shirts, and also brought them as gifts (maybe he even brought other gifts too, who knows), and David decided to put his on?

Or maybe Mike wanted the group to wear them, Brian said he didn't feel like changing his shirt, and Al went along w/ Brian?

Yeh kinda weird that Mike Love brought along "Mike Love" shirts ... but on the other hand, they are striped shirts and the Mike Love element is kinda hidden.

I also don't get how the shirts are showing the "divide" when David is wearing one, but he's not in Mike's group. In fact, didn't he last tour w/ Brian & Al?

The biggest issue I have is likely the same one Murry would have: PLEASE TUCK IN YOUR SHIRTS, GUYS !!!

[Marty Castillo]

I think the shirt thing is kinda weird, but is being blown out of proportion.

For all we know, Mike and Bruce showed up wearing the shirts, and also brought them as gifts (maybe he even brought other gifts too, who knows), and David decided to put his on?

Or maybe Mike wanted the group to wear them, Brian said he didn't feel like changing his shirt, and Al went along w/ Brian?

Yeh kinda weird that Mike Love brought along "Mike Love" shirts ... but on the other hand, they are striped shirts and the Mike Love element is kinda hidden.

I also don't get how the shirts are showing the "divide" when David is wearing one, but he's not in Mike's group. In fact, didn't he last tour w/ Brian & Al?

The biggest issue I have is likely the same one Murry would have: PLEASE TUCK IN YOUR SHIRTS, GUYS !!!

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Donny, slow your roll. You're making entirely too much sense.

[guitarfool2002]

I think the shirt thing is kinda weird, but is being blown out of proportion.

For all we know, Mike and Bruce showed up wearing the shirts, and also brought them as gifts (maybe he even brought other gifts too, who knows), and David decided to put his on?

Or maybe Mike wanted the group to wear them, Brian said he didn't feel like changing his shirt, and Al went along w/ Brian?

Yeh kinda weird that Mike Love brought along "Mike Love" shirts ... but on the other hand, they are striped shirts and the Mike Love element is kinda hidden.

I also don't get how the shirts are showing the "divide" when David is wearing one, but he's not in Mike's group. In fact, didn't he last tour w/ Brian & Al?

The biggest issue I have is likely the same one Murry would have: PLEASE TUCK IN YOUR SHIRTS, GUYS !!!

1 - With the Beach Boys involved, what isn't blown out of proportion? 

2 - Bring gifts to a 1-hour satellite radio press event? That's odd. But if so, care to guess what other items Mike brought?

3 - Mike wanted Brian and Al to wear shirts looking like what they wore 55 years ago, yet with Mike's image all over these and labeled a "tribute" to Mike with no photos of other Beach Boys, and BB's song titles sewn into every stripe on the shirt...songs that Al sang or Brian wrote/produced/sang...oh wait, I covered that one already. 

4 - Weird indeed. But again, this is Mike and the Beach Boys. And the songs are stitched into every inch of the stripes, so it's not hidden, and the cuffs have Mike's photo, and...Well, you get the idea and I agree, it was weird.

5 - I believe David has played as a guest at Mike's shows well after he did his last show with Brian and Al.

5A - The "divide" was picked up by the writers at Rolling Stone and Billboard who mentioned it regarding the shirts in their coverage of the event. They noticed it with no skin in the game.

6 - Exactly! And "SING FROM YOUR HEART".

[CenturyDeprived]

I think the shirt thing is kinda weird, but is being blown out of proportion.

For all we know, Mike and Bruce showed up wearing the shirts, and also brought them as gifts (maybe he even brought other gifts too, who knows), and David decided to put his on?

Or maybe Mike wanted the group to wear them, Brian said he didn't feel like changing his shirt, and Al went along w/ Brian?

Yeh kinda weird that Mike Love brought along "Mike Love" shirts ... but on the other hand, they are striped shirts and the Mike Love element is kinda hidden.

I also don't get how the shirts are showing the "divide" when David is wearing one, but he's not in Mike's group. In fact, didn't he last tour w/ Brian & Al?

The biggest issue I have is likely the same one Murry would have: PLEASE TUCK IN YOUR SHIRTS, GUYS !!!

Yes, perhaps Mike wanted the whole group to wear them, but I don't see how it'd been a big deal for him to just scrap the idea of *anyone* wearing them if two of the guys didn't want to.
Again, would only 3 out of 5 Beach Boys gone out on stage regularly in the '60s wearing striped shirts? That just wasn't done, and for good reason. Because it would look silly, don't you think? Why do you think a fashion split like this wasn't done back then?

Whether the "divide" was intended to be emphasized/implied or not at this reunion event is sort of besides the point. This is a *famously* divided group, one of THE most famously divided. Brian went out of his way to publicly state in the LA Times how hurt he was to be edged out of the touring group. It's a well-known thing (BBs group divide) and simple measures should have been done to avoid recalling it to people. Why do something like this which (even inadvertently) could potentially visually imply that divide? You do this with any group that has a very iconic version of their look, be it KISS, Beatles (Ed Sullivan suit era), etc, and split their looks in two between the members, and it's gonna be just as weird.

Not the end of the world, just a bit of a boneheaded move.

I hope they make more music, and more importantly find peace between each other as human beings.

