Planned Parenthood exposed -- CAUTION

[Bean Bag]

So what are your credentials Bag? Ever serve in the militaary, in a war zone? Ever a cop or firefighter? Ever coach Special Olympics? Ever volunteer in a soup kitchen? Where do yo get your moral high ground? What is your life experience other than watching Fox News?

My moral high ground would only exist where your's lacks, I suppose. And vice versa.  My credentials you want?  May I ask what I am so honorably applying for?  My Life experience?  Oh wait... I see where this is going. You almost had me going there for a second!  Ha ha!

What else?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

So what are your credentials Bag? Ever serve in the militaary, in a war zone? Ever a cop or firefighter? Ever coach Special Olympics? Ever volunteer in a soup kitchen? Where do yo get your moral high ground? What is your life experience other than watching Fox News?

My moral high ground would only exist where your's lacks, I suppose. And vice versa.  My credentials you want?  May I ask what I am so honorably applying for?  My Life experience?  Oh wait... I see where this is going. You almost had me going there for a second!  Ha ha!

What else?

Your life experience gives validity to your opinion. Based on your posts,  it seems to indicate a life of very little wordly experience!  Certainly, your brand of crazy indicates you never,  for example, studied the New Testament in detail, if you did you certainly didn't take the messages to heart.

[Bean Bag]

My moral high ground would only exist where your's lacks, I suppose. And vice versa.  My credentials you want?  May I ask what I am so honorably applying for?  My Life experience?  Oh wait... I see where this is going. You almost had me going there for a second!  Ha ha!

What else?

Your life experience gives validity to your opinion. Based on your posts,  it seems to indicate a life of very little wordly experience!  Certainly, your brand of crazy indicates you never,  for example, studied the New Testament in detail, if you did you certainly didn't take the messages to heart.

My "brand of crazy?" The New Testament?  What on Earth are you talking about?  Listen, as much as you want to make this about me, and as much as you want to lead me away from the scene of the crime -- I'm not going for a ride. Regardless of how nice the interior is, I'm not gettin' in.  

The fact remains, you're happy when baby murdering factories remain open.  Maybe calling them women's health clinics is enough to pull the wool over your eyes and help you live with yourself -- but my life experiences quickly snap me out of that twisted "worldly experience."  And my credentials are thankfully strong enough to keep me away from your definition of a "clinic."  Just sayin.

[Emily]

My moral high ground would only exist where your's lacks, I suppose. And vice versa.  My credentials you want?  May I ask what I am so honorably applying for?  My Life experience?  Oh wait... I see where this is going. You almost had me going there for a second!  Ha ha!

What else?

Your life experience gives validity to your opinion. Based on your posts,  it seems to indicate a life of very little wordly experience!  Certainly, your brand of crazy indicates you never,  for example, studied the New Testament in detail, if you did you certainly didn't take the messages to heart.

My "brand of crazy?" The New Testament?  What on Earth are you talking about?  Listen, as much as you want to make this about me, and as much as you want to lead me away from the scene of the crime -- I'm not going for a ride. Regardless of how nice the interior is, I'm not gettin' in.  

The fact remains, you're happy when baby murdering factories remain open.  Maybe calling them women's health clinics is enough to pull the wool over your eyes and help you live with yourself -- but my life experiences quickly snap me out of that twisted "worldly experience."  And my credentials are thankfully strong enough to keep me away from your definition of a "clinic."  Just sayin.

My life experiences include getting health services - exams and Pap smears - at Planned Parenthood clinics. It was pretty clinical. No wool was involved.

[filledeplage]

Nope... "selective editing."  Nothing to see here.  

You're never going to convince a Leftist that this is nothing more than a right wing witch hunt.  It's like this... (let me just put my Leftist hood on... it's been awhile... so this might be a little rough...)

That goes both ways easily enough.

Everything goes both ways if you're a Moral Equivalenc-ist.

My responses regarding legality are specific to FdP's assertions and are more to do with what I consider to be an essentially dishonest (though I don't think intentionally so) form of rhetoric. They are not to do generally with the ethics of abortion. Or even the practices of PP.

I see.

So after all the doctored video and the crazy right wing rhetoric whipping up the gullible into a frenzy, the Republican controlled House and Senate pass funding bills, now signed into law, keeping Planned Parenthood funding intact.

