interesting article: "Mike Love states his case"

[Jim V.]

So there's been a lot said here, a lot of it valid. Anyways, I'd like to add some of my thoughts.

First off, I'd just like to address some of what Mike said. Like this one: "Now don't get me wrong, Joe flew occasionally...to Los Angeles to work on the album TWGMTR, and also as I understand it, I could be wrong, but the suites, per Joe, for TWGMTR and NPP is the result of their collaborations from many years ago."

Now while talking about the planning (or lack thereof) of a new Beach Boys album, he speaks of a "suite" on No Pier Pressure as if he's talked to Joe Thomas about it. So does that mean Mike has spoken to Joe Thomas recently? Otherwise, how would he know so much about material he apparently has no ties to? Could it be that this "suite" material was mentioned to him in regards to another Beach Boys album? An album, which he of course says he never heard anything about. Sure sounds odd.

And back to the fact that he brought up that this was material was the "result of their collaborations from many years ago." Now what is this supposed to mean? That Brian can't write new material and that he has to find old, unreleased stuff to put out "new" music? Because even if this is true, it sounds like the same thing this other guy is supposedly doing for HIS new album too. And that guy's name is Mike Love. And to me, there's nothing wrong with re-recording old unreleased material with a view to releasing something new. Shoot, even if it's previously released it's okay. If the artist in question feels that they wanna put a new spin on something that isn't exactly new that's alright.

There's also this one: "...initially, Brian wanted to do a rock album and covers of our favorite songs which I was stoked about!"

Now, unlike some other posters on here, I do think that Brian and Mike probably were on the same page wanting to do a covers album. From what I understand, Brian really does love doing covers, and that's probably been the case since like 1972 or so. We know he did a few with Spring, he did a bunch for 15 Big Ones, started the Keepin' The Summer Alive sessions that way, and we know he's recorded stuff like "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'" with Mark Linnett. Not to mention stuff like "I'm Into Something Good" and others. So yeah, I think if Brian does ever do that "rock 'n roll" album he's always been talking about, it would probably be made up of a large chunk of covers and probably a bit of new material. And I think left to their own devices, if Brian and Mike had their way, I wouldn't doubt that if they do record together again, it would probably be a lot of doo-wop covers and other things, and some new material.  So yeah, I really do believe that Brian and Mike have discussed at least that. It's something that interests both of them.

Now, about the "interview" or whatever this was....well, it left a lot to be desired. It seems that David Beard is trying to stir up sh*t in an area where there was really no unrest. I don't get it. I also think that instead of coming to the interview prepared to ask Mike why he seems to be contradicting things that he had said before, he just lapped up whatever Mike told him and basically did a nice little press release for Team Love. Also, what I find interesting is that ESQ has tried so hard to not rock the boat in Beach Boys land that it's kinda become the standard bearer for continuing the status quo, and defending why "things are better as they are now," rather than digging deeper and finding out why our favorite band can't get back together and do it again. Or wait, he actually does know, as he's alluded to before, but would rather not push the envelope so he can continue to be able to get those few quotes on how exciting the 50th anniversary of The Hot Doggers was or info about how Mike will release an album in TWO(?!?) years while at the same time, telling us basically nothing. While I appreciate some of the articles in ESQ and on the Examiner, there could be so much more interesting stuff revealed. Instead we get PR fluff. Blah.

[Kurosawa]

and there is quite a big difference between MAKING music and PERFORMING music. Mike doesn't really make music. he doesn't play an instrument. he doesn't arrange harmonies or write songs or melodies to speak of. what has he written in the last 20 years?? Pisces Brothers? there's really no comparison.

Well, considering my paragraph was about playing live, I assumed you (or anyone else) would get that. Okay, PERFORMING music.  
When folks on here are comparing Mike to Brian they're generally referring to playing live because Mike obviously hasn't released any albums at all. That's a given.

no it's not a given.
Brian has never been a particularly strong or comfortable performer, whereas Mike eats it up.

my original statement which you disagreed with was: Mike is motivated by wealth and fame, Brian is motivated by making music.
I never said anything about playing live. many fans think Brian would be happy never performing live again, but never sitting at the piano?

it's the opposite with Mike.

Why it's such a shame that Brian and Mike don't work together more is because they both have what the other lacks. BW is an artist, a producer, songwriter and musician that is in the very upper class of pop musicians, and of course as a live performer he is often quite lacking and inconsistent. ML is not as prolific on the writing side, although he has written a few gems, but as a performer he is as good as anyone in rock-Jagger, Springsteen, Daltrey and Townshend-ML is in their class as a live performer. And he is also a very consistent live performer. He's worn out his voice a tad, but only Al Jardine gets to sing like his 1966 self anyway-but Mike can make Brian's music accessible to the average person more than Brian himself can. They need each other.

