On The Island vs Kokomo

[The Real Barnyard]

Same concept. Same mood. Similar lyrics. Is this Brian's version of Kokomo?

"We'll be taking it slow" ---> "And then we'll take it slow"
"The rhythmic beat of this tropical band" ---> "To the rhythm of a steel drum band"
"With a drink in my hand" ---> "Tropical drink melting in your hand"

At least, it seems like Brian had Kokomo in mind when he wrote this.

[Debbie Keil-Leavitt]

I suppose in the same context as "Wild Honey" is Brian's version of "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" by Kasenetz & Katz?

[The Shift]

Same token: Runaway Dancer is NPP's Here Comes the Night '79 – well produced disco track that sticks out like an ill-considered sore thumb placement on an otherwise fine album.

[Cabinessenceking]

I think On The Island is a very pleasant bossa nova song. Not at all like Kokomo which is an atrocity to the ears.

[Cyncie]

I'd say both sets of lyrics are influenced by the same thing that influence Margaritaville-trop-rock themes.  You know, the whole island lifestyle mystique: living on island time, it's 5 O'Clock somewhere, taking it slow with a drink in my hand.  You can find variations of those lyrics on any number of modern island life songs, and lyrics depicting the easy-going island lifestyle pre-date Buffet, Alan Jackson and the Zac Brown band.

Besides, it's a Bossa Nova. Island life lyrics are a natural theme for a Brazilian song form.  I don't think Brian was thinking "Oh, I've gotta do my own Kokomo since I missed out on the first one."

[Sam_BFC]

I like both songs, but think they're fairly different aside from the lyrical similarities.

On The Island has a far more retro/vintage thing going on in my opinion.

[Debbie Keil-Leavitt]

I'd say both sets of lyrics are influenced by the same thing that influence Margaritaville-trop-rock themes.  You know, the whole island lifestyle mystique: living on island time, it's 5 O'Clock somewhere, taking it slow with a drink in my hand.  You can find variations of those lyrics on any number of modern island life songs, and lyrics depicting the easy-going island lifestyle pre-date Buffet, Alan Jackson and the Zac Brown band.

Besides, it's a Bossa Nova. Island life lyrics are a natural theme for a Brazilian song form.  I don't think Brian was thinking "Oh, I've gotta do my own Kokomo since I missed out on the first one."

Thanks for saying it better than me and my ill-conceived sarcastic comment - tropical-themed lyrics, different genres of music.

[Cyncie]

I'd say both sets of lyrics are influenced by the same thing that influence Margaritaville-trop-rock themes.  You know, the whole island lifestyle mystique: living on island time, it's 5 O'Clock somewhere, taking it slow with a drink in my hand.  You can find variations of those lyrics on any number of modern island life songs, and lyrics depicting the easy-going island lifestyle pre-date Buffet, Alan Jackson and the Zac Brown band.

Besides, it's a Bossa Nova. Island life lyrics are a natural theme for a Brazilian song form.  I don't think Brian was thinking "Oh, I've gotta do my own Kokomo since I missed out on the first one."

Thanks for saying it better than me and my ill-conceived sarcastic comment - tropical-themed lyrics, different genres of music.

Hah. But, your point was made.  

I think Trop Rock did for island life what the Beach Boys did for Southern California. It created that lifestyle mystique that people like to dream about and sing about. It's fun to see the guy who helped make that California mystique explore the other one.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I like both songs, but think they're fairly different aside from the lyrical similarities.

On The Island has a far more retro/vintage thing going on in my opinion.

Exactly...hell, they're two completely different genres musically!

[sockittome]

Same concept. Same mood. Similar lyrics. Is this Brian's version of Kokomo?

"We'll be taking it slow" ---> "And then we'll take it slow"
"The rhythmic beat of this tropical band" ---> "To the rhythm of a steel drum band"
"With a drink in my hand" ---> "Tropical drink melting in your hand"

At least, it seems like Brian had Kokomo in mind when he wrote this.

I don't think Brian would have consciously borrowed from Kokomo like that.  What would be the point?  I believe that the above examples are merely common descriptions of a similar theme. 

