Mike's Book Discussion Thread (and how it relates to the SS board)

[Rocker]

Tried to get together all the Mike book related appearances on TV/camera that I could find:



Beach Boy Mike Love On What Killed His Relationship With Brian Wilson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyibidjXoFM



Beach Boy Mike Love; Charles Manson Followed Me Into The Shower

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggsU2444dI



Mike Love on the Secret History of the Beach Boys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5swduWaamVE



Mike Love on the Secret History of the Beach Boys 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isUsD4f8Hxk

Beach Boys' Mike Love on Brian Wilson and 'Kokomo'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9HILO3udI8

Beach Boys' Mike Love on Crossing Paths with Charles Manson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvOyU3KHgU

Mike Love enters the 'No Spin Zone'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwb6Vo6TpGs



The View (September 15, 2016) The Beach Boys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbFcnM9-Qc

[mojoman3061]

I've checked Mike's book out of my local library and read it, and it's a mixed bag, as I expected.

I liked the stuff I didn't know much about before--that is, the family background stuff (plus an assortment of old family photos that I've never seen).

He tells the circumstances of his first marriage differently from what Stephen Gaines, Timothy White, and Jim Murphy wrote.  Their version is that Mike and Franny were going to go to Tijuana to get an abortion without telling anyone, but Franny's parents found out somehow, confronted Mike's parents with it, and insisted Mike marry their daughter.  The way Mike tells it, he got her pregnant twice.  The first time, they got her an abortion at a clinic in East Los Angeles.  The second time, they went to Tijuana and couldn't go through with it.  Mike writes that he told his mother that Franny was pregnant and they were going to get married.

Oh, and he doesn't mention Shawn until she gets involved with Dennis in her teens.

As for Mike's use of the six-letter N-word, I read it as a high-school locker-room thing.  He went to a high school with a substantial black student population and had several black teammates.  I think he was trying to illustrate that he was close enough friends with his black teammates to talk that way when he was with them, as if they were part of the same in-group.  I seriously doubt he would use that word out in the world in general, then or now.

As for Hawthorne at that time, I think the Wilson brothers may not have gone to school with black students.  There were plenty of places all over the USA in those days that didn't allow blacks to live there.

[Peter Reum]

The psychological dynamics of memoirs are at best subjective. They are usually related to emotional events. The memory may focus on the emotions of the event as opposed to the "objective"  version of events.

Depending on the emotional dynamics of the event, the memory can tilt the author to write down one of several possible views of the events being recalled. Emotions can range from fear to revulsion in a perceived event from memory when stress related feelings are surfacing from long-term memory. On an event which is recalled favorably, emotions can range from being surprised and then pleased, to what used to be called a peak experience, with ecstatic responses.

One variation can occur which is feelings of regret, ranging from mild guilt to extreme emotional self-loathing with self-destructiveness.  The fascinating thing is that self-defining events are like car crashes, in that several witnesses may have conflicting views. Any insurance adjuster or police person knows this clearly. Hence the differing accounts of Beach Boys' important events.

[urbanite]

Very true.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Lot's of haters here. Wow . Mike seems pretty much at peace with himself .

Whether he is or not, what does a person being at (largely rationalized in this case IMO) peace with himself, i.e. their perspective on themselves, have to do with others' opinions of that person's words or deeds? And, if (I  emphasize IF) that person's words or deeds are subjectively objectionable and people express their sincere personal opinions about them, isn't that proportional and not merely gratuitous "hating?" Is criticism even "hatred" per se?

[“Big Daddy”]

At my local bookstore in the middle of nowhere, there was a stack of books signed by Mike although he hasn’t made an appearance in the area. Is this some indie bookstore exclusive or something? Sorry if I missed someone else discussing this.

[Pretty Funky]

Mike cops another load from RS.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/brian-wilson-mike-love-tell-all-in-beach-boy-memoirs-w441962

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

myKe luHv seems very comfortable in his most fitting role in life as one of the biggest assholes of all time. His book will be the final nail in this clown's coffin.

