Mike's Book Discussion Thread (and how it relates to the SS board)

[MikestheGreatest!!]

myKe luHv's leaky, unseaworthy boat sunk many moons ago. Now, just like his reputation, it gathers barnacles with the passage of time with schools of fish looking for food passing by it with no interest.

Uh, yeah, so has your boat and reputation.  Though I doubt you ever had a boat to begin with....

[Robbie Mac]

Letter to the Editor in the December 2016 issue of Vanity Fair:

In your review of Beach Boys biographies, I was surprised to learn of my attempt to shower with Mike Love. Ironically, he's the second writer in as many months to allege a soap-and-water sexual advance by one of the "dirty Manson girls." Mike Love's memoir may be, as you say, a better read than Brian's but I couldn't believe anything he says. I've never been within 10 feet of Mike Love.

LYNETTE FROMME
Central New York State

EDITOR'S NOTE: Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme was a member of Charles Manson's "family." In 1975, she tried to assassinate President Gerald Ford. Fromme was released from prison in 2009.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Wow

[guitarfool2002]

Mike is having a really bad day when Squeaky Fromme has to write a letter from the pokey to fact-check his book...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I thought she was released?

But yeah, if someone like her is putting you on blast, it's time to rethink your strategy!

[guitarfool2002]

Haha, yes - I fixed it. Thanks for the catch, I was probably laughing so hard I missed that part of it. 

Fact-checked by Squeaky Fromme. Man, that is low.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

[Zargo]

Just finished listening to this, an engrossing listen. It's "fun" to have Mike croaking his lyrics into my ears, as most of the time he can't resist singing them when he starts reading them out. It's interesting the few he doesn't, perhaps unsurprisingly "The warmth of the Sun" and more curiously "Summer in Paradise."

Particularly interesting to read in follow-up to "Heroes and Villains: The true story of the beach boys" and read about the same events from Mike's perspective.

Mike did get screwed with the 2012 reunion, but certainly glad it happened and he didn't walk out on it.

[“Big Daddy”]

Mike’s book hits paperback on September 12 in the US according to https://www.amazon.com/dp/0735212333/.

[HeyJude]

Mike did get screwed with the 2012 reunion

Debatable, especially if you read sources other than Mike's book. Even with Mike's book as a sole source, I found some of his reasoning rather dubious. I found his financial details rather ambiguous and lacking, and in particular I found it troubling that he didn't reveal how much of an guarantee/advance he got for doing that tour.

Ultimately, nothing he wrote changed my opinion that he hates Melinda and hates not being in charge more than he cares about being with Brian or Al, or having the full band together, to say nothing of what fans want.

[Zargo]

Mike did get screwed with the 2012 reunion

Debatable, especially if you read sources other than Mike's book. Even with Mike's book as a sole source, I found some of his reasoning rather dubious. I found his financial details rather ambiguous and lacking, and in particular I found it troubling that he didn't reveal how much of an guarantee/advance he got for doing that tour.

Ultimately, nothing he wrote changed my opinion that he hates Melinda and hates not being in charge more than he cares about being with Brian or Al, or having the full band together, to say nothing of what fans want.

Well, I agree that he doesn't think it's worth the trouble. When a relationship is that bad between two people (in that case Mike and Melinda) I don't see why he would think otherwise unless it appears there might be some "healing" in it. The 74 ( ? ) dates were pretty extensive, most of us could get to see one. Naturally we would love to have that opportunity again but there isn't that much for fans to whine about. Plenty around to see/hear and enjoy from the separate bands.

[HeyJude]

Well, I agree that he doesn't think it's worth the trouble. When a relationship is that bad between two people (in that case Mike and Melinda) I don't see why he would think otherwise unless it appears there might be some "healing" in it. The 74 ( ? ) dates were pretty extensive, most of us could get to see one. Naturally we would love to have that opportunity again but there isn't that much for fans to whine about. Plenty around to see/hear and enjoy from the separate bands.

From an industry point of view, the 2012 reunion tour was *not* extensive at all. Howie Edelson has spoken in the past about this at length. Check out some of his posts on the subject.

For a band to reunite for the first time in decades, and to then have a hit #3 album and sell out venues and, just as importantly, garner *rave* reviews, 73 or 74 dates is most definitely cutting it way too short.

The *biggest* tour in decades with the best reviews and press, and they did *fewer* shows than any year since possibly 1977 when they took the first half of the year off.

They *barely* touched on any markets outside of the USA. 23 dates to cover all of Asia, Australia/New Zealand, and Europe? No way, that's not extensive. They could have easily booked MONTHS in Europe alone. Numerous weeks in the UK alone. If Mike alone or Brian alone can spend a month in the UK, the C50 reunion could have.

They could have gone on to book gigs in China and Russia. More Japan dates. Not to mention return visits to popular markets in the US, and additional markets they didn't hit.

Brian's 2016 tour was more extensive than the BB C50 reunion. That's nuts.

The C50 tour was long only in the "they could all blow up and call the whole thing off at any moment" sense.

But from an objective point of view in terms of how the industry works with shows like that, the band rightfully ended up being the laughing stock of the industry in late 2012 for f**king up such an amazing thing. Passing on Madison Square Garden to book Nutty Jerry's. That's how the tour ended.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Haha, yes - I fixed it. Thanks for the catch, I was probably laughing so hard I missed that part of it. 

Fact-checked by Squeaky Fromme. Man, that is low.

Yes, it is low but he's used to being in that territory. Good job in checking, Squeaky and a good chance this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Zargo]

From an industry point of view, the 2012 reunion tour was *not* extensive at all. Howie Edelson has spoken in the past about this at length. Check out some of his posts on the subject.

