Why do you hate Mike Love?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response"

^Found this on songfacts and got a chuckle. Isn't it well known that they invited Brian to the Kokomo sessions only at the last minute so he wouldn't make it?

And if true, this really should have made it obvious to everyone that it was the movie exposure, not the songs merits, that made Kokomo a #1 hit. It really was a fluke success and it's a shame Mike was so blinded by ego he couldn't see it or wouldn't admit it.

[Ang Jones]

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

You say the story wasn't fact-checked - you know this for a fact? Uhhhh no you don't. I'd be hard pressed to believe the reporter (who again works for the most respected and well known and 2nd most circulated newspaper of all time) didn't call up Mike and/or fax the story over to give Mike the chance to deny it and tell his side of the story. That's how it's usually done when it comes to major newspapers. But great that you magically know this story wasn't fact-checked.

I still don't understand how Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on a few Twitter posts has anything to do with him recalling a story from 8 years prior.

Those twitter posts are apparently there to educate the public.  And, they are false. Those are two I picked up on because I've done some research in both areas.

And, I don't put too much stock in the LA Times.  They (the media) are subject to error and manipulation like ABC news and George Stephanopoulos, being a Clinton operative and donor to the Clinton foundation and still working the political beat. Unbiased? Not. I think it is naive to think the media is all on the level.

Again, you still aren't telling me what some trivial wrong facts from a few Twitter posts in 2014+ has to do with a newspaper article in the New York Times from the year 2000. You keep monotonously reiterating this Twitter argument without making a clear connection between the two.

As for your outlook on certain newspapers and news outlets, I couldn't care less what your opinion is about them. I see that Mike has never publicly denied this story, nor was the NYTs forced to the redact the story. And it's a pretty popular story that has circulated numerous times on this very board that Mike supposedly reads while he eats his Wheaties in the morning. So again, I'm hard pressed to believe that this is all a fabrication.

Whatever the story is, doesn't affect me.  So I don't care.

Posts #379, #382, #386, and #393 refute that.

Rab-he made two boo-boos in less than a week. He was called out on the Abner Doubleday on his twitter. I'm won't be joining twitter to joust with him.  He can't even tell you what his lyrics mean. Fans wondered for decades, what do they mean. It is not unimportant.

Where is the cred of a lyricist who cannot explain his work? Writers can generally tell where their imagery is coming from or what inspired them. He can't.

That is three strikes in my book!

He is O-U-T!  

Three strikes and VDP is out according to you. How many strikes does it take to get Mike out?

As for the Cabinessence lyric, sometimes we have to search for our own meanings, which doesn't mean the lyricist didn't include them. This from Wikipedia:

"Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield
Over and over the thresher and hovers the wheatfield

"If the listener rearranges the last half of each line, they get "over and over the crow cries and hovers the wheatfield / over and over the thresher uncovers the cornfield", which makes them clearer. Parks penned additional lyrics to Cabinessence not heard on any official release, nor bootlegged. They are unknown to have ever been recorded during tracking sessions..."

Are these the reconnected telephone lyrics or something else I don't know about?

I assumed the reconnected telephone lyrics but I don't know if that is true.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I'm half tempted to move this sh*t to the Sandbox.

Best idea yet. (But I recommend not remaining "half" tempted.)

Is the issue with the topic itself?

It's just tiresome, and I get turned off on these constant threads that seem to have no purpose other than to denigrate someone.

Agreed. And as someone who seems to be tagged as a 'Mike Love apologist' I can honestly say that
I think Mike has made a few misguided artistic decisions in his time,
Was a dick to force out any BB associates who weren't in to TM,
Made an ass of himself at the R&R Hall of Fame,
Made a bigger ass of himself by trying to make a lawsuit out of a newspaper using a BBs photo on a free Brian solo cd,
Should choose his words more carefully when commenting on his cousin's mental health.

That's no reason to HATE a guy you don't actually know. It's not like anyone here has had Mike
f*** their wive or significant other,
Break into their house in the middle of the night and devour their babies,
Back over their dog and drive away,
Steal their bike (remember that old chestnut?),
Swindle them out of their life's savings,
Kidnapp them, lock them in a room chained to a chair and forced them to listen to Country Love on a loop.

