Brian Wilson - 2017 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds - The Final Performances)

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh come on, okay right the band totally planned and prepared an only 70something dates comeback reunion tour and leave it there, wouldn't never think of making a bigger profit of a such unique and massive successfull opportunity that with that came with a hit album, yeah sure everyone all agreed to that! Brians followup ideas? his rock'n'roll album? woop, that was a mistake! Mike Loves constant bitching whining and shades thrown (still to this fraking day in his book!) at Brians camp afterwards regarding the album sessions and the tour experience?? oh, totally unrelated! surely all of this is coincidental and the band ended it where they originally aimed to end, like there's totally no bad blood anywhere - at all

 

[HeyJude]

At least in five years, nobody will be complaining about the PS50 Tour being cut short.

 

One of the interesting things is that some folks, sometimes (not always) in defending Mike in the aftermath of C50, pointed to the idea that Brian would not be able to regularly do 75 dates per year, let alone more, as further indication as to why additional reunion activity wasn't plausible.

Yet, in 2016 he did *more* shows than he did on C50, and did more heavy lifting on those shows than he did on C50. He did around 100 shows last year as I recall.

[RubberSoul13]

At least in five years, nobody will be complaining about the PS50 Tour being cut short.

 

One of the interesting things is that some folks, sometimes (not always) in defending Mike in the aftermath of C50, pointed to the idea that Brian would not be able to regularly do 75 dates per year, let alone more, as further indication as to why additional reunion activity wasn't plausible.

Yet, in 2016 he did *more* shows than he did on C50, and did more heavy lifting on those shows than he did on C50. He did around 100 shows last year as I recall.

I think there is still truth to the initial statement if one detail is emphasized...I don't think Brian would be able to regularly do 75+ dates a year under Mike Love's terms regularly.

[barsone]

Bingo  +10

[Ziggy Stardust]

And oh wow what a shocker: Mike and his girlfriend Bruce aren't playing any songs at all from TWGMTR, jeez louis how i wonder why

(but suure have some space for that Pisces Brothers! cause that's totally a Beach Boys song, and a well loved one!)

[KDS]

At least in five years, nobody will be complaining about the PS50 Tour being cut short.

 

One of the interesting things is that some folks, sometimes (not always) in defending Mike in the aftermath of C50, pointed to the idea that Brian would not be able to regularly do 75 dates per year, let alone more, as further indication as to why additional reunion activity wasn't plausible.

Yet, in 2016 he did *more* shows than he did on C50, and did more heavy lifting on those shows than he did on C50. He did around 100 shows last year as I recall.

I think there is still truth to the initial statement if one detail is emphasized...I don't think Brian would be able to regularly do 75+ dates a year under Mike Love's terms regularly.

I also think that, had the reunion continued, they would've had to scale back on the amount of musicians.  There's a lot of overhead when you're basically touring with two full bands.  And, I think eventually, they would've had to start playing smaller venues once the novelty of the reunion wore off. 

[HeyJude]

I think there is still truth to the initial statement if one detail is emphasized...I don't think Brian would be able to regularly do 75+ dates a year under Mike Love's terms regularly.

I don't think at least some of the folks back in 2012 who were advocating the "Brian doesn't have the stamina" angle really specified under what terms it would happen.

It would of course depend on what Mike's terms are. But if we're talking about Brian balking at just joining Mike's band (a legit reason to balk I would say), then that's really not a stamina issue and would be a case of choosing not to do something for artistic reasons.

Any BB tour with any group of musicians would require *less* activity and heavy lifting from Brian compared to his solo shows.

I guess we can get into the nuts and bolts of levels of comfort like travel accommodations, where Mike by his own admission does things on the cheap. But I don't think it's even 1% legit to knock Brian if a theoretical "under Mike's terms" tour dictated taking away amenities that Brian might need due to infirmities like back problems, etc.

[HeyJude]

At least in five years, nobody will be complaining about the PS50 Tour being cut short.