[Lee Marshall]

"He doesn't care if you like him or not – what he cares about is settling scores and nursing grudges. Good Vibrations is one of the most gleefully petty rock memoirs ever "

Another well deserved and glowing endorsement I'm sure.  One day I will read it...when it's available at my local library.  I'm not giving that dink any of my money ever again.  Meanwhile I've seen enough quotes and bits from this latest version of the same tired story...a story I've been hearing from the horse's ass...sorry...horse's mouth for decades.  And I've been aware that ol' Chrome Dome hasn't been a team player since the later 60s...so... ... ...

What's to like?  Some of the talent?  [or at least what there is of it which ISN'T highly overblown]  It sure as sh*t can't be the 'man'.  [or at least what there is of it which ISN'T highly overblown] 

[thorgil]

Lee, the excerpts I read were more than enough for me. Not going to touch the actual book with a pole, not even for free.

On the other hand, I read some excerpts of Brian's book on Amazon. It looks much better than I was expecting: it's uncanny how you hear Brian's unmistakable "voice" in the narrative. That's great work by Ben Greenman in channeling it so well. I also like the constant temporal shifting.

[Love Thang]

The best part of Mike's book is when he discusses how he could have done a much better job with the lyrics on Pet Sounds than Tony Asher. "More commercial."
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times would have sounded great with a hot rod mention.

[HeyJude]

That's funny juxtaposed against Mike's (arguably) limp praise for Asher's lyrics in the recent "Classic Albums" PS documentary.

[pixletwin]

The best part of Mike's book is when he discusses how he could have done a much better job with the lyrics on Pet Sounds than Tony Asher. "More commercial."
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times would have sounded great with a hot rod mention.

Mike was just a one trick pony. In the mid to late 60's Mike was at his peak writing lyrics. Come on. Good Vibrations. Nearly every song on Wild Honey. Those are great lyrics. I don't believe he could have out-done Asher, but to dismiss Mike's abilities as if everything he ever wrote about was surfing and car songs is disingenuous at worst and ignorant at best.

[CenturyDeprived]

The best part of Mike's book is when he discusses how he could have done a much better job with the lyrics on Pet Sounds than Tony Asher. "More commercial."
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times would have sounded great with a hot rod mention.

Mike was just a one trick pony. In the mid to late 60's Mike was at his peak writing lyrics. Come on. Good Vibrations. Nearly every song on Wild Honey. Those are great lyrics. I don't believe he could have out-done Asher, but to dismiss Mike's abilities as if everything he ever wrote about was surfing and car songs is disingenuous at worst and ignorant at best.

Mike had/has lyrical talent and abilities, beyond trite hot rod type lyrics, yes. He could be deeper when he wanted to be, no doubt about it. Nobody should put down his better lyrics.

However... Mike also had/has the unfortunate flaw of being too critical of Brian, not to mention being unquestionably the most entitled and risk-averse collaborator that Brian has ever worked with, and he would often resist and question and bully his ideology into getting his way, and disrupt Brian's ideas from fully flowering. Not all the time, every time, but enough times that including him as a collaborator - ESPECIALLY on a more avant-garde project that is exploring new ground for the band - really puts Brian's art at risk from not turning out right.   Not that every single of Mike's criticisms of Brian's ideas were all wrong every time - I'm certain that Mike made some fantastic contributions which we are lucky to have gotten from him - but it just wasn't worth the baggage he'd bring after a certain point in their career when one weighs the good vs. the bad.

Need anyone be reminded of Mike's "happy" lyrics for Til I Die? (Not sure if Mike wrote them, but as I've heard, it was Mike's insistence that Brian water down any "sad" parts of the song - thank heavens Mike's dumb idea was eventually nixed on this).

Let's be honest here: If Mike had somehow pushed Tony Asher out of the picture, and Brian wanted to write a song like I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, and Mike was the lyricist on the project, how would Mike have reacted to this? Tony Asher himself has gone on record saying that this was a song that was difficult for him to relate to, because it was Brian expressing a very Brian point of view... but guess what? Tony did his job and went ahead and etched out a set of rad lyrics that were not watered down.

