Still Cruisin' and Summer In Paradise rerelease?

[Douchepool]

I would tell you but my checks from Mike might stop if they ever start.

Can't let the Love train come to a stop, dude.

[Cam Mott]

I give reasons, you give reasons, you think I'm full of sh*t, I think you're full of sh*t. Why not just leave it there, agree to disagree. Why not just say our peace without all the personalized accusations, insinuations, name calling, even libel. Unless that is OK on this board.

I never meant to let things get to name calling, and if I ever went too far in that, I am sorry.

I didn't mean it specifically to you but I accept your apology.

[Nicko1234]

We are both stubborn SOBs (not an insult; I'm throwing myself in with that label too), and of course fans of this band. The big difference being that one is making futile moves to try to rewrite history, and one isn't.

Well, Cam`s position is always to consider Mike in a positive light and obviously he is wrong a fair amount of the time. Your position, when you are posting your frequent speculations about the band, is always to paint Mike in a negative light. Different sides of the same coin.

Now all of us, myself included, post nonsense at times and I certainly don`t agree with everything that I have posted over the years. But when you post your suppositions the one thing that they have in common is always to see Mike in the worst possible light:-

-   Mike is paying people on this board to post.
-   Mike forced Al to say “One final time” during the C50 so that he might use it for legal reasons later.
-   Mike was the sole cause of VDP not being involved with the release of The Smile Sessions.
-   Mike included a reference to Helter Skelter on LBWL (even though he didn`t write it) as a dig at Dennis.
-   Mike should have given complete control of The Beach Boys name to Brian and his management in 2012 and have been willing to go out under his own        name.
-   NPP took so long to complete because Mike hurt Brian`s feelings.
-   Mike wanted to issue Santa Goes to Kokomo under The Beach Boys name.
-   Mike using videos of Carl and Dennis is exploitation.
-   Mike is emotionally ill.

Now, let`s face it, if even half these things were posted about certain other band members we would have cries of “agenda” or “fight back” across the board.

I'll at least state that my opinions are hypotheses, and not necessarily outright truths, and I'm happy to be proven wrong, as I have been about matters relating to Mike and other band members in the past (and I've happily admitted to such). I hope you don't doubt that, because it's absolutely the truth. I also have a good deal of empathy for the man, whether I've made that clear enough or not.

And if Cam, for example, as you say, is obviously wrong a fair amount of the time, I sure don't see people who typically defend Mike on this board (and who should know better) chiming in and letting him know that he is wrong. 

Absolutely, I agree that you have admitted to being proven wrong on numerous occasions... But your response is inevitably to start another thread which posts another hypothesis which assumes Mike to be the villain.   

Cam is not going to change his mind so why would people bother to chime in? His posts are normally polite to other board members, are pretty innocuous and are easy to ignore. Plus, you show me any fansite where there isn`t a person who thinks the sun shines out of a singer`s behind. It`s normal.

Somebody misunderstanding fandom so much that they believe this can only happen if they are being paid isn`t. 

[CenturyDeprived]

We are both stubborn SOBs (not an insult; I'm throwing myself in with that label too), and of course fans of this band. The big difference being that one is making futile moves to try to rewrite history, and one isn't.

Well, Cam`s position is always to consider Mike in a positive light and obviously he is wrong a fair amount of the time. Your position, when you are posting your frequent speculations about the band, is always to paint Mike in a negative light. Different sides of the same coin.

Now all of us, myself included, post nonsense at times and I certainly don`t agree with everything that I have posted over the years. But when you post your suppositions the one thing that they have in common is always to see Mike in the worst possible light:-

-   Mike is paying people on this board to post.
-   Mike forced Al to say “One final time” during the C50 so that he might use it for legal reasons later.
-   Mike was the sole cause of VDP not being involved with the release of The Smile Sessions.
-   Mike included a reference to Helter Skelter on LBWL (even though he didn`t write it) as a dig at Dennis.
-   Mike should have given complete control of The Beach Boys name to Brian and his management in 2012 and have been willing to go out under his own        name.
-   NPP took so long to complete because Mike hurt Brian`s feelings.
-   Mike wanted to issue Santa Goes to Kokomo under The Beach Boys name.
-   Mike using videos of Carl and Dennis is exploitation.
-   Mike is emotionally ill.

Now, let`s face it, if even half these things were posted about certain other band members we would have cries of “agenda” or “fight back” across the board.

I'll at least state that my opinions are hypotheses, and not necessarily outright truths, and I'm happy to be proven wrong, as I have been about matters relating to Mike and other band members in the past (and I've happily admitted to such). I hope you don't doubt that, because it's absolutely the truth. I also have a good deal of empathy for the man, whether I've made that clear enough or not.

And if Cam, for example, as you say, is obviously wrong a fair amount of the time, I sure don't see people who typically defend Mike on this board (and who should know better) chiming in and letting him know that he is wrong. 

Absolutely, I agree that you have admitted to being proven wrong on numerous occasions... But your response is inevitably to start another thread which posts another hypothesis which assumes Mike to be the villain.   

