Mike Love states touring band in best shape vocally since original group

[John Manning]

And...that it isn't used...primarily is JUST as important ultimately as Andrew's and Jon's [and others] quest to make sure that the right people are credited for their work playing the instruments on specific songs and albums...as opposed to the myths which all too often  seem to overtake the truth.

To keep this myth from being auto-turned into fact is just as important. 

Unfortunately, I doubt it will ever be as easy to “prove” the autotune issue one way or the other. It isn’t like looking up AFM contracts and listening to old session tapes.

I agree that an unsubstantiated allegation becoming the “truth” over time is troubling. But this could apply to either side of the autotune issue.

The evidence, all of it circumstantial, in my opinion largely points to it having been used to some degree in some spots. I would be troubled by any piece/work that painted the “autotune” issue dismissively, as if a few fringe weirdos made the accusation. If anything, and I’m facing this myself as I continue to think about my own full review of the album, the “autotune” issue in relation to reviewing the album has become an issue in and of itself. It pervades the discussion of the album so much that it would be hard to review the album at this stage without mentioning that the issue itself is being hotly debated among fans.

Yes, yes...THIS:
"It pervades the discussion of the album so much that it would be hard to review the album at this stage without mentioning that the issue itself is being hotly debated among fans."

This is exactly my pet peeve. A non-issue, more or less, has had the effect on at least one person (you, HeyJude) to where "autotune" gets implanted into the experience of hearing the album with open ears and an open mind.

That is the insidious part of it, the bullshit in other words. It's my big issue, this one. To have your experience as a fan affected in any way by such a "pervading" issue, I'd call it an intrusion, is perhaps *exactly* the way this was set up to do. Call it an agenda, call it trolling, call it Henry or Bill...

It's fucking insidious, pardon the language.

Heyjude, please ignore the pervading issues and go into it with a smile of expectation and excitement rather than letting this subliminal autotune whisper-campaign sort of bullshit interrupt your feelings as a fan and as a commentator. Because as much as you've made the case for fans reporting what they heard and perceived, there is the other less honest side of it at play too.

f*** autotune and those who may be pushing it in the negative/passive way to diminish or alter anyone's impression of it. Listen with your heart, not just your ears. That's how the album was designed to be experienced.

Agree wholeheartedly. I've found myself expecting pitch correcting / Auto tune… whatever… with every listen to NPP and still haven't been able to detect it - but listening out for it is detracting from my enjoyment.

Also, the line about Mike being "fed" the Auto Tune line… well I wouldn't be surprised if that did originate in something he or an acquaintance read here on this board. I've suspected in the past that some band principals (or their representatives here on Earth) come here to find out what they're supposed to be doing/have done, and this is another coincidence.

As for Auto tune migrating to this thread, well, maybe that's not a bad thing - if all the conspiracy theories are in one place, it saves the CIA the effort of having to search for them.

John Lennon, on the grassy knoll, with a machete.

[Misterlou]

As said earlier, Mike is his own worst enemy. The other thing I find is that people who really possess certain traits, let's take positivity in this instance, as it applies, don't go around telling people they are positive. In fact, they may not even know they are that way until it's pointed out by someone else. My life experience suggests that people who go to the trouble to point out so-called positive traits in themselves, like a positive attitude, are usually wanting but lacking the very thing they profess to have, and it's obvious to everyone but them.

[HeyJude]

And...that it isn't used...primarily is JUST as important ultimately as Andrew's and Jon's [and others] quest to make sure that the right people are credited for their work playing the instruments on specific songs and albums...as opposed to the myths which all too often  seem to overtake the truth.

To keep this myth from being auto-turned into fact is just as important. 

Unfortunately, I doubt it will ever be as easy to “prove” the autotune issue one way or the other. It isn’t like looking up AFM contracts and listening to old session tapes.

I agree that an unsubstantiated allegation becoming the “truth” over time is troubling. But this could apply to either side of the autotune issue.

