Fireside Sessions questions

[filledeplage]

I mentioned in my book that in an interview soon after Bruce was extremely disparaging of the TV show but he raved about the fireside footage which he said was like the good old days had briefly returned

Interesting that Bruce didn't like the show. It was cut from the exact same, late 80's cheese cloth as their appearances on "Full House." I'm sure most BB fans did what I did, watched the opening BB concert number, then waited (or fast forwarded) for a possible "Club Kokomo" BB performance, then fast forwarded to the weekly "campfire" segment, and then watched the closing concert performance. I think they may have had a few decent other musical guests (I remember Steve Ray Vaughan was one).

They also did a couple of segments on Brian's solo bits during the BB concerts, including a performance of "Love and Mercy" with the extra verse, and a live performance of "In My Car" where the song's main melody line on the verses was totally different, intercut with studio footage and interviews about the song.

The fireside stuff is cool, but even that stuff is a *little bit* awkward now and then. There's one point where Brian is yelling at a kid with a scowl on his face to stay away from the fire (certainly a responsible thing to do; but weird to leave such a thing in and not edit out). But Brian giving Mike the third degree briefly about "Looking Back with Love" and Mike trying to pretend it doesn't exist is pretty funny.

Hey Jude - historically, it chronicles Landy (In My Car) and it validates that Brian was "paying attention" to what was going on around him, with the rest of the band, with Mike using Be My Baby on his LP.  Brian was not "scripted."

So it has merit and boomers were part of that child rearing "Thirty Something" (pun intended) crowd and very happy to get anything BB related as other forms of music were gaining traction.  And a good mix of fireside and concert footage. 

[37!ws]

HA! Didn't one of the other Beach Boys quietly say to Brian something like "Don't remind him of that album" after he said "You did it on your album"

[Steve Latshaw]

 <<Jeff Franklin is one of the "Full House" guys>>

Wrong Jeff Franklin.  The Jeff Franklin on this show, partnered with Steve Waterman, is actually a guy I know.  I wrote a handful of movies for him a few years back (Jeff Franklin III on imdb).  He also did the Born Free, High Tide and Mickey Spillane series, created the USA Network's NIGHT FLIGHT and used to manage Bob Seger.

I'll email him and see if he knows anything about the Beach/Campfire footage.

[CenturyDeprived]

All of the Beach Boys performances from the show were uploaded on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZylusEw-68

Around 26 minutes is Love and Mercy, performed by the BB's!
 

Super weird to hear Love and Mercy with the drums played just like Sweet Sunday Kind of Love.

[Matt H]

HA! Didn't one of the other Beach Boys quietly say to Brian something like "Don't remind him of that album" after he said "You did it on your album"

Mike acts like he has no idea what the album is, and Brian continues to push it.  "Your album Looking Back With Love."  Mike says "Shhhhh"

[drbeachboy]

Very cool watching the guys interact with each other during the campfire scenes.

[southbay]

Brian's concert footage was HEAVILY overdubbed in post production.  It was one of, if not the worst, live performances I have ever witnessed from any performer.  I was extremely embarrassed for him. He has come a very long way from those circus performer days.

[southbay]

HA! Didn't one of the other Beach Boys quietly say to Brian something like "Don't remind him of that album" after he said "You did it on your album"

Mike acts like he has no idea what the album is, and Brian continues to push it.  "Your album Looking Back With Love."  Mike says "Shhhhh"

"You absolutely did it on your album"

[HeyJude]

There’s at least one audience recording from that string of BB shows where Brian did his solo mini set. I think it’s a Philadelphia gig. He doesn’t do “In My Car”, but I think he does “Love and Mercy”, “Walkin’ the Line”, and “Melt Away.” He sounds on that recording about on par with his other ’88 solo live appearances. The stilted, weird nature of it (to say nothing of the bizarro aspect of Brian coming back to play with the band, only to mostly do solo stuff with the other BB’s off-stage) was usually more off-putting than the actual vocal performance from Brian. I recall he was partially using pre-recorded backing tapes, augmented by some of the BB backing band (and, at least on that Costa Mesa clip, some random dude playing a keytar).

[Shark]

It is indeed the Philadelphia show with Chicago where Brian does his mini-set.  I have that show (audience recording).  He sounds ok, certainly not great.  The only other song I remember hearing him on from that show was Surfer Girl.  It's been a few years since I have listened to that show but the combined set with both bands was great.