Does anyone really think that Mike *wouldn't* have given Brian a hard time about that song's message, and chipped away at Brian, putting doubts in Brian's mind about the song, enough to finally cause Brian to maybe just say "f*ck it" and release a more Mike-centric version of the song? That would have been a travesty. The song is PERFECT as it is. It needed NO Mike input. Mike could not have written lyrics like those, or even if he was actually capable of it, the baggage Mike would have brought to it would not have been worth it by a mile.

Why the hell does Brian now (or did he then) need that kind of aggravation and entitled guilt trip BS? Can anyone answer me that? The last thing Brian needs is to work with someone pushy, who is afraid of their contributions not being utilized; a collaborator who is writing music not just for the art of it, but with some misguided self-esteem reasons motivating their every move. Not every damn song needs to be "commercial". Mike wrote lyrics to my favorite BB song, Please Let Me Wonder, and I'll forever cherish that contribution. He CAN kick ass when he wants to. But his baggage would not have been worth it on Pet Sounds. That's a fact.

We are VERY lucky that Mike was not the primary lyricist on the Pet Sounds album. VERY. The fact that Mike doesn't get this after all this time just adds evidence to the fact that he became toxic to Brian long ago. 

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike is pushy and that didn't work for BW to express himself like he did on PS.

[Robbie Mac]

Mike is pushy and that didn't work for BW to express himself like he did on PS.

Bingo. Pushy worked on the hits because they were, as Brian put it, very "competitive" songs. Mike COULD show sensitivity,  like on The Warmth Of The Sun and GV, but trying to impose his will and his ideas on PS would have ruined it, IMHO.

[CenturyDeprived]

Mike is pushy and that didn't work for BW to express himself like he did on PS.

Bingo. Pushy worked on the hits because they were, as Brian put it, very "competitive" songs. Mike COULD show sensitivity,  like on The Warmth Of The Sun and GV, but trying to impose his will and his ideas on PS would have ruined it, IMHO.

+1

[Pretty Funky]

Wow, some good points. Imagine Asher getting pushed out. Brian could have abandoned the album. Never thought of it like that.

[Rocker]

Wow, some good points. Imagine Asher getting pushed out. Brian could have abandoned the album. Never thought of it like that.

I'd imagine WIBN with lyrics like All Summer Long

[Dove Nested Towers]

The best part of Mike's book is when he discusses how he could have done a much better job with the lyrics on Pet Sounds than Tony Asher. "More commercial."
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times would have sounded great with a hot rod mention.

Mike was just a one trick pony. In the mid to late 60's Mike was at his peak writing lyrics. Come on. Good Vibrations. Nearly every song on Wild Honey. Those are great lyrics. I don't believe he could have out-done Asher, but to dismiss Mike's abilities as if everything he ever wrote about was surfing and car songs is disingenuous at worst and ignorant at best.

Mike had/has lyrical talent and abilities, beyond trite hot rod type lyrics, yes. He could be deeper when he wanted to be, no doubt about it. Nobody should put down his better lyrics.

However... Mike also had/has the unfortunate flaw of being too critical of Brian, not to mention being unquestionably the most entitled and risk-averse collaborator that Brian has ever worked with, and he would often resist and question and bully his ideology into getting his way, and disrupt Brian's ideas from fully flowering. Not all the time, every time, but enough times that including him as a collaborator - ESPECIALLY on a more avant-garde project that is exploring new ground for the band - really puts Brian's art at risk from not turning out right.   Not that every single of Mike's criticisms of Brian's ideas were all wrong every time - I'm certain that Mike made some fantastic contributions which we are lucky to have gotten from him - but it just wasn't worth the baggage he'd bring after a certain point in their career when one weighs the good vs. the bad.

Need anyone be reminded of Mike's "happy" lyrics for Til I Die? (Not sure if Mike wrote them, but as I've heard, it was Mike's insistence that Brian water down any "sad" parts of the song - thank heavens Mike's dumb idea was eventually nixed on this).