 

One of the interesting things is that some folks, sometimes (not always) in defending Mike in the aftermath of C50, pointed to the idea that Brian would not be able to regularly do 75 dates per year, let alone more, as further indication as to why additional reunion activity wasn't plausible.

Yet, in 2016 he did *more* shows than he did on C50, and did more heavy lifting on those shows than he did on C50. He did around 100 shows last year as I recall.

I think there is still truth to the initial statement if one detail is emphasized...I don't think Brian would be able to regularly do 75+ dates a year under Mike Love's terms regularly.

I also think that, had the reunion continued, they would've had to scale back on the amount of musicians.  There's a lot of overhead when you're basically touring with two full bands.  And, I think eventually, they would've had to start playing smaller venues once the novelty of the reunion wore off. 

The C50 lineup would have continued to be hugely lucrative (I still question Mike's characterization of the tour losing money in his book, but even in his book he says the tour turned a profit by the time it hit Europe, not perhaps coincidentally right before the thing ended), and there were a myriad of options they could have played out to capitalize on it.

One, as Howie Edelson suggested several times, was a Vegas residency. There are Vegas residencies with *larger* on stage contingents of musicians (and dancers, etc.) than the C50 band that are amazingly lucrative.

Would the "reunion" eventually have lost novelty to the point of needing to book smaller venues? Perhaps, though good management could have mitigated this. But let's remember that those who wanted to see "more reunion shows" weren't necessarily calling for it to go on forever. Indications are that, prior to the band biffing the end of tour announcement with oodles of bad PR, interest in more shows was actually *increasing* to the point of getting offers for *larger* venues including indoor arenas and even outdoor stadiums.

Things were trending UP as the tour went on (not internally, but in terms of PR and critical approval and fan appreciation and money coming in), so I think we were quite a ways off from needing to address having to wind down the tour in any way in terms of musicians, etc.

I don't buy that the contingent of musicians on C50 lost the tour money. Of course a smaller band means less overhead. But Brian continues to tour with a similar-sized band (certainly much larger than Mike's), playing smaller venues than a lot of the C50 shows, yet they're able to make that work financially.

[KDS]

At least in five years, nobody will be complaining about the PS50 Tour being cut short.

 

One of the interesting things is that some folks, sometimes (not always) in defending Mike in the aftermath of C50, pointed to the idea that Brian would not be able to regularly do 75 dates per year, let alone more, as further indication as to why additional reunion activity wasn't plausible.

Yet, in 2016 he did *more* shows than he did on C50, and did more heavy lifting on those shows than he did on C50. He did around 100 shows last year as I recall.

I think there is still truth to the initial statement if one detail is emphasized...I don't think Brian would be able to regularly do 75+ dates a year under Mike Love's terms regularly.

I also think that, had the reunion continued, they would've had to scale back on the amount of musicians.  There's a lot of overhead when you're basically touring with two full bands.  And, I think eventually, they would've had to start playing smaller venues once the novelty of the reunion wore off. 

The C50 lineup would have continued to be hugely lucrative (I still question Mike's characterization of the tour losing money in his book, but even in his book he says the tour turned a profit by the time it hit Europe, not perhaps coincidentally right before the thing ended), and there were a myriad of options they could have played out to capitalize on it.

One, as Howie Edelson suggested several times, was a Vegas residency. There are Vegas residencies with *larger* on stage contingents of musicians (and dancers, etc.) than the C50 band that are amazingly lucrative.

Would the "reunion" eventually have lost novelty to the point of needing to book smaller venues? Perhaps, though good management could have mitigated this. But let's remember that those who wanted to see "more reunion shows" weren't necessarily calling for it to go on forever. Indications are that, prior to the band biffing the end of tour announcement with oodles of bad PR, interest in more shows was actually *increasing* to the point of getting offers for *larger* venues including indoor arenas and even outdoor stadiums.

