The future of the Smiley Smile message board

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Hello, and happy Sunday to all!

I'm posting today to start a conversation regarding the future of this message board.

The current cost to host the board, on the current HostGator server, is more than I can continue to handle, especially given the limited usage of the board.

So, as I see it, there are some options to choose from:

1. Cancel the hosting and end the board completely.  NOT a choice I want to make.
2. Move the current board to less expensive hosting, possibly remaining with HostGator.  This is possible, though, there's no guarantee this old board will function on a new server.
3. Create a new message board on a new server, and eliminate this board.  NOT a choice I want to make, given the history of this board.
4. Create a new message board on a new server, and move this board to the server, making it read only.  Like choice #2, this require several steps, if even possible.

Please reply with your thoughts and ideas, including any assistance you can offer. 

Thank you!

[Julia]

Well, thanks for letting us know what was going on, Charles. That's more than the PetSounds forum "manager/host" did and I'm still salty about some of the detailed posts I lost when that unexpectedly went down. I wasn't there for the fall of SmileShop but in the process of combing the Internet Archive and this site for information last summer, I learned that forum's dissolution was also a messy process.

It was pretty obvious the site wasn't long for the world when I noticed how often it'd be down for hours or days at a time, so I already took the liberty of backing up what I thought were some of the more interesting discussions (mostly SMiLE related, of course). It's FAR from comprehensive but I'm only one person and despite what my lengthy posts may imply, I do have a life outside my obsession. I wanted to mirror SmileySmile on the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine but it didn't seem compatible with this site's old architecture. Every time I tried, I got an error message, but maybe I was doing something wrong and someone else would have more luck. So, I opted to use the "print to pdf" function of my web browser and shared them on Google Drive and Dropbox. Imperfect solution but it's something.

Since it's relevant to this conversation, I'll quote my post about that here, with still-functioning links included. Anyone who wants to take the opportunity to pick up where I left off can feel free to see what I saved and go from there (if it's SMiLE related and more than a small handful of posts, or including even one "worthwhile" post of info or well-written analysis, I probably got it).

I finished organizing my archive of the Smiley Smile forum--FAR from comprehensive of course, Im only one person and this janky old site was impervious to my attempts at using the Wayback Machine or other conventional means. (Someone else can take a crack at it, by all means.) I just used the search function to look up various names associated with SMiLE, my primary interest, and used the "print to pdf" function on my web browser. I looked up all the names of the Vosse Posse, the track names, and whatever else came to mind. Im positive I missed stuff, but it is what it is--Im only one person with too much time on my hands.

The download comes in one master folder, sub-divided into 15 topics related to SMiLE (included a folder for unrelated stuff). It's about 1100 webpages in ~410 threads. The folder names are editorialized, the pdf file names are ripped from the thread titles. Anyone else interesting in preserving what we can of this site can easily catalogue what I've done and continue on with no trouble. Maybe this is silly but Im sentimental about this place--back when I was first interested in SMiLE it was BY FAR the best place to get answers, see like-minded people and Im not gonna let some rude old farts ruin that for me. The old Smile Shop forums are completely lost media except one single conversation about Revolver vs Rubber Soul--I didn't want to see that happen here. And while the site has been stable for awhile, there was a period there where it seemed like it could go dark at any time--pages wouldn't load for hours at a time and that could easily happen again.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wZ1kFrxfb6Jq1niOUt-jvZ8TU_WIFGSd?usp=drive_link
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/x89rn6s750ys12f52rehj/AEsBEcNM5MxVqEoTKLhDZPA?rlkey=iqex8tmx8ezx81k4z3i39atfa&st=e70miiih&dl=0

My recent ongoing SMiLE deep dive will eventually be backed up by the blog in my signature (after I rewrite it for a more general audience and trim down some of the repetitive theorizing) or, if possible, published somewhere else with an announcement on my blog. When I made those backups originally that thread was on page 5, so I added pdfs of the next four pages, they should work on the same links. Also I don't know if I had found the "Murry's eight page letter to Brian" thread when I first posted those links (they're in a different folder in my PC) so I added them to the package as well just in case. That's my contribution to any archival efforts. Here they are again: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wZ1kFrxfb6Jq1niOUt-jvZ8TU_WIFGSd?usp=drive_link
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/x89rn6s750ys12f52rehj/AEsBEcNM5MxVqEoTKLhDZPA?rlkey=iqex8tmx8ezx81k4z3i39atfa&st=e70miiih&dl=0

To answer your question, Charles, I vote option 2 then 4 if they're possible, like you said. The value of this board is in its 10+ years of solid discussions that should not be lost if it can be prevented. This site was THE place to go for info on the band and a lot of its conversations are still better than anything that's replaced it (that other place, reddit, discord, etc). I think if we surrender that, we lose a ton of BB history. At the same time, I don't think starting a new forum (option 3) from scratch is really worth it considering the community seems pretty stagnant, unfortunately. I think people keep coming here to access the invaluable past info as well as inertia and starting a new forum from the ground up would be a stillborn. But that's just one person's opinion.