Let's be honest here: If Mike had somehow pushed Tony Asher out of the picture, and Brian wanted to write a song like I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, and Mike was the lyricist on the project, how would Mike have reacted to this? Tony Asher himself has gone on record saying that this was a song that was difficult for him to relate to, because it was Brian expressing a very Brian point of view... but guess what? Tony did his job and went ahead and etched out a set of rad lyrics that were not watered down.

Does anyone really think that Mike *wouldn't* have given Brian a hard time about that song's message, and chipped away at Brian, putting doubts in Brian's mind about the song, enough to finally cause Brian to maybe just say "f*ck it" and release a more Mike-centric version of the song? That would have been a travesty. The song is PERFECT as it is. It needed NO Mike input. Mike could not have written lyrics like those, or even if he was actually capable of it, the baggage Mike would have brought to it would not have been worth it by a mile.

Why the hell does Brian now (or did he then) need that kind of aggravation and entitled guilt trip BS? Can anyone answer me that? The last thing Brian needs is to work with someone pushy, who is afraid of their contributions not being utilized; a collaborator who is writing music not just for the art of it, but with some misguided self-esteem reasons motivating their every move. Not every damn song needs to be "commercial". Mike wrote lyrics to my favorite BB song, Please Let Me Wonder, and I'll forever cherish that contribution. He CAN kick ass when he wants to. But his baggage would not have been worth it on Pet Sounds. That's a fact.

We are VERY lucky that Mike was not the primary lyricist on the Pet Sounds album. VERY. The fact that Mike doesn't get this after all this time just adds evidence to the fact that he became toxic to Brian long ago. 

Spot on.

[Love Thang]

The best part of Mike's book is when he discusses how he could have done a much better job with the lyrics on Pet Sounds than Tony Asher. "More commercial."
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times would have sounded great with a hot rod mention.

Mike was just a one trick pony. In the mid to late 60's Mike was at his peak writing lyrics. Come on. Good Vibrations. Nearly every song on Wild Honey. Those are great lyrics. I don't believe he could have out-done Asher, but to dismiss Mike's abilities as if everything he ever wrote about was surfing and car songs is disingenuous at worst and ignorant at best.

For the record, I appreciate Mike's contribution to the band which was huge. And he proved with songs like the Warmth of the Sun that he could write terrific lyrics which weren't about just BS. I'm halfway through the book so far and I have actually enjoyed it. It just sort of rubs me the wrong way that he still thinks an album which is rightfully hailed as one of the greatest of all time needed more of his influence. It's perfect as is.

[urbanite]

Nothing has prevented Mike Love from writing new songs and proving that he can still write hits without Brian Wilson, but the best he comes up with is Pisces Brothers.  Would Kokomo have still been a hit if Mike hadn't made a small change in the lyrics?  Probably.  He put up with a lot of crap touring with a band that had a totally dysfunctional member, but he has a lot of his own baggage.  I wish someone would ask him why he spent so much time in this book settling scores and venting about grudges when he has often described himself as someone who emphasizes the positive.

[pixletwin]

I wish someone would ask him why he spent so much time in this book settling scores and venting about grudges when he has often described himself as someone who emphasizes the positive.

Because Mr Positivity knows what we all want to read.

[jeremylr]

Journalist Ken Sharp often delivers an incisive interview influenced by a fan's perspective. Here's an example that appeared in my inbox yesterday, part one of a new conversation with Mike for Rock Cellar Magazine. Good to find him discussing Dennis & their songwriting (I'll paste the Dennis comments below)

http://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/2016/10/07/mike-love-interview-good-vibrations-beach-boys/#sthash.djgndzG8.dpbs
All You Need is Love: Mike Love of the Beach Boys Q&A


It’s well known you had issues with Dennis Wilson through the years, you bit him in a fight in the ’60s?

Mike Love: Oh yeah. He filled up a squirt gun with some urine in the bathroom in Des Moines (laughs) when we were on one of our earlier tours and that didn’t’ go over so well with me. (laughs) Anyway. So yeah, we brawled that time but we came to our senses also and said, “Well, we have shows to do so we better stop beating the hell out of each other.” (laughs)

But you were also very close at time too, even sharing an apartment together in the early ‘60s. Looking back with love, what were the things you loved most about Dennis?