[Pretty Funky]

So as nobody as mentioned it, I will. Mike turns up with a shirt for Brian and Al. Just how hard is it for a 76 year old in a wheelchair to change after undergoing major back surgery? Legit question.

You would expect Brian and Al to wear a shirt which they wore 55 years ago as Beach Boys,  but which is now being marketed as a tribute to only Mike Love, and which has photos of only Mike and not his bandmates sewn into the lining?

Sure. Bad back or not, that's absurd.

If someone had Beach Boys tribute Pendelton board shirts for all to wear, that would be different.

I’d expect nothing. I asked it as someone 20 years younger without back issues. Please don’t imply I am taking one side over another.

[Shady]

Mike's 'never say never' comment in the Rolling Stone article gives me hope

[B.E.]

Mike's 'never say never' comment in the Rolling Stone article gives me hope

Obviously, it's far easier to get back together for a one-off interview than it is to record or tour, but if things were so acrimonious, why bother? The Sirius channel is two-thirds complete - voice overs had been provided. The album is two months old - permission had been granted. This, understandably, led some fans to wonder what the bigger reason was for the reunion. My point is, oddly enough, that should give fans hope. They could have easily said 'No', but they didn't. In a way, it kind of feels like they just got back together for the heck of it. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised next time they surprise us?

[Rocker]

Mike's 'never say never' comment in the Rolling Stone article gives me hope

That's Mike's standard answer to questions about a reunion. He said it in 2006 (and we know that there actually was a reunion six years later) and I think he also said the same after he basically ended the 2012 thing. I'm not saying it won't happen or that he is lying. Just wanted to put it into perspective as the standard answer it is.



So, did anybody attend the meeting? Jon Stebbins? Any comments on how it was? I loved Jon's description of the 2006 meeting

[LostArt]

Mike brought shirts for Brian and Al, but when they told him they didn't have the $250 apiece that Mike was asking for them, he took them back. 

[Amy B.]

A friend who is not a huge BB fan texted me the photo, knowing I'm a fan. She wrote, "This photo is hilarious. What's with the shirts?" So...yeah. That's what she noticed. Nothing about the significance of the reunion. The shirt thing is not a huge deal, but it's just another one of those weird missteps this band tends to make that contribute to people thinking the band doesn't understand PR.

(Of course, she's also aware of the Beach Boys' dysfunction, having seen them live in the 70s. She said Brian was mumbling onstage and making no sense, and one of the others had to stop him by starting a new song. That's her main memory, along side great music.)

[HeyJude]

I think the "overreaction to the perceived reaction" is causing things to get kind of skewed. Bringing up and discussing the shirts thing doesn't mean one is obsessed with it or that they think it's a huge blight on the band's history.

But, I think the most ridiculous attitude is throwing one's hands up in the air and saying "I don't see *anything* worth noting about those shirts *whatsoever*." These are probably the same people who thought Jeff Foskett jumping from Brian's to Mike's band in 2014 had *no* political implications.

In both cases, one can argue whether there were any divisive group politics involved in the actual events/decisions. What can't be argued against, in my opinion, is that if you're familiar with the band's history, these events have the APPEARANCE (even *I'm* tired of over-using the word "optics") of being charged/motivated/informed by group politics.

Foskett jumping to Mike's band? Absolute F-you to Melinda and Brian.

The two well-known and divided factions of Beach Boys showing up in the most visually loud different dress possible outside of Brian wearing a "Smile" shirt and Mike wearing a "Kokomo" shirt? Absolutely comes across as an awkward (or ironic, or embarrassing) visual to accompany the event.

That's all not even getting into whether they look like tools wearing such shirts (regardless of who designed them); I'm no fashion expert. I think once there are multiple members all wearing the same shirt, it certainly seems pretty dorky. I mean, even in the 80s and 90s they all wore *different* Hawaiian shirts, etc.

And that's also all separate from the shirts being Mike's brand. To me, the main potential issue on that count has more to do with the subtext of the event. Mike wasn't trying to "sell his shirts." It's more just an ironic aside that, much like wearing "Beach Boys" and "Mike Love" hats, Mike often seems to like branding himself with, um, himself. If it also turns out Brian and Al turned down the shirts, that would be an additional irony.

I mean, with all the "what about/what ifs", how about this one? Would Mike have worn a Brian Wilson-branded shirt with pics of Brian and Melinda in a warm embrace sewn into the lining?

The band is certainly at a weird place at this late stage in their career. Things are kind of simultaneously more strained/estranged and less so compared to, say, 10 or 15 years ago. There aren't any lawsuits, and they are making appearances together. That shows some level of or ability to put negative stuff aside. But they are also even *more firmly* entrenched into their "side" (apart from Dave, who is kind of a free floater though more often than not skewing towards Mike just in terms of appearing with him), with clearly less desire (at least on the part of Mike) to do any part of his job by committee or at the behest or decisions of anybody else. Also, while no lawsuits have flown between members post-C50, Mike's interviews and comments about Brian (and the Wilson brothers, and sometimes even Al) have become *more* inflammatory and potentially offensive and judgmental.

So, the group meeting is a cool thing to see and certainly isn't a *bad* sign; but I wouldn't assume anything more or anything more harmonious is in the immediate offing. I'm always open to being pleasantly surprised.