What If?: SMiLE came out instead of Good Vibrations?

[guitarfool2002]

If the issue is still (after all the discussions from previous weeks) centered on the band not appearing on TV, we have a May 1966 primary source of a radio interview where a band member (Mike) answered the question. The band did not want to do TV appearances at that time, and they did not. Mike said they preferred to promote through their live concerts rather than lip-syncing on TV. What we also have are the examples of the band following what the Beatles had also begun doing, by sending short film clips to various TV shows in place of them actually appearing on that show and miming to whatever single was out. Sloop John B had the promo film with Derek Taylor and the swimming pool. Good Vibrations had the firehouse film directed by Brian (which was reported to have been seen on UK TV as well as some who remember it on US TV), and various versions that used live performance clips from England cut to the track (I posted one specific example from Beat Club). Heroes even got a clip that showed surfing footage cut to the song.

If primary sourcing is not sufficient enough in the form of a band member in May 1966 answering off the cuff why there are no TV appearances, combined with the evidence the band was instead using film as the Beatles had been doing to promote the singles on TV and we have examples, it's hard to imagine what else in terms of "proof" could be produced.

The band didn't want to make standard TV appearances as of May 1966 going into 1967, so they sent films instead, just as the Beatles had been doing since Day Tripper was released. The most basic answer is the band said no to doing TV and that's why there were no appearances.

The decision came from the band according to the May '66 radio interview, they simply said no. If the band said no, that's the last word.

[filledeplage]

If the issue is still (after all the discussions from previous weeks) centered on the band not appearing on TV, we have a May 1966 primary source of a radio interview where a band member (Mike) answered the question. The band did not want to do TV appearances at that time, and they did not. Mike said they preferred to promote through their live concerts rather than lip-syncing on TV. What we also have are the examples of the band following what the Beatles had also begun doing, by sending short film clips to various TV shows in place of them actually appearing on that show and miming to whatever single was out. Sloop John B had the promo film with Derek Taylor and the swimming pool. Good Vibrations had the firehouse film directed by Brian (which was reported to have been seen on UK TV as well as some who remember it on US TV), and various versions that used live performance clips from England cut to the track (I posted one specific example from Beat Club). Heroes even got a clip that showed surfing footage cut to the song.

If primary sourcing is not sufficient enough in the form of a band member in May 1966 answering off the cuff why there are no TV appearances, combined with the evidence the band was instead using film as the Beatles had been doing to promote the singles on TV and we have examples, it's hard to imagine what else in terms of "proof" could be produced.

The band didn't want to make standard TV appearances as of May 1966 going into 1967, so they sent films instead, just as the Beatles had been doing since Day Tripper was released. The most basic answer is the band said no to doing TV and that's why there were no appearances.

The decision came from the band according to the May '66 radio interview, they simply said no. If the band said no, that's the last word.

GF - the jury is out.  While it may have been a statement from a principal, it is not a strong one. 

No one seems to get that these videos were not in any kind of promo level circulation.  Having a video is one thing; there was no VH1/MTV as an outlet to promote it.   

This is from 1967 UNICEF in Paris and yet nothing live on TV, from the States.

http://youtu.be/YTpzKDhdjms    --Hope it copies. 

They did live stuff IIRC during the TIKH in the Spring of 1967 in the UK.   

Here are 4 principals in Paris talking about the record company not doing right by them.  1970.

http://youtu.be/uehyh57k2_E

Hope they copy.

[Emily]

If the issue is still (after all the discussions from previous weeks) centered on the band not appearing on TV, we have a May 1966 primary source of a radio interview where a band member (Mike) answered the question. The band did not want to do TV appearances at that time, and they did not. Mike said they preferred to promote through their live concerts rather than lip-syncing on TV. What we also have are the examples of the band following what the Beatles had also begun doing, by sending short film clips to various TV shows in place of them actually appearing on that show and miming to whatever single was out. Sloop John B had the promo film with Derek Taylor and the swimming pool. Good Vibrations had the firehouse film directed by Brian (which was reported to have been seen on UK TV as well as some who remember it on US TV), and various versions that used live performance clips from England cut to the track (I posted one specific example from Beat Club). Heroes even got a clip that showed surfing footage cut to the song.