Get a grip people.

The fact that you can admit all that means you're *NOT* an apologist. An apologist is someone like...well, yknow...who literally will not admit fault ever. Who has a deflection, baseless speculative excuse and dismissal prepared for any legitimate criticism of Mike.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

You say the story wasn't fact-checked - you know this for a fact? Uhhhh no you don't. I'd be hard pressed to believe the reporter (who again works for the most respected and well known and 2nd most circulated newspaper of all time) didn't call up Mike and/or fax the story over to give Mike the chance to deny it and tell his side of the story. That's how it's usually done when it comes to major newspapers. But great that you magically know this story wasn't fact-checked.

I still don't understand how Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on a few Twitter posts has anything to do with him recalling a story from 8 years prior.

Those twitter posts are apparently there to educate the public.  And, they are false. Those are two I picked up on because I've done some research in both areas.

And, I don't put too much stock in the LA Times.  They (the media) are subject to error and manipulation like ABC news and George Stephanopoulos, being a Clinton operative and donor to the Clinton foundation and still working the political beat. Unbiased? Not. I think it is naive to think the media is all on the level.

Again, you still aren't telling me what some trivial wrong facts from a few Twitter posts in 2014+ has to do with a newspaper article in the New York Times from the year 2000. You keep monotonously reiterating this Twitter argument without making a clear connection between the two.

As for your outlook on certain newspapers and news outlets, I couldn't care less what your opinion is about them. I see that Mike has never publicly denied this story, nor was the NYTs forced to the redact the story. And it's a pretty popular story that has circulated numerous times on this very board that Mike supposedly reads while he eats his Wheaties in the morning. So again, I'm hard pressed to believe that this is all a fabrication.

Whatever the story is, doesn't affect me.  So I don't care.

Posts #379, #382, #386, and #393 refute that.

Rab-he made two boo-boos in less than a week. He was called out on the Abner Doubleday on his twitter. I'm won't be joining twitter to joust with him.  He can't even tell you what his lyrics mean. Fans wondered for decades, what do they mean. It is not unimportant.

Where is the cred of a lyricist who cannot explain his work? Writers can generally tell where their imagery is coming from or what inspired them. He can't.

That is three strikes in my book!

He is O-U-T!  

Three strikes and VDP is out according to you. How many strikes does it take to get Mike out?

As for the Cabinessence lyric, sometimes we have to search for our own meanings, which doesn't mean the lyricist didn't include them. This from Wikipedia:

"Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield
Over and over the thresher and hovers the wheatfield

"If the listener rearranges the last half of each line, they get "over and over the crow cries and hovers the wheatfield / over and over the thresher uncovers the cornfield", which makes them clearer. Parks penned additional lyrics to Cabinessence not heard on any official release, nor bootlegged. They are unknown to have ever been recorded during tracking sessions..."

Are these the reconnected telephone lyrics or something else I don't know about?

I assumed the reconnected telephone lyrics but I don't know if that is true.

Thanks

[Cam Mott]

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response"

^Found this on songfacts and got a chuckle. Isn't it well known that they invited Brian to the Kokomo sessions only at the last minute so he wouldn't make it?

And if true, this really should have made it obvious to everyone that it was the movie exposure, not the songs merits, that made Kokomo a #1 hit. It really was a fluke success and it's a shame Mike was so blinded by ego he couldn't see it or wouldn't admit it.

It is probably hard to sort out because the single was released July 18 1988 and the movie was released July 29 1988. 

[Autotune]

Was Brian ever invited to take part in the SIP sessions? I always thought it was odd that that is the only BB's album with no Brian involvement whatsoever. Did he refuse to record with them?

Mike has claimed that Brian was invited, but that Landy kept Brian from participating.

Oh.  Well there you go.

Consider in 1989-90 the accounts of the band deliberately scheduling sessions so Brian wouldn't be able to make it, among other similar things. Look it up, ask around, etc. So they wanted him back after asking him to make music with them, but set it up so he wouldn't be able to make it?

