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Author Topic: "Love & Mercy" - Board member reviews and discussion  (Read 35063 times)
pixletwin
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« Reply #225 on: June 16, 2015, 06:37:14 AM »

can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?

It's in the scene for the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" backing track.  Lyle Ritz is supposed to play in one key on the double bass and Carol is to play another on her bass.  I'm not even remotely musical enough to know if two keys are being played on the real track.  I do know that the expository dialogue in the scene is interesting and gets the point across that Brian heard in his head what he wanted and the musicians followed.

Yeah... I have a degree in music composition and all I can figure is they are referencing Brian's odd bass placements (which are rarely rooted, as is typical). It's a common thing in jazz and something no jazz musician would have found perplexing if that is what it is referring to.  I can sort of see why Carol Kaye's nose would have wrinkled a bit at that. LOL
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« Reply #226 on: June 16, 2015, 08:12:14 AM »

saw it this past weekend and was amazed by all of the historical accuracies, down to room decorations except that for the period in question Carl's hair was parted on the wrong side Afro

He was ever consistent with the hair parting?  I never got that feeling from Carl.  Seemed to me he'd part his hair however the wind blew it on that particular morning.

Oh yes.  Carl was a dedicated right sider from the very beginning through Pet Sounds. Starting with the Smile sessions, he began a brief flirtation with parting it on the left side.  Clearly this did not work out as he quickly abandoned the left sided-ness and emerged with what would become his signature down the middle part on Sunflower.
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« Reply #227 on: June 16, 2015, 10:32:58 AM »

can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?

It's in the scene for the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" backing track.  Lyle Ritz is supposed to play in one key on the double bass and Carol is to play another on her bass.  I'm not even remotely musical enough to know if two keys are being played on the real track.  I do know that the expository dialogue in the scene is interesting and gets the point across that Brian heard in his head what he wanted and the musicians followed.

Yeah... I have a degree in music composition and all I can figure is they are referencing Brian's odd bass placements (which are rarely rooted, as is typical). It's a common thing in jazz and something no jazz musician would have found perplexing if that is what it is referring to.  I can sort of see why Carol Kaye's nose would have wrinkled a bit at that. LOL

And for anyone curious exactly what this is about, here is the scene in question.

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/love-and-mercy-brian-wilson-wouldnt-it-be-120447550237.html
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« Reply #228 on: June 16, 2015, 11:26:42 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VT-uPyCfXY

Full Q&A from a screening last week in Los Angeles.  I haven't watched it yet but it looks cool.
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« Reply #229 on: June 16, 2015, 12:20:29 PM »

very good.  Brian seemed very relaxed there, offered some really good comments. Strange o hear him talk about Landy, I wonder what goes through his mind when he speaks of him.
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« Reply #230 on: June 16, 2015, 12:25:17 PM »

I've seen it three times now in the theater (the wife said no more). I was reading one critic's review, discussing how he felt the film portrays, among other things, the creation of Pet Sounds and the destruction of Smile. That comment got me thinking about the inclusion of the brief scene from the recording of Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, and what better way to represent the destruction of Smile, if you will, than to cut from Paul Dano singing Surf's Up to the scene of Brian in the studio, running with fire in his hands, the fire that destroys. That for me was the most powerful scene in the film among many powerful scenes.

Interesting, my wife interpreted that scene as Brian was playing around, having fun in the studio, but if you look at his expression, he looks like he's hurting to me, like a man defeated.

I also thought Love to Say Dada would have been a great song to play over his LSD trip, not that Don't Talk (I think that's what we hear) wasn't. If there was ever a song that sounds like LSD, (not that I've taken it), Love to Say Dada, I think, would be it. And of course we know the lore behind the title. An amazing, ethereal beginning to that song, yes indeed. And an amazing film that follows you home, even after repeated viewings.
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« Reply #231 on: June 16, 2015, 12:46:57 PM »

I've seen it three times now in the theater (the wife said no more). I was reading one critic's review, discussing how he felt the film portrays, among other things, the creation of Pet Sounds and the destruction of Smile. That comment got me thinking about the inclusion of the brief scene from the recording of Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, and what better way to represent the destruction of Smile, if you will, than to cut from Paul Dano singing Surf's Up to the scene of Brian in the studio, running with fire in his hands, the fire that destroys. That for me was the most powerful scene in the film among many powerful scenes.

