Why do you hate Mike Love?

[Debbie KL]

You know, I'm going back to the original subject right now because I have a question.  I'm rather fascinated by the fact that anyone who objects to anything Mike does, or doesn't like some of his music is treated like a "Mike hater."  But those who attack Brian relentlessly, most often as some sort of misguided defense of Mike as it seems to appear, are never called "Brian haters." What's with that?

Granted, if you go to a concert with Mike's band, you're predominantly hearing Brian's music, so you must not hate his talents.  But some of you never give the man a break, even with that particular fact being part of the whole equation.

Please be so kind as to point me in the direction of anyone who hates Brian? I have been here for years and nobody treats Brian in the manner that Mike is treated. Not even close. Some of us do not think Brian saintly, as you do, but on the whole, we understand Brian's importance and understand the struggles he has endured. Personally, I don't know any of the guys enough to hate any of them. I don't think any of the bandmembers hate each other, either.

Ah, and I wasn't disappointed by the replies to this question.  Somehow my comment indicates that I think Brian is "saintly."  Yep, that's what I said, um, where exactly?

I have never read where you negatively criticized Brian since you joined here, yet you defend people who trash Mike. Nice move. When you first joined here, you thought I was criticizing Brian and you flew off the handle. It's the same reason why I don't like any of the bandmembers getting ripped in here. I just think that it is possible to criticize without the name calling.

I have no idea what you mean by my "flying off the handle" - please explain how I did this.  So if I have failed to "negatively criticize" Brian I think he's a saint?  Again, I don't understand.  There seems to be another standard for me somehow.  As far as name-calling, when did I ever do that?

I didn't say that you name called, what I said is that you defended the Mike haters who named-called. Secondly, when you first posted on this board you misread something I posted. It was an example, a for instance, type of thing and you got all out of sorts over it. You ran right to the Mods over it. As for criticizing Brian, I have no example, as you have never done so, which was my initial point. And loving Brian like that is fine. I have no issues with that. Every person in the Beach Boys had their share of issues, which is fine to discuss here. I am only asking that we discuss it rationally and peacefully. A lot of this stuff happened decades ago, and there really is no need to get in each other's faces defending or disagreeing with it today. Nothing that is said in here can change what has already happened.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to my defending Mike-haters and running to the mods over something you said.

[drbeachboy]

You know, I'm going back to the original subject right now because I have a question.  I'm rather fascinated by the fact that anyone who objects to anything Mike does, or doesn't like some of his music is treated like a "Mike hater."  But those who attack Brian relentlessly, most often as some sort of misguided defense of Mike as it seems to appear, are never called "Brian haters." What's with that?

Granted, if you go to a concert with Mike's band, you're predominantly hearing Brian's music, so you must not hate his talents.  But some of you never give the man a break, even with that particular fact being part of the whole equation.

Please be so kind as to point me in the direction of anyone who hates Brian? I have been here for years and nobody treats Brian in the manner that Mike is treated. Not even close. Some of us do not think Brian saintly, as you do, but on the whole, we understand Brian's importance and understand the struggles he has endured. Personally, I don't know any of the guys enough to hate any of them. I don't think any of the bandmembers hate each other, either.

Ah, and I wasn't disappointed by the replies to this question.  Somehow my comment indicates that I think Brian is "saintly."  Yep, that's what I said, um, where exactly?

I have never read where you negatively criticized Brian since you joined here, yet you defend people who trash Mike. Nice move. When you first joined here, you thought I was criticizing Brian and you flew off the handle. It's the same reason why I don't like any of the bandmembers getting ripped in here. I just think that it is possible to criticize without the name calling.

I have no idea what you mean by my "flying off the handle" - please explain how I did this.  So if I have failed to "negatively criticize" Brian I think he's a saint?  Again, I don't understand.  There seems to be another standard for me somehow.  As far as name-calling, when did I ever do that?

I didn't say that you name called, what I said is that you defended the Mike haters who named-called. Secondly, when you first posted on this board you misread something I posted. It was an example, a for instance, type of thing and you got all out of sorts over it. You ran right to the Mods over it. As for criticizing Brian, I have no example, as you have never done so, which was my initial point. And loving Brian like that is fine. I have no issues with that. Every person in the Beach Boys had their share of issues, which is fine to discuss here. I am only asking that we discuss it rationally and peacefully. A lot of this stuff happened decades ago, and there really is no need to get in each other's faces defending or disagreeing with it today. Nothing that is said in here can change what has already happened.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to my defending Mike-haters and running to the mods over something you said.