Wow, you far right extremists can't understand that your party: A. Realizes Planned Parenthood performs vital health services for women B. Realizeds how gullible you all are and how easy manipulated you seem to be.

ORR - the funding may have been part of the overall budgetary bill that was impossible to separate, so as to risk other expenditures such as national defense spending and avoid a government shutdown.  But the "cat is out of the bag" with the policy changes that have been put in place by PP, such as the trafficking of human tissue.  

The debate is far from over.  This is not a party issue.  Plenty of Demmies are quite upset with the funding.  One of senators (who got $25g in PP donations) voted against the Ominibus Spending bill. The vote was 65 to 33.  That is hardly a mandate.  The vote was largely along party lines, but some Dems did vote against it. And many Republicans voted for it.  Senator Harry Reid said (Twitter) that the omnibus goals were to "roll back sequester, parity in funding for Pentagon and middle class, and keep of poison pill riders."

Barbara Boxer (D) and Marco Rubio (D) did not vote.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/18/find-out-how-your-senators-voted-on-the-government-spending-bill/  

Hope it copies.  

That conclusion of yours, unfortunetly, lacks the merit of fact! There was no debate on the PP funding in the bill. The debate was over things like renewable energy tax credits and the export of US oil. It is a delusion to think Barbara Boxer vote skip had anything to do with PP funding. PP funding was a no brainer/done deal.

I remind you PP is legally prohibited from using Federal Funding for abortion  services. So what you are arguing against are health services for low and middle class women. Not a hypocrisy road the Republicans want to walk down amist a Presidential campaign. Not shutting the government down again thus not reminding voters they ride the crazy train was the goal. As half the electorate is female, goal achieved.

ORR - Had you read to the bottom of the article, you would have seen this: "Senators did not have the benefit of the regular 30 hours of debate customary after the body votes to invoke cloture, a procedural motion to advance debate. To rush the legislation through, Poitico reported, McConnell went to the floor and asked consent to collapse that time."

The opposing viewpoint was not heard, nor any for that matter.  Barbara Boxer did not vote. Nor did Rubio.  The votes are all accounted for in the linked article.  

And, fyi, community health centers and HMO's have comparable or better service as they actually do mammograms, on site.  It does not depend on economic class.  They tell you that they take care of low income women, but the Medicaid cards are generally accepted or most providers have funding in place to take care of this who cannot pay, such as sliding scale fee for service.  

The PP debate is far from over.  They trafficked human tissue and admitted it indirectly by announcing they were ceasing that practice.  This has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade. Some factions would like to spin it that way.  This is the commercialization of human tissue and manipulation of the procedure to maximize profits.  And those video clips had the speech coming out of the mouths of those individuals.  

And there is such a position as a moderate position in the gray area who can cull through positions and they take the middle of the road, considering things such as fiscal conservatism and liberal social positions.  It is unfair to peg someone into a list of pro or con.  There are many positions in the middle because most of us are not extremists one way or the other.  .  

It will be interesting to see if any are prosecuted, in the next administration. This one got too much money from their political action committee branch.  They are already tainted.  

[Bean Bag]

My life experiences include getting health services - exams and Pap smears - at Planned Parenthood clinics. It was pretty clinical. No wool was involved.

Oh.  I guess there's nothing to see here then.  My bad.  Say... what's behind this door?


That's exactly the wool I'm talking about Emily.

[Emily]

My life experiences include getting health services - exams and Pap smears - at Planned Parenthood clinics. It was pretty clinical. No wool was involved.

Oh.  I guess there's nothing to see here then.  My bad.  Say... what's behind this door?


That's exactly the wool I'm talking about Emily.

Still no wool. What's behind that door doesn't bother me the way it does you.

[Emily]

Planned Parenthood works in many areas where there are no other options for low-income women; most HMOs only treat members. Many low-income women are not eligible for Medicaid.
Changing a policy is not tantamount to saying that the former policy was either illegal or morally wrong.
If someone has video of me saying "I hate hamburger. I love Mike Love" and they edit it to have me say "I hate Mike Love" that is not evidence that I hate Mike Love. Spin it as you like.
If an administration is tainted by receiving money from a PAC, then all administrations are tainted.
The people who would vote against PP funding and speak on the floor against PP have likely received funding from organizations that are against PP so any opposition to PP is corrupt and tainted. It is only bought.