If primary sourcing is not sufficient enough in the form of a band member in May 1966 answering off the cuff why there are no TV appearances, combined with the evidence the band was instead using film as the Beatles had been doing to promote the singles on TV and we have examples, it's hard to imagine what else in terms of "proof" could be produced.

The band didn't want to make standard TV appearances as of May 1966 going into 1967, so they sent films instead, just as the Beatles had been doing since Day Tripper was released. The most basic answer is the band said no to doing TV and that's why there were no appearances.

The decision came from the band according to the May '66 radio interview, they simply said no. If the band said no, that's the last word.

GF - the jury is out.  While it may have been a statement from a principal, it is not a strong one. 

No one seems to get that these videos were not in any kind of promo level circulation.  Having a video is one thing; there was no VH1/MTV as an outlet to promote it.   

This is from 1967 UNICEF in Paris and yet nothing live on TV, from the States.

http://youtu.be/YTpzKDhdjms    --Hope it copies. 

They did live stuff IIRC during the TIKH in the Spring of 1967 in the UK.   

Here are 4 principals in Paris talking about the record company not doing right by them.  1970.

http://youtu.be/uehyh57k2_E

Hope they copy.

One personal appearance on a TV show is equivalent to one airing of the promo video on a TV show in terms of quantity of views. One promo video can be shown on multiple TV shows. So the idea that MTV wasn't around is not at all pertinent to whether a promo video can suffice to replace a personal appearance. That's completely illogical. The Beatles, who undeniably had a much more professional and successful operation than the Beach Boys made this choice. If the Beach Boys prefer live shows (which history has shown is by far their chosen method of getting their music out there, why wouldn't they chose to follow a route that the most successful band in the world had chosen that satisfies their own preferences?
The videos you link to make no reference at all to why they don't do TV.
FdP, in this very thread you dismiss other actual primary sources as not being 'primary' according to your personal definition because they are not the actual Beach Boys. In your arguments earlier in this thread you place statements by a Beach Boy over any other, much stronger evidence. But in this case, you are dismissing the only evidence provided, which is Mike Love, a Beach Boy saying, with other Beach Boys present and not controverting his statement in the least, that they don't like to do TV, combined with a career-long commitment to live concerts.
Your arguments in this thread are entirely inconsistent and exhibit cherry-picking evidence to support pre-conceived notions. It's not credible in the least.

[filledeplage]

If the issue is still (after all the discussions from previous weeks) centered on the band not appearing on TV, we have a May 1966 primary source of a radio interview where a band member (Mike) answered the question. The band did not want to do TV appearances at that time, and they did not. Mike said they preferred to promote through their live concerts rather than lip-syncing on TV. What we also have are the examples of the band following what the Beatles had also begun doing, by sending short film clips to various TV shows in place of them actually appearing on that show and miming to whatever single was out. Sloop John B had the promo film with Derek Taylor and the swimming pool. Good Vibrations had the firehouse film directed by Brian (which was reported to have been seen on UK TV as well as some who remember it on US TV), and various versions that used live performance clips from England cut to the track (I posted one specific example from Beat Club). Heroes even got a clip that showed surfing footage cut to the song.

If primary sourcing is not sufficient enough in the form of a band member in May 1966 answering off the cuff why there are no TV appearances, combined with the evidence the band was instead using film as the Beatles had been doing to promote the singles on TV and we have examples, it's hard to imagine what else in terms of "proof" could be produced.

The band didn't want to make standard TV appearances as of May 1966 going into 1967, so they sent films instead, just as the Beatles had been doing since Day Tripper was released. The most basic answer is the band said no to doing TV and that's why there were no appearances.