Well, if you don't know, then we are done here. Cya!

[Ang Jones]

Mike's beard, didn't take long for you to attack Debbie again........

Hmmmmm, I do believe she attacked me first. Just responding in kind.

Not in kind at all. And totally out of order. I would never post an insulting made up image of Mike on this forum. I try to keep my comments down to specific criticisms of his behaviour rather than just call names.

[Mike's Beard]

You know, I'm going back to the original subject right now because I have a question.  I'm rather fascinated by the fact that anyone who objects to anything Mike does, or doesn't like some of his music is treated like a "Mike hater."  But those who attack Brian relentlessly, most often as some sort of misguided defense of Mike as it seems to appear, are never called "Brian haters." What's with that?

Granted, if you go to a concert with Mike's band, you're predominantly hearing Brian's music, so you must not hate his talents.  But some of you never give the man a break, even with that particular fact being part of the whole equation.

Please be so kind as to point me in the direction of anyone who hates Brian? I have been here for years and nobody treats Brian in the manner that Mike is treated. Not even close. Some of us do not think Brian saintly, as you do, but on the whole, we understand Brian's importance and understand the struggles he has endured. Personally, I don't know any of the guys enough to hate any of them. I don't think any of the bandmembers hate each other, either.

Ah, and I wasn't disappointed by the replies to this question.  Somehow my comment indicates that I think Brian is "saintly."  Yep, that's what I said, um, where exactly?

I have never read where you negatively criticized Brian since you joined here, yet you defend people who trash Mike. Nice move. When you first joined here, you thought I was criticizing Brian and you flew off the handle. It's the same reason why I don't like any of the bandmembers getting ripped in here. I just think that it is possible to criticize without the name calling.

I have no idea what you mean by my "flying off the handle" - please explain how I did this.  So if I have failed to "negatively criticize" Brian I think he's a saint?  Again, I don't understand.  There seems to be another standard for me somehow.  As far as name-calling, when did I ever do that?

I didn't say that you name called, what I said is that you defended the Mike haters who named-called. Secondly, when you first posted on this board you misread something I posted. It was an example, a for instance, type of thing and you got all out of sorts over it. You ran right to the Mods over it. As for criticizing Brian, I have no example, as you have never done so, which was my initial point. And loving Brian like that is fine. I have no issues with that. Every person in the Beach Boys had their share of issues, which is fine to discuss here. I am only asking that we discuss it rationally and peacefully. A lot of this stuff happened decades ago, and there really is no need to get in each other's faces defending or disagreeing with it today. Nothing that is said in here can change what has already happened.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to my defending Mike-haters and running to the mods over something you said.

Well, if you don't know, then we are done here. Cya!

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Mike's beard, didn't take long for you to attack Debbie again........

Hmmmmm, I do believe she attacked me first. Just responding in kind.

Well...

Nobody has made nastier comments about Brian than you, on a regular basis - please note the previous posts here pointing out what you've said.  Yet, apparently there's no one here who hates Brian, according to you.  So what makes you think that people who don't like something Mike said or recorded are Mike haters?  Please explain the difference?  That WAS my original question after all.

That wasn't an attack, it was a question.

That wasn't an attack? And I did answer her loaded question which she totally ignored.

No, it wasn't an attack, it was a fact.* An attack would've been (and keep in mind this is a hypothetical, not me actually saying this ) 'you're a dumb fucking asshole who does nothing but attack Brian'.  Or calling those who don't share your opinions as 'hero worshipping fanboys (and girls).

If it's untrue, then it's an attack.
But please list all the nasty things I apparently regularly say about Brian.

Maybe more accurate to say you say nasty things about people who happen to feel the way about Brian that you do about Mike.

I mentally do this  Roll Eyes whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson. You love some dude you don't actually know because he makes music you really like? And now he's a prophet who 'speaks for an entire generation of human beings'? Is that what all those mediocre songs on NPP were doing? People who have some fantasy fixation on One Direction have an excuse in that they are about 12 years old - what's Lana's excuse?

Brian doesn't need to say anything. The guy twigged a long time ago that the frothing at the mouth section of his fanbase will do all his fighting for him.

^ just two examples.