[filledeplage]

Planned Parenthood works in many areas where there are no other options for low-income women; most HMOs only treat members. Many low-income women are not eligible for Medicaid.
Changing a policy is not tantamount to saying that the former policy was either illegal or morally wrong.
If someone has video of me saying "I hate hamburger. I love Mike Love" and they edit it to have me say "I hate Mike Love" that is not evidence that I hate Mike Love. Spin it as you like.
If an administration is tainted by receiving money from a PAC, then all administrations are tainted.
The people who would vote against PP funding and speak on the floor against PP have likely received funding from organizations that are against PP so any opposition to PP is corrupt and tainted. It is only bought.

Emily - Medicaid is a payor of some HMO services, is often a choice for a primary care health facility, and some have historically set up facilities in high impact high poverty areas as a give-back for establishing centers elsewhere else.  I am familiar with community based health centers and HMO's, having used both, as well as private practice physicians.  I've been an HMO member for several decades and believe strongly in their preventative health maintenance and patient education model. HMO's do a volume of middle-income population as was mentioned in an above post.  Policy changes are inherently politically driven.   

Yes, that is correct.  If the money is tainted the taint attenuates or has the ripple effect.  I am not spinning anything. The volume of tape suggests strongly that those statements were actually made.

No there was no comment on the Omnibus Funding in the traditional sense. 

The taped statements were made. The voices do not appear to have been altered or processed. There was enough surrounding context to infer that there was wrongdoing which was supported by some of the former employees backing that up with information as to the actual practices.  They were witnesses who supported the tapes as to the wrongdoing. 

You may have received treatment in a PP facility which was comparable to what you could receive at an HMO or a community-based health center, which are generally set up as non-profits, but that treatment was most certainly not unique and could be duplicated with the same quality elsewhere. 

And, you say that "you hate hamburger" - the only question is whether you made that statement.  And not whether you meant what you said. 

[Bean Bag]

Still no wool. What's behind that door doesn't bother me the way it does you.

Exactly. No Wool Required. Thank you.

It takes awhile... but you can get it out of them.  Liberals must be caught in the act.  They're not bothered by KILLING millions of innocent people as long as they gots theirs.  The "hey, pay for my BC" variety.

But you know... just don't DARE insult a muslim.  Cuz that gets'em pissy! 

[Emily]

Still no wool. What's behind that door doesn't bother me the way it does you.

Exactly. No Wool Required. Thank you.

It takes awhile... but you can get it out of them.  Liberals must be caught in the act.  They're not bothered by KILLING millions of innocent people as long as they gots theirs.  The "hey, pay for my BC" variety.

But you know... just don't DARE insult a muslim.  Cuz that gets'em pissy! 

Assuming you include me when you generalize about liberals, I don't know what act you believe you've caught me in. Typing?
The rest are topics that have nuances. As general statements, they are untrue.

[Emily]

Planned Parenthood works in many areas where there are no other options for low-income women; most HMOs only treat members. Many low-income women are not eligible for Medicaid.

Emily - Medicaid is a payor of some HMO services, is often a choice for a primary care health facility, and some have historically set up facilities in high impact high poverty areas as a give-back for establishing centers elsewhere else.  I am familiar with community based health centers and HMO's, having used both, as well as private practice physicians.  I've been an HMO member for several decades and believe strongly in their preventative health maintenance and patient education model. HMO's do a volume of middle-income population as was mentioned in an above post. 

I'm glad you are pleased with your HMO. I have nothing against HMOs. None of this negates my previous statements.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Still no wool. What's behind that door doesn't bother me the way it does you.

Exactly. No Wool Required. Thank you.

It takes awhile... but you can get it out of them.  Liberals must be caught in the act.  They're not bothered by KILLING millions of innocent people as long as they gots theirs.  The "hey, pay for my BC" variety.

But you know... just don't DARE insult a muslim.  Cuz that gets'em pissy! 

Wow...really?! Here's a little something for you...ANY time ANY race gets disrespected just because of their race, I have an issue.