Like the car songs or the surfing songs on the early BBs albums.

[guitarfool2002]

No.

Here:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18540.msg506176.html#msg506176

And here:

4. On The Island (featuring Zooey Deschanel and M. Ward)
There exists a sub-culture of sorts that brings together people who are into music, design, and culture from a specific era in American history. Call it Kitsch as it used to be known, call it Retro Hip as some call it now, label it Lounge, Exotica, Cocktail, Swank...whatever the terms may be to label it. You'll see these people in vintage shops, second hand stores, estate sales, flea markets, etc. searching for clothes, records, furniture, lamps, pictures, whatever the case from that era. They often wear the styles from that time, have their hair styled from that time period, and have their homes decorated from that period of design.

On the hi-fi, you'll probably hear records from Arthur Lyman, Esquivel, Astrud Gilberto, Les Baxter, any number of those artists with their album covers featuring exotic or retro-kitschy imagery. Space age, exotic, all of that stuff. They spent years looking through dusty old boxes of albums from someone's parents' collection that was considered by many to be easy listening or worse, but which sounds very pleasing and inviting to many ears tuned into that style. They may even find a little club in a city somewhere that has a DJ spinning this music, complete with cocktails flowing and all other trappings of the scene.

Included in that scene are those like Zooey Deschanel who embrace the look and the sounds in the modern day. The influence is obvious for those who know what it's all about, visually and musically.

Included as well are musicians like Brian Wilson who used some of the same off-the-wall instrumental combinations and percussion sounds from those late-50's and early-60's Space Age records in his own productions. Included in those was also a love for the Bossa Nova sound, whose main architect was Jobim and whose songs those artists like Astrud Gilberto, Stan Getz, and even Frank Sinatra adapted into their repertoire.

Brian knew and liked Bossa Nova, in fact he could write a mean Bossa Nova dating back to the 1960's. On The Island is a mean Bossa Nova. Authentic in sound and structure, and lending a definite nod of inspiration to the previous Bossa artists like Astrud Gilberto in Zooey's lead vocal.

This is supposed to be a tribute to those sounds, a nod of appreciation to both the original artists who wrote the book on Bossa Nova as well as the future generations of fans who kept it alive in all of the various Retro and Vintage and Exotica revivals. Fun, authentic, and a nod to the theme of escapism as heard in Brian's music since the earliest songs.


Craig C (guitarfool2002) April 2015

Listen - "Summer Samba", Walter Wanderley and Astrud Gilberto:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Rm11Bl8xQ



Different genres entirely.

[Cyncie]

No.

Here:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18540.msg506176.html#msg506176

And here:

4. On The Island (featuring Zooey Deschanel and M. Ward)
There exists a sub-culture of sorts that brings together people who are into music, design, and culture from a specific era in American history. Call it Kitsch as it used to be known, call it Retro Hip as some call it now, label it Lounge, Exotica, Cocktail, Swank...whatever the terms may be to label it. You'll see these people in vintage shops, second hand stores, estate sales, flea markets, etc. searching for clothes, records, furniture, lamps, pictures, whatever the case from that era. They often wear the styles from that time, have their hair styled from that time period, and have their homes decorated from that period of design.

On the hi-fi, you'll probably hear records from Arthur Lyman, Esquivel, Astrud Gilberto, Les Baxter, any number of those artists with their album covers featuring exotic or retro-kitschy imagery. Space age, exotic, all of that stuff. They spent years looking through dusty old boxes of albums from someone's parents' collection that was considered by many to be easy listening or worse, but which sounds very pleasing and inviting to many ears tuned into that style. They may even find a little club in a city somewhere that has a DJ spinning this music, complete with cocktails flowing and all other trappings of the scene.

Included in that scene are those like Zooey Deschanel who embrace the look and the sounds in the modern day. The influence is obvious for those who know what it's all about, visually and musically.

Included as well are musicians like Brian Wilson who used some of the same off-the-wall instrumental combinations and percussion sounds from those late-50's and early-60's Space Age records in his own productions. Included in those was also a love for the Bossa Nova sound, whose main architect was Jobim and whose songs those artists like Astrud Gilberto, Stan Getz, and even Frank Sinatra adapted into their repertoire.