[Steve Latshaw]

I just received the below response from Jeff Franklin:

"Nice to hear from you. Unfortunately everything was lost in a warehouse fire of Beach Boys material. 

You are correct it was terrific stuff."

Best

J

[Rocky Raccoon]

Alan Boyd used the portion of the guys singing Surfin' around the fire in the Endless Harmony doc.  Either that was before the tapes were destroyed or there's a good looking backup of that material.

[Steve Latshaw]

Endless Harmony was done in 1998.  The Universal fire (if that's what Jeff was referring to) was about ten years later.

[Ian]

Personally I love that campfire footage and it is one of the only times in the 80s that we see some suggestion that Brian could actually once have been the leader of the group. He basically leads the proceedings and shuts down mike a few times.

[bgas]

I just received the below response from Jeff Franklin:

"Nice to hear from you. Unfortunately everything was lost in a warehouse fire of Beach Boys material.  

You are correct it was terrific stuff."

Best

J

Right, There was a Fire started by the smoldering Smile tapes.  

If there was a fire at a warehouse full of BBs material, where were all the news stories?   Maybe they kept all the tapes at the Caribou Ranch?
Here's the skinny, as I get it, on the Universal fire and why almost all the videos weren't destroyed: http://deadline.com/2008/06/update-universal-fire-burns-music-history-5937/

and another comment from 2011 in a separate article: 
>>
Freda said that the 2008 fire Hansen referred to at Universal Studios in Los Angeles, which destroyed many thousands of master tapes and other recordings originally issued by Decca, MCA and ABC Records, wasn't a major factor in the decision to turn over this batch of masters, long housed in Pennsylvania, to the Library of Congress. <<

[ESQ Editor]

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-beach-boys-endless-summer-program

[Steve Latshaw]

<<If there was a fire at a warehouse full of BBs material, where were all the news stories?>>

In restrospect, I don't think Universal had anything to do with this series, other than as a location/host for the show.  So the elements would not have been stored there.

[bgas]

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-beach-boys-endless-summer-program

Hmmm....   Problems problems problems( as the BBs would say)

Quoting the article:  >>Twenty-six years ago, during the summer of 1989, The Beach Boys were featured on the summer replacement television series, Endless Summer. Airing 7-8pm Pacific, each episode began with live footage from a May 30, 1989 performance recorded in San Diego, California. That show included Brian Wilson’s mini set that appears in Episode #7.  << 
  The BBs weren't in San Diego on the 30th, according to the Ian/ ESQ gigs page. From the timeline we find:
1; They performed in San Diego on the 28th. >>
     28 - Jack Murphy Stadium, San Diego CA
     28 - Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles CA*  [w/Chicago]    ( I'm presuming this should be the 29th?) or did they play both SD and LA in one day? 
     30 - Universal Studios, Los Angeles CA* [4] <<
              Note # 4    Special show filmed for Endless Summer TV show. Brian again has a solo slot.

2;  Brian's mini-sets were only played at  these three January shows: 
    24 - Spectrum, Philadelphia PA* [w/Chicago] [2]
    25 - The Centrum, Worcester MA* [w/Chicago] [2]
    27 - Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale NY* [w/Chicago] [2]
      Note # 2   Brian was featured in a mini-solo set in the middle of the BB's part of the gig.

3; The concert shown on ES was recorded on the 27th:      Pacific Amphitheater, Costa Mesa CA*  [w/Chicago] [3]
           Note # 3   This show was filmed and used in the Endless Summer TV show.
   
All information for the concerts/notes obtained here:  http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs89.html

Was there more to the Steve Binder interview, that you didn't quote/ include?

[Robbie Mac]

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-beach-boys-endless-summer-program

Well, that was a disheartening read.

[HeyJude]

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-beach-boys-endless-summer-program

Well, that was a disheartening read.

True, but it sounds about right. The vibe I always got from the series is that it was an easy gig for the BB's. The majority of their input came from letting someone videotape one of their concerts. Then they popped in for a few "TV appearance" type of bits for the "Club Kokomo" segments, and then did a one-shot video shoot for the fireside stuff and let them cut that stuff up. Brian was in the heavy Landy era, and if nothing else, one could sense some estrangement since the BB concert bits (and most of the Club Kokomo bits; save at least one) didn't feature Brian, while Brian was in a couple solo segments *without* the BBs. Weird times.

Rewatching some of the stuff, I do kind of like the weird harpsichord-ish intro Brian did on apparently an earlier demo of "In My Car."

