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Author Topic: General public reception to Surf's Up  (Read 24156 times)
the captain
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« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2014, 10:22:05 AM »

[H]istory in that one case alone has written a version which doesn't tell the full story of that album.

Good post. But I'd argue that history in every single case has written a version which doesn't tell the full story of any album (or book, person, event, etc.).

It's for that reason that one of my favorite ways to talk about music is to ask for--or share--personal memories about music, and specifically how it fit into or defined people's lives at the time: time it was released, time it was discovered, or whatever. Those personal experiences are always incomplete, obviously--nobody had the all-encompassing, defining experience of an album--but they can be illuminating as to nooks and crannies of the art. And I'm not ashamed to say they can help influence my approach to the music. Other times I don't relate to the story (or the music) and my opinion might remain unchanged.

But that shared experience--maybe meaning jointly, similarly experienced, maybe meaning the sharing of one's own experience--is for me a big part of what art is for. Nobody owns the narrative. Not the artist, not the critic, not me, and not you.
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« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2014, 10:35:28 AM »

With Wild Honey, I rarely see any citation of that album or the singles spun off the album as anything but a suggestion that it was a "disappointment". Whether it was laziness, or people who simply don't know how music was charted in 1967, or simply a narrative which wants to be told over what actually happened...whatever the case, the singles from that album did well regionally, in some markets more heavy into R&B the title song actually went top-5. Do we hear that told often? How about the fact that many working cover/GB bands throughout 1968 were featuring Darlin in their nightly sets, as horn-driven R&B sounds were the flavor of the day? Count among those working bands one called Chicago Transit Authority who were covering Darlin. And consider how a Beach Boys single...those sunny, fun conservative guys from Hawthorne, was doing top-5 in cities like Washington DC and Philly, and that single was Wild Honey. Again, part of the story which gets swept aside in favor of opening a Billboard singles reference book and judging the whole of the story based on a number in those pages.

Were some BB's singles and albums complete stiffs from 67-72? Naturally, of course they were, no argument. Yet some were more successful regionally and among fans than the charts would suggest, and sales numbers as well. How about the song "Surf's Up" in the Boston market? Perhaps the charts wouldn't suggest what fans in the area thought of the song. Maybe 'BCN or whatever was the FM station of note was spinning it more than the charts would suggest...just one example.

I also think the image of the Beach Boys can be used as a pretty cheap shot, especially in context of 67-71. To me it is as ridiculous and as unwelcome as someone suggesting Arthur Lee should have played more blues music, or Canned Heat shouldn't have played as much blues music...in both cases, it totally ignores the backgrounds and the true nature and history of those artists, and instead does what nearly every so-called "rock journalist" seeks to avoid, and that is stereotyping artists or genres based on expectations and perceptions rather than weighing the music itself.
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« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2014, 11:35:27 AM »

Agreed this is a far bigger discussion than just a few lines. What I do see and agree with is this measuring-stick mentality regarding what is liked versus what is considered "good", or whatever the case. Ultimately a lot of it if not all of it comes down to personal opinion, as it should. Those debates have no winner. But I do see a level of hypocrisy, mixed in with selfishness, mixed in with a bit of importance as well...quite a blend. But with publications like Rolling Stone, some of what they have printed especially regarding the Beach Boys has been important to the history and to the dialogue. Their 5-star review of the box set in 1993 was to me a watershed moment in the public perception of the band which simply *had* to happen after a series of embarrassing mistakes and miscalculations which almost squandered 30 years or more of building up a cache among fans based on the strength of the music. Yet among the demographic, especially the late 60's/early 70's, there was and is an element of self-importance as to who gets the nod of approval versus who gets shunned.

Just ask people in the music business who have been in the business for decades what they think of Jann Wenner. That in itself speaks volumes about where much of the readership falls. So much has snowballed from there...and a lot of it can come back to whether Wenner and his employees thought an act was "worthy" or not, and how the history was written. Let me throw out just a few names: Chicago, Toto, The Monkees...need any more examples? Is their music any less "important" to listeners and fans as the New York Dolls or Elvis Costello? Or even "The Boss", who hasn't done much of note for the better part of four decades, yet can do no wrong in the eyes of some.