Brian knew and liked Bossa Nova, in fact he could write a mean Bossa Nova dating back to the 1960's. On The Island is a mean Bossa Nova. Authentic in sound and structure, and lending a definite nod of inspiration to the previous Bossa artists like Astrud Gilberto in Zooey's lead vocal.

This is supposed to be a tribute to those sounds, a nod of appreciation to both the original artists who wrote the book on Bossa Nova as well as the future generations of fans who kept it alive in all of the various Retro and Vintage and Exotica revivals. Fun, authentic, and a nod to the theme of escapism as heard in Brian's music since the earliest songs.


Craig C (guitarfool2002) April 2015

Listen - "Summer Samba", Walter Wanderley and Astrud Gilberto:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Rm11Bl8xQ



Different genres entirely.

Exactly. And, I think the video for "On the Island" perfectly captures that "retro is hip and quirky" vibe. It's annoying to me when the reviews refer to it as too "loungy." That view of the Bossa Nova/Samba forms is annoying. Thanks to all of the TV producers who slandered "Girl From Ipanema" as elevator music.

[SBonilla]

No.

Here:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18540.msg506176.html#msg506176

And here:

4. On The Island (featuring Zooey Deschanel and M. Ward)

...Included as well are musicians like Brian Wilson who used some of the same off-the-wall instrumental combinations and percussion sounds from those late-50's and early-60's Space Age records in his own productions. Included in those was also a love for the Bossa Nova sound, whose main architect was Jobim and whose songs those artists like Astrud Gilberto, Stan Getz, and even Frank Sinatra adapted into their repertoire.

Brian knew and liked Bossa Nova, in fact he could write a mean Bossa Nova dating back to the 1960's...
Craig C (guitarfool2002) April 2015

Listen - "Summer Samba", Walter Wanderley and Astrud Gilberto:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Rm11Bl8xQ
...

Off and on topic:
About a year ago I was listening to Astrud Gilberto's version of "Dindi" (pronounced jin-jee) and I was struck by something.  I believe Brian had to have heard that record in 1965 and was majorly influenced by the chord progression (that song uses parallel minor chords where Brian disguises those chords by essentially making them major 6th chords) and the instrumentation (especially the use of flute). Also Brian uses Dindi's harmonic dynamic and structure in Caroline, No. Dindi has a separate musical intro, though, where Brian uses a verse, verse, bridge structure. 

There is also Brian's incorporation (coincidental, or not) of the Portuguese 'saudade' into the overall feeling of Caroline, No. 'Saudade' is a feeling of sweet sadness and longing (there is no equivalent English word).  Maybe he has that feeling anyway, but I don't think we can discount that Bossa Nova's saudade was something that might have been very appealing to Brian.

I think Bossa Nova's influence on Caroline, No has gone unnoticed because there is no Bossa Nova clave (the underlying rhythm motif, typically played on the snare rim) in the song. It's also a ballad, and the absence of a Samba feel adds to that.

And if he didn't hear that record? So what.  In my mind these musical first cousins are inextricably linked.

 

[phirnis]

I too think the two songs have a lot in common, in fact I'd go even further and say On the Island would've fit on Summer in Paradise as that was essentially a full album of variations on Kokomo. Can't you just hear Mike Love whisper the lyrics in your ear?

[Autotune]

No.

Here:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18540.msg506176.html#msg506176

And here:

4. On The Island (featuring Zooey Deschanel and M. Ward)

...Included as well are musicians like Brian Wilson who used some of the same off-the-wall instrumental combinations and percussion sounds from those late-50's and early-60's Space Age records in his own productions. Included in those was also a love for the Bossa Nova sound, whose main architect was Jobim and whose songs those artists like Astrud Gilberto, Stan Getz, and even Frank Sinatra adapted into their repertoire.

Brian knew and liked Bossa Nova, in fact he could write a mean Bossa Nova dating back to the 1960's...
Craig C (guitarfool2002) April 2015

Listen - "Summer Samba", Walter Wanderley and Astrud Gilberto:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Rm11Bl8xQ
...

