The Observer: It’s Time to Destroy ‘the Legend of Brian Wilson’

[SurfRiderHawaii]

No. You're wrong. He was doing what he always does - bullies and shouts louder and hides behind his keyboard. Others may take it. I won't. Sorry!

Should he instead have sent other board members a bunch of personal attacks hidden in PM as has been done before? Well, you actually got some of them Iain, maybe you can speak to that. If the attacks came from impeccable sources, we'd have to believe them, right?

Literally no idea what that means. Try again and fill in the missing words

Here's the thing. You're a mod. And you're paranoid. And out of control. And you should retire.

There. I said what several people are thinking and are too scared to say.

Peace.

Ridiculous!

[guitarfool2002]

No. You're wrong. He was doing what he always does - bullies and shouts louder and hides behind his keyboard. Others may take it. I won't. Sorry!

Should he instead have sent other board members a bunch of personal attacks hidden in PM as has been done before? Well, you actually got some of them Iain, maybe you can speak to that. If the attacks came from impeccable sources, we'd have to believe them, right?

Literally no idea what that means. Try again and fill in the missing words

Here's the thing. You're a mod. And you're paranoid. And out of control. And you should retire.

There. I said what several people are thinking and are too scared to say.

Peace.

You volunteered the information about receiving PM's about other board members, so would you step up and reveal some of these impeccable sources which told you about this or any other poster?

Sounds like exactly the kind of bullshit that has been ripping this place apart beneath the surface for years. And as such, worthy of the sources doing it.

But I guess noted historians, writers, and radio commentators have more free time to pass gossip and dirt about posters on messages boards than they must have devoted to talking about the music.

It's not paranoid if it's true. And if anyone should know, Iain, just because an angry and vocal mob says something to remove someone they don't agree with, it doesn't mean they're telling the truth.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

IainLee, please try not to antagonate.

*antagonise

And you're joking right? I know there's a queue of people waiting to boot me off this forum because I wrote an article saying I liked the lead singer of my second favourite band.

This is a place to celebrate beauty and light and a handful of people bring nothing but darkness and shame into what should be a beautiful place.

Guys. I know my days here are numbered. That's cool. But if you're gonna defend that troll...

And mate, I have no idea who Chuck is. But then, I would say that wouldn't I?

Toodle pip. I'm off to listen to Kokomo

X

I'm not joking. There's a lot of turmoil here just now, of which you may not be aware, but your posts are prodding exactly at the sources of that turmoil. I think it's a good time for people to not try to push people's buttons and be controversial but to try a little extra much to be accommodating. And I find it very hard to believe that you don't know that your last few posts are antagonistic.
I also think that ORR should not have reacted as strongly as he did to your first post. But you are very much crossing a line.

*and I hope you don't think you were correcting my spelling.

Hang on.

I wrote I enjoyed the piece (never said I agreed with it. I liked reading it)

He replied

'I bet you did. Someone has come up with a bigger turd than your recent article.'

And I'm being antagonistic?

No. You're wrong. He was doing what he always does - bullies and shouts louder and hides behind his keyboard. Others may take it. I won't. Sorry!

Sorry "mate" if you think me calling your article a turd "bullies and shouts louder" . As a journalist, you are very thin skinned. If you can't make stand the heat.......

It wasn't a personal attack on you but you made it one on me. And in doing so, you exposed the practice of a now banned member of PM smear campaigns.

ORR, please stop as well. Can everyone just stop?

Agreed...this is so damn childish.

Next swipe after this response will be met with consequences

[guitarfool2002]

Iain volunteered the information about receiving PM's about other board members that have obviously shaped his opinions of them, perhaps if that had not happened in the first place none of this would have come up.

It shows the damage that was done by those who engaged in this crap and hid it in private messages. Perhaps the ultimate blame rests yet again on those who were using the PM system for those efforts rather than coming here to talk music. I don't fault someone for being upset when it was publicly revealed that they were the subject of messages being sent around in an effort to discredit or even insult them to other members, and finding out about it either months or years after the fact via a public revelation.

