God Only Knows Instruments/Credits
c-man:
Quote from: TheWonderfulHarpsichord on September 25, 2016, 04:11:50 PM
Quote from: c-man on September 25, 2016, 03:19:59 PM
Based on my extensive examination of the session tape and AFM contract, and input from a few others on this board, here is the conclusion I have come to:
Tack piano (w/strings taped): Don Randi
Harpsichord: Larry Knechtel
12-string electric rhythm guitar: Carol Kaye
Fender bass (w/tic-tac effect): Ray Pohlman
Upright bass: Lyle Ritz
Sleighbells & Drums: Hal Blaine
Plastic orange juice cups w/sticks: Jim Gordon
Tambourine: Terry Melcher
Accordions: Carl Fortina and Frank Marocco
French horn: Alan Robinson
Alto flutes & Flutes: Bill Green and Jim Horn
Clarinet: Jay Migliori
Bass clarinet & Clarinet: Leonard Hartman
Violins: Sid Sharp (leader) and Leonard Malarsky
Viola: Darrel Terwilliger
Cello: Jesse Erlich
There were absolutely NO overdubs on this magnificent recording, other than the vocals - however, the tag was spliced in from a separate take.
Thanks for the information. It's pretty cool how Terry played tambourine on this, never knew that.
I have read in Mark Dillion's "Fifty Sides of The Beach Boys" that he speculates that the man called "Tony" could be Tony Asher playing tambourine. Is there any evidence to support this?
I'm guessing by what you said that the saxophones didn't make the final cut or are burred in the mix. Also regarding the clarinets/bass clarinet, do you know of any specific point in the song where they are audible? I can hear them in the sessions but not in the final version, unless it's them playing along side the flutes or french horn.
Also thanks for clearing up the no over-dubs part. I don't know where the "3 bass parts" speculation has come from.
I don't recall Tony's name being mentioned on this session...Mark Dillon writes that the sleighbells are credited on the contract to a "Tony", but that's definitely not the case: there no annotation of either "Tony" or "sleighbells" on the "GOK" AFM contract. However, on the first session for "Good Vibrations",it seems that the two guys referred to on the session tape as Tony and Terry are playing sleighbells and tambourine...perhaps that's what Mark was thinking of. The sleighbells on "GOK", however, were definitely played by Hal - there's even discussion between him and Brian about whether he had enough time to set them down and pick up his drumsticks for the snare fills in the bridge.
I don't think there were any saxophones on the session, other than the discarded overdubbed sax solo (most likely played by Bill Green, considering how much he was payed compared to the other woodwind players)...the credits in the original Pet Sounds box set list saxophones for most of the tunes, but those woodwinds players were adept at saxophones, clarinets, and flutes, and I think the sessionographer just wrote down "saxophones" without taking the time to listen and discern that they were actually clarinets (there's a disclaimer in one of the various sessionographies which even states as much). On "GOK', I believe they play in tandem with the flutes, but I think you can best pick them out in the tag.
Knowing that Carol Kaye, Ray Pohlman, and Lyle Ritz all played the session led me to originally assume these three played Fender bass, Dano bass, and upright bass, respectively. But as aeitzsche had pointed out in an earlier thread, a close listen reveals only Fender bass (with the "tic-tac" tape slap effect) and upright bass. Dialog on the session tape proves beyond any doubt that it's Ray playing the Fender, and of course Lyle is playing the upright. Assuming the three-bass scenario led me to originally conclude that Carl must be playing the guitar, but as I later pointed out on this board, and as you mentioned above, the jazzy guitar doodling between takes points to a studio pro rather than Carl, and according to someone on this board, Terry Melcher had gone on record as saying Carl did not play on the session. If Bruce was recalling that he did, perhaps he was thinking of a different session (do we have a source for that Bruce quote)?
And, there is no organ on "GOK", or on "WIBN", for that matter, despite what you see in some of the sessionographies.
One final note: all of the various Pet Sounds sessionographies included with the various CD releases of that album over the years come with a disclaimer that the information within may not be 100% accurate, but is reliable only based on the information available at the time. I will make the same disclaimer in regards to my work! As new info surfaces, the sessionographies require updates...check out www.beachboysarchives.com, where this is gradually happening.
c-man:
Quote from: aeijtzsche on September 25, 2016, 05:26:55 PM
There is the bizarre question of why the string bass was split in some fashion and given its own track in addition to being audible on the same track as the general rhythm instruments. That's another one I'm just tired of not having an answer for.
The original "GOK" 4-track tape has horns, violins, and accordions on one track - drums, harpsichord, piano, guitar, and percussion on another - and bass by itself on a third (actually the second) track. The fourth track contains a mono mix of the other three tracks, as is sometimes the case with BW-produced 4-tracks of this era.
If they baffled off the upright bass and recorded it with a super-directional mic, that might account for no leakage from the other instruments...but if it was baffled, would it have still picked up on the mics of the other instruments? Maybe the baffle and directional mic combined were sufficient for keeping out the sounds of the other instruments, but the baffle wasn't enough to keep the low frequencies of the upright from leaking out into the microphones of the other instruments? The only other thing that would make sense would be if Brian had Lyle redo the upright as an overdub on its own track, which would still leave the original upright sound there as leakage onto the other tracks (a similar thing happened with the drums on the 1963 track "The Rocking Surfer" - Dennis' original drumming was replaced, yet it's still there as leakage on the remaining original tracks, along with Mike's saxophone). The only problem with that "GOK" bass theory would be that there would have had to be enough time left on the clock from the original 3.75 hour session (the standard three hours plus 45 minutes of overtime) after the other musicians were dismissed, otherwise we'd expect to see a higher pay rate for Lyle (outside of officially-designated AFM session "leader" Hal Blaine and contractor Jay Migliori, the only players on the "GOK" session payed a higher rate than the others were Leonard Hartman, Bill Green, and Jim Horn - and each of their names is accompanied by a notation that they played a "double" - and in Bill Green's case, he was paid even more, evidently for staying and adding the sax solo) - but we don't see that for Lyle.