The evidence, all of it circumstantial, in my opinion largely points to it having been used to some degree in some spots. I would be troubled by any piece/work that painted the “autotune” issue dismissively, as if a few fringe weirdos made the accusation. If anything, and I’m facing this myself as I continue to think about my own full review of the album, the “autotune” issue in relation to reviewing the album has become an issue in and of itself. It pervades the discussion of the album so much that it would be hard to review the album at this stage without mentioning that the issue itself is being hotly debated among fans.

Yes, yes...THIS:
"It pervades the discussion of the album so much that it would be hard to review the album at this stage without mentioning that the issue itself is being hotly debated among fans."

This is exactly my pet peeve. A non-issue, more or less, has had the effect on at least one person (you, HeyJude) to where "autotune" gets implanted into the experience of hearing the album with open ears and an open mind.

That is the insidious part of it, the bullshit in other words. It's my big issue, this one. To have your experience as a fan affected in any way by such a "pervading" issue, I'd call it an intrusion, is perhaps *exactly* the way this was set up to do. Call it an agenda, call it trolling, call it Henry or Bill...

It's fucking insidious, pardon the language.

Heyjude, please ignore the pervading issues and go into it with a smile of expectation and excitement rather than letting this subliminal autotune whisper-campaign sort of bullshit interrupt your feelings as a fan and as a commentator. Because as much as you've made the case for fans reporting what they heard and perceived, there is the other less honest side of it at play too.

f*** autotune and those who may be pushing it in the negative/passive way to diminish or alter anyone's impression of it. Listen with your heart, not just your ears. That's how the album was designed to be experienced.

Agree wholeheartedly. I've found myself expecting pitch correcting / Auto tune… whatever… with every listen to NPP and still haven't been able to detect it - but listening out for it is detracting from my enjoyment.

Also, the line about Mike being "fed" the Auto Tune line… well I wouldn't be surprised if that did originate in something he or an acquaintance read here on this board. I've suspected in the past that some band principals (or their representatives here on Earth) come here to find out what they're supposed to be doing/have done, and this is another coincidence.

As for Auto tune migrating to this thread, well, maybe that's not a bad thing - if all the conspiracy theories are in one place, it saves the CIA the effort of having to search for them.

John Lennon, on the grassy knoll, with a machete.

I certainly think it’s a bummer if anybody’s enjoyment of the new album is being compromised in any way. But if *not hearing* the autotune is bugging people who don’t think it’s there or don’t care *more* than *hearing* autotune is bugging people who do care to some degree that it’s there, I’m not sure what can be done about that.

Either way, it seems like, as is sometimes the case of message boards/forums, it has become a rather “meta” sort of discussion. We’re not talking about autotune anymore. We’re talking about talking about autotune now. I empathize with and to some degree agree with the fears that some sort of misconception might turn into “the truth.” But I don’t think the autotune thing is one of those cases. It’s not one of those blatantly false things that needs to be (or can be) disproven. It’s a very open-ended, provocative topic.

[SurfJohnB]

Maybe Mike is unhappy he sounds like a robot on the C50 live album?

[HeyJude]

Maybe Mike is unhappy he sounds like a robot on the C50 live album?

We’ve heard some indirect reports, if I’m recalling correctly, that he did indeed express displeasure to somebody about that sound on the live album. But he’s not objective about anything to do with C50, so his opinion on it doesn’t carry much weight with me. The autotune is a mess on that album (on certain tracks much more than others), but if Mike otherwise felt better about all the other aspects of C50, I doubt he’d be hammering things that he, on some level, has negative feelings about. A lot of people do this in certain circumstances. It’s the same reason that stuff Mike has said post-C50 was not heard for him during C50.

I’m surprised he hasn’t specifically mentioned the autotune on the live album, as that would be an obvious thing to bludgeon Joe Thomas (and Brian) with. He seems more bent out of shape he wasn’t a bigger part of the studio album.

