"Love & Mercy" - Board member reviews and discussion

[KDS]

I feel exactly the opposite. I really could have done without the shot-for-shot remake of the Sloop promo video and other vintage footage. I can watch the original anytime I want, so why put it in the film when that time could have been spent elsewhere on the story? I was much more invested in the stuff we didn't know and thought Cusack was terrific at portraying Brian during that phase of his life.

I'm fairly certain the Sloop promo was there to break up the heaviness of the LSD scene that preceded it.  It infuses comfort and humor just as some of the darker tones of the film are revealing themselves.

Sloop John B also provided a nice transition to the 80s scene with Brian, Melinda, and Evan Landy on the sailboat, listening to Sloop John B on the boom box.

[guitarfool2002]

2.) I liked the way the SMiLE crew was portrayed. (So glad Bob Hanes isn't here to rip me a new one for what I am about to say. We argued ALOT over this). I have always felt that with 3 exceptions, the people that were around Brian during Pet Sounds and SMiLE were absolutely the most self absorbed people who could have invaded his world. Starting with Tom Nolan and carried on by David Leaf and others, these people (Lauren Daro, Mike Vosse, etc etc), these people were said to be hip and the Beach Boys were said to be non-hip and that was the ONLY thing wrong is that the boys couldn't or didn't want to go where the hip people were leading. Well, to put it mildly, these hip people were going NOWHERE. They were the kind of people I knew growing up that would get high and just ramble on about things and think of themselves as enlightened. And the 60's people had a way of thinking they saved the world. They didn't. They were too self-absorbed to save anyone. I always found it funny when they use to show these communes on shows like 60 minutes etc., and the men would spend the day meeting and discussing issues of the day etc, while the women did all of the work and child-rearing. So much for enlightenment. Those people added nothing. And look at them all. Except for Van, David, and Danny, they all went on to do......nothing. Some were homeless and addicted, Lauren worked as a fact checker for a publisher (so much for Mr. Brain Trust). These were evil people. Glad they didn't show them as heroes. Leaf tried to show them that way in the Beatuiful Dreamer video. They weren't. After watching Lauren speak, I told Bob Hanes I felt like I needed a shower.

Not to derail this too much, but I'd side with Bob Hanes if you're lumping Michael Vosse into your "evil people" list, and I know there are quite a few on this board who knew him personally and could say much more about it if they chose.

I just don't think it's fair or even appropriate to make these kinds of claims against someone when they're just not true - Daro, you'd have a case there. But I seriously don't understand where this sentiment against Vosse is coming from or why. Didn't I challenge this same thing when it was announced that he had passed away, and someone used the term "leeches" in that thread?

I could find what I posted in reply to that, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Unless the definition "went on to do nothing" somehow includes a decades-long career in broadcast news and journalism and several notable awards for his work in that field including an Emmy...I just don't get the hatred or the attempt to portray someone falsely.

[guitarfool2002]

I feel exactly the opposite. I really could have done without the shot-for-shot remake of the Sloop promo video and other vintage footage. I can watch the original anytime I want, so why put it in the film when that time could have been spent elsewhere on the story? I was much more invested in the stuff we didn't know and thought Cusack was terrific at portraying Brian during that phase of his life.

I'm fairly certain the Sloop promo was there to break up the heaviness of the LSD scene that preceded it.  It infuses comfort and humor just as some of the darker tones of the film are revealing themselves.

Sloop John B also provided a nice transition to the 80s scene with Brian, Melinda, and Evan Landy on the sailboat, listening to Sloop John B on the boom box.

I was saving this for a longer piece, but what the hell...just a teaser and/or something to consider without going all-in with the opinion piece.

At first I wondered about that recreation of the Sloop promo film, how it fit in, why it was used, what the director was going for...

Then it hit me, after about a day or so.

Look at every scene with a swimming pool in that film. Notice who is there, who is in the pool, who jumps in the pool, who stays out, who is in the deep versus shallow end...all of that, make note of each scene in that semi-obsessive way.

Then consider at the exact moment in time that the Sloop film was shot...all of the Beach Boys are in the pool with Brian. All of them, and enthusiastically so. They're along for the fun.