[bossaroo]

Well, I guess I misread your statement because Mike doesn't put out albums so I assumed you were talking about playing live.

either way, my point remains the same. why are these guys in show biz?

for Mike, it's as much about being the frontman, the rock star... and all that entails.

Brian really couldn't care less about any of that it would seem. he is in show business for one reason only, his ability to make music. he enjoys a very comfortable lifestyle, but he's not out there chasing the spotlight or the concert revenues night after night like Mike is.

I think this is assuming a great deal about both Brian and Mike and oversimplifying them both as well.

"His (Brian's) ability to make music?" ....... So, Brian plays live shows simply because he can make music? ..... Kate Bush has the ability to make music yet has only toured exactly twice, decades apart ...... Brian either loves playing live in front of people or he's being put up to it ..... And if any part of Brian loves playing his music to a crowd, then he has a lot more in common with Mike than we give him credit for.

I think Brian enjoys performing on some level, and he really appreciates the love he receives from his audiences. but clearly Mike craves the spotlight and the attention in a way Brian never has.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, I guess I misread your statement because Mike doesn't put out albums so I assumed you were talking about playing live.

either way, my point remains the same. why are these guys in show biz?

for Mike, it's as much about being the frontman, the rock star... and all that entails.

Brian really couldn't care less about any of that it would seem. he is in show business for one reason only, his ability to make music. he enjoys a very comfortable lifestyle, but he's not out there chasing the spotlight or the concert revenues night after night like Mike is.

I think this is assuming a great deal about both Brian and Mike and oversimplifying them both as well.

"His (Brian's) ability to make music?" ....... So, Brian plays live shows simply because he can make music? ..... Kate Bush has the ability to make music yet has only toured exactly twice, decades apart ...... Brian either loves playing live in front of people or he's being put up to it ..... And if any part of Brian loves playing his music to a crowd, then he has a lot more in common with Mike than we give him credit for.

I think Brian enjoys performing on some level, and he really appreciates the love he receives from his audiences. but clearly Mike craves the spotlight and the attention in a way Brian never has.

That's fair ... Art/fame/wealth ..... we can argue till the cows come home, but rock n roll needs Brian Wilsons and Mike Loves in nearly equal measure.

[joshferrell]

This isn't a knock on Mike or anything but how many of these "Oldie" type albums does Mike want to do? he has already done quite a few of them, if you consider "15 big ones" (well most of it), a handful of cover tunes on "KTSA", "SIP" and a couple on "MIU" as well as the "Nascar" cd, and the two or three Mike and Dean albums, not to mention stuff still in the can like"On Broadway"  and some covers by "Celebration" and his solo albums, not to mention having half of "Still Cruisin" being filled with "Oldies" although not re-recorded..and we can't forget about the "Party" album which was MOSTLY cover songs..

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just curious...were the Disney and Gershwin albums art? I would argue they were oldies covers.

Art ? That's up to how you define art, but what they certainly weren't were straight covers: considerable thought went into how each would be re-imagined.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian really couldn't care less about any of that it would seem. he is in show business for one reason only, his ability to make music. he enjoys a very comfortable lifestyle, but he's not out there chasing the spotlight or the concert revenues night after night like Mike is.

Of course, as it's been pointed out many times, One reason Brian doesn't have to chase the spotlight/concert revenues is he gets a split form every show, whether he appears or not. 

Entirely true - whilst not what you, I or anyone else here (except maybe Cam) would consider a trifling sum, the cut Brian gets from BRI would barely pay for the dog food and childminders. That said, if he - or Alan - had to rely purely on their solo careers to pay the bills, their bank balances would look a lot like mine. The cash cow is the 1962-66 catalogue.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Just curious...were the Disney and Gershwin albums art? I would argue they were oldies covers.

Art ? That's up to how you define art, but what they certainly weren't were straight covers: considerable thought went into how each would be re-imagined.

Very, very true.

[Micha]

It is crazy with how many excuses Mike continues to bring up for the ending of the C50. All this stuff he keeps making up on the go is really uncovering the the real reason for why the reunion didn't work:
Mike Love

You should be a bit more thankful to Mike that he enabled you to go to your religious service with your personal god Brian without having to see and hear your devil on the same stage or music recording.