Some have also suggested that you can hear autotune on some of Mike’s non-BB products, such as some of the stuff from the “Mike Love Not War/Unleash the Love, etc” material. I haven’t gone back lately to listen to any of that stuff. But considering Mike is self-professed to be far less interested in studio work than Brian, I think it’s plausible that his stuff was autotuned without his detailed knowledge.

[CenturyDeprived]

Maybe Mike is unhappy he sounds like a robot on the C50 live album?

I have a hunch that not a single member of the BBs has actually heard a single note from the C50 live album, or no more than a casual brief listen at most. Not quite sure what the motivation would be for any parties involved to relive that time in album form, what with all the bad vibrations that it ended with.

[HeyJude]

I think someone, perhaps AGD, made a passing reference to Mike (and perhaps Bruce) having heard enough of the live album to not be happy with the autotune/sound. I can’t find the post quickly here, though. Whatever the reference, I believe it was in passing. It wasn’t from a formal Q&A or anything.

The C50 live album was probably the weakest product to come out of the whole reunion project. The band didn’t seem to care, nor did Capitol. I don’t know how much of that was due to the dissolution of the reunion itself. Nobody hyped it at all. It was almost like somebody eventually mentioned “oh yeah, I guess we should do a live album from the tour.”

But yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if none of them actually sat down and listened to the whole thing from beginning to end. They probably rarely if ever do that with any of their albums, certainly in retrospect years later. Brian would have been the only one who possibly did anything hands-on for the live album. Other than possibly Brian, everybody else’s involvement probably consisted of being given a copy. I suppose it’s possible they helped pick the tracks. I dunno.

[Rocker]

I think someone, perhaps AGD, made a passing reference to Mike (and perhaps Bruce) having heard enough of the live album to not be happy with the autotune/sound. I can’t find the post quickly here, though. Whatever the reference, I believe it was in passing. It wasn’t from a formal Q&A or anything.

The C50 live album was probably the weakest product to come out of the whole reunion project. The band didn’t seem to care, nor did Capitol. I don’t know how much of that was due to the dissolution of the reunion itself. Nobody hyped it at all. It was almost like somebody eventually mentioned “oh yeah, I guess we should do a live album from the tour.”

But yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if none of them actually sat down and listened to the whole thing from beginning to end. They probably rarely if ever do that with any of their albums, certainly in retrospect years later. Brian would have been the only one who possibly did anything hands-on for the live album. Other than possibly Brian, everybody else’s involvement probably consisted of being given a copy. I suppose it’s possible they helped pick the tracks. I dunno.

Well, the songs on the album that came from some TV show or something similar (Isn't It Zime for example) sounded like they just copied it from the TV mix IIRC. All in all they mostly used recordings from earlier concerts (maybe because of contracts?) I believe and not only did their performances get better and better as the tour went on, in the earlier shows there was something done with Brian's microphone. Maybe this was because they had the live album in mind. No matter what, the album is a desaster. It sounds so sterile and like the audience was overdubbed later; so much isolation between the music and the audience that there's really no atmosphere. Plus the edits of studio and live singing (again Isn't It Time) is amateurish. Great chance, great blow.

[Doo Dah]

I don't profess to being adept at determining subtle, tasteful applications of autotuna. Obviously, the C50 live release was a primer in what not to do - but what about the Chiba, Japan television recording? My favorite live artifact from C50; wasn't there some vocal manipulation going on there? The vocals pop, they shine. Hard to believe it wasn't doctored with (however judiciously).

[Rocker]

I don't profess to being adept at determining subtle, tasteful applications of autotuna. Obviously, the C50 live release was a primer in what not to do - but what about the Chiba, Japan television recording?

IIRC they took at least "Isn't it time" from that performance and put it on the CD.

[Pretty Funky]

I don't profess to being adept at determining subtle, tasteful applications of autotuna. Obviously, the C50 live release was a primer in what not to do - but what about the Chiba, Japan television recording? My favorite live artifact from C50; wasn't there some vocal manipulation going on there? The vocals pop, they shine. Hard to believe it wasn't doctored with (however judiciously).