Mike Love: He and I were the driving forces in the band when you talk about the competitive forces of the Beach Boys. I think we were right there lockstep with each other when we went out to do a concert. We’d say, “Let’s go out there and kick some ass!” He would beat the hell out of the drums so he was a very powerful drummer and he had that competitive spirit. He was also tremendously attractive to the young ladies as well. And he was also very generous and giving in his own way. He didn’t care much about possessions. He ran through his money like water.

You credit him with the gift of connecting you with meditation and the Maharishi and near the end of his life, you rescued Dennis somewhere in Venice and it all came back to meditation.

Mike Love: As you know, transcendental meditation has been an important part of my life. It’s one of the most important things in my life because it’s given me the inner strength and ability and flexibility in coping with stress. There’s plenty of them…personal stresses, familial stress, business stresses and being in a group itself. It can be a hassle.

We had left Paris in December of ’67 and gone to London and no sooner had we arrived in London that I got a call from Dennis saying, “Hey, you gotta come back to Paris!” And I said, “Why is that?” And he said, “Maharishi is gonna teach us to meditate.” So it was actually Dennis’ call to me that got us to fly back to Paris and this is before we’d even been in England for 24 hours. So we flew back and did in fact get initiated into TM by Maharishi in December of ’67. So it was because of that call from Dennis that that happened. I had gone to a meditation lecture before that but didn’t sign up for it because I’d gotten into an argument. Because of the value and importance of meditation I became a teacher of TM. I went to a six month long meditation course in the ‘70s; six months living like a monk!

“So it’s been an invaluable experience. Meditation has meant a tremendous amount to me and I always have to attribute that connection to Dennis. Even when he was having problems with alcohol or whatever kind of drugs he was taking, he never forgot about meditation. So when I went to visit him when he was living in Venice and he had been kicked out of the group because he was dysfunctional because of alcoholism and drug abuse, he still said, ‘Let’s meditate.’ We always tried to help Dennis; same thing with Brian and we supported the whole thing with Dr. Landy because we felt it was preferable than him dying and the same thing with Dennis. The reason we kicked Dennis out of the group is not because we didn’t want him in the group, we wanted him to get healthy. But Dennis was tough. He would go into rehab for a night and then leave the next day. Those demons just had a hold of him and he could never quite shake them.

There was talk you told him that had he toured behind his solo album, he would be been thrown out of the band. But in your book, you state that rumor is not true.

Mike Love: No, it’s not true that I told Dennis if he went off on a solo tour that he’d be kicked out of the Beach Boys, I don’t know where this kind of crap comes from but it’s all bullshit. (laughs) I mean, there are so many things that are outright inaccuracies and lies. I would have never said that to Dennis but I would say is, “Dennis, you have to go get your life together, you have to get healthy and until you do that, don’t come around.” We also would show tough love to Dennis; Carl and myself.

You worked with Dennis on his solo album, Pacific Ocean Blue, penning  the lyrics for the title track.

Mike Love: Yeah, well, the thing is he had a boat and he lived on his boat for a quite a while. It was called “Harmony.” He and I both had concerns about the environment so he asked me to go ahead and write the lyrics to the song that he had come up with. So I was happy to do that and I was looking forward to doing more with him because there were plans to do future albums.  My success in songwriting happened with my cousin Brian, Dennis’ brother. They were different styles of writers. Brian had a way of crafting things and I would come up with some hooks and he would incorporate them into the song. With Dennis he would write the song and have a track and give me that to write to. That’s how I worked with him on previous songs like Only With You and Sound of Free. With Brian I’d sit at the piano and we’d interactively create the song. He also had aspirations to be in the movies and he appeared in the film, Two Lane Blacktop.

[guitarfool2002]

It's perfect as is.

That truly is the definitive statement on this issue, and it's one which I'm pretty confident 99.9% of people who know Pet Sounds would agree with. The others who may not agree being Mike and...I don't know.