The decision came from the band according to the May '66 radio interview, they simply said no. If the band said no, that's the last word.

GF - the jury is out.  While it may have been a statement from a principal, it is not a strong one.  

No one seems to get that these videos were not in any kind of promo level circulation.  Having a video is one thing; there was no VH1/MTV as an outlet to promote it.  

This is from 1967 UNICEF in Paris and yet nothing live on TV, from the States.

http://youtu.be/YTpzKDhdjms    --Hope it copies.  

They did live stuff IIRC during the TIKH in the Spring of 1967 in the UK.    

Here are 4 principals in Paris talking about the record company not doing right by them.  1970.

http://youtu.be/uehyh57k2_E

Hope they copy.

One personal appearance on a TV show is equivalent to one airing of the promo video on a TV show in terms of quantity of views. One promo video can be shown on multiple TV shows. So the idea that MTV wasn't around is not at all pertinent to whether a promo video can suffice to replace a personal appearance. That's completely illogical. The Beatles, who undeniably had a much more professional and successful operation than the Beach Boys made this choice. If the Beach Boys prefer live shows (which history has shown is by far their chosen method of getting their music out there, why wouldn't they chose to follow a route that the most successful band in the world had chosen that satisfies their own preferences?
The videos you link to make no reference at all to why they don't do TV.
FdP, in this very thread you dismiss other actual primary sources as not being 'primary' according to your personal definition because they are not the actual Beach Boys. In your arguments earlier in this thread you place statements by a Beach Boy over any other, much stronger evidence. But in this case, you are dismissing the only evidence provided, which is Mike Love, a Beach Boy saying, with other Beach Boys present and not controverting his statement in the least, that they don't like to do TV, combined with a career-long commitment to live concerts.
Your arguments in this thread are entirely inconsistent and exhibit cherry-picking evidence to support pre-conceived notions. It's not credible in the least.

Emily - that is my experience as a fan "at that time."

And if you can tell me the TV spots were those pre-fab (pun intended) videos were aired, it would be helpful.  Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

They did not air on prime time TV.  There were only the 3 major US networks and a smaller VHF band emerging which did have other major live bands.

When they came out of their "self-imposed " (which I don't believe) TV exile, they were doing 1966-7 stuff on the major networks, doing GV - 2 years post release.  Makes no credible sense.  

 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

Furthermore, there is currently a Youtube video floating around of Dick Clark showing and talking about the Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane promo vids on American Bandstand. This one has had the sound muted for copyright reasons but you get the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysG6GN9n3nE

So these videos definitely circulated.

[Emily]

Here's a very informative blog post about the Beatles' promo films:
http://wogew.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-beatles-music-videos.html

No one can be expected to have seen every episode of Ed Sullivan or other shows featuring popular music, nor can one be expected to remember all they've seen. This is why research is often more useful than memory.

[filledeplage]

Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  His last show was June 6, 1971.

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

On show #426, The Beach Boys did (Sept. 27, 1964) the did I Get Around and Wendy.  

[Emily]

Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

On show #426, The Beach Boys did (Sept. 27, 1964) the did I Get Around and Wendy.  

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-ed-sullivan-show/june-5-1966-the-beatles-on-tape-richard-pryor-jack-benny-robert-goulet-charlotte-rae-107885/

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

You can find both examples in The Beatles Anthology series. Disc 5 has The Beatles recorded intro for the Sullivan Show and Disc 6 or 7 has Ed Sullivan outright introducing the Hello Goodbye video in lieu of a Beatles performance.

The Paperback Writer entry on Wikipedia says the following: On the first day they recorded a colour performance at Abbey Road Studios, for The Ed Sullivan Show, which was shown on 5 June

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback_Writer

The Hello Goodbye entry on Wikipedia says the following: The Beatles produced three promotional films for the song, one of which was shown on The Ed Sullivan Show in America. ... In the US, the first promo for "Hello, Goodbye" was premiered on The Ed Sullivan Show on 26 November

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_Goodbye

[filledeplage]

 Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

You can find both examples in The Beatles Anthology series. Disc 5 has The Beatles recorded intro for the Sullivan Show and Disc 6 or 7 has Ed Sullivan outright introducing the Hello Goodbye video in lieu of a Beatles performance.