I went last night to a yet another showing (my fourth time) and it was again nice to drink in the nuances of the scenes.  Subtle details like the one you mention.  Not much of SMiLE is shown.  I think Bill Pohlad said (in some other interview) that there were more scenes for SMiLE stuff shot but they didn't' make the final cut.  "Surf's Up" segueing into 'The Fire Sessions' was a power 1-2 punch.  And Dano in the deep end with the soundtrack collage of like 5 or 6 SMiLE songs all going at once.  So much water imagery.
 
Interesting, my wife interpreted that scene as Brian was playing around, having fun in the studio, but if you look at his expression, he looks like he's hurting to me, like a man defeated.

It's the one time in the film that I think Paul Dano's Brian seems manic.
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« Reply #232 on: June 16, 2015, 01:07:25 PM »

Its a week out from general release in Australia and the ads for the movie release are starting to appear on TV stations (I saw them on Foxtel).
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« Reply #233 on: June 16, 2015, 01:46:08 PM »

Nice piece from National Review:

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/419838/print
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« Reply #234 on: June 16, 2015, 04:17:38 PM »

OK I saw it again today. Much, much better the second time around, and it was excellent the first time. The hook for me is the opening musical sequence. Goosebumps and tears all rolled into one. For the second time in 24 hours I am gob-smacked.
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« Reply #235 on: June 16, 2015, 08:58:09 PM »

Okay, Brian Wilson (or your people), if you're out there-- listen.

THIS is what should be playing during the end credits:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLTe8h0-jo
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« Reply #236 on: June 16, 2015, 09:25:08 PM »

Interesting, my wife interpreted that scene as Brian was playing around, having fun in the studio, but if you look at his expression, he looks like he's hurting to me, like a man defeated.
Yeah, I've always felt that way about the song Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, as well as in that scene. I was tearing up whenever it seemed like Brian was on the verge of his emotions. Maybe externally he's having fun, but on the inside, he's hurting.

And this makes me wonder, have people brought others with them to see the movie who know nothing/little about the Beach Boys? How did they respond? I felt I was emotionally involved because of my life-long love for their songs and more recently, them as a band, and my dad, as an old music lover, really enjoyed it. Because I feel like the fire-hat recording sessions doesn't make a ton of sense out of context Tongue.

Also, yeah, Love to Say Dada would be a good choice hence its title.
I guess the instrumental version of Don't Talk they used works, although I've never tripped on acid (not even in chemistry labs), I get the sense of feeling all floaty-floaty from it, haha.
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« Reply #237 on: June 17, 2015, 01:37:29 AM »

I saw the movie a little over a week ago and I'm torn on my opinions of the movie. From a purely artistic standpoint, what they did with the movie I found to be rather breath-taking.

However, I feel like the story-telling, relationships and character development left a lot to be desired. For me, that is the meat and potatoes of a movie. I get the feeling that the void in these departments probably has more to do with a lack of direct involvement with Brian Wilson himself than anything else. Some of it may just be that I have a different preference for things I would have liked to have seen with greater focus:

1. To me, the love story of Brian and Melinda barely seems convincing. Part of this is probably Cusack's fault. While he may capture certain ticks or mannerisms or do a good job mimicking Brian interviews we can all see on Youtube, his portrayal lacks heart and charm. More often than not he makes Brian look like a creep who can barely talk. If you watch Brian interviews throughout the decades, he could always talk like a normal person, but here and there he would choose to be more reserved. Back to the original point, it almost appears that there is no reason for Melinda to fall in love with him other than the fact that he is a Beach Boy. This relationship just comes across as shallow in the movie. The part where he played Love and Mercy on the piano when she entered the room was the only part with Cusack where I could see a blossoming love. I'm sure part of this is the writers fault as well.