And contrast that with what follows, specifically who is and isn't in the pool.

That is my hint at a guess as to what's being portrayed symbolically by the pool scenes (which are in various stages of the film), and why the Sloop film was so meticulously recreated and included in the narrative.

Think of the concept "all in". 

[SMiLE Brian]

Nice analysis GF!

[sea of tunes]

Yes, that was very good GF.

Something else occurred to me about that scene now that it is being mentioned, it's almost like that illustrates the conclusion of PET SOUNDS.  Several scenes later in the tent Mike says something like 'Well PET SOUNDS was a flop'. 

There aren't a really any visual queues in the film of what I would term 'tangible' reality.  There's no scene show album artwork or anything like that.  It's much more cerebral, which was definitely the preferred approach (at least, to this viewer).

Came across this article from Slate Love & Mercy Fact vs Fiction

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/06/10/love_mercy_fact_vs_fiction_how_the_new_brian_wilson_biopic_starring_john.html

[Junkstar]

Brian already comes across in the 80s part of the movie as a weak and pathetic individual. Do BW fans really wish that they would have shown MORE of that? His passive personality had rendered him impotent to control his own life. It was Melinda that was the catalyzing force to move Brian forward. That part of the movie is really her story, not Brian's. I think Pohlad got the balance right in that regard. Elizabeth Banks gives a great performance too. That scene where Landy yells at her through the door and then totally backs down when she opens it is one of the movie's best. With that one glare, Landy knew that Melinda was not someone he was going to be able to control. The scene where he "gives her access" was wonderful too, as you could sense Melinda's mounting horror even as  she seems to consider going along with Landy's requests.

I have not seen anyone wishing there were more scenes of Brian suffering in the film. If my comments come off giving you that impression, it's probably just poor writing on my part. Just was not personally sold on the Brian story as told primarily through the Melinda character. Good movie, though.

[bgas]

Just got home from seeing the film. My only complaint is that it felt too much like a movie about Melinda to me. Great acting by all involved but the later years all seemed based on Melindas experience. Maybe if the early years had been based on Marilyn's experiences it might have balanced it out? My other takeaway was that this was probably not the best week for me to release a Murry Wilson tribute single. Fresh wounds...

A Murry Wilson tribute, really?

On a related note, I've been trying to get David Hasselhoff's people on the phone to get him on board with a musical tribute to the former East Germany, but they're not returning my calls.

Yup, really. Im not from the BB camp that flags participants in the legacy as either purely good or purely bad. I think it's a shame there are so few Murry compositions on record for posterity. He was a key player in creating the band as we know them.

Your Hasselhoff project sounds less challenging than trying to unearth the Murry canon of failed sheets, to be honest. Two Step was an easy target as Guy Lombardo had sheets released through Guild and BMI, but there are many more failed Murry compositions people will likely never hear.

Not certain what you mean by "failed sheets", but I think Jim Murphy could chime in with how many of Murry's compositions are actually on records. I'd bet on quite a few..

[Junkstar]

Just got home from seeing the film. My only complaint is that it felt too much like a movie about Melinda to me. Great acting by all involved but the later years all seemed based on Melindas experience. Maybe if the early years had been based on Marilyn's experiences it might have balanced it out? My other takeaway was that this was probably not the best week for me to release a Murry Wilson tribute single. Fresh wounds...

A Murry Wilson tribute, really?

On a related note, I've been trying to get David Hasselhoff's people on the phone to get him on board with a musical tribute to the former East Germany, but they're not returning my calls.

Yup, really. Im not from the BB camp that flags participants in the legacy as either purely good or purely bad. I think it's a shame there are so few Murry compositions on record for posterity. He was a key player in creating the band as we know them.

Your Hasselhoff project sounds less challenging than trying to unearth the Murry canon of failed sheets, to be honest. Two Step was an easy target as Guy Lombardo had sheets released through Guild and BMI, but there are many more failed Murry compositions people will likely never hear.

Was the process of unearthing all of that sheet music more difficult than finding out what C50 meant? 

I'm assuming I pissed you off in the 90's or something.