Cam is not going to change his mind so why would people bother to chime in? His posts are normally polite to other board members, are pretty innocuous and are easy to ignore. Plus, you show me any fansite where there isn`t a person who thinks the sun shines out of a singer`s behind. It`s normal.

Somebody misunderstanding fandom so much that they believe this can only happen if they are being paid isn`t. 

I don't know, man.  The payroll thing may be absurd in this instance, although I wouldn't discount it from being an actual circumstance which happens with a small handful of some entertainers/celebs/musicians... would you? And separately from that discussion, I would be willing to bet money that at least one, if not more of those line items of mine which you posted above have *some*, at least partial truth in them.  I think you would be hesitant to bet any significant amount of money that they are all entirely outright false! Of course, we would need both a time machine and an invisibility cloak in order to prove anything.

[srealist]

Personally, I can not listen to these albums.  More power to anyone who can.

[Nicko1234]

We are both stubborn SOBs (not an insult; I'm throwing myself in with that label too), and of course fans of this band. The big difference being that one is making futile moves to try to rewrite history, and one isn't.

Well, Cam`s position is always to consider Mike in a positive light and obviously he is wrong a fair amount of the time. Your position, when you are posting your frequent speculations about the band, is always to paint Mike in a negative light. Different sides of the same coin.

Now all of us, myself included, post nonsense at times and I certainly don`t agree with everything that I have posted over the years. But when you post your suppositions the one thing that they have in common is always to see Mike in the worst possible light:-

-   Mike is paying people on this board to post.
-   Mike forced Al to say “One final time” during the C50 so that he might use it for legal reasons later.
-   Mike was the sole cause of VDP not being involved with the release of The Smile Sessions.
-   Mike included a reference to Helter Skelter on LBWL (even though he didn`t write it) as a dig at Dennis.
-   Mike should have given complete control of The Beach Boys name to Brian and his management in 2012 and have been willing to go out under his own        name.
-   NPP took so long to complete because Mike hurt Brian`s feelings.
-   Mike wanted to issue Santa Goes to Kokomo under The Beach Boys name.
-   Mike using videos of Carl and Dennis is exploitation.
-   Mike is emotionally ill.

Now, let`s face it, if even half these things were posted about certain other band members we would have cries of “agenda” or “fight back” across the board.

I'll at least state that my opinions are hypotheses, and not necessarily outright truths, and I'm happy to be proven wrong, as I have been about matters relating to Mike and other band members in the past (and I've happily admitted to such). I hope you don't doubt that, because it's absolutely the truth. I also have a good deal of empathy for the man, whether I've made that clear enough or not.

And if Cam, for example, as you say, is obviously wrong a fair amount of the time, I sure don't see people who typically defend Mike on this board (and who should know better) chiming in and letting him know that he is wrong. 

Absolutely, I agree that you have admitted to being proven wrong on numerous occasions... But your response is inevitably to start another thread which posts another hypothesis which assumes Mike to be the villain.   

Cam is not going to change his mind so why would people bother to chime in? His posts are normally polite to other board members, are pretty innocuous and are easy to ignore. Plus, you show me any fansite where there isn`t a person who thinks the sun shines out of a singer`s behind. It`s normal.

Somebody misunderstanding fandom so much that they believe this can only happen if they are being paid isn`t. 

I don't know, man.  The payroll thing may be absurd in this instance, although I wouldn't discount it from being an actual circumstance which happens with a small handful of some entertainers/celebs/musicians... would you? And separately from that discussion, I would be willing to bet money that at least one, if not more of those line items of mine which you posted above have *some*, at least partial truth in them.  I think you would be hesitant to bet any significant amount of money that they are all entirely outright false! Of course, we would need both a time machine and an invisibility cloak in order to prove anything.

Even if that were true, then I`m sure that at least one in every nine posts that Cam makes "have *some*, at least partial truth in them". Doesn`t say much though does it...

[Andrew G. Doe]

If you wouldn't quantify some Mike defenders' writings on this board as over-the-top extremism of its own kind (writings can be extremist without Hitler references), I'd like to know what exactly would constitute pro-Mike extremism.

That would be qualitative rather than quantitative. For me, and purely for me, pro- or anti-OTT extremisim, for any given subject, constitutes ignoring historical fact, an inability to see any other viewpoint other than your own and becoming belligerent when challenged on those two points. Actually, that's pretty much a perfect description of a religious zealot. 

[Douchepool]

Keep in mind, to some folks the definition of "extreme" is anything that flies in the face of their preconceived notions.

[Andrew G. Doe]

A closed mind is a terrible thing.

[Cam Mott]

About 90% of what is said here is opinion in my opinion. Opinion v. opinion, so maybe people shouldn't get too snotty about who thinks who is wrong and right or admits who is wrong or right.  However, my own understanding of the history has changed 100% on many aspects so the idea that it hasn't/doesn't is factually wrong.