Pretty sure its been said by others but DIA is the 2011 remake on the Chiba show.

[donald]

I will have to add my appreciation of the accapello version on Their Hearts Were Full of Spring last month when I saw them.  and not just without musical instruments of any kind, but without microphones or amplification.    I have NEVER seen or heard that done.    They are currently VERY good both musically and vocally.    that is just simply a fact

[startBBtoday]

Since Mike's comment about Brian's voice was in reference to TWGMTR, perhaps he was upset that other band members didn't receive more leads on the album, which I think is a valid complaint.

Obviously Mike could have said it a different way, but that could be said for many things he's done over the last 50 years.

It's a bit odd that Al's voice is more present on NPP than TWGMTR, right?

[CenturyDeprived]

Since Mike's comment about Brian's voice was in reference to TWGMTR, perhaps he was upset that other band members didn't receive more leads on the album, which I think is a valid complaint.

Obviously Mike could have said it a different way, but that could be said for many things he's done over the last 50 years.

It's a bit odd that Al's voice is more present on NPP than TWGMTR, right?

I agree, it's a bit odd, now that you mention it. But I also think that Brian was re-acclimating to getting used to working with The Boys again, and maybe hadn't quite found the right comfort zone yet with navigating all the personalities. That's my guess. Also, Brian in his 70s has found a process that works for him, and it ain't easy to get him to write and finish songs anymore, by his own admission. I imagine that nobody (including Brian) wanted to rock the boat too terribly much or too soon regarding his process, so that's probably why parts of TWGMTR have lots of resemblance to a Brian solo record, including lots of Brain leads. And while there are a lot of Brian leads on the record, the same goes for Pet Sounds, and nobody's really complaining about that.

NPP has seen Brian working in the studio with Al for a good deal more time recently now than had been the case at the time immediately preceding TWGMTR. There's more trust and friendships probably have been more mended, and things probably fell together more naturally to give Al more of a presence. Perhaps also as more of a gesture of good faith, I don't know. I'm very glad Al is present more. Some people might say politics are at play in that, and maybe they are, but the flipside of that token is this:

I honestly think that if C50 had held together, and all parties involved let Brian be the boss without the demands that were clearly made by a certain someone, that the followup BB album to TWGMTR would have had a good chance of having more input from the other members, INCLUDING MIKE LOVE, both in terms of vocals, and in terms of some collaboration.  But these things would have to come naturally, without demands, with healthy communication, trust, and with a non-resentful understanding that Brian is the boss.  I don't think it's crazy to think that, and I think that Al's further presence on NPP is evidence of such.

[startBBtoday]

Since Mike's comment about Brian's voice was in reference to TWGMTR, perhaps he was upset that other band members didn't receive more leads on the album, which I think is a valid complaint.

Obviously Mike could have said it a different way, but that could be said for many things he's done over the last 50 years.

It's a bit odd that Al's voice is more present on NPP than TWGMTR, right?

I agree, it's a bit odd, now that you mention it. But I also think that Brian was re-acclimating to getting used to working with The Boys again, and maybe hadn't quite found the right comfort zone yet with navigating all the personalities. That's my guess. Also, Brian in his 70s has found a process that works for him, and it ain't easy to get him to write and finish songs anymore, by his own admission. I imagine that nobody (including Brian) wanted to rock the boat too terribly much or too soon regarding his process, so that's probably why parts of TWGMTR have lots of resemblance to a Brian solo record, including lots of Brain leads. There are a lot of Brian leads on the record, that's true - but then again, same for Pet Sounds, and nobody's really complaining about that.