Seriously, do you guys feel like rambling on?

They do, it is the light of their lives.

Pinder, you can stop arguing. It is of zero use. They don't want a fair and balanced view. They need a villain, they have found him. As one not so narrow minded poster (there are some on this board and even in this thread) wrote about Brian and Mike: Both are right, both are wrong.

[Wild-Honey]

After reading the article and then reading the posts on this thread, I'm beginning to think Mike isn't the villain in all of this.  What I get out of it (and a few other scenarios as well) is that Melinda is a pain in the ass and no-one wants to work with her 

Give Mike a break FFS, he hasn't done anything that bad. I believe he really cares for Brian and Brian for him. 

[18thofMay]

After reading the article and then reading the posts on this thread, I'm beginning to think Mike isn't the villain in all of this.  What I get out of it (and a few other scenarios as well) is that Melinda is a pain in the ass and no-one wants to work with her 

Give Mike a break FFS, he hasn't done anything that bad. I believe he really cares for Brian and Brian for him. 

WOW

[Cam Mott]

Brian really couldn't care less about any of that it would seem. he is in show business for one reason only, his ability to make music. he enjoys a very comfortable lifestyle, but he's not out there chasing the spotlight or the concert revenues night after night like Mike is.

Of course, as it's been pointed out many times, One reason Brian doesn't have to chase the spotlight/concert revenues is he gets a split form every show, whether he appears or not. 

Entirely true - whilst not what you, I or anyone else here (except maybe Cam) would consider a trifling sum, the cut Brian gets from BRI would barely pay for the dog food and childminders. That said, if he - or Alan - had to rely purely on their solo careers to pay the bills, their bank balances would look a lot like mine. The cash cow is the 1962-66 catalogue.

Yes, a pittance by my standards. It barely comes up to my annual budget for using thousand dollar bills as toilet paper and kleenex.

[Cam Mott]

Talk by promoters and labels and unilateral predictions of future albums isn't "discussion in the group". In 2012, no mention of discussion in the group just talk by someone, nothing set in stone, group plans are in the future after C50. In 2015, nothing was ever in writing or concrete so no plans.  It still seems to me they were/are all open to plans but those talking to the group apparently never present anything in writing and there is no discussion in the group of plans. Anyway, like somebody said earlier the whole thing screams of no discussion within the group.

Please get your head out of the sand

After you, old pal.

[Dancing Bear]

Why do I think that even if Mike apologized in public for everything atrocious he's ever done to Cousin Brian - like some fans believe that he should - then the haters would say "I don't know, did he really mean it?"...

[SinisterSmile]

Before I got into The Beach Boys, I used to watch Spanish soap operas.

I can confidently say that the BB's fill that drama void I always wanted in my life 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Why do I think that even if Mike apologized in public for everything atrocious he's ever done to Cousin Brian - like some fans believe that he should - then the haters would say "I don't know, did he really mean it?"...

Because you're right ?

[Amy B.]

They should change their name to the Beach Teenage Girls

No, I think BOYS is about right.

[Cam Mott]

They should change their name to the Beach Teenage Girls

No, I think BOYS is about right.

Burn.

[Micha]

Burn? Burn what?

[Wild-Honey]

Burn? Burn what?

Hehe Micha      Definition:

An exclamatory response, generally used by a third party after someone has just received an insult.   

[HeyJude]

Why do I think that even if Mike apologized in public for everything atrocious he's ever done to Cousin Brian - like some fans believe that he should - then the haters would say "I don't know, did he really mean it?"...

Meh, I think even just a few cases of being earnest and humble and admitting some mistakes and faults would go a long way. Now, "we should have put out a greatest hits package instead of a new album that year" or something like that does not count as admitting a mistake. I mean something more like admitting a personal fault.

There was a thread awhile back where a few folks tried to think of a case of Mike admitting a fault, a personal specific fault, and one that isn't anything like "my problem is I *care* too much!" or some sort of self-deprecating "I'm an old guy" joke for the live shows, and I don't think anyone could come up with much of anything.

To me, never admitting a fault and constantly being defensive and evasive is a big warning sign. So, as I said, even a few cases of some self-refelection that doesn't result in "the lyrics I wrote were awesome for Brian's music" would be refreshing and would go a LONG way I think. Just like the simple act of *doing* the C50 project went a LOOOONG way toward making a lot of crusty, cranky fans forget about the past Mike B.S.

