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filledeplage
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« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2016, 10:46:23 AM »

Touring band aka solo group behind Mike's personal support for Trump. For somebody who drones on and on for what's best for the corporate BRI, you seem to support this rash move 100 percent.

Mike is a conservative, and has been for awhile.  So, I really wouldn't call his decision to support Donald Trump a rash decision.  

But, if you want to use this as yet another excuse to dump on Mike, more power to you.  

What if Mike, using the BB brand name, played at a David Duke rally (back when racist pig/noted Trump supporter Duke, was running for office)? Would that bug you? Does there exist a potential politician with absolutely *any* kind of views whatsoever that would finally cross the line and make you say "yeah, that is really not cool" regarding the band's association with said person?

Since David Duke is a racist and a one time KKK, I wouldn't be too happy about it.  

Since Donald Trump is not a racist, then play on.  .

Well I'm glad you would nix the idea of being happy about them playing a Duke rally. I hope you can at least understand and empathize that if someone other than yourself believes that Trump is promoting racist views - even if you don't personally agree with that assessment - that it's at least understandable that people with that viewpoint (and there are many) would be put off by the brand name being associated with him.  

I get it.  Trump's a polarizer.  I'll respect somebody's opinion for/against Trump, as I'd expect the same in return.  I'm not so certain if I'd go so far to empathize with that person. 

But, I think there's also some anti-Mike bias in play with this thread.

Why does a vile POS like Donald Trump deserve respect?
As a person, no one has to respect or like Trump, but he gets to get up and do his speeches, just as others whose viewpoints might be unpopular.    

The opposition would like to paint Trump as a racist or sexist, because the opposition can drive a narrative that way.  

What sexist puts his daughter in charge of the family business if there are males available?

But that has nothing to do with whether the Touring Band should play at the Republican convention.  
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filledeplage
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« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2016, 10:55:17 AM »

Hey Jude - here is my problem with that analysis.  During this contentious election cycle, there is an undercurrent which would silence free speech and tell (the opposition) they have "no right to a say" because they don't agree with it.  That is the beauty of the USA - the ability to speak freely (within some time, place and manner constraints.)  

If the band takes a gig, it does not equal an endorsement.  It is business.  Now, suppose that the Touring BB's were regularly turning down good work, because of a difference in some political opinion, and it hurt the overall BRI bottom line, couldn't that pose a problem?   Wink

To your first point regarding "silencing free speech", that's nonsense as far as I'm concerned. That sounds like an entirely imaginary argument. People have been trying for ages to equate disagreement with stifling of free speech. It's a common tactic, and it's silly.

When someone says something you say or believe in is total bulls**t, they're not trying to keep you from saying it. They're just calling it bulls**t.

As for taking a gig, if it's a fundraiser gig or other political event for a candidate, OF COURSE it's perceived as an endorsement. We already had this ridiculous "if someone doesn't specifically say they're voting for someone or that they official endorse them, then it's not an endorsement" discussion before.

And if Mike, in some hypothetical, said "We're doing this Trump rally gig, but we're not endorsing him; We just take a gig because it pays", then that might actually come off *even worse* than doing the gig due to political convictions.

The answer, the EASY answer when it comes to PR and brand management, would be for an actual Beach Boys manager to say "OF COURSE it's a bad idea to play at a Trump-related gig", regardless of whether every board member and associate of BRI is a staunch conservative. It would be a HORRIBLE PR move, and as I said above, it would probably only make it worse to use the "hey, it's a paying gig, I don't care who the event is linked to" reasoning.

Not taking any politics-related gigs is a non-issue when it comes to BRI's or MELECO's bottom line, and even suggesting not taking a Trump-related gig would hurt their income is laughable. Nearly all gigs are either normal public gigs or private corporate gigs. If Mike's tour schedule turns to predominantly political rallies and party conventions, then he and BRI have far bigger problems.
Hey Jude - here is the difference that I have seen in this election cycle.  And this is a little off-topic only tangentially related to a thread that is inflammatory because no one bothered to check the Touring Band's schedule (unless they will do a fly-over to do 2 cities in one day) - that week is booked.  So, it is moot.  They are unavailable, "apparently."