[Emily]

Iain volunteered the information about receiving PM's about other board members that have obviously shaped his opinions of them, perhaps if that had not happened in the first place none of this would have come up.

It shows the damage that was done by those who engaged in this crap and hid it in private messages. Perhaps the ultimate blame rests yet again on those who were using the PM system for those efforts rather than coming here to talk music. I don't fault someone for being upset when it was publicly revealed that they were the subject of messages being sent around in an effort to discredit or even insult them to other members, and finding out about it either months or years after the fact via a public revelation.

I don't fault anyone for being upset either but it seems to me to be a time for holding in our feelings and being as calm and polite as possible. And for trying to post posts that you know won't stir the pot. Which Mr. Lee did, but I've spoken with him and he's agreed not to post controversial posts for a 'calming period', which was music to my ears. I wish everyone could do the same. Can everyone please try to do that? Even if it means silence for a bit?

[guitarfool2002]

Iain volunteered the information about receiving PM's about other board members that have obviously shaped his opinions of them, perhaps if that had not happened in the first place none of this would have come up.

It shows the damage that was done by those who engaged in this crap and hid it in private messages. Perhaps the ultimate blame rests yet again on those who were using the PM system for those efforts rather than coming here to talk music. I don't fault someone for being upset when it was publicly revealed that they were the subject of messages being sent around in an effort to discredit or even insult them to other members, and finding out about it either months or years after the fact via a public revelation.

I don't fault anyone for being upset either but it seems to me to be a time for holding in our feelings and being as calm and polite as possible. And for trying to post posts that you know won't stir the pot. Which Mr. Lee did, but I've spoken with him and he's agreed not to post controversial posts for a 'calming period', which was music to my ears. I wish everyone could do the same. Can everyone please try to do that? Even if it means silence for a bit?

Sweeping the issues under the carpet doesn't make them go away.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

True,  but personally I'm tired of this 'oh he started it first'. Dammit, I'm finishing it. And yeah the PM thing bothers me, but not surprised, esp. considering what we uncovered during our investigation

[guitarfool2002]

It's happened far too often where any number of posters have been affected by these PM campaigns or efforts to smear them or even challenge their integrity. And it seems if they dare to speak out in their defense or even show some anger when they find out people were sending messages around to others in an attempt to bash, smear, or discredit them personally...and others believe and repeat it on the basis of the gossip...they're either more at fault or blamed equally to those who sent the PM's. I can empathize with that, and understand exactly how some might feel when the gossip spread reappears in public posts, whether true or not.

Maybe the deeper outrage and calls to stop should be directed at those who were actually engaging in this bullshit, and using the board and the PM system to do so.

As Iain would know firsthand, the angry mob doesn't need the truth or even a sense of fairness to push for the results they want if they feel someone was out of line, and often times people end up getting hurt.

[Debbie KL]

Billy.  I guess I'm trying to follow this and understand what's going on and what action needs to be taken.  Could you be more specific?  

I remember Iain starting a thread roughly around the time when NPP was coming out - I think - with a title something like, "Why do you hate Mike Love?"  I haven't researched the details and timing of it, but remember being a bit puzzled by such a provocative thread.  If any of us were sitting around "hating Mike Love," I suspect the number was very few - I certainly wasn't there.  Not liking some of his actions and comments, well - I think that's a different story.  Not long thereafter, Iain produced an article from it.  Most posters here were trying to understand what was going on, including me before the article.  It became clear shortly thereafter.  It was an attack on SS and its posters and a defense of Love.

Suddenly, he reappears after all this time "enjoying" a hit piece on Brian, and admitting he's having a little trouble getting a Mike Love project out.  That's a bit like Mike Love finding Evan Landy's interview "interesting" last year after sobbing in front of Diane Sawyer back in that period (video easily accessible on YouTube, last I looked), about what Evan and his dad Eugene were doing to cousin Brian.

I'm sorry, but I see more of a link here to some weird history re-write going on than paranoia.  I understand wanting the fighting to stop.  I'm more interested in having the lying and subterfuge stop at this point.  But that's just me.  