However things go, despite some ups and downs, it's been a pleasure to participate in this forum. I met some people I now consider friends, learned a lot and had fun offering my own contributions. If we go our own ways, I wish everyone well. 

[JK]

To answer your question, Charles, I vote option 2 then 4 if they're possible, like you said. The value of this board is in its 10+ years of solid discussions that should not be lost if it can be prevented. This site was THE place to go for info on the band and a lot of its conversations are still better than anything that's replaced it (that other place, reddit, discord, etc). I think if we surrender that, we lose a ton of BB history. At the same time, I don't think starting a new forum (option 3) from scratch is really worth it considering the community seems pretty stagnant, unfortunately. I think people keep coming here to access the invaluable past info as well as inertia and starting a new forum from the ground up would be a stillborn. But that's just one person's opinion.

I'm with you on this, J. I'd say the read-only option makes the most sense to me. At the end of the day it's all about saving information. I'm sure even those who have had problems with this forum would hate to see it go the way of PSF.

[Julia]

Im bumping this thread again so people see it.

To get official confirmation the board as we know it will be dead soon encouraged me to take a "last" look around, particularly the book/album/film review sections which I didn't archive before. I thought I'd contribute to some of those threads as I backed them up. I haven't finished the process yet but as I do I will update those same two dropbox and google drive links with archives of those threads. I haven't saved EVERY poll/review/rank thread there is...just the ones that interested me. Again, sorry for the gaps but I'm just one person and I think it's fair to say I'm doing more to try to save some of the forum than anyone else sans Charles with his efforts to migrate the whole thing to a new server.

Part of me wonders if this isn't all a wasted effort on my part if the board can be moved wholesale and/or if anyone but me even cares about these old conversations...but just in case, eh? I admit I get a kick out of being one of the last active users here, and getting the last word on some of these discussions before preserving them for posterity  Needless to say, I'll post the links to the archive on my blog eventually (immediately, if SmileySmile suddenly goes down) so if you miss your chance to grab a personal copy, just remember the name thecarbonfreeze.com Truly it is the end of an era...

[JK]

You're an angel, J. And, you have the technology at your fingertips. I wouldn't know how, let alone where, to start backing stuff up.

I've linked this thread in my signature at EH. It's the least I can do. I'll replace it with your blog if this forum disappears completely.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Part of me wonders if this isn't all a wasted effort on my part if the board can be moved wholesale and/or if anyone but me even cares about these old conversations...but just in case, eh? I admit I get a kick out of being one of the last active users here, and getting the last word on some of these discussions before preserving them for posterity  Needless to say, I'll post the links to the archive on my blog eventually (immediately, if SmileySmile suddenly goes down) so if you miss your chance to grab a personal copy, just remember the name thecarbonfreeze.com Truly it is the end of an era...

No, nothing you are doing is "wasted effort".  You've actually created a new option: save the important parts, as opposed to trying to save everything.  It would even be possible to redirect smileysmile.net to your site.  Anything is possible. 

[Emdeeh]

There's a lot of knowledge and good research on this board. I'd like to see it preserved in some format, even if a new board replaces it.

[WordRow«Rotator]

Of the four optons mentioned, I'm voting for options #2 into # 4 !

Especially I want to have the "memorial BriANAdrome" site from THE SANDBOX section preserved for ever-after~ even as a "read only" Brian Wilson tribute....
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    ComicList, it's "ILK"? ....        i'm OK !«

THANX FOR EVERYTHING SO FAR, "CHUCK" !

[Julia]

No, nothing you are doing is "wasted effort".  You've actually created a new option: save the important parts, as opposed to trying to save everything.  It would even be possible to redirect smileysmile.net to your site.  Anything is possible. 

You're an angel, J. And, you have the technology at your fingertips. I wouldn't know how, let alone where, to start backing stuff up.

I've linked this thread in my signature at EH. It's the least I can do. I'll replace it with your blog if this forum disappears completely.

Thanks guys. I think I've got the last of what I'm willing to do and updated those links with a new sub-folder called "NEW ADDITIONS" with ~650 additional pages I've archived over the last few days. The old links should include all this, let me know if they don't otherwise I'll assume it's all accessible. Also here's a different link to my collection of SMiLE shop essays and other miscellaneous SMiLE info: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/0d409niazc0gygoqpsg47/AA4YPMjsPXrBqrKXZFOAZgk?rlkey=w17al1i7li6dyaps2ut8x7f40&st=dubwh1ny&dl=0

These new uploads represent the majority of the review/ranking/poll threads (including books) and some random General On Topic threads I stumbled upon lately. The SMiLE Boxset subforum is completely saved as I recall. I can't say if I got all the SMiLE threads or any other subtopic because the search function is sorta broken and sometimes turns up different threads I never saw before with a new search. For example, I searched Bambu/Bamboo months ago but only last night did the search function bring up a cool thread about alt sequences. I got some of the Sandbox threads I thought were interesting.