Yes, the demonstrations to "stop Trump" from appearing and silence that viewpoint have occurred this year.  Free Speech (and including political speech) is protected within some basic time, place and manner considerations.  Let's not make this either personal or confrontational.  The confrontational nonsense is one of the issues that precipitated the development of another BB board.  "Shutting people down" or the demonstrations which have been calculated to stop a candidate from appearing at a planned venue is new this election cycle.  

But, the point of whether it is a fan board's say-so over whether gig dates are accepted are beyond the point of reason, in my view and attempt to destroy the concept that music is generally a place of neutrality.  (That would be contrary to music that was protest music  and used in conjunction with a type of rally.)  

This is different from a business accepting new business which I think this is.  What is a bad idea for you might not be a bad idea for those in charge.  You think it is a horrible move, but is is not up to you, or me.  

Trump could be elected President and they could play the inauguration.  It could happen.  The more he is attacked, it seems that his base of support rises, and that includes many disenfranchised Democrats, Republicans and Independents despite the temper tantrums all-around.  

You don't like Mike, so anything he would do would not please you.  Ton of bad PR?  Trump fans, numbering in the millions, according to votes cast for him, can be BB fans (or not.)  

Plenty of Hollywood (and others) are supporting Trump.  It is not politically correct but that is what many Americans are sick and tired of.  That "filter" of political correctness which is no longer convenient.  Playing a gig is not an endorsement until it is publicly announced.  When you go into the voting booth, no one knows whom you vote for.   Wink

To your point that a fan board is trying to tell Mike whether he should book gigs, that's nonsense. Nobody has suggested that at all. It's just one of countless straw man arguments.

Most of the rest of what you've written is just off-topic political rhetoric and unpaid political advertising (I'm at least trying to keep the topic to something related to the Beach Boys), so I would once again suggest moving all of this to the Sandbox where it can rightly be ignored (if one so chooses.)
Hey Jude - how is that any different than this theory that the BB "brand" will be damaged?  Who makes that call? 

Point is, did anyone look at the BB Touring Band Schedule before posters flipped out?  I don't think so. The focus of the article was the "number of sports figures" to speak at the convention and The Beach Boys were almost an afterthought included within the third party group funding of the music entertainment. 

We will see what happens.  The "good old boys" are not one bit happy.   

Now, Trump even denies tapping Mike Typson for convention. 

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/285917-trump-denies-tapping-mike-tyson-for-convention

Hope it copies.  Wink
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2016, 11:00:49 AM »


What sexist puts his daughter in charge of the family business if there are males available? 

Why is it impossible to think that nepotism can't take precedent over sexism sometimes?

Derp.
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« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2016, 11:09:03 AM »

This is getting dangerously close to Sandbox territory.
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« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2016, 11:28:15 AM »


What sexist puts his daughter in charge of the family business if there are males available? 

Why is it impossible to think that nepotism can't take precedent over sexism sometimes?

Derp.
Primogeniture.

Nepotism - has a couple of concepts.  One came from the church where there were (perhaps as I think of Thorn Birds  LOL) no offspring, and a nephew could be given preference.  Family businesses are often best run by families. 

She (Ivanka) appears to have more power than her brothers and that is unusual.   
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« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2016, 11:29:50 AM »

This is getting dangerously close to Sandbox territory.
Billy - it sounds like a good place.   But a little fact-checking on the date accuracy would have been helpful. 
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« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2016, 11:40:53 AM »


Most of the rest of what you've written is just off-topic political rhetoric and unpaid political advertising (I'm at least trying to keep the topic to something related to the Beach Boys), so I would once again suggest moving all of this to the Sandbox where it can rightly be ignored (if one so chooses.)
Hey Jude - how is that any different than this theory that the BB "brand" will be damaged?  Who makes that call?  