[Junkstar]

Just got home from seeing the film. My only complaint is that it felt too much like a movie about Melinda to me. Great acting by all involved but the later years all seemed based on Melindas experience. Maybe if the early years had been based on Marilyn's experiences it might have balanced it out? My other takeaway was that this was probably not the best week for me to release a Murry Wilson tribute single. Fresh wounds...

A Murry Wilson tribute, really?

On a related note, I've been trying to get David Hasselhoff's people on the phone to get him on board with a musical tribute to the former East Germany, but they're not returning my calls.

Yup, really. Im not from the BB camp that flags participants in the legacy as either purely good or purely bad. I think it's a shame there are so few Murry compositions on record for posterity. He was a key player in creating the band as we know them.

Your Hasselhoff project sounds less challenging than trying to unearth the Murry canon of failed sheets, to be honest. Two Step was an easy target as Guy Lombardo had sheets released through Guild and BMI, but there are many more failed Murry compositions people will likely never hear.

Not certain what you mean by "failed sheets", but I think Jim Murphy could chime in with how many of Murry's compositions are actually on records. I'd bet on quite a few..

Thanks, I'll try to connect with Jim. From all sources so far, a few is more likely than quite a few if you disregard Many Moods and the Sunrays.

[puni puni]

I would have changed seats.

Probably would have done less good. The theater we went to served alcohol and one person had to shush us at one point. Sorry about that. The film was just so good. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Just got home from seeing the film. My only complaint is that it felt too much like a movie about Melinda to me. Great acting by all involved but the later years all seemed based on Melindas experience. Maybe if the early years had been based on Marilyn's experiences it might have balanced it out? My other takeaway was that this was probably not the best week for me to release a Murry Wilson tribute single. Fresh wounds...

A Murry Wilson tribute, really?

On a related note, I've been trying to get David Hasselhoff's people on the phone to get him on board with a musical tribute to the former East Germany, but they're not returning my calls.

Yup, really. Im not from the BB camp that flags participants in the legacy as either purely good or purely bad. I think it's a shame there are so few Murry compositions on record for posterity. He was a key player in creating the band as we know them.

Your Hasselhoff project sounds less challenging than trying to unearth the Murry canon of failed sheets, to be honest. Two Step was an easy target as Guy Lombardo had sheets released through Guild and BMI, but there are many more failed Murry compositions people will likely never hear.

Was the process of unearthing all of that sheet music more difficult than finding out what C50 meant? 

I'm assuming I pissed you off in the 90's or something.

I would say much more recently...

[bgas]

Just got home from seeing the film. My only complaint is that it felt too much like a movie about Melinda to me. Great acting by all involved but the later years all seemed based on Melindas experience. Maybe if the early years had been based on Marilyn's experiences it might have balanced it out? My other takeaway was that this was probably not the best week for me to release a Murry Wilson tribute single. Fresh wounds...

A Murry Wilson tribute, really?

On a related note, I've been trying to get David Hasselhoff's people on the phone to get him on board with a musical tribute to the former East Germany, but they're not returning my calls.

Yup, really. Im not from the BB camp that flags participants in the legacy as either purely good or purely bad. I think it's a shame there are so few Murry compositions on record for posterity. He was a key player in creating the band as we know them.

Your Hasselhoff project sounds less challenging than trying to unearth the Murry canon of failed sheets, to be honest. Two Step was an easy target as Guy Lombardo had sheets released through Guild and BMI, but there are many more failed Murry compositions people will likely never hear.

Not certain what you mean by "failed sheets", but I think Jim Murphy could chime in with how many of Murry's compositions are actually on records. I'd bet on quite a few..

Thanks, I'll try to connect with Jim. From all sources so far, a few is more likely than quite a few if you disregard Many Moods and the Sunrays.

Off the top of my head...  
There were two on an obscure John Buzon Trio LP
Think the  Hollywood Flames did one or two  
Several versions of Two Step were recorded
The Bachelors recorded at least one.
and... time for Jim to jump in.  

[Amy B.]