Things were trending UP as the tour went on (not internally, but in terms of PR and critical approval and fan appreciation and money coming in), so I think we were quite a ways off from needing to address having to wind down the tour in any way in terms of musicians, etc.

I don't buy that the contingent of musicians on C50 lost the tour money. Of course a smaller band means less overhead. But Brian continues to tour with a similar-sized band (certainly much larger than Mike's), playing smaller venues than a lot of the C50 shows, yet they're able to make that work financially.

Just about any reunion loses steam after awhile.  Most artists then chose to either scale back on the number of tours (ie. Kiss), take a long hiatus (ie. Black Sabbath), or start doing package tours (ie. Styx). 

Just an opinion, but I think after awhile The Beach Boys would've had to do one of the options, must likely less touring, maybe an every other, or every third year type of thing. 

You also mentioned two words that are absent in the Beach Boys universe - good management.  That would cure a lot of ills. 

And, let's also talk about, not just touring, but what about the follow-up to TWGMTR.  It's rumored that many of the tracks that appeared on NPP were to be on that BB album that never was.  Does that mean that a studio version of Pisces Brother could've been sitting between The Right Time and Sail Away?  Unless its replacing Runaway Dancer, that surely would've weakened the album IMO. 

[RubberSoul13]

The Beach Boys have never had a handle on when less can be more...as in, less shows at certain times can bring in more dough in the long run. The 50th ann. reunion was no exception.

[HeyJude]

Just about any reunion loses steam after awhile.  Most artists then chose to either scale back on the number of tours (ie. Kiss), take a long hiatus (ie. Black Sabbath), or start doing package tours (ie. Styx). 

Just an opinion, but I think after awhile The Beach Boys would've had to do one of the options, must likely less touring, maybe an every other, or every third year type of thing. 

You also mentioned two words that are absent in the Beach Boys universe - good management.  That would cure a lot of ills. 

And, let's also talk about, not just touring, but what about the follow-up to TWGMTR.  It's rumored that many of the tracks that appeared on NPP were to be on that BB album that never was.  Does that mean that a studio version of Pisces Brother could've been sitting between The Right Time and Sail Away?  Unless its replacing Runaway Dancer, that surely would've weakened the album IMO. 

It think one of the things that has happened, and perhaps this comes in part from newer fans that got into the band (or got into the hardcore) after 1997/98, is that some treat or characterize the "reunion" as the anomaly. And from a statistical standpoint in terms of who has been up there on stage over all these 50+ years, that certainly is true.

But marketing a "reunion" tour is being treated by some the same as, say, Brian marketing a "Pet Sounds" tour, as if it's *not* something that is less about doing a one-shot weird thing, and more about *getting the band back to what it should be.*

I wouldn't have even said this before the tour, because I think most of us thought one possibility was that it would be kind of a middling tour where it was more about the novelty of just seeing them together and less about being an *active, high profile, kick-ass* musical unit. But the tour (and to some degree the album) changed all of that. It was the embodiment of the "whole is greater than the sum..." cliché. I think Brian and Al recognized that. I think Mike was too blinded by his hang-ups to fully feel the same.

But from the fan perspective (not the logistical/band politics perspective), I would treat the reunion as getting the thing back to what it should be, where it's at its best, and then work from there. Keeping the band together should be more important than Mike "playing vital small markets" and all of that.

Considering the reunion WAS hugely successful and didn't bomb in any way, the reunion *should have* been a vital and key shift from that point on with the band. As Howie Edelson put it, the band went from Frankie Valli to Mick Jagger, a HUGE, fundamental shift in their rep in every corner of the music industry, and Mike didn't care and the whole thing fell apart due to Mike and bad management.

It's also quite possible that the other members (meaning mainly Mike) could have still kept their side stuff going for plenty of private and corporate gigs and "off season" shows, etc.

As for any future BB album, I think the indications seem to suggest it would have been something of a "TWGMTR 2", with plent of Brian-Joe songs (including stuff cut during the TWGMTR sessions) with some additions from Mike. I'm all about getting the stuff out there, so I would have been more than happy to see another album happen by allowing Mike to fly in some of his own stuff like "Pisces Brothers."