A good, and probably unanswerable, question.
DonnyL:
Quote from: c-man on September 26, 2016, 11:41:17 AM
Quote from: aeijtzsche on September 25, 2016, 05:26:55 PM
There is the bizarre question of why the string bass was split in some fashion and given its own track in addition to being audible on the same track as the general rhythm instruments. That's another one I'm just tired of not having an answer for.
The original "GOK" 4-track tape has horns, violins, and accordions on one track - drums, harpsichord, piano, guitar, and percussion on another - and bass by itself on a third (actually the second) track. The fourth track contains a mono mix of the other three tracks, as is sometimes the case with BW-produced 4-tracks of this era.
If they baffled off the upright bass and recorded it with a super-directional mic, that might account for no leakage from the other instruments...but if it was baffled, would it have still picked up on the mics of the other instruments? Maybe the baffle and directional mic combined were sufficient for keeping out the sounds of the other instruments, but the baffle wasn't enough to keep the low frequencies of the upright from leaking out into the microphones of the other instruments? The only other thing that would make sense would be if Brian had Lyle redo the upright as an overdub on its own track, which would still leave the original upright sound there as leakage onto the other tracks (a similar thing happened with the drums on the 1963 track "The Rocking Surfer" - Dennis' original drumming was replaced, yet it's still there as leakage on the remaining original tracks, along with Mike's saxophone). The only problem with that "GOK" bass theory would be that there would have had to be enough time left on the clock from the original 3.75 hour session (the standard three hours plus 45 minutes of overtime) after the other musicians were dismissed, otherwise we'd expect to see a higher pay rate for Lyle (outside of officially-designated AFM session "leader" Hal Blaine and contractor Jay Migliori, the only players on the "GOK" session payed a higher rate than the others were Leonard Hartman, Bill Green, and Jim Horn - and each of their names is accompanied by a notation that they played a "double" - and in Bill Green's case, he was paid even more, evidently for staying and adding the sax solo) - but we don't see that for Lyle.
A good, and probably unanswerable, question.
I think we've been through the ringer on this question a few times!
... I didn't know about the timeclock issue though ... do you think it's possible Lyle overdubbed the extra bass at a later date?
MAYBE the clue lies in the sax overdub. Why would they have recorded an ENTIRE band on on 2 tracks instead of 3, unless that third was to be reserved for an overdub?
Craig, do you know if the sax solo was overdubbed before or after vocal work began? Because if it were before, then a decent theory might be that the third track was reserved for the sax solo, and when Brian decided he didn't want to keep it, he may have wanted a deeper bass sound and added the upright overdub.
If the sax solo was done on the vocal tape (as an overdub on the 8-track master), then my best theory is that Brian wanted more isolation and wiggle room for that bass and it was done at the live session.
metal flake paint:
Quote from: c-man on September 25, 2016, 11:01:18 PM
Quote from: TheWonderfulHarpsichord on September 25, 2016, 04:11:50 PM
Quote from: c-man on September 25, 2016, 03:19:59 PM
Assuming the three-bass scenario led me to originally conclude that Carl must be playing the guitar, but as I later pointed out on this board, and as you mentioned above, the jazzy guitar doodling between takes points to a studio pro rather than Carl, and according to someone on this board, Terry Melcher had gone on record as saying Carl did not play on the session. If Bruce was recalling that he did, perhaps he was thinking of a different session (do we have a source for that Bruce quote)?
In the September 1990 edition of Select magazine, Bruce makes the following observation about the GOK session:
"I was there!...Carl was in the booth playing 12-string cos there was no more room. And there were about six fiddles - we didn't call them strings, they were fiddles - and an electric bass and an acoustic bass and a keyboard and some percussion, and the guy who's playing the drums."
c-man:
Quote from: metal flake paint on September 26, 2016, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: c-man on September 25, 2016, 11:01:18 PM
Quote from: TheWonderfulHarpsichord on September 25, 2016, 04:11:50 PM
Quote from: c-man on September 25, 2016, 03:19:59 PM
Assuming the three-bass scenario led me to originally conclude that Carl must be playing the guitar, but as I later pointed out on this board, and as you mentioned above, the jazzy guitar doodling between takes points to a studio pro rather than Carl, and according to someone on this board, Terry Melcher had gone on record as saying Carl did not play on the session. If Bruce was recalling that he did, perhaps he was thinking of a different session (do we have a source for that Bruce quote)?
In the September 1990 edition of Select magazine, Bruce makes the following observation about the GOK session:
"I was there!...Carl was in the booth playing 12-string cos there was no more room. And there were about six fiddles - we didn't call them strings, they were fiddles - and an electric bass and an acoustic bass and a keyboard and some percussion, and the guy who's playing the drums."
Hmm...well, maybe Carl and Carol BOTH played 12-string on this session (the way Carl and Jerry Cole both played 12-string on "California Girls", and Barney and Glen both played 12-string on some of the other Pet Sounds cuts). Carol definitely played 12-string electric on the second session of "Good Vibrations" (April 9th at Gold Star), and most likely on "I'm Waiting For The Day" (similar situation to "GOK" - apparently only two basses, definitely Ray on the Fender and Lyle on the upright, leaving Carol as the probable guitarist) and the basic track to "Caroline, No" (although she also overdubbed the Dano bass on that one).
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