The Observer: It’s Time to Destroy ‘the Legend of Brian Wilson’

[Emily]

Apart from the issues of accuracy or the way opinions were stated, it seemed to me a lot of the background that fans might read into surrounding this article is how the author basically did the same thing last summer with another article that got mostly negative reactions, if not outright hostility. As Yogi Berra said, it's like deja vu all over again.

Look at the timing. Last summer Brian Wilson was about a month or two into a tour of the US, his new album had just come out in the spring, and Love And Mercy was in theaters and getting positive reviews. People outside the hardcore fans like those on this board and others were talking about Brian Wilson and his music again.

Then that article showed up, with almost the same focus. many fans who commented also seemed to feel it was an article to boost Mike and his touring band's profile, by what fans thought was trying to knock Brian Wilson down a few pegs. What are the terms..."set the record straight", "put things into perspective", etc?

Now almost a year later, Brian is again getting press coverage with the Pet Sounds tour, and the *same* author shows up yet again, with what looks like the same template for another article: Try to give readers points on why Brian Wilson should be knocked down a few pegs in terms of his reputation and legacy, and get in a few plugs and praise for Mike and his touring band.

Deja vu, all over again. Even if there is the slightest chance it is pure coincidence, if people look at the timing of both articles, they would at least raise an eyebrow and think it's odd for history to repeat itself with close to the same results.

I've yet to hear even any of Mike's biggest apologists respond to the question of what they would think Mike's opinion of the new article might be, and if it seems logical that he'd be anything but pleased by its existence. 

Please don't bait or create controversy for a month or so. Please.

I wish such an appeal had been made to the article's author both last summer and before publishing his more recent screed. fans can react however they please, that's what the forum is for.

Of course they can react as they please. I was just asking. I won't again.

[CenturyDeprived]

Apart from the issues of accuracy or the way opinions were stated, it seemed to me a lot of the background that fans might read into surrounding this article is how the author basically did the same thing last summer with another article that got mostly negative reactions, if not outright hostility. As Yogi Berra said, it's like deja vu all over again.

Look at the timing. Last summer Brian Wilson was about a month or two into a tour of the US, his new album had just come out in the spring, and Love And Mercy was in theaters and getting positive reviews. People outside the hardcore fans like those on this board and others were talking about Brian Wilson and his music again.

Then that article showed up, with almost the same focus. many fans who commented also seemed to feel it was an article to boost Mike and his touring band's profile, by what fans thought was trying to knock Brian Wilson down a few pegs. What are the terms..."set the record straight", "put things into perspective", etc?

Now almost a year later, Brian is again getting press coverage with the Pet Sounds tour, and the *same* author shows up yet again, with what looks like the same template for another article: Try to give readers points on why Brian Wilson should be knocked down a few pegs in terms of his reputation and legacy, and get in a few plugs and praise for Mike and his touring band.

Deja vu, all over again. Even if there is the slightest chance it is pure coincidence, if people look at the timing of both articles, they would at least raise an eyebrow and think it's odd for history to repeat itself with close to the same results.

I've yet to hear even any of Mike's biggest apologists respond to the question of what they would think Mike's opinion of the new article might be, and if it seems logical that he'd be anything but pleased by its existence.  

Please don't bait or create controversy for a month or so. Please.

You're right, Emily. And I say that honestly, not sarcastically. I'll try. I suppose my response may have been baiting, but I was trying to prove a point, motivated by the fact that I am deeply put off by the article, and perhaps I foolishly hope that railing against articles like this - which are so negative and hate-inducing - might make articles of this sort not continue to get traction to get published in the future. This article is the type of drivel I could see being written and published on someone's blog... but to see it get such high placement on the internet as to be present on Yahoo's main page (if Yahoo's algorithm decides the reader is a BB fan)... it's terrible. It's one thing to discuss stuff on a message board, but quite another for an article like this to be presented as a proper news/opinion piece of some sort. The flipside is that even though I have issues with Mike, I would not like to see the Man Vs. Clown page be promoted as a "legit" news article by a news source like Yahoo either.

[guitarfool2002]

The point was the article itself and its author should be receiving the criticism and calls for civility especially since the exact same author did the exact same thing a year ago under similar circumstances, and played into all of the trigger issues that can cause arguments among the fans. It succeeded in doing exactly that in both cases. If anyone is to blame it's whoever was behind the articles, not the fans for reacting to it and commenting. We're putting money into that publication's coffers every time it gets a click on the link, the fans can say whatever they want about it.

[Emily]

I totally take your point, CD, and have no problem with your post in typical (is there such a thing?) times.
But GF is right too. I'm no mod and must let people post as they will.
Thank you for your considerate response and for not taking offense.

[Lee Marshall]

Look at the timing.

Deja vu, all over again. Even if there is the slightest chance it is pure coincidence, if people look at the timing of both articles, they would at least raise an eyebrow and think it's odd for history to repeat itself with close to the same results.