[HeyJude]

The Beach Boys have never had a handle on when less can be more...as in, less shows at certain times can bring in more dough in the long run. The 50th ann. reunion was no exception.

I think the last time anybody even attempted to advocate for doing *less* touring was probably Carl back in the late 70s or early 80s. He supposedly had the (correct, in my opinion) idea that if they had toured less often, perhaps every other year, then they wouldn't oversaturate the market and would be able to play bigger shows.

Yes, I think we'd all love to be up close right against the stage to see the Beach Boys play at the Castroville Artichoke Festival, but for the sake of the success and profile of the band, playing Madison Square Garden and whatnot would have been better.

I don't think they overextended themselves in 2012, though. That was a light tour both compared to what Mike normally does, and also compared to what the reunion could have brought in. They *barely* touched on markets outside of the US, doing only 23 dates across all of Asia, Australia/New Zealand, and Europe. Two shows in the UK? Any Brian or Mike tour usually spends at least several weeks in the UK. They should have been doing another 50 shows across those markets, and then swung back around in 2013 to hit markets in the US they hadn't already hit, do second shows in markets that could handle it, and then swung around to international markets they've never touched before like China and Russia.

[KDS]

The Beach Boys have never had a handle on when less can be more...as in, less shows at certain times can bring in more dough in the long run. The 50th ann. reunion was no exception.

This is true.  

[Ziggy Stardust]

To get back on topic, i'm crossing fingers for Brian to bring Funky Pretty in the set, now would be the time or never to pull that one off with Al and Blondie joining forces!

[HeyJude]

To get back on topic, i'm crossing fingers for Brian to bring Funky Pretty in the set, now would be the time or never to pull that one off with Al and Blondie joining forces!

They were doing "Funky Pretty" for a while last year, and then it inexplicably was dropped in favor of bringing back "Sail Away." The trend across 2016 was to drop some of the rarities for some reason.

With each new tour though, usually something new springs up. I would only hope the first 2017 setlist isn't identical to the last 2016 setlist.

[KDS]

To get back on topic, i'm crossing fingers for Brian to bring Funky Pretty in the set, now would be the time or never to pull that one off with Al and Blondie joining forces!

They were doing "Funky Pretty" for a while last year, and then it inexplicably was dropped in favor of bringing back "Sail Away." The trend across 2016 was to drop some of the rarities for some reason.

With each new tour though, usually something new springs up. I would only hope the first 2017 setlist isn't identical to the last 2016 setlist.

I know I'm likely in the minority on this board, but I was glad to see my favorite NPP song replace my least favorite Holland song on the setlist.  Frankly, I didn't think the version of Funky Pretty the band did in Baltimore last August was that great. 

[Ziggy Stardust]

To get back on topic, i'm crossing fingers for Brian to bring Funky Pretty in the set, now would be the time or never to pull that one off with Al and Blondie joining forces!

They were doing "Funky Pretty" for a while last year, and then it inexplicably was dropped in favor of bringing back "Sail Away." The trend across 2016 was to drop some of the rarities for some reason.

With each new tour though, usually something new springs up. I would only hope the first 2017 setlist isn't identical to the last 2016 setlist.

I've being so out of loop, it's just ridiculous and embarassing! i need to check on that

That is not very reassuring, i'd be ultra bummed out if they drop Wake The World to bring back Isn't It Time

I'm really sad Brians camp is still isn't pushing Love You, that album has a real underestimated cult, not just fanbase, but among celebrities, bands and artists such as Big Star, BMX Bandits, Patti Smith, Explorers Club praised it, etc etc

[HeyJude]

To get back on topic, i'm crossing fingers for Brian to bring Funky Pretty in the set, now would be the time or never to pull that one off with Al and Blondie joining forces!