2. The scene with Murray basically shooting down God Only Knows certainly comes off as a pivotal moment in the movie. The problem is that the audience barely knows who this guy is. Their relationship is hardly explored at all. This opens up a huge can of worms with me, where is the rest of his family? Where is his mother? Where are his brothers? Where is his wife Marilyn? These are really the most crucial supporting characters of the 60s Brian Wilson story. In my opinion, the dynamics of the Wilson family relationships are the most important ground to be covered in the 60s. I feel like we see more of Hal Blaine than Carl Wilson or Dennis Wilson.

3. Where is the focus on what drives him as a musician or what he wanted his songs to accomplish? These are important questions. We get to watch him in the studio with the wrecking crew. We get to hear him talk about needing to "get this stuff" out of him. What did it feel like to harmonize with his brothers? Were any of his songs messages to the people around him? Certainly he had deep conversations with a guy like Tony Asher while developing lyrics for Pet Sounds. What about Van Dyke? Why don't we get to see how other musical influences affected him like the Freshmen and Phil Spector?

4. The studio portrayal by Dano seemed off to me. Just from listening to the Pet Sounds sessions, he always seemed to know exactly what he wanted, was well composed and professional. They make him look like a little kid having a blast in the studio, but 97% of the stuff I've heard from sessions was him honing in on a precise sound. He just doesn't come across anywhere nearly as efficient and intelligent and as he actually was when recording. I've heard in interviews with Brian that recording the vocals with his brothers on Pet Sounds that it was very much a religious and spiritual effort. I would have loved to have seen that conveyed.


I suppose I just feel like the fundamentals of the movie are severely lacking. The movie fails to capture the most endearing qualities of Brian Wilson and his story. Seems like more flash than substance to me. The strengths of the move are audio/visual effects and interesting scene juxtaposition and sequencing. The movie is clever in spades, but lacks heart and soul.
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« Reply #238 on: June 17, 2015, 05:47:11 AM »

can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?

It's in the scene for the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" backing track.  Lyle Ritz is supposed to play in one key on the double bass and Carol is to play another on her bass.  I'm not even remotely musical enough to know if two keys are being played on the real track.  I do know that the expository dialogue in the scene is interesting and gets the point across that Brian heard in his head what he wanted and the musicians followed.

Yeah... I have a degree in music composition and all I can figure is they are referencing Brian's odd bass placements (which are rarely rooted, as is typical). It's a common thing in jazz and something no jazz musician would have found perplexing if that is what it is referring to.  I can sort of see why Carol Kaye's nose would have wrinkled a bit at that. LOL

I THINK I can explain this.  The arpeggio guitar part in the middle section of WIBN (which repeats the intro of the song) is played in A.  But the bass part is in D.  If you combine the two, i.e. of you play an A chord with a D in the bass, you get (I think) a Dmaj9 chord.  So the middle bit is essentialy in D, but PLAYED IN ISOLATION, the guitar arpeggio sounds like it's in A.  I could probably explain it better with a guitar - I'll put something on YouTube if I get a chance!

I'm sure it wouldn't have taken Carol Kaye long to understand what Brian was getting at, once she'd heard the 'bigger picture'.

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« Reply #239 on: June 17, 2015, 06:07:44 AM »

I saw the movie a little over a week ago and I'm torn on my opinions of the movie. From a purely artistic standpoint, what they did with the movie I found to be rather breath-taking.

However, I feel like the story-telling, relationships and character development left a lot to be desired. For me, that is the meat and potatoes of a movie. I get the feeling that the void in these departments probably has more to do with a lack of direct involvement with Brian Wilson himself than anything else. Some of it may just be that I have a different preference for things I would have liked to have seen with greater focus:

1. To me, the love story of Brian and Melinda barely seems convincing. Part of this is probably Cusack's fault. While he may capture certain ticks or mannerisms or do a good job mimicking Brian interviews we can all see on Youtube, his portrayal lacks heart and charm. More often than not he makes Brian look like a creep who can barely talk. If you watch Brian interviews throughout the decades, he could always talk like a normal person, but here and there he would choose to be more reserved. Back to the original point, it almost appears that there is no reason for Melinda to fall in love with him other than the fact that he is a Beach Boy. This relationship just comes across as shallow in the movie. The part where he played Love and Mercy on the piano when she entered the room was the only part with Cusack where I could see a blossoming love. I'm sure part of this is the writers fault as well.