Van Dyke just re-tweeted this:

Nicky Smith ‏@MUGGER1992  53m53 minutes ago
Brian Wilson biopic LOVE & MERCY bores & inexplicably snubs @thevandykeparks. Watch BEAUTIFUL DREAMER doc instead  http://www.splicetoday.com/moving-pictures/mercy-me-mr-wilson …

I guess we know how VDP feels about the movie. (I really don't think he was "snubbed," though. The movie isn't about the Smile process.)

[bgas]

Just got the new Rolling Stone, small piece on Paul Dano: 

   

[sea of tunes]

Van Dyke just re-tweeted this:

Nicky Smith ‏@MUGGER1992  53m53 minutes ago
Brian Wilson biopic LOVE & MERCY bores & inexplicably snubs @thevandykeparks. Watch BEAUTIFUL DREAMER doc instead  http://www.splicetoday.com/moving-pictures/mercy-me-mr-wilson …

I guess we know how VDP feels about the movie. (I really don't think he was "snubbed," though. The movie isn't about the Smile process.)

I wish VDP wasn't so bitter.  It's very unbecoming.  LOVE & MERCY is two hour movie about the two points in Brian Wilson's life.  Keywords, two hour and Brian Wilson.  VDP is credited as being the lyricist with BDW on SMiLE.  It's not like Tony Asher is delved into much either.  VDP's character has more screen time than Asher's, IIRC. 

It would seem that VDP has an issue with Mrs. Wilson.  I'm just guessing though.

[Paul J B]

Van Dyke just re-tweeted this:

Nicky Smith ‏@MUGGER1992  53m53 minutes ago
Brian Wilson biopic LOVE & MERCY bores & inexplicably snubs @thevandykeparks. Watch BEAUTIFUL DREAMER doc instead  http://www.splicetoday.com/moving-pictures/mercy-me-mr-wilson …

I guess we know how VDP feels about the movie. (I really don't think he was "snubbed," though. The movie isn't about the Smile process.)

I was just about to post my thoughts on the film ....have been trying to figure out what to say since seeing it Monday.... but after reading that. This guy is really starting to rub me and a lot of other people the wrong way. If VDP has something to say (which apparently he does not as he chose NOT to be included in TSS book) then he should say it. Good god, re-tweeting some others persons comment about it being boring and being snubbed.

[Shark]

Junkstar- Is that really you?

Just saw the movie last night with my girlfriend.  Only two other people in the theater for a 7:45PM show.  I thought it was an amazing film.  Kudos to everyone involved.  Going to try and get out to see it at least one more time.  One quick comment on how Mike was portrayed...my girlfriend who knows very little about the history of the band (she knows who Mike was going in and has met Bruce in person but very little about the actual history) turned to me at one point and said, "I hate Mike."  She laughed at the part when Brian was recording the cellos on Good Vibrations and Mike started complaining about how long it was taking and Brian said something along the lines of "If you don't like it, you can just leave."  I felt that they portrayed Mike somewhat fairly, maybe a little bit overboard with the acting, but I don't think most people will leave hating Mike Love. 

[Amy B.]

I was just about to post my thoughts on the film ....have been trying to figure out what to say since seeing it Monday.... but after reading that. This guy is really starting to rub me and a lot of other people the wrong way. If VDP has something to say (which apparently he does not as he chose NOT to be included in TSS book) then he should say it. Good god, re-tweeting some others persons comment about it being boring and being snubbed.

Forgive me for not posting tweets properly (screenshots or whatever):

Van Dyke Parks ‏@thevandykeparks  25m25 minutes ago
A signature one-shot can make a truly great movie. Like my idea of  bowed-8th-note cello  in "Good Vibrations". Oops.


OK, so I guess his problem is that the part in the movie with the cellos in GV (Brian continuously recites the "ta-ta-ta" rhythm to the players until Mike finally tells him enough is enough)-- VDP doesn't get credit for the idea. I know VDP is probably bitter that he didn't get the recognition or income that he deserved, but this movie is not about him. It's about Brian's process, his way of thinking about music, his sensitivity, his decline, etc. It's about Brian. It really wouldn't have made sense to have a scene where VDP said, "Hey Brian, how about triples" and Brian said, "Great idea, Van Dyke!" I think Bill Pohland just wanted to get across that Brian would obsess over sounds and do whatever he could to get exactly what he wanted through the players' instruments. There were a lot of musical ideas in the movie that were probably not Brian's (the Wrecking Crew said they would make suggestions a lot, like staccato notes, etc) where the originator of the idea did not get credit in the movie. That's not what this was about, though. I wonder if VDP has even seen the movie.