The Paperback Writer entry on Wikipedia says the following: On the first day they recorded a colour performance at Abbey Road Studios, for The Ed Sullivan Show, which was shown on 5 June

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback_Writer

The Hello Goodbye entry on Wikipedia says the following: The Beatles produced three promotional films for the song, one of which was shown on The Ed Sullivan Show in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_Goodbye

http://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnL  - Hello Goodbye - performed not a video to a singles or album track.  Hope it copies.

[Emily]

 Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

You can find both examples in The Beatles Anthology series. Disc 5 has The Beatles recorded intro for the Sullivan Show and Disc 6 or 7 has Ed Sullivan outright introducing the Hello Goodbye video in lieu of a Beatles performance.

The Paperback Writer entry on Wikipedia says the following: On the first day they recorded a colour performance at Abbey Road Studios, for The Ed Sullivan Show, which was shown on 5 June

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback_Writer

The Hello Goodbye entry on Wikipedia says the following: The Beatles produced three promotional films for the song, one of which was shown on The Ed Sullivan Show in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_Goodbye

http://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnL  - Hello Goodbye - performed not a video to a singles or album track.  Hope it copies.

did you read the material posted?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

 Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

You can find both examples in The Beatles Anthology series. Disc 5 has The Beatles recorded intro for the Sullivan Show and Disc 6 or 7 has Ed Sullivan outright introducing the Hello Goodbye video in lieu of a Beatles performance.

The Paperback Writer entry on Wikipedia says the following: On the first day they recorded a colour performance at Abbey Road Studios, for The Ed Sullivan Show, which was shown on 5 June

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback_Writer

The Hello Goodbye entry on Wikipedia says the following: The Beatles produced three promotional films for the song, one of which was shown on The Ed Sullivan Show in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_Goodbye

http://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnL  - Hello Goodbye - performed not a video to a singles or album track.  Hope it copies.

I'm sorry. I'm quite confused. You linked me to the promo film that I have been referring to.

[Emily]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5Eclt6_ac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lICpC2GoHjg
these were both shown on Ed Sullivan
edited: lol - I first posted a parody of Rain!

[filledeplage]

Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

You can find both examples in The Beatles Anthology series. Disc 5 has The Beatles recorded intro for the Sullivan Show and Disc 6 or 7 has Ed Sullivan outright introducing the Hello Goodbye video in lieu of a Beatles performance.

The Paperback Writer entry on Wikipedia says the following: On the first day they recorded a colour performance at Abbey Road Studios, for The Ed Sullivan Show, which was shown on 5 June

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback_Writer

The Hello Goodbye entry on Wikipedia says the following: The Beatles produced three promotional films for the song, one of which was shown on The Ed Sullivan Show in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_Goodbye

http://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnL  - Hello Goodbye - performed not a video to a singles or album track.  Hope it copies.

I'm sorry. I'm quite confused. You linked me to the promo film that I have been referring to.

There is a Paperback Writer video that is a video set to the single.

 http://youtu.be/qf5Eclt6_ac   Hope that copies.

Don't have that Beatles anthology.   

[Emily]

 Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

You can find both examples in The Beatles Anthology series. Disc 5 has The Beatles recorded intro for the Sullivan Show and Disc 6 or 7 has Ed Sullivan outright introducing the Hello Goodbye video in lieu of a Beatles performance.

The Paperback Writer entry on Wikipedia says the following: On the first day they recorded a colour performance at Abbey Road Studios, for The Ed Sullivan Show, which was shown on 5 June

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback_Writer

The Hello Goodbye entry on Wikipedia says the following: The Beatles produced three promotional films for the song, one of which was shown on The Ed Sullivan Show in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_Goodbye

http://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnL  - Hello Goodbye - performed not a video to a singles or album track.  Hope it copies.