[guitarfool2002]

Maybe discussing why someone does or doesn't like NPP or any album using actual reasons instead of dismissing it or ridiculing it would have been better. If the words "rubbish" and "dogshit" are used to describe an album, should there be no expectation that others might challenge it or is it just a case of trying to provoke arguments?

[guitarfool2002]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

[rab2591]

I mentally do this  Roll Eyes whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson. You love some dude you don't actually know because he makes music you really like? And now he's a prophet who 'speaks for an entire generation of human beings'? Is that what all those mediocre songs on NPP were doing? People who have some fantasy fixation on One Direction have an excuse in that they are about 12 years old - what's Lana's excuse?

And exactly the words I'd expect from someone who doesn't get it. Probably why he's blatantly unremorseful for calling Brian's album a pile of dogshit. In case you didn't realize, Mike's Beard, again, Brian puts his heart and soul into his music. This is a rather an obvious takeaway from the mountain of books, interviews, even the new movie. It's a rather obvious takeaway from the music itself. With this in mind it's not that surprising that actual fans of his music feel a connection, an attachment to Brian...Even if we don't "know" him. But given your post history it doesn't surprise me that you find this concept so foreign.

In the last 4 days you've compared NPP to canine feces, claim people are "crying" because they get irritated when they read your drivel, claim you can't stand Brian Wilson fanboys and girls yet you clog up the board with this type of nonsense. Unbelievable.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

[Debbie KL]

I guess those guys won't be answering my question then...

[Smilin Ed H]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Amen.

[guitarfool2002]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

[drbeachboy]

I guess those guys won't be answering my question then...

No Ma'am, I won't be. You ain't worth getting banned over.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

No armchair quarterbacking, I made the third post in this thread.  Threads made to call out specific members of the band are useless and idiotic.  Yeah there was some good info in this thread, maybe a couple pages worth?  Someone could have made a separate thread like you did with that lawsuit Mike had.  

[guitarfool2002]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

No armchair quarterbacking, I made the third post in this thread.  Threads made to call out specific members of the band are useless and idiotic.  Yeah there was some good info in this thread, maybe a couple pages worth?  Someone could have made a separate thread like you did with that lawsuit Mike had.  

As mentioned, some would say devoting a thread to reposting negative reviews the weeks after a new album got released and including such journalistic powerhouses as a student newspaper from Australia among them was useless and idiotic as well, should that have been stopped before it got started as well? Maybe so.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

No armchair quarterbacking, I made the third post in this thread.  Threads made to call out specific members of the band are useless and idiotic.  Yeah there was some good info in this thread, maybe a couple pages worth?  Someone could have made a separate thread like you did with that lawsuit Mike had.  

As mentioned, some would say devoting a thread to reposting negative reviews the weeks after a new album got released and including such journalistic powerhouses as a student newspaper from Australia among them was useless and idiotic as well, should that have been stopped before it got started as well? Maybe so.

No, because that is about the material, not the person.  If Ian wanted to come back and create a thread titled "Why do you hate SIP" I'd be have no problem with it.

[Smilin Ed H]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

No armchair quarterbacking, I made the third post in this thread.  Threads made to call out specific members of the band are useless and idiotic.  Yeah there was some good info in this thread, maybe a couple pages worth?  Someone could have made a separate thread like you did with that lawsuit Mike had.  

Amen.
Again.

For some, this is like a red rag to a bull and, as has been demonstrated on far too many occasions and not just in this thread, some refuse to see logic, refuse to understand the concept of actual evidence and just use threads like this to wind each other up, say dumb things and piss off other people who come to the board. It's as bad a thread as the one about AGD - which was closed, thankfully.

[Mike's Beard]

I mentally do this  Roll Eyes whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson. You love some dude you don't actually know because he makes music you really like? And now he's a prophet who 'speaks for an entire generation of human beings'? Is that what all those mediocre songs on NPP were doing? People who have some fantasy fixation on One Direction have an excuse in that they are about 12 years old - what's Lana's excuse?

And exactly the words I'd expect from someone who doesn't get it. Probably why he's blatantly unremorseful for calling Brian's album a pile of dogshit. In case you didn't realize, Mike's Beard, again, Brian puts his heart and soul into his music. This is a rather an obvious takeaway from the mountain of books, interviews, even the new movie. It's a rather obvious takeaway from the music itself. With this in mind it's not that surprising that actual fans of his music feel a connection, an attachment to Brian...Even if we don't "know" him. But given your post history it doesn't surprise me that you find this concept so foreign.