Point is, did anyone look at the BB Touring Band Schedule before posters flipped out?  I don't think so. The focus of the article was the "number of sports figures" to speak at the convention and The Beach Boys were almost an afterthought included within the third party group funding of the music entertainment.  

Regarding a discussion of how something damages the BB brand, that is on-topic because it's *about the Beach Boys.* Seems pretty simple to me.

Talking about "stop Trump" rallies and straw man arguments about free speech being stifled, those things are not about the Beach Boys. Again, pretty simple.

As for Mike's touring schedule, not that it matters, but many if not most private gigs (including corporate gigs, private parties, some political events) are *not* publicized or put on tour schedules. They aren't always submitted to Pollstar, and so on.

This discussion has obviously taken on a (potentially) more hypothetical format given the questionable veracity of reports that Mike is playing some sort of Trump-related event.

Also worth noting (or not) is that the published tour schedule doesn't preclude two shows in one day. The Beach Boys have done that over the years in the past, and I could easily see Mike going above and beyond in shoehorning a short show in support of Trump.

I'm curious, for those that find the idea of Mike doing a Trump-related gig not objectionable in the slightest and in fact something to be celebrated, why does it matter how plausible the exact timing of the reported gig is? What's the argument? That there shouldn't be any objection to Mike doing such a gig, or that the gig isn't going to happen and therefore objecting to the hypothetical is pointless?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 11:44:32 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2016, 12:18:42 PM »


Most of the rest of what you've written is just off-topic political rhetoric and unpaid political advertising (I'm at least trying to keep the topic to something related to the Beach Boys), so I would once again suggest moving all of this to the Sandbox where it can rightly be ignored (if one so chooses.)
Hey Jude - how is that any different than this theory that the BB "brand" will be damaged?  Who makes that call?  

Point is, did anyone look at the BB Touring Band Schedule before posters flipped out?  I don't think so. The focus of the article was the "number of sports figures" to speak at the convention and The Beach Boys were almost an afterthought included within the third party group funding of the music entertainment.  

Regarding a discussion of how something damages the BB brand, that is on-topic because it's *about the Beach Boys.* Seems pretty simple to me.

Talking about "stop Trump" rallies and straw man arguments about free speech being stifled, those things are not about the Beach Boys. Again, pretty simple.

As for Mike's touring schedule, not that it matters, but many if not most private gigs (including corporate gigs, private parties, some political events) are *not* publicized or put on tour schedules. They aren't always submitted to Pollstar, and so on.

This discussion has obviously taken on a (potentially) more hypothetical format given the questionable veracity of reports that Mike is playing some sort of Trump-related event.

Also worth noting (or not) is that the published tour schedule doesn't preclude two shows in one day. The Beach Boys have done that over the years in the past, and I could easily see Mike going above and beyond in shoehorning a short show in support of Trump.

I'm curious, for those that find the idea of Mike doing a Trump-related gig not objectionable in the slightest and in fact something to be celebrated, why does it matter how plausible the exact timing of the reported gig is? What's the argument? That there shouldn't be any objection to Mike doing such a gig, or that the gig isn't going to happen and therefore objecting to the hypothetical is pointless?
Hey Jude - actually it is related.  If the Touring Band is suggested to be playing at the RNC, there is a political viewpoint ascribed to the band.   And the viewpoint is purportedly expressed by accepting this hypothetical gig.  Already the Tyson appearance has been discredited in the same publication.  So it throws the cred out the window.