For a band to reunite for the first time in decades, and to then have a hit #3 album and sell out venues and, just as importantly, garner *rave* reviews, 73 or 74 dates is most definitely cutting it way too short.

The *biggest* tour in decades with the best reviews and press, and they did *fewer* shows than any year since possibly 1977 when they took the first half of the year off.

They *barely* touched on any markets outside of the USA. 23 dates to cover all of Asia, Australia/New Zealand, and Europe? No way, that's not extensive. They could have easily booked MONTHS in Europe alone. Numerous weeks in the UK alone. If Mike alone or Brian alone can spend a month in the UK, the C50 reunion could have.

They could have gone on to book gigs in China and Russia. More Japan dates. Not to mention return visits to popular markets in the US, and additional markets they didn't hit.

Brian's 2016 tour was more extensive than the BB C50 reunion. That's nuts.

The C50 tour was long only in the "they could all blow up and call the whole thing off at any moment" sense.

But from an objective point of view in terms of how the industry works with shows like that, the band rightfully ended up being the laughing stock of the industry in late 2012 for f**king up such an amazing thing. Passing on Madison Square Garden to book Nutty Jerry's. That's how the tour ended.

I see what you're saying, but I reckon most of the people who give much of a toss about it being the "complete" living beach boys all together were able to see a show. Do they care much in Asia? I don't think they care too much here in Australia/NZ.

Apparently Brian and Al loved the whole thing, it would be interesting to know what Bruce or David thought about the whole thing and how much tension filtered down to them.

[HeyJude]

I see what you're saying, but I reckon most of the people who give much of a toss about it being the "complete" living beach boys all together were able to see a show. Do they care much in Asia? I don't think they care too much here in Australia/NZ.

Apparently Brian and Al loved the whole thing, it would be interesting to know what Bruce or David thought about the whole thing and how much tension filtered down to them.

There was and is a huge market for the full reunion lineup in all regions. The reunion lineup could book larger venues, and/or more nights at similar venues that Mike or Brian book on their own.

The name on its own is *always* going to be valuable enough to book venues and sell tickets, but the reunion lineup, *especially* with good PR and advertising and a good marketing campaign, will always sell even more. It also, just as importantly, would help to build up the brand and trademark and its value in the industry. Rolling Stone wasn't doing cover pieces on Mike's touring band pre-2012.

Maybe Howie Edelson or others more intimately familiar with the "industry" buzz can elaborate, but there were plenty in the concert industry eyeing the reunion lineup in a way they NEVER had eyed Mike's lineup. There was also a story about this in Pollstar or one of the industry trade papers back in 2012, featuring an industry guy specifically mentioning that Mike's touring incessantly with the watered-down lineup *had* devalued the brand/trademark in the eyes of the industry.

Back to the idea that "everyone who wanted to see a reunion show probably got a chance", that's not really in the realm of what I'm talking about. My point is not that they should have booked WAY more shows and kept the reunion going simply so that hardcore fans would get their one shot at seeing the reunion lineup. They should have continued simply because it was a GREAT show, getting industry cred and rave reviews and buzz in a way Mike's lineup never had. To again borrow one of Howie Edelson's phrases, they went from Frankie Valli to Mick Jagger seemingly overnight. They could have *continued* to build that up.

You really have to think far outside of the bubble of super hardcore fans simply scratching "reunion show" off their bucket list. The reunion was about (or *could* have been about) much, much more in building the brand and trademark back up and associating "The Beach Boys" as a touring band with the likes of the Stones and McCartney and other A-list acts, which is where "The Beach Boys" should be, rather than Mike settling for being another "Four Tops" or "Grass Roots" playing "Malt Shop Memories" cruises.

[HeyJude]

As for the interesting question of how the other BBs felt about the reunion, I think clearly Brian and Al were into it and wanted to keep going.

I think Mike, for the five seconds where he didn't let his million hang-ups color his opinion, appeared to have enjoyed aspects of it. But I think having such seething contempt for Melinda canceled everything out, which maybe helps to tell us how much he must dislike her, and/or how little weight he gives to the joy of having the band reunited and being with Brian.

It at least seems on the outside that Bruce cared the least. He was the one guy saying *before* the tour started with seeming glee that the reunion had a fixed ending. I'm guessing the C50 tour may have just seemed to Bruce like an unfortunate roadblock to his and Mike's "Night at the Roxbury" shtick that they've been doing for years touring on their own.

Dave seems neutral. I'm guessing he probably saw the value of having the full band together, and he of course signed on to continue with Brian and Al in 2013. I'm guessing he probably didn't reap nearly the financial rewards off of C50 that any of the other principles did. Yet, I'm guessing he would have happily continued. Dave kind of seems to be the only guy who I would weirdly say has the *luxury* in a sense to be cordial with everyone, because he doesn't have the half century of BB and BRI politics informing his relationship with the others.

[KDS]

Dave seems neutral. I'm guessing he probably saw the value of having the full band together, and he of course signed on to continue with Brian and Al in 2013. I'm guessing he probably didn't reap nearly the financial rewards off of C50 that any of the other principles did. Yet, I'm guessing he would have happily continued. Dave kind of seems to be the only guy who I would weirdly say has the *luxury* in a sense to be cordial with everyone, because he doesn't have the half century of BB and BRI politics informing his relationship with the others.

Which is probably why David freely crosses the fence between camps. 

In 2015, he appeared on Brian's No Pier Pressure, and did some shows with Mike and Bruce.