"Rewrite history" was the term of the day yesterday.  It seems to me the understanding of history is rewritten all of the time especially BB history.  The best ever threads on this board have rewritten the understanding of history.

Anyways, I'm tired of defending myself against this personal crap (just because I don't agree with someone's opinion) so I'm going to try and ignore it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If we'd not rewritten BB history, then we'd still "know" that...

The band never actually played on their hits...
David was just a temporary replacement for Alan...
Dennis was a rubbish drummer...
Mike was married 8 times...
Alan left the band to go to dental college...
Brian stayed in bed 1971-76...
Carl's first lead vocal was "Girl Don't Tell Me"...
Murry smacked Brian in the head with a baseball bat in Little League...

Yup, gotta love them "facts". 

[Douchepool]

You can't rewrite history if it goes against one's preconceived notions, dontchasee.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Bruce killed a man in Iowa in 1995 for sleeping during Kokomo.

[Lee Marshall]

Bruce killed a man in Iowa in 1995 for sleeping during Kokomo.

So the guy actually survived?

[Douchepool]

He killed them with silky smooth electric piano styling.

[CenturyDeprived]

If we'd not rewritten BB history, then we'd still "know" that...

The band never actually played on their hits...
David was just a temporary replacement for Alan...
Dennis was a rubbish drummer...
Mike was married 8 times...
Alan left the band to go to dental college...
Brian stayed in bed 1971-76...
Carl's first lead vocal was "Girl Don't Tell Me"...
Murry smacked Brian in the head with a baseball bat in Little League...

Yup, gotta love them "facts".  

Yes, there have indeed been many things regarding this band that were previously widely regarded a certain way that were fortunately later proven wrong.

That doesn't negate the fact that there are people (and one person in particular) who are going way too far and claiming absurd things which are an attempt to rewrite history in a grossly inaccurate way.  There is such a thing as bad and hare-brained history-rewriting attempts regarding this band, especially on the pro-Mike side.  That's a "thing"; it happens, as sure as the sky is blue.   Regardless of "political" affiliation or motive, learned BB fans should be bugged enough to point that stuff out, across the political spectrum.

It's so incredibly frustrating that while some people on the pro-Mike side are essentially willing to vaguely admit that there are some undeniably illogical and at times absurd pro-Mike ideas spouted on this board, the actual pointing out of that is seeminly *always* left to people like myself, guitarfool, heyjude, etc. It sucks, because it just furthers the divide, and makes it more about one side vs another side.

As I have pointed out before, I have defended Mike on numerous occasions, and have outright told people in person that they have the wrong idea about many things about him, whenever I hear things that are grossly inaccurate. I will swoop in to say so.  

[SMiLE Brian]

But it's the history rewrite of events like Mike bullying BW at Wally heider that is most concerning to me. It's like some posters under the guise of being "neutral" historians are doing this.

[Douchepool]

If you're referring to the Michael rant over the Heroes and Villains track, that was a Brian-directed session.

[CenturyDeprived]

But it's the history rewrite of events like Mike bullying BW at Wally heider that is most concerning to me. It's like some posters under the guise of being "neutral" historians are doing this.

The thought of any bandmate bullying another bandmate is not a pretty thought to have, nor an easy thing to reconcile. But I will never understand those who think it's impossible to believe that it ever could have happened in this band with Brian on the receiving end. Why is it such an absolutely, ridiculously preposterous notion that it could have happened at some point?  

And why do some posters fervently believe in 100% accuracy that Brian believed that musical ideas were actually, in fact, "inappropriate", while that term could never in a million years conceivably be applied to how he might have been treated at times by others?

I'm sure that I will get no actual direct response to this query from those posters whose actions I speak of, without there somehow answering a question with a question (in other words, a non-answer), or saying that nobody ever has the right to ever consider another person's actions as even slightly veering into bullying territory without medically quantifiable proof of physical harm. Amiright?

[Andrew G. Doe]

If you're referring to the Michael rant over the Heroes and Villains track, that was a Brian-directed session.

Think the incident in question is the one Chuck Negron claims to have witnessed during a Redwood session.

[SMiLE Brian]

The incident happened, I thought the board came to a consensus...

[Douchepool]

Well, Michael wasn't the only one involved in the alleged "Redwood incident" according to Chuck Negron. He also names Carl and Al alongside Michael. So all three allegedly reduced Brian to tears.

[SMiLE Brian]

Yeah, it's agreed they were there with Michael. Such a bad time....

[Douchepool]

Honestly, given the players involved, I wouldn't be surprised if they reduced Brian to tears. I would take the story into question is Dennis was among them, though. Dennis seemed to be the only one in that band to have Brian's back one hundred percent of the time.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, Michael wasn't the only one involved in the alleged "Redwood incident" according to Chuck Negron. He also names Carl and Al alongside Michael. So all three allegedly reduced Brian to tears.

Problem is that, if the track was "Darlin'" as is generally agreed, the sessions were at the home studio, and not Wally Heider's - October 11th, 1967 - as was the "TTGA" session the next day.