Yes, you are correct that a schedule does not preclude 2 shows, in 2 different places.  But as the info that was posted has already been challenged, I think it is moot.   Wink
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« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2016, 12:27:34 PM »

A couple of things:

1) Since a lot of people read just the subject, it *might* be helpful to change the subject to something more accurate like: "The Beach Boys reported to play The Creative Coalition’s Benefit Gala during Republican National Convention". I understand a number of forum members would like to continue the faux outrage, but I think we can all agree that the subject at this point is misleading at best.
2) I think despite the earlier denial, it is possible the Beach Boys may still play this event. The original article was poorly written and if someone asked their PR team if they were playing at the RNC convention or part of a coalition of athletes and bands coming together to support Trump, I could understand why they would deny that, yet still play this event.
3) For those who have skipped over my posts previously in this thread, The Creative Coalition’s Benefit Gala during the Republican National Convention is scheduled for July 20. Per The Beach Boys tour schedule, this is an open date between their July 19 gig in Washington, DC and their July 21 gig in Toledo, OH. Totally plausible for this to fit their touring schedule.
4) I would suggest everyone read more about the mission of the Creative Coalition here: http://thecreativecoalition.org/about/our-mission/

I'm certain my points will be ignored and the usual folks will continue fighting over hypotheticals, but this all started with a poorly written article that stated the bands mentioned were hired by third parties--not the Trump campaign or the RNC.
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« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2016, 12:30:06 PM »

Bottom line? The Beach Boys - and especially Mike, I would think - should be more risk averse when it comes to associating the brand with something/someone as polarizing as Trump. Mike's proven himself to be a very risk averse guy, probably one of the more risk averse guys of all his contemporaries. That's why I don't get why it would even remotely be considered worth it for the brand.
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« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2016, 12:39:34 PM »

A couple of things:

1) Since a lot of people read just the subject, it *might* be helpful to change the subject to something more accurate like: "The Beach Boys reported to play The Creative Coalition’s Benefit Gala during Republican National Convention". I understand a number of forum members would like to continue the faux outrage, but I think we can all agree that the subject at this point is misleading at best.
2) I think despite the earlier denial, it is possible the Beach Boys may still play this event. The original article was poorly written and if someone asked their PR team if they were playing at the RNC convention or part of a coalition of athletes and bands coming together to support Trump, I could understand why they would deny that, yet still play this event.
3) For those who have skipped over my posts previously in this thread, The Creative Coalition’s Benefit Gala during the Republican National Convention is scheduled for July 20. Per The Beach Boys tour schedule, this is an open date between their July 19 gig in Washington, DC and their July 21 gig in Toledo, OH. Totally plausible for this to fit their touring schedule.
4) I would suggest everyone read more about the mission of the Creative Coalition here: http://thecreativecoalition.org/about/our-mission/

I'm certain my points will be ignored and the usual folks will continue fighting over hypotheticals, but this all started with a poorly written article that stated the bands mentioned were hired by third parties--not the Trump campaign or the RNC.
MC - you are correct that there is a day in between on the schedule.  We will see what happens. 

But, regardless of political affiliation, bands should not have to tiptoe around what fans think as to whether they accept a gig.  Going back, they have worked on voter registration drives, all kinds of charity events, so I don't think it should matter.  And, Democrat or Republican or Independent, we are all Americans and they are America's Band. 

Thanks for the head's up.  I did just look at of the websites.  "The Creative Coalition, the 501 (c)(3) (non-profit) nonpartisan arm of the entertainment industry..." - that was part of an announcement  for Fergie performing at the DNC.   Thanks.  Wink
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« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2016, 12:40:41 PM »

FYI everybody, I wouldn't put too much into anything that filledeplage says. She's a birther who doesn't have the guts to admit the current President of the United States is a natural born citizen.
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Marty Castillo
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« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2016, 12:57:28 PM »

Bottom line? The Beach Boys - and especially Mike, I would think - should be more risk averse when it comes to associating the brand with something/someone as polarizing as Trump. Mike's proven himself to be a very risk averse guy, probably one of the more risk averse guys of all his contemporaries. That's why I don't get why it would even remotely be considered worth it for the brand.

The Rolling Thunder Rally in Washington, DC, was not a Trump event--Trump spoke at a well-established annual gathering for an advocacy group for POWs. Rolling Thunder is a nonpartisan group that was warmly greeted at the White House by President Obama in 2012.