I guess the final word on all of this is the fact that Brian Wilson paints originals.  Mike love paints lovely reproductions.  They're both painting... ... ...and it's there that the similarity forks.
 So...again...the paint by numbers writer of the fiction which prompted this discussion can fork off too.

[Debbie KL]

Look at the timing.

Deja vu, all over again. Even if there is the slightest chance it is pure coincidence, if people look at the timing of both articles, they would at least raise an eyebrow and think it's odd for history to repeat itself with close to the same results.

I guess the final word on all of this is the fact that Brian Wilson paints originals.  Mike love paints lovely reproductions.  They're both painting... ... ...and it's there that the similarity forks.
 So...again...the paint by numbers writer of the fiction which prompted this discussion can fork off too.

You just made my day, AddSome - the writer desperately needs to fork off.  I keep repeating that I won't click on a link for the article, based on the fact that it is click-bait for angry fans.  May he find another occupation.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Mr. Manning, what Disney Boy (1985) said is anything but "sensible" post. Nobody forced Mr. Lee to apologize, he had an option not to. DB's post is uber-emotional overreaction which didn't help any. What he doesn't understand is that people didn't merely complain about OregonRiverRider - his private information was passed and, as I read it, lies about some of it. It's not OK.

Let's not feel bad for his ban. Your post about moderators not doing their job should be in the Sandbox thread. Not sure why you raise it here.

Well, I mentioned it here cos "here" is where that particular conversation has been taking place for a while now.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the other matters. I've missed ORR's beef about what went on in PMs and have no wish to know - or to attempt to second-guess - the detail.

Range Rover has had a beef with me for about two years over something or other, can't remember what, hence her negative reaction to you describing my post as sensible. That's all that is... I'm reminded of that film where someone goes to work in an insane asylum and they very gradually start to realize that the patients have taken over and are running the place! Pet Sounds Forum, here I come...

[Needleinthehay]

Have any of you ever met Ric Ocasek or Todd Rundgren,

Can't speak for certain for the rest of the article but my uncle has been in ringos band with todd rundgren for the last 4 years, touring frequently with him and has had nothing but nice things to say about him. In fact, ringo usually changes his "all-starr" band every 2 years, but he loves this group of musicians so much he's kept them for 4 years & counting, something hes never done in the last 30 years....b/c all the guys in the band are great guys, not assholes, including todd....
just pointing out this person, at least with that fact, probably doesnt know what theyre talking about.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Have any of you ever met Ric Ocasek or Todd Rundgren,

Can't speak for certain for the rest of the article but my uncle has been in ringos band with todd rundgren for the last 4 years, touring frequently with him and has had nothing but nice things to say about him. In fact, ringo usually changes his "all-starr" band every 2 years, but he loves this group of musicians so much he's kept them for 4 years & counting, something hes never done in the last 30 years....b/c all the guys in the band are great guys, not assholes, including todd....
just pointing out this person, at least with that fact, probably doesnt know what theyre talking about.

Who's your uncle?  I saw that lineup twice.  They put on a great show!

[Emily]

I've met Ric Ocasek a few times. Seemed nice enough, if a bit withdrawn and quirky.

[Needleinthehay]

Who's your uncle?  I saw that lineup twice.  They put on a great show!

The guy from mr. mister, richard page

Yeah, they put on a great show....seen it a few times.....especially lukather on guitar is amazing

[guitarfool2002]

Who's your uncle?  I saw that lineup twice.  They put on a great show!

The guy from mr. mister, richard page

Yeah, they put on a great show....seen it a few times.....especially lukather on guitar is amazing

Steve Lukather is one of my favorite guitarists. Like Hal Blaine and Joe Osborn in the 60's & 70's, I found out eventually that many of my favorite guitar parts of the 80's were played by Steve Lukather! I understand Ringo's next album will feature quite a few songs that Lukather wrote, as well as one written with Van Dyke Parks!

[thorgil]

I've met Ric Ocasek a few times. Seemed nice enough, if a bit withdrawn and quirky.

Your description reminds me of someone...

[HeyJude]

Have any of you ever met Ric Ocasek or Todd Rundgren,

Can't speak for certain for the rest of the article but my uncle has been in ringos band with todd rundgren for the last 4 years, touring frequently with him and has had nothing but nice things to say about him. In fact, ringo usually changes his "all-starr" band every 2 years, but he loves this group of musicians so much he's kept them for 4 years & counting, something hes never done in the last 30 years....b/c all the guys in the band are great guys, not assholes, including todd....
just pointing out this person, at least with that fact, probably doesnt know what theyre talking about.

I can't imagine Todd Rundgren isn't a nice guy to his colleagues, especially in Ringo's band. Ringo doesn't put up with bulls**t in his band (ask Dave Mason who was booted during rehearsals in 1997).