[Bean Bag]

Still no wool. What's behind that door doesn't bother me the way it does you.

Exactly. No Wool Required. Thank you.

It takes awhile... but you can get it out of them.  Liberals must be caught in the act.  They're not bothered by KILLING millions of innocent people as long as they gots theirs.  The "hey, pay for my BC" variety.

But you know... just don't DARE insult a muslim.  Cuz that gets'em pissy!  

Wow...really?! Here's a little something for you...ANY time ANY race gets disrespected just because of their race, I have an issue.

Sure.  But what about if someone is killed?  Anytime.  Anyone.  Issue?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Of course.

[Emily]

Still no wool. What's behind that door doesn't bother me the way it does you.

Exactly. No Wool Required. Thank you.

It takes awhile... but you can get it out of them.  Liberals must be caught in the act.  They're not bothered by KILLING millions of innocent people as long as they gots theirs.  The "hey, pay for my BC" variety.

But you know... just don't DARE insult a muslim.  Cuz that gets'em pissy!  

Wow...really?! Here's a little something for you...ANY time ANY race gets disrespected just because of their race, I have an issue.

Sure.  But what about if someone is killed?  Anytime.  Anyone.  Issue?

Bean Bag, Are you a pacifist? Do you think it's always wrong to go to war in any case? Do you support capital punishment in any cases? Do you think self-defense should not be an acceptable plea in a murder case? Do you disavow previous posts you've made that support bombing?

[Bean Bag]

Bean Bag, Are you a pacifist? Do you think it's always wrong to go to war in any case? Do you support capital punishment in any cases? Do you think self-defense should not be an acceptable plea in a murder case? Do you disavow previous posts you've made that support bombing?

Moral equivalency Emily?     Ok, let's do this..  An unborn, helpless baby equals... who?  The natzees?  islamofasionistas?

Tell you what though.  I'll become a pacifist mertus once those turkeys are dead and babies are allowed to be born.  Deal?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,122.0.html

Rule 9.

Feel like I need to throw that in as a reminder.

[Emily]

Bean Bag, Are you a pacifist? Do you think it's always wrong to go to war in any case? Do you support capital punishment in any cases? Do you think self-defense should not be an acceptable plea in a murder case? Do you disavow previous posts you've made that support bombing?

Moral equivalency Emily?    Ok, let's do this..  An unborn, helpless baby equals... who?  The natzees?  islamofasionistas?

Tell you what though.  I'll become a pacifist mertus once those turkeys are dead and babies are allowed to be born.  Deal?

I didn't say they were equivalent. But you'd asked that any time, anywhere question about killing. So I take it from your answer that some killing does not trouble you much.
I actually do have trouble seeing the moral difference between killing an 18 year old German kid who ended up in the Nazi army and killing any other random innocent person. The casual indifference people have to killing people of other nationalities just because it's labeled 'war' troubles me.
Eta: during the early years of the Iraq war, a lot of news sites kept a running tally of how many Americans had died and never mentioned how many Iraqis had died. I'll bet a lot more innocent Iraqis died than Americans. But whose death people care about is often political, it seems to me.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Bean Bag, Are you a pacifist? Do you think it's always wrong to go to war in any case? Do you support capital punishment in any cases? Do you think self-defense should not be an acceptable plea in a murder case? Do you disavow previous posts you've made that support bombing?

Moral equivalency Emily?     Ok, let's do this..  An unborn, helpless baby equals... who?  The natzees?  islamofasionistas?

Tell you what though.  I'll become a pacifist mertus once those turkeys are dead and babies are allowed to be born.  Deal?

Bean Bag, Are you a pacifist? Do you think it's always wrong to go to war in any case? Do you support capital punishment in any cases? Do you think self-defense should not be an acceptable plea in a murder case? Do you disavow previous posts you've made that support bombing?

Moral equivalency Emily?     Ok, let's do this..  An unborn, helpless baby equals... who?  The natzees?  islamofasionistas?

Tell you what though.  I'll become a pacifist mertus once those turkeys are dead and babies are allowed to be born.  Deal?

Here is the right wing way. Whip up the crazies with phony anti-aboration/ PP videos and when one of their followers carries out a mass shooting, silence. They all had  Mothers. No calls for legislation from the right.