Dont't forget the "you got Brian, you got me" Landy line. I think they were aware that having
Brian around meant going through the pain in the ass that was Dr. Landy. Perhaps they were avoiding the insane working situation that having Landy on board meant.

[CenturyDeprived]

Was Brian ever invited to take part in the SIP sessions? I always thought it was odd that that is the only BB's album with no Brian involvement whatsoever. Did he refuse to record with them?

Mike has claimed that Brian was invited, but that Landy kept Brian from participating.

Oh.  Well there you go.

Consider in 1989-90 the accounts of the band deliberately scheduling sessions so Brian wouldn't be able to make it, among other similar things. Look it up, ask around, etc. So they wanted him back after asking him to make music with them, but set it up so he wouldn't be able to make it?

Dont't forget the "you got Brian, you got me" Landy line. I think they were aware that having
Brian around meant going through the pain in the ass that was Dr. Landy. Perhaps they were avoiding the insane working situation that having Landy on board meant.

That is indeed more than likely. Why Brian wasn't on SIP, recorded post-Landy, is another story entirely, which may have more to do with resentment over the bio.

[Emdeeh]

Dont't forget the "you got Brian, you got me" Landy line. I think they were aware that having Brian around meant going through the pain in the ass that was Dr. Landy. Perhaps they were avoiding the insane working situation that having Landy on board meant.

Or invitations were issued, and Landy intercepted them.



Edit: I changed the name of the topic in my reply.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Consider in 1989-90 the accounts of the band deliberately scheduling sessions so Brian wouldn't be able to make it, among other similar things. Look it up, ask around, etc. So they wanted him back after asking him to make music with them, but set it up so he wouldn't be able to make it?

Entirely untrue: Brian was invited to the sessions in good time. However, and you may find this amazing, but it's true, the invite never got further than the "in" tray on the desk in Landy's office at Brains & Genius. Another sterling business decision by the Good Doctor.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response"

^Found this on songfacts and got a chuckle. Isn't it well known that they invited Brian to the Kokomo sessions only at the last minute so he wouldn't make it?

And if true, this really should have made it obvious to everyone that it was the movie exposure, not the songs merits, that made Kokomo a #1 hit. It really was a fluke success and it's a shame Mike was so blinded by ego he couldn't see it or wouldn't admit it.

"Kokomo" released July 18th

Cocktail released July 29th (hardly "a few months later": try "eleven days later")

"Kokomo" debuts on Billboard Hot 100 September 3rd, at #96

If the movie was solely, or even mainly, responsible for the song's popularity, why didn't it chart early August ?  It surely helped, but nopt as much as many would assume.

Moral: don't believe everything  you read on the internet.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response"

^Found this on songfacts and got a chuckle. Isn't it well known that they invited Brian to the Kokomo sessions only at the last minute so he wouldn't make it?

And if true, this really should have made it obvious to everyone that it was the movie exposure, not the songs merits, that made Kokomo a #1 hit. It really was a fluke success and it's a shame Mike was so blinded by ego he couldn't see it or wouldn't admit it.

"Kokomo" released July 18th

Cocktail released July 29th (hardly "a few months later": try "eleven days later")

"Kokomo" debuts on Billboard Hot 100 September 3rd, at #96

If the movie was solely, or even mainly, responsible for the song's popularity, why didn't it chart early August ?

Moral: don't believe everything  you read on the internet.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just the facts, ma'am. Sir. Whatever.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Just the facts, ma'am. Sir. Whatever.

cant fault a guy for setting things straight

[filledeplage]

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response"

^Found this on songfacts and got a chuckle. Isn't it well known that they invited Brian to the Kokomo sessions only at the last minute so he wouldn't make it?

And if true, this really should have made it obvious to everyone that it was the movie exposure, not the songs merits, that made Kokomo a #1 hit. It really was a fluke success and it's a shame Mike was so blinded by ego he couldn't see it or wouldn't admit it.

"Kokomo" released July 18th

Cocktail released July 29th (hardly "a few months later": try "eleven days later")

"Kokomo" debuts on Billboard Hot 100 September 3rd, at #96

If the movie was solely, or even mainly, responsible for the song's popularity, why didn't it chart early August ?  It surely helped, but nopt as much as many would assume.