They were doing "Funky Pretty" for a while last year, and then it inexplicably was dropped in favor of bringing back "Sail Away." The trend across 2016 was to drop some of the rarities for some reason.

With each new tour though, usually something new springs up. I would only hope the first 2017 setlist isn't identical to the last 2016 setlist.

I've being so out of loop, it's just ridiculous and embarassing! i need to check on that

That is not very reassuring, i'd be ultra bummed out if they drop Wake The World to bring back Isn't It Time

I'm really sad Brians camp is still isn't pushing Love You, that album has a real underestimated cult, not just fanbase, but among celebrities, bands and artists such as Big Star, BMX Bandits, Patti Smith, Explorers Club praised it, etc etc

Brian has never done "Isn't It Time" solo, so I don't think that one is very likely. "Wake the World" seems to be to the liking of both Brian and Al, and it allows Al another lead (though I saw its first performance on tour in 2015 and Brian sang the lead), so I'd say the chances are pretty good of seeing "Wake the World" stay in the setlist.

[RubberSoul13]

To get back on topic, i'm crossing fingers for Brian to bring Funky Pretty in the set, now would be the time or never to pull that one off with Al and Blondie joining forces!

They were doing "Funky Pretty" for a while last year, and then it inexplicably was dropped in favor of bringing back "Sail Away." The trend across 2016 was to drop some of the rarities for some reason.

With each new tour though, usually something new springs up. I would only hope the first 2017 setlist isn't identical to the last 2016 setlist.

I know I'm likely in the minority on this board, but I was glad to see my favorite NPP song replace my least favorite Holland song on the setlist.  Frankly, I didn't think the version of Funky Pretty the band did in Baltimore last August was that great. 

I've never cared for Sail Away...I just think it is incredibly uncreative. It's "Sloop John B" re-arranged...I know, Brian is incredibly guilty of it...but still. As for "Funky Pretty", I welcomed it as a rarity...but it was far from a highlight.

[KDS]

To get back on topic, i'm crossing fingers for Brian to bring Funky Pretty in the set, now would be the time or never to pull that one off with Al and Blondie joining forces!

They were doing "Funky Pretty" for a while last year, and then it inexplicably was dropped in favor of bringing back "Sail Away." The trend across 2016 was to drop some of the rarities for some reason.

With each new tour though, usually something new springs up. I would only hope the first 2017 setlist isn't identical to the last 2016 setlist.

I know I'm likely in the minority on this board, but I was glad to see my favorite NPP song replace my least favorite Holland song on the setlist.  Frankly, I didn't think the version of Funky Pretty the band did in Baltimore last August was that great. 

I've never cared for Sail Away...I just think it is incredibly uncreative. It's "Sloop John B" re-arranged...I know, Brian is incredibly guilty of it...but still. As for "Funky Pretty", I welcomed it as a rarity...but it was far from a highlight.

If they were going to tackle a CATP/Holland era rarity with Blondie, I'd rather hear Hold On Dear Brother (which was played on the Soundstage show and not since) or Leaving This Town. 

[HeyJude]

"Funky Pretty" isn't among my favorites, though it's a cool enough song. The reason I thought it was a good addition to the setlist was simply to see something NEW in it.

"Sail Away" is easily the best song on NPP in my opinion, but it was a bit of a bummer to see it replace "Funky Pretty" not only because it took away a rarer, more interesting deep cut, but because most performances I've seen and heard of "Sail Away" from 2015 and 2016 have been among the most ragged, veering-off-the-rails performances in Brian's show. It reminds me a bit of the title track TWGMTR from the C50 tour. Neither song is anywhere near the most complex in their respective setlists, but for some reason when performed they just sound a bit of a mess for some reason.

[HeyJude]

If they were going to tackle a CATP/Holland era rarity with Blondie, I'd rather hear Hold On Dear Brother (which was played on the Soundstage show and not since) or Leaving This Town. 