In the last 4 days you've compared NPP to canine feces, claim people are "crying" because they get irritated when they read your drivel, claim you can't stand Brian Wilson fanboys and girls yet you clog up the board with this type of nonsense. Unbelievable.

Context is everything so they say. Did you read Lana's initial post in thread quoted? If that wasn't a Brianista taking their absurd devotion to the nth degree then I don't know what is.

[guitarfool2002]

I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post. 

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

No armchair quarterbacking, I made the third post in this thread.  Threads made to call out specific members of the band are useless and idiotic.  Yeah there was some good info in this thread, maybe a couple pages worth?  Someone could have made a separate thread like you did with that lawsuit Mike had. 

As mentioned, some would say devoting a thread to reposting negative reviews the weeks after a new album got released and including such journalistic powerhouses as a student newspaper from Australia among them was useless and idiotic as well, should that have been stopped before it got started as well? Maybe so.

No, because that is about the material, not the person.  If Ian wanted to come back and create a thread titled "Why do you hate SIP" I'd be have no problem with it.

Oh, so there is a difference? Do you really think the purpose of dredging up negative reviews and reposting them here was about the material more than it was about the person who made the album?

As far as Ian's original intent, let's take it further and see if he gets the benefit of the doubt. What if there was a music writer who was researching an article about The Beatles and wanted to know why fans hate Yoko Ono? Or why KISS fans hate Gene Simmons? How would that writer go about addressing it to a community of fans who would most likely be the best sources of information, if the purpose was to actually find out why from the fans themselves?

There was a story about a fan of Slash who went to one of Axl Rose's GnR shows wearing a Slash t-shirt, Axl spotted him and went berzerk on the guy. Again, benefit of the doubt, what if a writer doing an article wanted to find out where that hostility came from, or why some fans either hate Slash or Axl, who better to ask than the fans if you want to hear opinions?

[guitarfool2002]

I mentally do this  Roll Eyes whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson. You love some dude you don't actually know because he makes music you really like? And now he's a prophet who 'speaks for an entire generation of human beings'? Is that what all those mediocre songs on NPP were doing? People who have some fantasy fixation on One Direction have an excuse in that they are about 12 years old - what's Lana's excuse?

And exactly the words I'd expect from someone who doesn't get it. Probably why he's blatantly unremorseful for calling Brian's album a pile of dogshit. In case you didn't realize, Mike's Beard, again, Brian puts his heart and soul into his music. This is a rather an obvious takeaway from the mountain of books, interviews, even the new movie. It's a rather obvious takeaway from the music itself. With this in mind it's not that surprising that actual fans of his music feel a connection, an attachment to Brian...Even if we don't "know" him. But given your post history it doesn't surprise me that you find this concept so foreign.

In the last 4 days you've compared NPP to canine feces, claim people are "crying" because they get irritated when they read your drivel, claim you can't stand Brian Wilson fanboys and girls yet you clog up the board with this type of nonsense. Unbelievable.

Context is everything so they say. Did you read Lana's initial post in thread quoted? If that wasn't a Brianista taking their absurd devotion to the nth degree then I don't know what is.

And you're able to judge the level of "absurd devotion" based on what you agree or disagree with enough to take it to this level? So in return, maybe to further a greater understanding of all this, what would be the threshold of this "absurd devotion" shown to Mike if fans might be doing that as well? Or what are the signs to look for and spot if that appears to be the case with someone posting?

[rab2591]

I mentally do this  Roll Eyes whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson. You love some dude you don't actually know because he makes music you really like? And now he's a prophet who 'speaks for an entire generation of human beings'? Is that what all those mediocre songs on NPP were doing? People who have some fantasy fixation on One Direction have an excuse in that they are about 12 years old - what's Lana's excuse?

And exactly the words I'd expect from someone who doesn't get it. Probably why he's blatantly unremorseful for calling Brian's album a pile of dogshit. In case you didn't realize, Mike's Beard, again, Brian puts his heart and soul into his music. This is a rather an obvious takeaway from the mountain of books, interviews, even the new movie. It's a rather obvious takeaway from the music itself. With this in mind it's not that surprising that actual fans of his music feel a connection, an attachment to Brian...Even if we don't "know" him. But given your post history it doesn't surprise me that you find this concept so foreign.