Moral: don't believe everything  you read on the internet.

Andrew -  is there info on when the Kokomo video was released?

VH1 and MTV were gaining real traction then, and there seemed to be more watching music videos rather than listening to radio.  Thank you.

[guitarfool2002]

Splitting hairs. The song's main vehicle was the movie. Mike himself in an interview said the filmmakers needed and requested a specific tropical-sounding song to fill a specific scene in the film, and Mike and his cowriters went back and reworked Papa John's Kokomo into what we know it as for that request, adding a hook that wasn't in the original. The only place you could buy the song Kokomo on an album at the time was the Cocktail soundtrack.

Why didn't it chart in the weeks after it was released? How many songs go "#1 with a bullet" as the radio guys used to say? It built momentum just like the film itself. Word of mouth, etc. The more people that went to see the film, the more people got interested in the music featured in it. MTV eventually had the video in regular rotation too. But should it have been expected that a soundtrack single go straight to top-10 within weeks, or is it more common that a song builds momentum and climbs the charts as more people start buying it and requesting it and it gets added to both radio and MTV playlists in heavier rotation?

There would be no Kokomo by The Beach Boys if it weren't for Cocktail, if you want to believe Mike's version of events.

And did the Beach Boys mail invitations for Brian to attend recording sessions at this time? 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not splitting hairs, rather disproving a "fact" offered up in evidence.

As for the invite, someone - Elliott Lott, presumably - called B&G and the secretary put the details on Landy's desk, where it stayed. Carol Kaye told me. She was there.

Also: "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" - released 6/8/86, charted 6/28/86.

"Still Cruisin'" - released 8/7/89, charted 8/26/89.

I never said anything about it screaming up the charts, just that it was a strangely long time between the release and the debut. Nearly twice as long as the two singles noted above. Granted, they didn't hang around too long but the point is valid.

[Cam Mott]

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response"

^Found this on songfacts and got a chuckle. Isn't it well known that they invited Brian to the Kokomo sessions only at the last minute so he wouldn't make it?

And if true, this really should have made it obvious to everyone that it was the movie exposure, not the songs merits, that made Kokomo a #1 hit. It really was a fluke success and it's a shame Mike was so blinded by ego he couldn't see it or wouldn't admit it.

"Kokomo" released July 18th

Cocktail released July 29th (hardly "a few months later": try "eleven days later")

"Kokomo" debuts on Billboard Hot 100 September 3rd, at #96

If the movie was solely, or even mainly, responsible for the song's popularity, why didn't it chart early August ?  It surely helped, but nopt as much as many would assume.

Moral: don't believe everything  you read on the internet.

I agree, it certainly wasn't the way that said. I'm sure the movie helped but probably not as much as some fans want to think.

Kokomo was already getting airplay by the earliest of August. It was already at #22 in Easton PA on August 1. In Milwaukee it started at #29 on August 5 and was #1 by September 23 and then for several weeks.

I wonder if it opened in limited or wide release? I wonder what percentage of the record's buyers were too young to have seen the movie?  How many people on this board bought it because it was in the movie?

[Cam Mott]

Cam, did SC really do badly? I heard that it went Platinum, though not sure how long it took to reach that status. As I recall, I thought I remember it selling pretty well.

Maybe you are right. According to Wikipedia (which is never wrong) "Still Cruisin' (Capitol) reached #46 in the U.S. during a chart stay of 22 weeks".

That's pretty damn good. Maybe low sales performance wasn't Capitol's issue at all with the second album. Maybe it was inability to comply with Capitol's terms.  

Thanks Landy.

And Obama.

[Gerry]

yeah, damn that Obama

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response"

^Found this on songfacts and got a chuckle. Isn't it well known that they invited Brian to the Kokomo sessions only at the last minute so he wouldn't make it?

And if true, this really should have made it obvious to everyone that it was the movie exposure, not the songs merits, that made Kokomo a #1 hit. It really was a fluke success and it's a shame Mike was so blinded by ego he couldn't see it or wouldn't admit it.