Off and on topic:
About a year ago I was listening to Astrud Gilberto's version of "Dindi" (pronounced jin-jee) and I was struck by something.  I believe Brian had to have heard that record in 1965 and was majorly influenced by the chord progression (that song uses parallel minor chords where Brian disguises those chords by essentially making them major 6th chords) and the instrumentation (especially the use of flute). Also Brian uses Dindi's harmonic dynamic and structure in Caroline, No. Dindi has a separate musical intro, though, where Brian uses a verse, verse, bridge structure. 

There is also Brian's incorporation (coincidental, or not) of the Portuguese 'saudade' into the overall feeling of Caroline, No. 'Saudade' is a feeling of sweet sadness and longing (there is no equivalent English word).  Maybe he has that feeling anyway, but I don't think we can discount that Bossa Nova's saudade was something that might have been very appealing to Brian.

I think Bossa Nova's influence on Caroline, No has gone unnoticed because there is no Bossa Nova clave (the underlying rhythm motif, typically played on the snare rim) in the song. It's also a ballad, and the absence of a Samba feel adds to that.

And if he didn't hear that record? So what.  In my mind these musical first cousins are inextricably linked.

 

Good points. You may be onto something. There is, of course, an exotica/bossa/easy listening trilogy on Per Sounds with LGAFAW, PS and Caroline No. And Brian taking from bossa (which may have an easy listening vibe but is highly complex music), makes perfect sense after listening to Caroline No.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Same concept. Same mood. Similar lyrics. Is this Brian's version of Kokomo?

"We'll be taking it slow" ---> "And then we'll take it slow"
"The rhythmic beat of this tropical band" ---> "To the rhythm of a steel drum band"
"With a drink in my hand" ---> "Tropical drink melting in your hand"

At least, it seems like Brian had Kokomo in mind when he wrote this.

Yes, Barnyard2, I hear the same concept and same mood, too.

In a few interviews I saw and read, Brian Wilson appeared...disappointed...that he did NOT appear on "Kokomo", a No. 1 single and the group's largest selling single. And, we know that Brian then appeared on the Spanish version of "Kokomo"; not many people heard that version.

I thought that "South American" from Imagination was inspired by "Kokomo"; Jimmy Buffett was even recruited to contribute to add his "tropical feel". And now I wonder if "On The Island" is yet another song influenced by "Kokomo"? Sadly, again, it doesn't appear that many people will hear "On The Island" either.

A song does NOT have to be of the same genre to be influenced or inspired by another song. The Doors' "Riders On The Storm" is an example of this. "Riders On The Storm" was influenced and inspired by the song, "Ghost Riders In The Sky". However, the Doors' arrangement does not have much of a country-western feel and Jim Morrison's vocal doesn't even remotely channel Vaughn Monroe's.

Barnyard2 asks - Did Brian have "Kokomo" in mind when he wrote "On The Island"? First you have to assume that Brian had anything to do with the idea for the song in the first place...

[Bill30022]

Barnyard,

Way to go. Mike's suit claiming co-writing credit will be filed tomorrow.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Barnyard,

Way to go. Mike's suit claiming co-writing credit will be filed tomorrow.

Yeah, and he'll probably throw in a couple of BW songs that he had nothing to do with for the Hell of it. Why not? He's done it before. 

[Gerry]

Why would you assume that Brian had nothing to do with the concept of the song ? Did you read something somewhere?

[guitarfool2002]

Sadly, again, it doesn't appear that many people will hear "On The Island" either.



Barnyard2 asks - Did Brian have "Kokomo" in mind when he wrote "On The Island"? First you have to assume that Brian had anything to do with the idea for the song in the first place...

Total bullshit on both points. Especially egregious in light of chastising other members in that other thread for comments about the Mike interview.

[Robbie Mac]

Where's Ray when you need him?

[Lee Marshall]

The only similarity I hear is that both are sung by women.

[sockittome]

What version of Kokomo have you been listening to?

[rab2591]

The only similarity I hear is that both are sung by women.

[SMiLE Brian]

Add some, can you let OSD on your radio show?