2. The scene with Murray basically shooting down God Only Knows certainly comes off as a pivotal moment in the movie. The problem is that the audience barely knows who this guy is. Their relationship is hardly explored at all. This opens up a huge can of worms with me, where is the rest of his family? Where is his mother? Where are his brothers? Where is his wife Marilyn? These are really the most crucial supporting characters of the 60s Brian Wilson story. In my opinion, the dynamics of the Wilson family relationships are the most important ground to be covered in the 60s. I feel like we see more of Hal Blaine than Carl Wilson or Dennis Wilson.

3. Where is the focus on what drives him as a musician or what he wanted his songs to accomplish? These are important questions. We get to watch him in the studio with the wrecking crew. We get to hear him talk about needing to "get this stuff" out of him. What did it feel like to harmonize with his brothers? Were any of his songs messages to the people around him? Certainly he had deep conversations with a guy like Tony Asher while developing lyrics for Pet Sounds. What about Van Dyke? Why don't we get to see how other musical influences affected him like the Freshmen and Phil Spector?

4. The studio portrayal by Dano seemed off to me. Just from listening to the Pet Sounds sessions, he always seemed to know exactly what he wanted, was well composed and professional. They make him look like a little kid having a blast in the studio, but 97% of the stuff I've heard from sessions was him honing in on a precise sound. He just doesn't come across anywhere nearly as efficient and intelligent and as he actually was when recording. I've heard in interviews with Brian that recording the vocals with his brothers on Pet Sounds that it was very much a religious and spiritual effort. I would have loved to have seen that conveyed.


I suppose I just feel like the fundamentals of the movie are severely lacking. The movie fails to capture the most endearing qualities of Brian Wilson and his story. Seems like more flash than substance to me. The strengths of the move are audio/visual effects and interesting scene juxtaposition and sequencing. The movie is clever in spades, but lacks heart and soul.

You make a lot of good points about things left out / not fully explained. 

I think this could actually work for the movie though.  Brian's fans won't need an explanation.  But for newcomers, the movie might convince them to explore the Brian Wilson story a little further. 
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« Reply #240 on: June 17, 2015, 06:28:07 AM »

Okay, Brian Wilson (or your people), if you're out there-- listen.

THIS is what should be playing during the end credits:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLTe8h0-jo

How about..... no.  Grin
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« Reply #241 on: June 17, 2015, 06:34:20 AM »

Okay, Brian Wilson (or your people), if you're out there-- listen.

THIS is what should be playing during the end credits:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLTe8h0-jo

That's a decent version of God Only Knows, but I'm glad they chose to highlight songs from Brian's solo career with Love and Mercy (this kinda had to use Love and Mercy at some point) and One Kind of Love. 
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« Reply #242 on: June 17, 2015, 07:34:28 AM »

I've seen the movie twice now- (don't know if I've seen a movie twice in the theater since Empire Strikes Back.)
I liked it.  The attention to detail is outstanding, in a way that only serious BB fans will appreciate.  The way Dennis would flip his hair, little things like that.  I thought they portrayed Mike very fairly.  Some people are just business and goal oriented.  If I was him I wouldn't take offense to the film, but I'm not him.  They did compress a lot of the history, but like people have said, it's a two hour movie.

Just my two cents:

Favorite Parts: when Mike freaks out about the cello, the '2001' portion at then end- very artistic and well-done.  I think I actually preferred Cusack's Wilson.  Dano was great, but the movie is showing Brian at such a delicate time in his life, I kind of wished we had seen him earlier, when he was more of a confident, dominant personality as he could be.  Dano seemed so fragile the entire time in his portrayal, which I understand was the point the movie was trying to make about the time period.