[Mooger Fooger]

This passive-agressive approach by VDP is wearing thin. Why doesn't he deal with the problem head-on isntead of this constant woe-is-me whining? Seems pretty childish to me.

[sea of tunes]

Just got the new Rolling Stone, small piece on Paul Dano

That was a nice read.  Thanks for posting.

[Jcc]

I saw the film on Saturday night with my brother and my father-in-law at the ArcLight in Hollywood.  Great evening, and afterwards there was a Q&A with Brian, Melinda, Bill Pohlad, and Paul Dano.  The film was phenomenal, and I can't wait to see it again, especially after reading all of the commentary in the thread so far (especially regarding the symbolism of people in the pool).  A few things I noticed:

1) My father-in-law was hooked in by the Moody Blues concert (B and M's first date).  He likes the Beach Boys, but the Moody Blues are his favorite band.  He thought the inclusion of "Nights in White Satin" was cool.

2) Didn't have a problem with the Cusack scenes.  After a while, Cusack just seems to become Brian.  As far as Landy not being "menacing" enough, remember that Landy was really only menacing to Brian because he had the power of conservator over Brian.  Landy was a pretentious buffoon, but what if the buffoon had the power to make life and death decisions over you, to include institutionalizing you for indefinite periods of time if necessary?  Then the buffoon becomes pretty damn menacing, in my opinion.

3) I don't think the movie was unfavorable to Mike Love at all.  We all have the hindsight of 50 years and we know how the story plays out.  In the 1960's, it was unthinkable that a rock-and-roll band would last 5 years, let along 50.  The peak and the downfall were coming.  I don't look down at Mike for being risk averse and wanting to delay the inevitable as long as possible.  The movie portrays that very well.

4) At the same time, Mike is not a monster.  He and Brian treat each other on generally equal terms.  Notice that the only person that Brian feels comfortable putting in his place is Mike, not Murry, and certainly not Landy.   Mike is not abusive, he's just a stick-in-the-mud when he senses his cousin may very well be descending into madness.

5) The scene with 70's Brian on his back in bed is amazing.  It's reminiscent of certain scenes in the Godfather where there's no action on the screen, but the scene conveys the horror...sort of like looking at a terrible car accident immediately after it's happened but before the police and the paramedics or other first responders have arrived.

6) Did anyone notice the last scene in the pool, which I'm assuming is supposed to be at the Bellagio house in 1968-1969 or the early 1970's, where it's just Brian in the pool...and there's leaves everywhere and it looks like even the buildings are sort of crumbling?  Speaking of the "pool" symbolism and all.

7) Like a lot of people, I'm very interested to see deleted scenes.  I'm sure there's going to be a few on the DVD release.

8. The movie would have obtained ultimate cinematic perfection if during the climactic scene between Landy and Melinda if when the door opened, Melinda had screamed, "You're out of the band, Buckwheat!!"


One last note, the Brian that was at the Q&A was very animated, "with it", and was actually very funny at points.  Unfortunately most of the questions came from what my brother best characterized as "film nerds" making references to the sound editing as "Kubrickesque".   But there was one guy who asked Brian a question and I couldn't really hear it, but he was talking about Pet Sounds being the last of "Brian's streak" and about how if SMiLE had come out that it would have beaten Sgt. Pepper and it would have changed the history of the band.

It was sort of winding up to be an obnoxious question, but then Brian took control, cut the guy off mid-sentence, and started asking him questions.  And these were not delivered in a wimpy tone of voice, but more like Brian was doing an interrogation.  Sort of like R.Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket. Again, this is how I remembered it, so if I get this wrong, please feel free to correct me.

BRIAN:  Do you like SMiLE?