Sorry - posted without seeing those most recent, but I don't think it changes my view.

[Juice Brohnston]

IainLee, please try not to antagonate.

Just curious why you would signal him out as he sems to be getting it from multiple posters?

I agree with you the bickering is absolutely out of control. Why don't you try Pet Sounds Forum for a while. So far, seems to be more tlerant...tough it's early lol.

[Emily]

IainLee, please try not to antagonate.

Just curious why you would signal him out as he sems to be getting it from multiple posters?

I agree with you the bickering is absolutely out of control. Why don't you try Pet Sounds Forum for a while. So far, seems to be more tlerant...tough it's early lol.

I've really got to go right now, but I'm happy to talk with about why later. I talked with Mr. Lee on the phone and he accepted my reasons.
 I'm going to say again, and this is not directed at you, JB, I think the best thing to do in order for this forum to be bearable is for people to drop all this for a bit and to try to be agreeable for a while, whether you are right or wrong about the underlying causes. It's wholly unpleasant for those not involved and it's becoming unbearable.

[guitarfool2002]

IainLee, please try not to antagonate.

Just curious why you would signal him out as he sems to be getting it from multiple posters?

I agree with you the bickering is absolutely out of control. Why don't you try Pet Sounds Forum for a while. So far, seems to be more tlerant...tough it's early lol.

Because, Juice Brohnston, he just revealed that he had received private messages about another poster that obviously were not complimentary in fact were quite the opposite. If people who were not only directly affected in this case but who may have had the same things happen (or happened) to them are more than a little upset to hear even more proof this was happening are now "giving it" to the member who just said his opinion of another person was shaped by the gossip if not outright bullshit he got in a PM, that's part of a dialogue. All sides get a say.

If Iain Lee or anyone else would step up and say who was spreading gossip to them privately about other board members, maybe that would be more information to use for those deciding whether to join another forum. Especially if those who were engaging in the behavior that led to this are prominently posting there too.

[Emily]

GF, you are asking someone who has agreed to not come here to push buttons to come back and argue. You're free to do so, but it will not solve problems; it will exacerbate everything; and it will cause people who feel more affinity with this board to leave it anyway.
I'm done.

[guitarfool2002]

IainLee, please try not to antagonate.

Just curious why you would signal him out as he sems to be getting it from multiple posters?

I agree with you the bickering is absolutely out of control. Why don't you try Pet Sounds Forum for a while. So far, seems to be more tlerant...tough it's early lol.

I've really got to go right now, but I'm happy to talk with about why later. I talked with Mr. Lee on the phone and he accepted my reasons.
 I'm going to say again, and this is not directed at you, JB, I think the best thing to do in order for this forum to be bearable is for people to drop all this for a bit and to try to be agreeable for a while, whether you are right or wrong about the underlying causes. It's wholly unpleasant for those not involved and it's becoming unbearable.

Emily, what you don't seem to realize is that there was and is a very defined "right" and a very defined "wrong" in all of this, there is no moral relevancy argument or weighing whether something is right or wrong in these specific underlying causes.

If you and others may think trying to ruin other board members with gossip and innuendo using the PM system on this board was in any way "right", even if that percentage is .00000001%, that is what could also be considered unbearable because some things truly do come down to right and wrong.

Or maybe if it came out that you personally were one of those who was targeted in these private message gossip efforts designed to discredit you personally for whatever reason, and the results of the messages was changing people's opinion of you to the point where you had to read it posted by members you didn't even know were involved, the issue of right and wrong wouldn't be so blurry.

It is also important to see both sides and give both sides equal opportunity to speak.

[Juice Brohnston]

IainLee, please try not to antagonate.

Just curious why you would signal him out as he sems to be getting it from multiple posters?

I agree with you the bickering is absolutely out of control. Why don't you try Pet Sounds Forum for a while. So far, seems to be more tlerant...tough it's early lol.