NPP has seen Brian working in the studio with Al for a good deal more time recently now than had been the case at the time immediately preceding TWGMTR. There's more trust and friendships probably have been more mended, and things probably fell together more naturally to give Al more of a presence. Perhaps also as more of a gesture of good faith, I don't know. I'm very glad Al is present more. Some people might say politics are at play in that, and maybe they are, but the flipside of that token is this:

I honestly think that if C50 had held together, and all parties involved let Brian be the boss without the demands that were clearly made by some, that the followup BB album to TWGMTR would have had a good chance of having more input from the other members, INCLUDING MIKE LOVE, both in terms of vocals, and in terms of some collaboration.  But these things would have to come naturally, without demands, with healthy communication, trust, and with a non-resentful understanding that Brian is the boss.  I don't think it's crazy to think that, and I think that Al's further presence on NPP is evidence of such.

Agreed on all counts.

I started to assemble my favorite tracks from both TWGMTR and NPP, and it just really stood out to me how many leads Brian had on TWGMTR, and I think there are multiple factors in play. I agree that it probably took Brian time to get comfortable working with a band again, but I also think the album was rushed, and it's probably a slow process for guys in their 70s to sing perfectly, and there also were probably scheduling issues trying to get everyone in the studio.

This is a band that hasn't recorded a full album all together since the 80s, so even things like work ethic could have been a problem.

Brian has continued to record full albums, he'll take the time to get his vocals right, and he doesn't have to convey a melody to a different person, who probably won't wind up getting it correct anyway.

So, I definitely understand why Brian took so many more leads, but it is disappointing at the same time. Al still has a fantastic voice, Mike sounded good on the album, as did Bruce, and those are recorded voices we haven't heard since the 90s. Plus, Brian's voice isn't what it once was. It's certainly getting better, but I think it would have been beneficial to spread out the leads a little bit.

That's why I can understand why Mike feels the need to express his dissatisfaction with the album. He signed up for a Beach Boys album and got something that more closely resembles a Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas project with one Mike Love solo track and scattered Beach Boys voices and lyrics. Would the songs have been better if Mike was able to get Brian in a room to write songs? Eh, that doesn't really seem feasible anymore. Mike is thinking about Brian like it's 1964, and not 2012. Brian admits it takes him longer to write.

But I believe there could have been more common ground with TWGMTR, and it possibly could have led to another album.

Once again, does Mike need to say that Brian doesn't have the same range anymore? No, probably not. But it's true, and I can see his disappointment.

[guitarfool2002]

Maybe Mike is unhappy he sounds like a robot on the C50 live album?

With just under 200 buyers posting reviews on Amazon, the live album still has a 4.5 out of 5 average rating. It's like a disconnect between the overall opinions here versus among those buyers. I was surprised in some ways to see that.

[Nicko1234]

Maybe Mike is unhappy he sounds like a robot on the C50 live album?

With just under 200 buyers posting reviews on Amazon, the live album still has a 4.5 out of 5 average rating. It's like a disconnect between the overall opinions here versus among those buyers. I was surprised in some ways to see that.

I would say that most new albums get a very high score on Amazon. Ringo Starr`s new album has a 4.5 average, for example. People throw out 5 star reviews like confetti...

[stack-o-tracks]

I'd love to buy a 30 pack of Miller High Life, share them with Mike Love, and then spend the rest of the evening egging him on as he talks poop and makes disparaging remarks of all the things Mike Love would get drunk passionate about after about a dozen cans of the champagne of beers.


Fucka VIP "meet & greet", I'll give that guy money for a "drink & speak".


I'll be sure to let you all know how that goes.

[KDS]

I'd love to buy a 30 pack of Miller High Life, share them with Mike Love, and then spend the rest of the evening egging him on as he talks sh*t and makes disparaging remarks of all the things Mike Love would get drunk passionate about after about a dozen cans of the champagne of beers.


Fucka VIP "meet & greet", I'll give that guy money for a "drink & speak".


I'll be sure to let you all know how that goes.

Make sure while you and Mike are tossing back the brews to play The Smile Sessions, BW Presents Smile, NPP, TLOS, and Hold On To Your Ego in the background.