Least Favorite: I thought it was about 5 minutes too long.  I could see where someone who wasn't a super fan would get a little bored.  Also, I was seeing it in an old, art-house theater in Austin, but I was underwhelmed by the sound.  Not the soundtrack or how they did it, but the music never seemed loud enough, like I was kind of straining to hear what was going on.  As far as attendance, there were about twenty people both times, and all were over 60 except for me.  For what its worth.
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« Reply #243 on: June 17, 2015, 12:03:00 PM »

3. Where is the focus on what drives him as a musician or what he wanted his songs to accomplish? These are important questions. We get to watch him in the studio with the wrecking crew. We get to hear him talk about needing to "get this stuff" out of him. What did it feel like to harmonize with his brothers? Were any of his songs messages to the people around him?

What drives him as a musician? Brian says that in the movie: "Tony and I think that if you close your eyes when listening, it can take you to a place." With that statement and others in that GOK scene one can deduce that Brian's drive was fueled by his passion for sharing musical beauty/spirituality with the world. What did it feel like to harmonize with his brothers? You experience that feeling when all the guys are singing the harmonies to You Still Believe In Me....we don't need to be told what it was like because the film lets us experience it first hand.

Quote
They make him look like a little kid having a blast in the studio, but 97% of the stuff I've heard from sessions was him honing in on a precise sound. He just doesn't come across anywhere nearly as efficient and intelligent and as he actually was when recording.

The Banana and Louie scene, and Brian teaching someone the proper way to toot the horn (ei Brian having fun in the studio) take at best 30 seconds of time in the movie. The rest of the studio scenes are Brian teaching musicians how to play what he wants. He's confident, professional, yet still has that endearing happiness for the music. And given that the studio chatter was nearly almost all taken word for word from the actual sessions, there is no way Dano doesn't sound efficient and intelligent. I think 90% of the studios scenes portrayed Brian as a very meticulous and explorative producer. The other 10% showed Brian's childlike love for the music he was making.

Quote
Why don't we get to see how other musical influences affected him like the Freshmen and Phil Spector?

Cusack's character talks about how the Four Freshmen influenced his harmonies, and Dano's character plays Be My Baby on the piano for seemingly 30 minutes to get him in the mood for writing GV. I could be mistaken, but I also think during the 2001 homage the Four Freshmen are playing in the background....showing the viewer first hand the music that inspired it all.

Quote
More often than not he makes Brian look like a creep who can barely talk. If you watch Brian interviews throughout the decades, he could always talk like a normal person, but here and there he would choose to be more reserved. Back to the original point, it almost appears that there is no reason for Melinda to fall in love with him other than the fact that he is a Beach Boy.

Before she was even told who Brian actually was you could tell by her mannerisms that she was curious about and interested in Brian. And even after she found out who Brian was I felt she was attracted to Brian's personality more than anything. Cusack's character emits a childlike love of the world, yet he is also fragile and scared - as well as being attracted to the former, Melinda wants to help Brian with the latter.

Quote
2. The scene with Murray basically shooting down God Only Knows certainly comes off as a pivotal moment in the movie. The problem is that the audience barely knows who this guy is. Their relationship is hardly explored at all. This opens up a huge can of worms with me, where is the rest of his family? Where is his mother? Where are his brothers? Where is his wife Marilyn? These are really the most crucial supporting characters of the 60s Brian Wilson story.

But they learn who Murry is in that scene. We learn that Murry is a hardass, a broken man who got fired from the band, a man whose marriage is falling apart, a bitter man who can't appreciate or understand what Brian was trying to accomplish with his new material. Honestly, there's almost nothing more fitting for Murry than to be introduced via shooting down one of the greatest love songs ever made.

Where are Brian's brothers? They're all over the film - supporting Brian and his efforts to make Pet Sounds. They ease his mind during his mid-flight panic attack. They are there in the control booth fighting for Brian when Mike was questioning some of the production. They are there during SMiLE's collapse, saying they all have to stick together. Marilyn is there supporting Brian as well, giving him comfort when he is at his lowest, and if we were left wondering what happened to her Cusack tells us that she saved his life, and that he wasn't a good father/husband which is why the marriage didn't last. And though these characters are important to Brian, the main focus of the movie is on Brian and his soul. It isn't meant to be a movie about Brian and everyone he knew. It's meant to be about himself and his demons.