So your real name is Emily?
It seems that these PM's cause an awful lot of issues. And I'll be frank GF, you seem to spend a lot of time talking about PM's, dropping hints about 'if you only knew what was said' regarding PM's, while also challenging others to divulge info from other PM's. Why don't you get rid of that feature? If people want to share their emails, they can.
Because, Juice Brohnston, he just revealed that he had received private messages about another poster that obviously were not complimentary in fact were quite the opposite. If people who were not only directly affected in this case but who may have had the same things happen (or happened) to them are more than a little upset to hear even more proof this was happening are now "giving it" to the member who just said his opinion of another person was shaped by the gossip if not outright bullshit he got in a PM, that's part of a dialogue. All sides get a say.

If Iain Lee or anyone else would step up and say who was spreading gossip to them privately about other board members, maybe that would be more information to use for those deciding whether to join another forum. Especially if those who were engaging in the behavior that led to this are prominently posting there too.

[guitarfool2002]

GF, you are asking someone who has agreed to not come here to push buttons to come back and argue. You're free to do so, but it will not solve problems; it will exacerbate everything; and it will cause people who feel more affinity with this board to leave it anyway.
I'm done.

Where did Iain agree to not push buttons - on a phone call with you instead of the board? Is that what it was? How is that supposed to make things right with the people who were bashed in those PM's he referenced, and what was in them...and who sent them, and why? He already did push the buttons and opened up a can of worms that got to the heart of many underlying issues that have been causing tensions and problems far beyond Iain himself.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Maybe an apology is in order

[guitarfool2002]

IainLee, please try not to antagonate.

Just curious why you would signal him out as he sems to be getting it from multiple posters?

I agree with you the bickering is absolutely out of control. Why don't you try Pet Sounds Forum for a while. So far, seems to be more tlerant...tough it's early lol.

Because, Juice Brohnston, he just revealed that he had received private messages about another poster that obviously were not complimentary in fact were quite the opposite. If people who were not only directly affected in this case but who may have had the same things happen (or happened) to them are more than a little upset to hear even more proof this was happening are now "giving it" to the member who just said his opinion of another person was shaped by the gossip if not outright bullshit he got in a PM, that's part of a dialogue. All sides get a say.

If Iain Lee or anyone else would step up and say who was spreading gossip to them privately about other board members, maybe that would be more information to use for those deciding whether to join another forum. Especially if those who were engaging in the behavior that led to this are prominently posting there too.

So your real name is Emily?
It seems that these PM's cause an awful lot of issues. And I'll be frank GF, you seem to spend a lot of time talking about PM's, dropping hints about 'if you only knew what was said' regarding PM's, while also challenging others to divulge info from other PM's. Why don't you get rid of that feature? If people want to share their emails, they can.

I advocated for removing the PM function and brought that up several times, but there was not agreement to do so and I dropped it.

I spend a lot of time talking about it because it was a part of this community that I wish had never infected it to the levels it did, and those who engaged in trying to destroy other board members by using and abusing the PM system are not getting away with it. I can understand someone letting off some steam in a PM discussion with a pal, but not when it was done as specifically and as targeted as it turns out to have been. Or still is. It's the equivalent of punching someone in the face and breaking their nose while they're sleeping. Cowardly, backhanded bullshit.

[Debbie KL]

Maybe an apology is in order

So, I understand ORR was banned due to behind-the-scenes info that proved to be false?  I do see that he was reinstated.  I realize that much of this is private info, but is there any way to resolve this?  Possibly someone could step forward, without directly quoting private messages and clear ORR's name?  If what I understand is true, he deserves that much.  

I'm not certain what Iain's allegations were about ORR's character that he received in pm's, but I'm wondering if anyone bothered to confirm them.

Please clarify if I'm mistaken.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Maybe an apology is in order

So, I understand ORR was banned due to behind-the-scenes info that proved to be false?  I do see that he was reinstated.  I realize that much of this is private info, but is there any way to resolve this?  Possibly someone could step forward, without directly quoting private messages and clear ORR's name?  If what I understand is true, he deserves that much.  

I'm not certain what Iain's allegations were about ORR's character that he received in pm's, but I'm wondering if anyone bothered to confirm them.