But Rundgren certainly has a reputation, and I've seen some interviews where one could understandably see his personality as disagreeable a bit. His interviews when he did "The New Cars" were refreshingly honest but also disappointing, as he basically admitted it was a paycheck situation. There are also stories all the way back to his early days as a producer; Badfinger had a very mixed impression of him for instance.

I saw every Ringo tour between 1997 and 2008 or so, but haven't checked back in precisely *because* he hasn't changed the band. That was always the whole point of his "All Starr" band, to change it up from tour to tour. A few holdovers were cool, or returning guys from older tours. But he has been reusing the exact same band for numerous tours now.

One of my favorite things about Ringo's band was always getting into new artists. I picked up stuff from people like Howard Jones, Colin Hay, got back into Frampton and Bruce after not having paid a ton of attention for a little while, learned the genius of Gary Brooker, learned that Sheila E. is a freaking amazing drummer, and so on. Where else but in Ringo's band would you see Greg Lake do "Karn Evil 9" with Howard Jones and Sheila E. as a three-piece?

To bring it back to the BBs, I always thought Al Jardine would have been great as a second guitarist in Ringo's band. They would definitely need a primary guitarist, a Frampton or Billy Squier or Lukather, and Al would be there primarily to add the hits. Back in the day, Carl Wilson would have also been great in Ringo's band. I would think Carl would have dug it too, playing in Ringo's band with Joe Walsh and Billy Preston, etc.

[thorgil]

Karn Evil 9? I have to check that.

[guitarfool2002]

Speaking of Howard Jones, he just got to meet Brian backstage at the Brooklyn gig last weekend, and he has been doing a beautiful cover of God Only Knows this past year at his solo piano/voice gigs. Well worth checking out. Howard was just sitting in with The Roots on Fallon's show this week too.

[Lonely Summer]

Have any of you ever met Ric Ocasek or Todd Rundgren,

Can't speak for certain for the rest of the article but my uncle has been in ringos band with todd rundgren for the last 4 years, touring frequently with him and has had nothing but nice things to say about him. In fact, ringo usually changes his "all-starr" band every 2 years, but he loves this group of musicians so much he's kept them for 4 years & counting, something hes never done in the last 30 years....b/c all the guys in the band are great guys, not assholes, including todd....
just pointing out this person, at least with that fact, probably doesnt know what theyre talking about.

I can't imagine Todd Rundgren isn't a nice guy to his colleagues, especially in Ringo's band. Ringo doesn't put up with bulls**t in his band (ask Dave Mason who was booted during rehearsals in 1997).

But Rundgren certainly has a reputation, and I've seen some interviews where one could understandably see his personality as disagreeable a bit. His interviews when he did "The New Cars" were refreshingly honest but also disappointing, as he basically admitted it was a paycheck situation. There are also stories all the way back to his early days as a producer; Badfinger had a very mixed impression of him for instance.

I saw every Ringo tour between 1997 and 2008 or so, but haven't checked back in precisely *because* he hasn't changed the band. That was always the whole point of his "All Starr" band, to change it up from tour to tour. A few holdovers were cool, or returning guys from older tours. But he has been reusing the exact same band for numerous tours now.

One of my favorite things about Ringo's band was always getting into new artists. I picked up stuff from people like Howard Jones, Colin Hay, got back into Frampton and Bruce after not having paid a ton of attention for a little while, learned the genius of Gary Brooker, learned that Sheila E. is a freaking amazing drummer, and so on. Where else but in Ringo's band would you see Greg Lake do "Karn Evil 9" with Howard Jones and Sheila E. as a three-piece?

To bring it back to the BBs, I always thought Al Jardine would have been great as a second guitarist in Ringo's band. They would definitely need a primary guitarist, a Frampton or Billy Squier or Lukather, and Al would be there primarily to add the hits. Back in the day, Carl Wilson would have also been great in Ringo's band. I would think Carl would have dug it too, playing in Ringo's band with Joe Walsh and Billy Preston, etc.

I have never gone to an All-Starrs concert; when I wanted to see them, they didn't play in my area. It's been ages, though, since Ringo's had a lineup I was really interested in. What I would have paid good money for, though, was a Ringo and the Roundheads concert. They did VH1 Storytellers back in 1998, and sounded great. I can see why Ringo doesn't tour like that, though - he doesn't want to be singing a whole show when he is really a drummer first, a singer, second. So it makes sense for him to tour with other guys that have hits of their own to sing. But I thought the Roundheads, with Mark Hudson, rocked better than any of the All-Starr lineups. Really wish I could have seen him when he had guys like Billy Preston, Levon Helm, Rick Danko, Felix Cavaliere, Dave Edmunds, Timothy Schmit, Randy Bachman, John Entwhistle and Burton Cummings in the band.

[Robbie Mac]

Karn Evil 9? I have to check that.

I saw that tour live too. It was incredible.

[thorgil]

Just listened to it, fabulous live rendition, with Greg in very good voice!