[filledeplage]

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-beach-boys-endless-summer-program

Well, that was a disheartening read.

True, but it sounds about right. The vibe I always got from the series is that it was an easy gig for the BB's. The majority of their input came from letting someone videotape one of their concerts. Then they popped in for a few "TV appearance" type of bits for the "Club Kokomo" segments, and then did a one-shot video shoot for the fireside stuff and let them cut that stuff up. Brian was in the heavy Landy era, and if nothing else, one could sense some estrangement since the BB concert bits (and most of the Club Kokomo bits; save at least one) didn't feature Brian, while Brian was in a couple solo segments *without* the BBs. Weird times.

Rewatching some of the stuff, I do kind of like the weird harpsichord-ish intro Brian did on apparently an earlier demo of "In My Car."

Hey Jude - the glass is half full, here. With the movie released as well as the DVD we have authentication and this footage that you just couldn't make up.  You have a highly paid 24/7 "doctor" "Quack" who is next to Brian at the board.  What doctor sits at the board with his patient?

The doc is supposed to be in the background monitoring things not inserting himself into the music business.  You couldn't make this up.  And it supports the director stripping out everything but the essential personages in the film for the final version.

So he (Pohlad) pulls you into and keeps you in his "vortex" for the duration of the film.  It is three people; Brian, Melinda and Landy.

This series is invaluable from any number of standpoints.  Why wouldn't Carl be at the board with his brother? Or any other BB's working with Brian? Why is Landy there? Well, everyone gets to see the wrongful manipulation and separating him from the band under the pretext of "treatment." Never mind the details.  It supports the authenticity.  It demonstrates with this video that Landy just didn't belong there as a "provider."

So boo hoo if people didn't make money.  The footage is a Godsend.  This is the "manna from heaven" as documentary evidence as to the wrongdoing of Landy and, for an unbiased view of the backstory.  Because it gives "legs" to the authenticity of the script and scenes. And he did "loosen up" during the campfire scenes. And the whole world can see the truth for themselves. 

[HeyJude]

Not trying to play devil’s advocate, but if Binder really lost money trying to do a cool BB project, I wouldn’t tell him “boo hoo.” Maybe it was foolhardy to get involved with the BBs business-wise, but I wouldn’t be so dismissive about it. The guy’s not saying he wishes the TV show would be erased from history or that he hated it completely or anything. A bit of info on the production background is interesting, and apart from the fact that his production company apparently lost money having to pay royalties due to some syndication deal, everything else he says about the nature of the show is something I could have guessed. It was a period of increased popularity but increased turmoil for the group.

Not sure what Pohlad’s film has to do with the “Endless Summer” show. Everything that happened during the Landy years is relatable back to the L&M film, but who was even talking about the L&M film in this thread? And who is still feeling like we need more corroborating evidence to reinforce Pohlad’s film? It’s like saying “The Smile Sessions” corroborates the Smile segment in the “Endless Harmony” documentary. It does certainly, but who was even relating the two?

Yes, Landy is in there in that “In My Car” segment, and it’s obvious it’s an insane (and artistically laughable) relationship professionally and personally. But it’s just another little bit of evidence. There are many, many far more damning pieces of evidence in the Landy saga than a minute of footage where we get visual evidence of what was already on record jackets: that Landy was involving himself in writing and production.

I was speaking to the idea that Binder’s comments are a downer. Which they totally are. But they’re interesting comments, and any student of the band’s history know that 1989 was a weird time for them. 

[filledeplage]

Not trying to play devil’s advocate, but if Binder really lost money trying to do a cool BB project, I wouldn’t tell him “boo hoo.” Maybe it was foolhardy to get involved with the BBs business-wise, but I wouldn’t be so dismissive about it. The guy’s not saying he wishes the TV show would be erased from history or that he hated it completely or anything. A bit of info on the production background is interesting, and apart from the fact that his production company apparently lost money having to pay royalties due to some syndication deal, everything else he says about the nature of the show is something I could have guessed. It was a period of increased popularity but increased turmoil for the group.

Not sure what Pohlad’s film has to do with the “Endless Summer” show. Everything that happened during the Landy years is relatable back to the L&M film, but who was even talking about the L&M film in this thread? And who is still feeling like we need more corroborating evidence to reinforce Pohlad’s film? It’s like saying “The Smile Sessions” corroborates the Smile segment in the “Endless Harmony” documentary. It does certainly, but who was even relating the two?