I haven't touched the "Welcome To..." , "General Music" , "General Entertainment" , "Smiley Smilers Who Make Music" , "Concert Reviews" or "Beach Boy Media" subforums. The "Ask the Honored Guests" and "Reference Threads" child forums are also totally unaccounted for. If anyone wants somewhere to start.

This thread also might be of some interest to someone but I'm not sure if my method would be the best way to save it: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10376.300.html

I'm gonna go ahead and say I did my part and someone else can carry on from there if I missed anything important. Good luck to anyone dedicated enough to pick up where I left off.

[JK]

I haven't touched the "Welcome To..." , "General Music" , "General Entertainment" , "Smiley Smilers Who Make Music" , "Concert Reviews" or "Beach Boy Media" subforums. The "Ask the Honored Guests" and "Reference Threads" child forums are also totally unaccounted for. If anyone wants somewhere to start.

I'm gonna go ahead and say I did my part and someone else can carry on from there if I missed anything important. Good luck to anyone dedicated enough to pick up where I left off.

Julia, I'd say you did your part and then some!! Talk about a labour of love! And it's looks to me as though it's all secure, although it would be gratifying if others would corroborate this. (Where is everyone?) The six subforums you list are definitely of lesser interest. I think you could say the same about the two child forums. There have been several highly informative books since then, to say nothing of the ongoing sessionography and other online projects.       

Charles, I think it's important that if the forum is taken down, that everyone has at least a few days' grace to save anything dear to them to their hard disks. It's frustrating when stuff vanishes overnight, which regrettably happens from time to time.

[Julia]

I haven't touched the "Welcome To..." , "General Music" , "General Entertainment" , "Smiley Smilers Who Make Music" , "Concert Reviews" or "Beach Boy Media" subforums. The "Ask the Honored Guests" and "Reference Threads" child forums are also totally unaccounted for. If anyone wants somewhere to start.

I'm gonna go ahead and say I did my part and someone else can carry on from there if I missed anything important. Good luck to anyone dedicated enough to pick up where I left off.

Julia, I'd say you did your part and then some!! Talk about a labour of love! And it's looks to me as though it's all secure, although it would be gratifying if others would corroborate this. (Where is everyone?) The six subforums you list are definitely of lesser interest. I think you could say the same about the two child forums. There have been several highly informative books since then, to say nothing of the ongoing sessionography and other online projects.       

Charles, I think it's important that if the forum is taken down, that everyone has at least a few days' grace to save anything dear to them to their hard disks. It's frustrating when stuff vanishes overnight, which regrettably happens from time to time.

Unfortunately, I just can't stay away. I was thinking about that psychedelic post I made yesterday and realized I never searched for "psychedelics" and "acid" and "LSD" so I did that and found a few other threads that were both short yet interesting enough for me to take the time to save them. "Psychedelic" brought up like 41 pages of results and the thought of spending another day sifting through that volume of stuff was too daunting to follow through with. Also I found some dozen-page-long posts like "the history of mike's reputation" that I just wasn't in the mood to commit to. All the same, I just added 25 additional pages worth of posts to those two archival links. You're welcome.

Im very surprised by the lack of response to this news too, JK. I thought for sure the other place wouldn't miss the opportunity to gloat about outlasting their "competition" as they seemed to do any other time the forum went dark in the past. I also think it's shocking that people are responding to some of my recent posts but don't seem to have noticed or cared enough to weigh in here, to the news the whole freaking board is going down soon. I know this site was never the same after 2015~2016 with the NPP drama, personal squabbles and ensuing "great schism" but c'mon everybody! This place has more history than any other BB site, I'd reckon. It's the successor to the SmileShop which (a few essays aside) vanished without a trace. There were respected insiders and primary witnesses who took the time to answer fan questions the official books/docs/interviews were happy to leave open-ended. If I say so myself, I facilitated a long-overdue, organized source-by-source examination of SMiLE that could (arguably did) lead to a final "best we can do" answer to the great mystery. (This was sorely needed, in my opinion, after decades of people trading half-remembered, not-cited hearsay that was fruitlessly going in circles--along with gatekeepers pretending some of the books said things which they absolutely don't.) There's 20 odd years of quality info here, that people poured hours of their lives into...you'd think there'd be more of a reaction to its possible dissolution.

As an amateur archivalist and lost media buff, it always saddens me how careless people are with the preservation of information. From the actual SMiLE tapes to the tomes of discussion they spawned, very few people care about things until they're long gone. 

[18thofMay]

How much is it per year?