It's all in the details. We get snapshots of Brian's real life demons (Mike being a pain, Murry being emotionally and physically abusive, Landy, etc) but when they're all looked at as a whole, Brian's life and his struggles become overpowering, which makes his redemption all that much more incredible.
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« Reply #244 on: June 17, 2015, 06:54:34 PM »

I thought this probably belonged here.  Just came across it while looking around the iTunes store:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/meet-the-filmmaker/id301899522?mt=2

There is both an audio and a video version of the panel (John Cusack, Brian and Bill Pohlad).  Just starting to dive in, haven't listened at all - was eager to share.  Should be a good one!
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« Reply #245 on: June 17, 2015, 08:24:32 PM »

can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?

It's in the scene for the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" backing track.  Lyle Ritz is supposed to play in one key on the double bass and Carol is to play another on her bass.  I'm not even remotely musical enough to know if two keys are being played on the real track.  I do know that the expository dialogue in the scene is interesting and gets the point across that Brian heard in his head what he wanted and the musicians followed.


Yeah... I have a degree in music composition and all I can figure is they are referencing Brian's odd bass placements (which are rarely rooted, as is typical). It's a common thing in jazz and something no jazz musician would have found perplexing if that is what it is referring to.  I can sort of see why Carol Kaye's nose would have wrinkled a bit at that. LOL

I THINK I can explain this.  The arpeggio guitar part in the middle section of WIBN (which repeats the intro of the song) is played in A.  But the bass part is in D.  If you combine the two, i.e. of you play an A chord with a D in the bass, you get (I think) a Dmaj9 chord.  So the middle bit is essentialy in D, but PLAYED IN ISOLATION, the guitar arpeggio sounds like it's in A.  I could probably explain it better with a guitar - I'll put something on YouTube if I get a chance!

I'm sure it wouldn't have taken Carol Kaye long to understand what Brian was getting at, once she'd heard the 'bigger picture'.





Absolutely my least favorite moment in the whole film, because the dialog is so clunky, and it's so didactically hitting you on the head with "Brian is blowing these studio musician's minds" thing.  And as you say above, Carol would not have had any problem seeing what was going on.

The moment is referencing a fairly obscure comment by Lyle Ritz from the PS box set, where he's talking about WIBN, and how his bass part seemed to be written in a different key from the rest of the band during the bridge.

It's not.

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« Reply #246 on: June 17, 2015, 08:54:50 PM »

can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?

It's in the scene for the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" backing track.  Lyle Ritz is supposed to play in one key on the double bass and Carol is to play another on her bass.  I'm not even remotely musical enough to know if two keys are being played on the real track.  I do know that the expository dialogue in the scene is interesting and gets the point across that Brian heard in his head what he wanted and the musicians followed.


Yeah... I have a degree in music composition and all I can figure is they are referencing Brian's odd bass placements (which are rarely rooted, as is typical). It's a common thing in jazz and something no jazz musician would have found perplexing if that is what it is referring to.  I can sort of see why Carol Kaye's nose would have wrinkled a bit at that. LOL

I THINK I can explain this.  The arpeggio guitar part in the middle section of WIBN (which repeats the intro of the song) is played in A.  But the bass part is in D.  If you combine the two, i.e. of you play an A chord with a D in the bass, you get (I think) a Dmaj9 chord.  So the middle bit is essentialy in D, but PLAYED IN ISOLATION, the guitar arpeggio sounds like it's in A.  I could probably explain it better with a guitar - I'll put something on YouTube if I get a chance!

I'm sure it wouldn't have taken Carol Kaye long to understand what Brian was getting at, once she'd heard the 'bigger picture'.