The event that the Beach Boys were apparently linked to was the The Creative Coalition’s Benefit Gala during Republican National Convention. The Creative Coalition is also nonpartisan and will be holding a similar gala at the DNC convention. The link to Trump is weak at best. I understand that doesn't fit your agenda, but keeping pushing.

And for the record, I'm a long time Republican firmly in the #NeverTrump camp.
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« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2016, 01:05:56 PM »

What was Trump doing at an event for POWs?  I thought he only liked vets who weren't captured.  Roll Eyes

No matter the context, it's still a cringeworthy image.

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« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2016, 01:06:33 PM »


But, regardless of political affiliation, bands should not have to tiptoe around what fans think as to whether they accept a gig.  

Except in the case of if someone like David Duke invited The BBs to play a David Duke rally gig, right? Would the band taking such a gig be objectionable to you?   Wouldn't that be worth tiptoeing around?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 01:07:21 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2016, 01:12:35 PM »

What was Trump doing at an event for POWs?  I thought he only liked vets who weren't captured.  Roll Eyes

No matter the context, it's still a cringeworthy image.



No disagreement from me. What bothers me is when members post threads with click-bait titles like: "Mike Love appears at Trump Rally" or "Beach Boys playing for Trump". Both erroneous, both eliciting chest thumping at how despicable Mike Love is, only to be presented with actual facts that are ignored.
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« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2016, 01:14:55 PM »


But, regardless of political affiliation, bands should not have to tiptoe around what fans think as to whether they accept a gig.  

Except in the case of if someone like David Duke invited The BBs to play a David Duke rally gig, right? Would the band taking such a gig be objectionable to you?   Wouldn't that be worth tiptoeing around?
Godwin's Law peeping just around the corner. Sandbox this thread.
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« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2016, 01:18:45 PM »

This is getting dangerously close to Sandbox territory.
Billy - it sounds like a good place.   But a little fact-checking on the date accuracy would have been helpful.  

What in hell are you talking about? The majority of this thread is the usual political disagreeing that usually goes in the Sandbox . Why are you asking me to 'fact check ' 'date accuracy '?  I happen to believe that in this case the left wing and the right wing belong to the same damn bird, and if I wasn't a moderator I'd never even glance at this thread.
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« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2016, 01:21:48 PM »

f*** this,  moving this crap to the Sandbox where it belongs. I avoid these threads for a reason.
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« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2016, 01:25:15 PM »

Thanks Marty for once again bringing sense to all of the embarassing, knee-jerking, conclusion-jumping, and hypothetical agenda-izing.
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« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2016, 01:57:43 PM »


But, regardless of political affiliation, bands should not have to tiptoe around what fans think as to whether they accept a gig.  

Except in the case of if someone like David Duke invited The BBs to play a David Duke rally gig, right? Would the band taking such a gig be objectionable to you?   Wouldn't that be worth tiptoeing around?

Trump disavowed David Duke back in February.  We are talking about taking a gig at a convention leading to the Presidency and not a meeting of the KKK.   

http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-disavows-endorsement-of-white-supremacist-david-duke/article/20011301 
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« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2016, 01:59:20 PM »

FYI everybody, I wouldn't put too much into anything that filledeplage says. She's a birther who doesn't have the guts to admit the current President of the United States is a natural born citizen.

What does that mean?  Of course if his mother was a citizen, he would be one. 

Hillary Clinton raised that issue in 2008, and was not raised by me.
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« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2016, 02:04:00 PM »


But, regardless of political affiliation, bands should not have to tiptoe around what fans think as to whether they accept a gig.  

Except in the case of if someone like David Duke invited The BBs to play a David Duke rally gig, right? Would the band taking such a gig be objectionable to you?   Wouldn't that be worth tiptoeing around?