I'd like to hear either of those. "Leaving this Town" was rehearsed for the 2016 tour and even appeared on the opening night setlist (listed as an either/or pick between it and "Funky Pretty" as I recall), but it never appeared in an actual show. Similarly, "Lookin' at Tomorrow" was rehearsed for the 2014 Vegas PBS show but not performed.

"Hold on Dear Brother" was great on the PBS show, one of the highlights, but I don't think Blondie could sing it in that key. They'd have to give the song to Matt to sing, or lower the key *quite a bit*.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I agree tho, it's a shame Blondie doesn't get some of his Holland/So Tough songs to play, and why isn't Ricky Fataar there? he was there on the Soundstage show! that looked so cool i guess it's another check to pay that is adding to an already long list of musicians and names, i'd see he would fit for a drummer tho, even for the C50 since he you know, wrote end played on classic Beach Boys records

I love Funky Pretty, such a classic typical Brian type song!

But yeah Sail Away is def some lazy Sloop John B, not sure if Brian is fully responsible for it, since you know how it gets hijacked (Joe Thomas) and especially this album with all the outside people involved, altho we do hear his TWGMTR leftovers that do sound like him (Beautiful Day, etc) i do am a sucker for the chorus tho, really works

I've being so out of loop, it's just ridiculous and embarassing! i need to check on that

That is not very reassuring, i'd be ultra bummed out if they drop Wake The World to bring back Isn't It Time

I'm really sad Brians camp is still isn't pushing Love You, that album has a real underestimated cult, not just fanbase, but among celebrities, bands and artists such as Big Star, BMX Bandits, Patti Smith, Explorers Club praised it, etc etc

Brian has never done "Isn't It Time" solo, so I don't think that one is very likely. "Wake the World" seems to be to the liking of both Brian and Al, and it allows Al another lead (though I saw its first performance on tour in 2015 and Brian sang the lead), so I'd say the chances are pretty good of seeing "Wake the World" stay in the setlist.

Ah yeah true, i don't know i was just thinking out top of my head any other song that wouldn't be very welcome to replace Wake The World you feel me?

Good to know for WTW then

[KDS]

If they were going to tackle a CATP/Holland era rarity with Blondie, I'd rather hear Hold On Dear Brother (which was played on the Soundstage show and not since) or Leaving This Town. 

I'd like to hear either of those. "Leaving this Town" was rehearsed for the 2016 tour and even appeared on the opening night setlist (listed as an either/or pick between it and "Funky Pretty" as I recall), but it never appeared in an actual show. Similarly, "Lookin' at Tomorrow" was rehearsed for the 2014 Vegas PBS show but not performed.

"Hold on Dear Brother" was great on the PBS show, one of the highlights, but I don't think Blondie could sing it in that key. They'd have to give the song to Matt to sing, or lower the key *quite a bit*.

I wish they'd have included Hold on Dear Brother on the CD companion to the PBS show.  It might be my favorite song from that concert.

I didn't know that Leaving This Town was rehearsed.  I guess Funky Pretty was picked since it's more upbeat.  Frankly, I never understood why people make such a big deal about Funky Pretty.  

[HeyJude]

I wish they'd have included Hold on Dear Brother on the CD companion to the PBS show.  It might be my favorite song from that concert.

I didn't know that Leaving This Town was rehearsed.  I guess Funky Pretty was picked since it's more upbeat.  Frankly, I never understood why people make such a big deal about Funky Pretty.  

"Funky Pretty" is just different and an interesting mid-period piece, and a cool lead vocal trade-off. And it's one from a pretty small list of Blondie-related BB songs to work from. I'd say the live versions of the song from 1973 and 74 sounded better than the studio version.

While most anything other than SOS from "Holland" is going to be a pretty "deep" cut, I'd say "Leaving this Town" might be slightly *more* obscure than "Funky Pretty", and if they already had an aversion to doing these sorts of songs in the current shows, "Leaving this Town" is slower *and* longer (though the ending could be trimmed if needed). So while I'd love to hear it, I'm not surprised it never made it into a show.