I'm sorry. I'm quite confused. You linked me to the promo film that I have been referring to.

There is a Paperback Writer video that is a video set to the single.

 http://youtu.be/qf5Eclt6_ac   Hope that copies.

so you agree?

[filledeplage]

 Ed Sullivan was not showing music videos.

That is flat out false.

There is video around of The Beatles themselves recording an introduction specifically for the Ed Sullivan show before the airing of the Paperback Writer/Rain videos.

There is also video of Ed Sullivan on his show introducing the Hello, Goodbye promo film.

He was indeed showing those videos.

I would like to see evidence of that.  There is a detailed master list of all Sullivan's shows and live guests on ranker.com.  

For example on June 28, 1964, The Beatles 3rd appearance shows the songs they sang, Twist and Shout, Please, Please me, I Want to Hold your Hand.  Pre-recorded video, inserted into a live show.  It is listed last show # 361.  Not a video.

You can find both examples in The Beatles Anthology series. Disc 5 has The Beatles recorded intro for the Sullivan Show and Disc 6 or 7 has Ed Sullivan outright introducing the Hello Goodbye video in lieu of a Beatles performance.

The Paperback Writer entry on Wikipedia says the following: On the first day they recorded a colour performance at Abbey Road Studios, for The Ed Sullivan Show, which was shown on 5 June

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback_Writer

The Hello Goodbye entry on Wikipedia says the following: The Beatles produced three promotional films for the song, one of which was shown on The Ed Sullivan Show in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_Goodbye

http://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnL  - Hello Goodbye - performed not a video to a singles or album track.  Hope it copies.

I'm sorry. I'm quite confused. You linked me to the promo film that I have been referring to.

There is a Paperback Writer video that is a video set to the single.

 http://youtu.be/qf5Eclt6_ac   Hope that copies.

so you agree?

Where are The Beach Boys? In 1965-1968?

The Beatles have the hula girls (BB)  for Hello, Goodbye. That is a (live) taped stand-up performance.

[Emily]

So?

[filledeplage]

So?

Emily - there is a difference between a taped "stand up"segment that is inserted into a show which I gave an example of with the Beatles, above, and one that is pre-fabbed, and set to a video.  Hello Goodbye was such a performance. 

Where is the evidence that the BB's segments ever aired on live, national TV? 

Ed Sullivan treated the Beatles like royalty.  The Beach Boys were on as far as I can tell in 1964 and 1968.  In 1968 they did GV but Do It Again which was timely. 

There is a TV gap that remains of nearly 3 years in the States.   Taped "performance" would have been acceptable.  No Sloop, no WIBN and no GOK.  (Pet Sounds.)

When VH1-MTV started airing of course they aired Sloop on that promo but that was in the 1980's, and not contemporaneous to the release to boost sales and concert tickets.   

[SMiLE Brian]

Huh?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

So?

Emily - there is a difference between a taped "stand up"segment that is inserted into a show which I gave an example of with the Beatles, above, and one that is pre-fabbed, and set to a video.  Hello Goodbye was such a performance. 

The Hello Goodbye video which you linked to was a a promotional video exactly like Paperback Writer and Rain was. They are not giving a live performance whatsoever in Hello Goodbye. It's a music video in which they are pretending to sing live - it's a common sub-genre of the music video. That The Beatles are simply miming to their record was so obvious that the video was in fact banned by the BBC for lip-synching (a recent rule in England that obviously evaporated eventually). It's a promo video plain and simple. It has always been described as such and any attempts to call it something other than that is a simple fabrication.

[Emily]

So?

Emily - there is a difference between a taped "stand up"segment that is inserted into a show which I gave an example of with the Beatles, above, and one that is pre-fabbed, and set to a video.  Hello Goodbye was such a performance. 