In the last 4 days you've compared NPP to canine feces, claim people are "crying" because they get irritated when they read your drivel, claim you can't stand Brian Wilson fanboys and girls yet you clog up the board with this type of nonsense. Unbelievable.

Context is everything so they say. Did you read Lana's initial post in thread quoted? If that wasn't a Brianista taking their absurd devotion to the nth degree then I don't know what is.

Context? Your exact words were "I mentally do this whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson.". A grain of logic would tell me the word "whenever" then applies to whenever you read such a statement, and that whenever you read it you roll your eyes (a physical expression of disbelief or disapproval) at the thought of someone feeling a strong connection/attachment to Brian because of his music. The context of Lana's post has nothing to do with it, sport.

[Mike's Beard]

I mentally do this  Roll Eyes whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson. You love some dude you don't actually know because he makes music you really like? And now he's a prophet who 'speaks for an entire generation of human beings'? Is that what all those mediocre songs on NPP were doing? People who have some fantasy fixation on One Direction have an excuse in that they are about 12 years old - what's Lana's excuse?

And exactly the words I'd expect from someone who doesn't get it. Probably why he's blatantly unremorseful for calling Brian's album a pile of dogshit. In case you didn't realize, Mike's Beard, again, Brian puts his heart and soul into his music. This is a rather an obvious takeaway from the mountain of books, interviews, even the new movie. It's a rather obvious takeaway from the music itself. With this in mind it's not that surprising that actual fans of his music feel a connection, an attachment to Brian...Even if we don't "know" him. But given your post history it doesn't surprise me that you find this concept so foreign.

In the last 4 days you've compared NPP to canine feces, claim people are "crying" because they get irritated when they read your drivel, claim you can't stand Brian Wilson fanboys and girls yet you clog up the board with this type of nonsense. Unbelievable.

Context is everything so they say. Did you read Lana's initial post in thread quoted? If that wasn't a Brianista taking their absurd devotion to the nth degree then I don't know what is.

And you're able to judge the level of "absurd devotion" based on what you agree or disagree with enough to take it to this level? So in return, maybe to further a greater understanding of all this, what would be the threshold of this "absurd devotion" shown to Mike if fans might be doing that as well? Or what are the signs to look for and spot if that appears to be the case with someone posting?

Giving constant praise of John Stamos, threatening to sue posters and quoting lines of old songs when constructing sentences.

[Mike's Beard]

Context? Your exact words were "I mentally do this whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson.". A grain of logic would tell me the word "whenever" then applies to whenever you read such a statement, and that whenever you read it you roll your eyes (a physical expression of disbelief or disapproval) at the thought of someone feeling a strong connection/attachment to Brian because of his music. The context of Lana's post has nothing to do with it, sport.

Err, it did because I happened to be the one who wrote it and knew exactly what I was addressing. The love of Brian's music is not the same as someone who feels they REALLY LOVE Brian Wilson. That whole post had a creepy Mark David Chapman vibe going for it.

[KDS]

The most extreme level on this sort of fan debate occurred on December 8, 2004, oddly enough 24 years to the day that John Lennon was killed.

Damageplan, featuring Dimebag Darrell and Vinnie Paul from the defunct band Pantera were playing a club show in Ohio.  

A disgruntled and mentally ill Pantera fan showed up and killed Dimebag Darrell right on the stage in front of a horrified crowd because he "blamed him for breaking up Pantera."  

An extreme incident like this goes to show that these band members we all discuss are real people with real lives.  

I sincerely doubt that anyone on this board would go to those extremes, but it's just some food for thought.  Life is way too short.  

[rab2591]

Context? Your exact words were "I mentally do this whenever I read someone say they love Brian Wilson.". A grain of logic would tell me the word "whenever" then applies to whenever you read such a statement, and that whenever you read it you roll your eyes (a physical expression of disbelief or disapproval) at the thought of someone feeling a strong connection/attachment to Brian because of his music. The context of Lana's post has nothing to do with it, sport.

Err, it did because I happened to be the one who wrote it and knew exactly what I was addressing. The love of Brian's music is not the same as someone who feels they REALLY LOVE Brian Wilson. That whole post had a creepy Mark David Chapman vibe going for it.

Err, so you write the term "whenever" yet claim you're only talking about that one specific instance with Lana? Gotcha. And I specifically made clear was talking about a love for Brian, not his music.