Absolutely my least favorite moment in the whole film, because the dialog is so clunky, and it's so didactically hitting you on the head with "Brian is blowing these studio musician's minds" thing.  And as you say above, Carol would not have had any problem seeing what was going on.

The moment is referencing a fairly obscure comment by Lyle Ritz from the PS box set, where he's talking about WIBN, and how his bass part seemed to be written in a different key from the rest of the band during the bridge.

It's not.



One of the best profile pics in the history of the message boards, bar none!  Smiley

I've also transcribed that bass and guitar part, and it does do something cool as James outlined. You get the sound of a Dmajor7th starting that bridge because the bass note is a strong D root, yet the intro sounds more like the A to Bmin7 arpeggio that is actually being played on the guitar. It's a neat trick of playing with the perception of hearing the chord as something different based on the root note played underneath. Hendrix did a similar thing later with All Along The Watchtower where what had been a straightforward A major chord in the song suddenly sounds like an F#minor7 because he played that F# root in the bass under the guitar's A chord. Simple but a very, very cool effect.
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ďSome people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I donít look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. Itís just wrong thinking in my opinion and I donít mind saying that.Ē - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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SMiLE is America: Infinite Potential Never Reached


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« Reply #247 on: June 17, 2015, 10:28:51 PM »

I am glad of two things in this movie.

1.) Bill did not go out of his way to portray Mike Love as an asshole. He came off like a man who was worried as to what was happening to his group, and yes his livelihood. There were changes going on with Brian that I am sure Mike at the time chalked up to drugs etc and thought that his cousin needed a verbal ass kicking to get it together. We know now that drugs took an already delicately balanced Brian and pushed him over the edge.

2.) I liked the way the SMiLE crew was portrayed. (So glad Bob Hanes isn't here to rip me a new one for what I am about to say. We argued ALOT over this). I have always felt that with 3 exceptions, the people that were around Brian during Pet Sounds and SMiLE were absolutely the most self absorbed people who could have invaded his world. Starting with Tom Nolan and carried on by David Leaf and others, these people (Lauren Daro, Mike Vosse, etc etc), these people were said to be hip and the Beach Boys were said to be non-hip and that was the ONLY thing wrong is that the boys couldn't or didn't want to go where the hip people were leading. Well, to put it mildly, these hip people were going NOWHERE. They were the kind of people I knew growing up that would get high and just ramble on about things and think of themselves as enlightened. And the 60's people had a way of thinking they saved the world. They didn't. They were too self-absorbed to save anyone. I always found it funny when they use to show these communes on shows like 60 minutes etc., and the men would spend the day meeting and discussing issues of the day etc, while the women did all of the work and child-rearing. So much for enlightenment. Those people added nothing. And look at them all. Except for Van, David, and Danny, they all went on to do......nothing. Some were homeless and addicted, Lauren worked as a fact checker for a publisher (so much for Mr. Brain Trust). These were evil people. Glad they didn't show them as heroes. Leaf tried to show them that way in the Beatuiful Dreamer video. They weren't. After watching Lauren speak, I told Bob Hanes I felt like I needed a shower.

Absolutely this. Especially #2. I would have disagreed until Daro popped in awhile ago and revealed what a petty, stuck-up, useless prick he is/was. It actually gave me even more sympathy for Mike's point of view--I wouldnt want my family to hang out with such a character either. And I agree, he reminds me of people I know now in college who do drugs (and not like weed or psychedelics, Im talking coke and heroin) and brag about how much theyve supposedly learned doing so, all while conducting themselves in the most immature, self-centered ways I could imagine.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #248 on: June 18, 2015, 10:17:42 AM »

Domestic takings are currently at $4.7 million. International earnings have not yet been properly calculated.

Woo hoo!
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Emdeeh
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« Reply #249 on: June 18, 2015, 11:15:20 AM »

NPR's Fresh Air ran a discussion with Oren Moverman on Love & Mercy today. They also ran parts of a late '80s interview with Brian. Here's the link to listen and download:
http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/

Haven't seen the movie yet, but it's opening in town tomorrow. Think I'll go see it on Saturday.  Grin


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