Yes, Landy is in there in that “In My Car” segment, and it’s obvious it’s an insane (and artistically laughable) relationship professionally and personally. But it’s just another little bit of evidence. There are many, many far more damning pieces of evidence in the Landy saga than a minute of footage where we get visual evidence of what was already on record jackets: that Landy was involving himself in writing and production.

I was speaking to the idea that Binder’s comments are a downer. Which they totally are. But they’re interesting comments, and any student of the band’s history know that 1989 was a weird time for them.  

Hey Jude - I'm not thinking about Binder. I'm looking strictly at the chronology. In that window of time, the whole world sees. It is a Medical "provider" in a seat where he has no business.  This is presented as innocuous family time slot summer entertainment.  And it is vile, as Landy, a "medical provider" is on national TV exploiting his "patient."

[HeyJude]

I think the point was that this has been more a discussion of the show itself, not the *hugely obvious* aspect of Landy that looms over *everything* concerning Brian and Brian with the BBs from 1983 to 1992. Unless we’re going to start having a sidebar about Landy in every discussion of anything relating to those years in the band’s history, I’m not sure what the purpose is of pointing out the painfully obvious concerning Landy.

Should Warner stop pressing copies of the ’88 Brian album? The Landy taint is obvious to any fan who cares to know about such things. It’s a weird sort of taint that isn’t always easy to cope with. But I’m not prepared to indict Binder for playing some role in putting Landy out there anymore than I can the rest of the BB’s, who didn’t say “no, we’re not releasing this then” when Landy’s name appeared on numerous Beach Boys projects. Binder and the “Endless Summer” program weren’t prescribing Brian his medications. Simply put, if we start throwing shade on the innocuous, cheese fest “Endless Summer” show, then we’re going to have to throw shade at pretty much anyone who worked with Brian during that time frame. All the Beach Boys, David Leaf, Andy Paley, Russ Titelman, Jeff Lynne, Mark Linett, Gary Usher, David Marks, Bob Dylan, Terence Trent D’Arby, Lindsey Buckingham, Sire Records, Lenny Waronker, Elliott Lott, and so on. All of these people aren’t responsible for what Landy did. That they tried to work with Brian and therefore ended up getting Landy out there too, can’t be blamed on all of these people. Is letting it happen some sort of complicity? That’s a big, loaded question. That answer may well be yes for some people. But it was a very sticky issue. Maybe that minimal non-Landy contact, even if “approved” by Landy, that Brian was getting from collaborators and associates is what kept him going and kept him from succumbing to Landy even further.

[filledeplage]

I think the point was that this has been more a discussion of the show itself, not the *hugely obvious* aspect of Landy that looms over *everything* concerning Brian and Brian with the BBs from 1983 to 1992. Unless we’re going to start having a sidebar about Landy in every discussion of anything relating to those years in the band’s history, I’m not sure what the purpose is of pointing out the painfully obvious concerning Landy.

Should Warner stop pressing copies of the ’88 Brian album? The Landy taint is obvious to any fan who cares to know about such things. It’s a weird sort of taint that isn’t always easy to cope with. But I’m not prepared to indict Binder for playing some role in putting Landy out there anymore than I can the rest of the BB’s, who didn’t say “no, we’re not releasing this then” when Landy’s name appeared on numerous Beach Boys projects. Binder and the “Endless Summer” program weren’t prescribing Brian his medications. Simply put, if we start throwing shade on the innocuous, cheese fest “Endless Summer” show, then we’re going to have to throw shade at pretty much anyone who worked with Brian during that time frame. All the Beach Boys, David Leaf, Andy Paley, Russ Titelman, Jeff Lynne, Mark Linett, Gary Usher, David Marks, Bob Dylan, Terence Trent D’Arby, Lindsey Buckingham, Sire Records, Lenny Waronker, Elliott Lott, and so on. All of these people aren’t responsible for what Landy did. That they tried to work with Brian and therefore ended up getting Landy out there too, can’t be blamed on all of these people. Is letting it happen some sort of complicity? That’s a big, loaded question. That answer may well be yes for some people. But it was a very sticky issue. Maybe that minimal non-Landy contact, even if “approved” by Landy, that Brian was getting from collaborators and associates is what kept him going and kept him from succumbing to Landy even further.

Hey Jude - forget everyone else.

This is strictly the ethical issue of the medical provider becoming the "music" partner. This is all on Landy. No sidebar.

No one else has the duty to be at an arms length.  It was Landy's job to see that Brian could do "Brian's job" and not become his business partner.