So then ISIS whips up two of their followers in San Bernadino into a similar killing frenzie, the Republicans go crazy!

The Republican way is inciting fear and paranoia!

And then this from anti-abortion canidate Ben Carson at the last debate:

CNN moderator Hugh Hewitt talked about Carson’s career as a pediatric neurosurgeon and his inspiring personal story, and questioned whether Carson could exhibit the toughness necessary to be Commander-in-Chief and order deadly airstrikes.

“You have to be able to look at the big picture and understand that it’s actually merciful if you go ahead and finish the job rather than death by a thousand pricks,” Carson said.

“So you are OK with the death of thousands of innocent children and civilians?” Hewitt pressed. Amid loud boos from the audience Carson said, “You got it.”

[Emily]

Planned Parenthood is suing the videographers:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/01/14/planned_parenthood_is_going_on_the_offensive_with_massive_lawsuit.html
And here's the complaint:
http://ppfa.pr-optout.com/ViewAttachment.aspx?EID=mr9WXYw4u2IxYnni1dBRVsyFeJIuuWQv%2btbEt05Givo%3d

[Douchepool]

They'll win, too. Under current law if the videos are proven to have been edited in a courtroom then it's cut and dried.

[filledeplage]

Planned Parenthood is suing the videographers:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/01/14/planned_parenthood_is_going_on_the_offensive_with_massive_lawsuit.html
And here's the complaint:
http://ppfa.pr-optout.com/ViewAttachment.aspx?EID=mr9WXYw4u2IxYnni1dBRVsyFeJIuuWQv%2btbEt05Givo%3d

Thank you for posting the link and the complaint.  And, I am thinking that the "undercover" role that the defendants engaged in was not so different from the role of the police, the CIA, FBI or news media for their investigations.  They generally devise an alter ego, dummy corporations, Facebook pages, etc., to advance their investigations.  

In the early part of the complaint (I haven't read the whole thing, yet) the defendants are characterized as Operation Rescue alumni and not citizens who are exposing the trafficking of human tissue (and organs) which is a global problem.  

The factor in this for me, is not the Roe v. Wade issue which I think they are trying to conflate (a new word) with the tissue trafficking, which they have since admitted to, and have subsequently "said" that they have ceased in their practice.  Roe v. Wade is not the issue.  

So, the question is...only whether the tactics of the undercover operation are any different from police, feds, state investigations, or done by the media.  

We can discuss.  

[SurfRiderHawaii]

To the right wingers who have been drinking the Kool aid, I told ya so.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/politics/planned-parenthood-activists-indicted/

[Emily]

Planned Parenthood is suing the videographers:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/01/14/planned_parenthood_is_going_on_the_offensive_with_massive_lawsuit.html
And here's the complaint:
http://ppfa.pr-optout.com/ViewAttachment.aspx?EID=mr9WXYw4u2IxYnni1dBRVsyFeJIuuWQv%2btbEt05Givo%3d

Thank you for posting the link and the complaint.  And, I am thinking that the "undercover" role that the defendants engaged in was not so different from the role of the police, the CIA, FBI or news media for their investigations.  They generally devise an alter ego, dummy corporations, Facebook pages, etc., to advance their investigations.  

In the early part of the complaint (I haven't read the whole thing, yet) the defendants are characterized as Operation Rescue alumni and not citizens who are exposing the trafficking of human tissue (and organs) which is a global problem.  

The factor in this for me, is not the Roe v. Wade issue which I think they are trying to conflate (a new word) with the tissue trafficking, which they have since admitted to, and have subsequently "said" that they have ceased in their practice.  Roe v. Wade is not the issue.  

So, the question is...only whether the tactics of the undercover operation are any different from police, feds, state investigations, or done by the media.  

We can discuss.  

Sorry FdP, I never saw this response until now.
Even if they were acting as law enforcement, there'd still be the issue of entrapment; though admittedly LE gets away with a whole lot of stuff that they shouldn't. I'd hope though that even with the above-the-law treatment that LE is sometimes accorded, they wouldn't be able to get away with presenting their findings to the media or posting them on the internet before presenting them to the DA. Then if it was found that they'd edited the videos that they presented, certainly the videos would not be admissible as evidence and hopefully the crooked cops would be at minimum suspended.