Please clarify if I'm mistaken.

I was banned for raising such a stink about it. The instigator was questioned by a Mod and he lied about doing it.
That was that for the investigation, at the time,  and I was not happy. So I would not let up about it so I banned.

Edit: Ian was not involved, to make that clear.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Maybe an apology is in order

So, I understand ORR was banned due to behind-the-scenes info that proved to be false?  I do see that he was reinstated.  I realize that much of this is private info, but is there any way to resolve this?  Possibly someone could step forward, without directly quoting private messages and clear ORR's name?  If what I understand is true, he deserves that much.  

I'm not certain what Iain's allegations were about ORR's character that he received in pm's, but I'm wondering if anyone bothered to confirm them.

Please clarify if I'm mistaken.

Much of this is in the AGD thread, or at least I thought it was.  I'm not at home and it's a pain to do this on my phone but I'll post longer when I get home. If this is something different,  then I need to be caught up. I did reinstate ORR, yes.I have apologized to him publicly and privately.

All I know is I'm tired of all of the fighting and people being complete assholes to each other. My God, my life is enough of a shitstain as it is already without adding to it.  This is so old to me.

[IainLee]

I wholeheartedly and sincerely apologise for any offence caused to anyone.

I'm genuine.

That's my last word on the matter.

I hope everyone can move on and I can continue to post here if I see fit.

I did speak to Emily, she called the number I posted. I agreed with her I wouldnt post here for a month unless I saw myself being besmirched. Well, I lasted nearly 3 hours. But I will go back to that initial agreement.

Again, my heartfelt apologies to anyone who may have been hurt or offended by my comments in this thread.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Maybe an apology is in order

So, I understand ORR was banned due to behind-the-scenes info that proved to be false?  I do see that he was reinstated.  I realize that much of this is private info, but is there any way to resolve this?  Possibly someone could step forward, without directly quoting private messages and clear ORR's name?  If what I understand is true, he deserves that much. 

I'm not certain what Iain's allegations were about ORR's character that he received in pm's, but I'm wondering if anyone bothered to confirm them.

Please clarify if I'm mistaken.

I was banned for raising such a stink about it. The instigator was questioned by a Mod and he lied about doing it.
That was that for the investigation, at the time,  and I was not happy. So I would not let up about it so I banned.

Edit: Ian was not involved, to make that clear.

That was on me....one of my biggest regrets here.

[Debbie KL]

Okay, so we're back on topic. That's a good thing - I guess, even though this is referencing an idiotic article that holds no credibility when compared to facts. Now, may it happily go away.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I wholeheartedly and sincerely apologise for any offence caused to anyone.

I'm genuine.

That's my last word on the matter.

I hope everyone can move on and I can continue to post here if I see fit.

I did speak to Emily, she called the number I posted. I agreed with her I wouldnt post here for a month unless I saw myself being besmirched. Well, I lasted nearly 3 hours. But I will go back to that initial agreement.

Again, my heartfelt apologies to anyone who may have been hurt or offended by my comments in this thread.

Iain, what are you apologizing for?? You haven't done a single thing wrong - only a complete and utter moron wouldn't be able to see that OregonRiverRider was deliberately trying to get a rise out of you, as he does with many posters on here (in your case, I suspect it's jealousy on his part because you've had published articles in popular music magazines and he's consigned to making incoherent ranty comments on here, seemingly 24/7).

I don't really understand why the moderators are siding with such a twerp and being so blatantly wrongheaded in their arguments - I mean, of course posters complain about OregonRiverRider to one another in private messages! He comes on here and behaves like an absolute tool, makes no sense, spoils it for everyone else, and gets away with it - what else do they possibly expect?? (This was an interesting and fun thread until he appeared and made that needlessly bitchy comment about you.)

It's precisely because of people like him that I stopped visiting this site myself about six months ago - I've only just recently returned but I doubt I'll be coming back here again...

P.S. The Record Collector article was great - didn't agree with everything you said (so what?), but a lot of it had me nodding in agreement and it was great fun to read. Look forward to something similar soon