"Kokomo" released July 18th

Cocktail released July 29th (hardly "a few months later": try "eleven days later")

"Kokomo" debuts on Billboard Hot 100 September 3rd, at #96

If the movie was solely, or even mainly, responsible for the song's popularity, why didn't it chart early August ?  It surely helped, but nopt as much as many would assume.

Moral: don't believe everything  you read on the internet.

I agree, it certainly wasn't the way that said. I'm sure the movie helped but probably not as much as some fans want to think.

Kokomo was already getting airplay by the earliest of August. It was already at #22 in Easton PA on August 1. In Milwaukee it started at #29 on August 5 and was #1 by September 23 and then for several weeks.

I wonder if it opened in limited or wide release? I wonder what percentage of the record's buyers were too young to have seen the movie?  How many people on this board bought it because it was in the movie?

Isnt that still all after the movie tho?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

yeah, damn that Obama

Sanders ftw, yo. Feel the Bern

[Cam Mott]

Isnt that still all after the movie tho?

Yes but not months after and Kokomo was already charting in the 20s when the movie was released.

You do realize "Thanks Obama" is an ironic joke, right?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Consider in 1989-90 the accounts of the band deliberately scheduling sessions so Brian wouldn't be able to make it, among other similar things. Look it up, ask around, etc. So they wanted him back after asking him to make music with them, but set it up so he wouldn't be able to make it?

Entirely untrue: Brian was invited to the sessions in good time. However, and you may find this amazing, but it's true, the invite never got further than the "in" tray on the desk in Landy's office at Brains & Genius. Another sterling business decision by the Good Doctor.

Of course Brian was invited. This is the only, um, place that ever questioned it.

I just did a quick check of Brian's involvement with The Beach Boys during Landy's second era:

- 1984 East Meets West
- 1985 The Beach Boys (album)
- 1986 Rock And Roll To The Rescue
- 1986 California Dreamin'
- 1987 Happy Endings
- 1987 Wipeout
- 1988 Kokomo (Spanish version)
- 1989 Still Cruisin' (album)

It appears that whenever The Beach Boys recorded from 1983-1989, Brian was involved. So why, after having Brian participate in every recording project of that time period, would they pick that one project, Kokomo, to omit him? Brian was also on several TV appearances with The Beach Boys during that time frame. There are a lot of negative things to be said about Eugene Landy. However, he was able to walk that fine line of having Brian pursue a solo career AND have Brian stay involved with The Beach Boys.  

[18thofMay]

Not splitting hairs, rather disproving a "fact" offered up in evidence.

As for the invite, someone - Elliott Lott, presumably - called B&G and the secretary put the details on Landy's desk, where it stayed. Carol Kaye told me. She was there.

Also: "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" - released 6/8/86, charted 6/28/86.

"Still Cruisin'" - released 8/7/89, charted 8/26/89.

I never said anything about it screaming up the charts, just that it was a strangely long time between the release and the debut. Nearly twice as long as the two singles noted above. Granted, they didn't hang around too long but the point is valid.

The same Carol Kaye?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Splitting hairs. The song's main vehicle was the movie. Mike himself in an interview said the filmmakers needed and requested a specific tropical-sounding song to fill a specific scene in the film, and Mike and his cowriters went back and reworked Papa John's Kokomo into what we know it as for that request, adding a hook that wasn't in the original. The only place you could buy the song Kokomo on an album at the time was the Cocktail soundtrack.

Why didn't it chart in the weeks after it was released? How many songs go "#1 with a bullet" as the radio guys used to say? It built momentum just like the film itself. Word of mouth, etc. The more people that went to see the film, the more people got interested in the music featured in it. MTV eventually had the video in regular rotation too. But should it have been expected that a soundtrack single go straight to top-10 within weeks, or is it more common that a song builds momentum and climbs the charts as more people start buying it and requesting it and it gets added to both radio and MTV playlists in heavier rotation?

There would be no Kokomo by The Beach Boys if it weren't for Cocktail, if you want to believe Mike's version of events.

And did the Beach Boys mail invitations for Brian to attend recording sessions at this time?  

Tis true GF! Cocktail totally broke the song! Also what broke the song was Carl's part, which he nailed! Makes me always enjoy hearing it!