[HeyJude]

These are actual Mike Love quotes that went on to run -- audio and transcript -- nationwide via my syndicated radio feed during C50.

I don't know how someone could interview Mike and not follow up with him asking him why he said the following to another journalist, if according to him now, none of it supposedly happened.

"There's talk of another album, yeah. Y'know, the record company's completely stoked about how well this whole project has gone. There's the Grammys coming up next year and there's talk of us going back and doing a return to the Grammys and there's talk of doin' a new album together. So, we'll just have to see what happens in the future. There's nothin' definitely in stone, but there's a lot of ideas bein' floated around -- and there's been some very successful concerts. Y'know, 17-and-a-half thousand people at the Hollywood Bowl sold out and there's interest from promoters, obviously, 'cause that's how they make money."

and. . .

"After this year completing the 50th anniversary reunion, we'll entertain doing some more studio work and see what we'll come up with and then we'll look at what to do in the future."

Thank you, sir.

Seriously, I've read a million interviews where it's frustrating that pertinent follow-up questions were seemingly not asked. But this new one just seemed extra odd. I mean, you've clearly got Mike Love's freaking e-mail address and you didn't think to ask about the times in 2012 where Mike specifically mentioned discussing another album?

[HeyJude]

Talk by promoters and labels and unilateral predictions of future albums isn't "discussion in the group". In 2012, no mention of discussion in the group just talk by someone, nothing set in stone, group plans are in the future after C50. In 2015, nothing was ever in writing or concrete so no plans.  It still seems to me they were/are all open to plans but those talking to the group apparently never present anything in writing and there is no discussion in the group of plans. Anyway, like somebody said earlier the whole thing screams of no discussion within the group.

Wait... "Talk" and "predictions" don't amount to even mere "discussion" to you? C'mon.

As I've said, even if one is inclined to be extra sympathetic towards Mike, you have to admit this new interview is a disaster for the interviewer and interviewee.

[HeyJude]

I don't blame Mike -- but I do fault shoddy, amateur writing/reporting for tabloid purposes.

If your deal is covering The Beach Boys and what they do and say -- especially on a topic as devisive, current, and fascinating as the 50th -- know your sh *t. Know who said what and when. I do. A lot of people here do, too. I think that the interviewer didn't know of Mike's past comments, and even if he had would've been far too skittish to call him on them. ESQ should've been all over why C50 fell apart, it should've ALL BEEN THERE in those pages. And it wasn't because the comps, free CD's, and promo pix MIGHT'VE dried up. To run this piece now, after pulling such a huge punch regarding the reunion issue is insulting.

There's a lot of really good things about ESQ and God knows, I'd rather have it around than not -- but this is a KEY example why it'll always remain a fanzine and never a true publication of record. Having it linked to such an amateur operation as Examiner.com isn't doing it any favors either.

Yes, the more I read this thing, the more it seemed it was the interviewer/author that might be the issue. I don’t think Mike came off well in his comments either, but the interview doesn’t make clear at all how many questions were asked, which questions were asked, etc.

I came away from the interview thinking, “Did David Beard just make relations between Mike and Brian worse somehow?”

I’m not convinced Mike necessarily cared so much about this issue before it was raised to him.

To not ask follow-up questions that any fan with mid-level knowledge would be able to ask, *especially* when the topic is so sensitive and controversial (and, in this case, is being stirred up where there didn’t seem to be any public animosity between Brian and Mike on the issue), is disappointing and frustrating.

[drbeachboy]

Mike is just as good at what he does as what Brian does

perhaps but there's not a lot of genius in pointing, miming lyrics, and color coordinating. or regurgitating lyrical themes. or continuously playing the same 30 or so songs you recorded in your 20s for the last 3 or 4 decades.

Brian plays those same 30 songs too. Brian points, as well. Brian has solo music he can perform, but does he? No, he does not. He relies on the same set of songs that Mike does. Those 30 songs are the cash cows for both performers.

funny, the last time I saw Brian (and Al and Dave) they played quite a mix of hits and obscure tunes, as well as some of Brian's solo numbers. and Summer's Gone.

and didn't Brian just film a performance of nothing BUT new material?

You nit-pick over one show? Hard to have an educated conversation about this if this is how you go about proving your point. Anyone who has been to both shows know that both Brian & Mike play the hits and a few deep cuts. Brian may play a few more, but all in all it is mostly a meat & potatoes show, just like Mike's. Brian has a helluva lot more to choose from with his solo material, but he chooses not to play them, which in my eye makes him a more meat & potatoes man than Mike.