Trump disavowed David Duke back in February.  We are talking about taking a gig at a convention leading to the Presidency and not a meeting of the KKK.  

http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-disavows-endorsement-of-white-supremacist-david-duke/article/20011301  

Obviously, Century Deprived was just using Duke as a random example of a roundly-objectionable character to test the "Mike's band should book gigs with whomever will pay them" theory.

While Century Deprived will still surely not get an actual answer, I would suggest two alternate questions:

1. Just pick someone other than Duke, unrelated to Trump in any way, that is relatively equally objectionable, and re-pose the question.

2. Or try this: Would a *private* function hosted by David Duke, outside of any organization or group, be an acceptable booking for Mike's band as long as it was another paying gig for which Mike and BRI could collect fees?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 02:05:51 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2016, 02:15:08 PM »


But, regardless of political affiliation, bands should not have to tiptoe around what fans think as to whether they accept a gig.  

Except in the case of if someone like David Duke invited The BBs to play a David Duke rally gig, right? Would the band taking such a gig be objectionable to you?   Wouldn't that be worth tiptoeing around?

Trump disavowed David Duke back in February.  We are talking about taking a gig at a convention leading to the Presidency and not a meeting of the KKK.  

http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-disavows-endorsement-of-white-supremacist-david-duke/article/20011301  

Obviously, Century Deprived was just using Duke as a random example of a roundly-objectionable character to test the "Mike's band should book gigs with whomever will pay them" theory.

While Century Deprived will still surely not get an actual answer, I would suggest two alternate questions:

1. Just pick someone other than Duke, unrelated to Trump in any way, that is relatively equally objectionable, and re-pose the question.

2. Or try this: Would a *private* function hosted by David Duke, outside of any organization or group, be an acceptable booking for Mike's band as long as it was another paying gig for which Mike and BRI could collect fees?
Hey Jude - are you trying to create an equivalency between Donald Trump, who is a businessman, who graduated from Wharton, with David Duke, the head of the KKK?  

The issue is hate directed at Trump who has won enough votes and delegates to go to the RNC.   We will see what happens in November.  

Can't we be patient and wait for what the American voters to decide?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 02:28:03 PM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2016, 02:47:59 PM »


But, regardless of political affiliation, bands should not have to tiptoe around what fans think as to whether they accept a gig.  

Except in the case of if someone like David Duke invited The BBs to play a David Duke rally gig, right? Would the band taking such a gig be objectionable to you?   Wouldn't that be worth tiptoeing around?

Trump disavowed David Duke back in February.  We are talking about taking a gig at a convention leading to the Presidency and not a meeting of the KKK.  

http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-disavows-endorsement-of-white-supremacist-david-duke/article/20011301  

Obviously, Century Deprived was just using Duke as a random example of a roundly-objectionable character to test the "Mike's band should book gigs with whomever will pay them" theory.

While Century Deprived will still surely not get an actual answer, I would suggest two alternate questions:

1. Just pick someone other than Duke, unrelated to Trump in any way, that is relatively equally objectionable, and re-pose the question.

2. Or try this: Would a *private* function hosted by David Duke, outside of any organization or group, be an acceptable booking for Mike's band as long as it was another paying gig for which Mike and BRI could collect fees?
Hey Jude - are you trying to create an equivalency between Donald Trump, who is a businessman, who graduated from Wharton, with David Duke, the head of the KKK?  

The issue is hate directed at Trump who has won enough votes and delegates to go to the RNC.   We will see what happens in November.  

Can't we be patient and wait for what the American voters to decide?

FDP, can you kindly answer my hypothetical scenario with your honest answer that you would feel in your heart, where Duke is running for president and hypothetically asks Mike and The BBs to play a Duke rally. Does that hypothetical scenario bother you?

Mind you, I don't personally equate Duke to Trump.  I just think it's good to know that you, as well as most anybody, would have some level at which they'd actually draw a line and say that yes, in such a hypothetical situation, it would probably be a terrible move to play such an event. Is that something you can just say? I'll have no more questions about the matter if you would just be kind enough to answer that question... not trying to get into a debate of Trump vs. Duke.
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