Fan:  Uh, yeah, Brian, it was a great album.

BRIAN: How about Pet Sounds?  Did you like that too?

Fan:  Brian, Pet Sounds is really great.  I love Pet Sounds.

BRIAN:  Well which one did you like best?

Fan:  Brian I'd have to say SMiLE.  That one's really your masterpiece!

BRIAN:  Great.  Thank you for your question!

[pixletwin]

Just got home from seeing the film. My only complaint is that it felt too much like a movie about Melinda to me. Great acting by all involved but the later years all seemed based on Melindas experience. Maybe if the early years had been based on Marilyn's experiences it might have balanced it out? My other takeaway was that this was probably not the best week for me to release a Murry Wilson tribute single. Fresh wounds...

A Murry Wilson tribute, really?

On a related note, I've been trying to get David Hasselhoff's people on the phone to get him on board with a musical tribute to the former East Germany, but they're not returning my calls.

Yup, really. Im not from the BB camp that flags participants in the legacy as either purely good or purely bad. I think it's a shame there are so few Murry compositions on record for posterity. He was a key player in creating the band as we know them.

Your Hasselhoff project sounds less challenging than trying to unearth the Murry canon of failed sheets, to be honest. Two Step was an easy target as Guy Lombardo had sheets released through Guild and BMI, but there are many more failed Murry compositions people will likely never hear.

Was the process of unearthing all of that sheet music more difficult than finding out what C50 meant? 

I'm assuming I pissed you off in the 90's or something.

I would say much more recently...

Shouldn't they rather take it PM then?

[CenturyDeprived]

Van Dyke just re-tweeted this:

Nicky Smith ‏@MUGGER1992  53m53 minutes ago
Brian Wilson biopic LOVE & MERCY bores & inexplicably snubs @thevandykeparks. Watch BEAUTIFUL DREAMER doc instead  http://www.splicetoday.com/moving-pictures/mercy-me-mr-wilson …

I guess we know how VDP feels about the movie. (I really don't think he was "snubbed," though. The movie isn't about the Smile process.)

I feel bad for VDP that he feels that way, and perhaps it's understandable he does, to a point.

I think if he and Brian were currently on better terms (who knows what causes the current state of their relationship), that VDP would have possibly had a bit more representation in the film. Just a bit, like one more scene or something. 

[Junkstar]

Just got home from seeing the film. My only complaint is that it felt too much like a movie about Melinda to me. Great acting by all involved but the later years all seemed based on Melindas experience. Maybe if the early years had been based on Marilyn's experiences it might have balanced it out? My other takeaway was that this was probably not the best week for me to release a Murry Wilson tribute single. Fresh wounds...

A Murry Wilson tribute, really?

On a related note, I've been trying to get David Hasselhoff's people on the phone to get him on board with a musical tribute to the former East Germany, but they're not returning my calls.

Yup, really. Im not from the BB camp that flags participants in the legacy as either purely good or purely bad. I think it's a shame there are so few Murry compositions on record for posterity. He was a key player in creating the band as we know them.

Your Hasselhoff project sounds less challenging than trying to unearth the Murry canon of failed sheets, to be honest. Two Step was an easy target as Guy Lombardo had sheets released through Guild and BMI, but there are many more failed Murry compositions people will likely never hear.

Not certain what you mean by "failed sheets", but I think Jim Murphy could chime in with how many of Murry's compositions are actually on records. I'd bet on quite a few..

Thanks, I'll try to connect with Jim. From all sources so far, a few is more likely than quite a few if you disregard Many Moods and the Sunrays.

Off the top of my head...  
There were two on an obscure John Buzon Trio LP
Think the  Hollywood Flames did one or two  
Several versions of Two Step were recorded
The Bachelors recorded at least one.
and... time for Jim to jump in.  

Yes, Flames stuff still for sale widely along with Bonnie Lou. These are not the tracks I'm looking for, but thanks. I was unaware of John Buzon and will look him up.

[Junkstar]

Junkstar- Is that really you?

Yep. Thanks for noticing! Came to promote my new single and quickly got sucked into a few threads.