The Hello Goodbye video which you linked to was a a promotional video exactly like Paperback Writer and Rain was. They are not giving a live performance whatsoever in Hello Goodbye. It's a music video in which they are pretending to sing live - it's a common sub-genre of the music video. That The Beatles are simply miming to their record was so obvious that the video was in fact banned by the BBC for lip-synching (a recent rule in England that obviously evaporated eventually). It's a promo video plain and simple. It has always been described as such and any attempts to call it something other than that is a simple fabrication.

and, even so, Rain and Paperback Writer which were shown on Ed Sullivan and other TV shows are not "as if" performed. The point being, the Beatles made promo films and sent them to TV shows in lieu of performing. The Beach Boys did the same. Neither wanted to haul themselves to the studio and stand there and lip sync. What's the problem here?

[filledeplage]

So?

Emily - there is a difference between a taped "stand up"segment that is inserted into a show which I gave an example of with the Beatles, above, and one that is pre-fabbed, and set to a video.  Hello Goodbye was such a performance. 

The Hello Goodbye video which you linked to was a a promotional video exactly like Paperback Writer and Rain was. They are not giving a live performance whatsoever in Hello Goodbye. It's a music video in which they are pretending to sing live - it's a common sub-genre of the music video. That The Beatles are simply miming to their record was so obvious that the video was in fact banned by the BBC for lip-synching (a recent rule in England that obviously evaporated eventually). It's a promo video plain and simple. It has always been described as such and any attempts to call it something other than that is a simple fabrication.

and, even so, Rain and Paperback Writer which were shown on Ed Sullivan and other TV shows are not "as if" performed. The point being, the Beatles made promo films and sent them to TV shows in lieu of performing. The Beach Boys did the same. Neither wanted to haul themselves to the studio and stand there and lip sync. What's the problem here?

The problem is the void.  There are no Beach Boys appearances; real or imagined during that time. 

The Beatles could do anything the wanted.  The Beach Boys had no such luxury. 

Where are the dates of their appearances?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But just as a point of clarification - a taped segment to be inserted into a show is pre-taped for a particular show to appear as if it were part of the live show. That's not what Hello Goodbye was. For HG there were three promo films shot and then dispersed to various television programs. It was a promo film in every way the same as Paperback Writer, Rain, Day Tripper, We Can Work It Out, Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane.

[filledeplage]

But just as a point of clarification - a taped segment to be inserted into a show is pre-taped for a particular show to appear as if it were part of the live show. That's not what Hello Goodbye was. For HG there were three promo films shot and then dispersed to various television programs. It was a promo film in every way the same as Paperback Writer, Rain, Day Tripper, We Can Work It Out, Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane.

CSM - you know way more about The Beatles than I. 

However, in 1964, there was a "taped segment on June of 1964 of The Beatles." It was a stand up Twist and Shout, I Wanna hold Your Hand, and Please, Please Me.

This is acceptable as an "live" appearance, even inserted into a regular program.  Even in 1964.   

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But just as a point of clarification - a taped segment to be inserted into a show is pre-taped for a particular show to appear as if it were part of the live show. That's not what Hello Goodbye was. For HG there were three promo films shot and then dispersed to various television programs. It was a promo film in every way the same as Paperback Writer, Rain, Day Tripper, We Can Work It Out, Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane.

CSM - you know way more about The Beatles than I. 

However, in 1964, there was a "taped segment on June of 1964 of The Beatles." It was a stand up Twist and Shout, I Wanna hold Your Hand, and Please, Please Me.

This is acceptable as an "live" appearance, even inserted into a regular program.  Even in 1964.   

Yes, which was an altogether different thing from the Hello Goodbye promo video. That taped segment from 1964 was not a promotional video.

Before you began talking erroneously about Hello Goodbye as a "a taped 'stand up' segment that is inserted into a show," I had already linked to the wikipedia page for Hello Goodbye which expressly talked about the making of and airing of Hello Goodbye promo film.