So "Surf's Up" or any 1970's BB's product didn't quite measure up for some critics...what were they promoting in their pages instead? Some of the bands being hyped at the time of Surf's Up have simply disappeared without a trace. Some of the styles of music from prog-rock to the idea of trying to push a 30 minute live blues jam into "new" artistic territory is all but laughable today, save for a few truly innovative musicians like Duane Allman. Some of the music that was following Lennon's "Instant Karma" hype of singles having the immediacy of a newspaper delivering the headlines as they were happening has survived simply because the *music* above everything else was good and made listeners want to hear it repeatedly. While others who went more for the message over the music, whether it be Student Demonstration Time or a song by Coven or whoever...no one plays them anymore. For good reason - they're simply not good songs. Yet "Ohio" and "Instant Karma" or even "For What It's Worth" were plain and simple catchy songs that sound great on the radio - FM or AM. No substitute for that, no matter how much Rolling Stone in 1971 wanted to push something that had no business being hyped.

It's a difficult thing to weigh. Ultimately I think it's up to the individual. If something said or not said by a mag like Rolling Stone matters to a person reading, then it matters to that person. I think taking the opinions on any given album as expressed in a magazine has to be weighed individually. Like the 5-star review in 1993 for the box set may have transcended its place as a simple review of a new release, similarly any review from 1970 that over-hypes whatever flavor-of-the-month band was in vogue back then has to be taken in the context where it appeared, and judged accordingly.

To have in the back of anyone's mind "I wonder what *fill in the blank* thinks of this music I'm liking so much" is such a disservice, it's beyond ridiculous to weigh that into judging an album or song or any work. And those who give that kind of weight to Rolling Stone or any other publication's reviews should consider beyond what someone else might think and dig deeper to find what the real fans and listeners think.

I believe Surf's Up did better than history would suggest. However I also think having researched it pretty deep that Wild Honey going back to 1967 was a much stronger and much better received project overall than the impression you'd get by reading the Billboard charts and assuming it was a stiff. It was not. Not suggesting it was "Sgt Pepper", but history in that one case alone has written a version which doesn't tell the full story of that album.

Thanks for your usual thoughtful commentary, Guitar Fool.  I guess we could speculate forever about how much the reception to "Surf's Up" matters and how much it's changed.  I don't think we'll find many people covering the song itself though, for the simple reason that it's such a challenge to sing.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 11:50:19 AM by Debbie Keil-Leavitt » Logged
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« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2014, 11:46:58 AM »

[H]istory in that one case alone has written a version which doesn't tell the full story of that album.

Good post. But I'd argue that history in every single case has written a version which doesn't tell the full story of any album (or book, person, event, etc.).

It's for that reason that one of my favorite ways to talk about music is to ask for--or share--personal memories about music, and specifically how it fit into or defined people's lives at the time: time it was released, time it was discovered, or whatever. Those personal experiences are always incomplete, obviously--nobody had the all-encompassing, defining experience of an album--but they can be illuminating as to nooks and crannies of the art. And I'm not ashamed to say they can help influence my approach to the music. Other times I don't relate to the story (or the music) and my opinion might remain unchanged.

But that shared experience--maybe meaning jointly, similarly experienced, maybe meaning the sharing of one's own experience--is for me a big part of what art is for. Nobody owns the narrative. Not the artist, not the critic, not me, and not you.

Agreed, Captain.

I rarely post on this board, but I am an avid reader who quickly scans over the BS posts and the fanboy flamers for quality information or revelatory anecdotes. In this case, I was specifically responding to the request of Blossom World's original post and searching my mind (and the web a bit) to try and offer the flavor of what it felt like at the time to encounter this music - yes, from my own context. My personal history, and the culture at large as I knew it as a New York suburban 17 year old in 1971. Rolling Stone, as far as I knew, was the only game in town for hip rock and roll news besides FM radio (yes, there was Creem and Crawdaddy, but it took me longer to find those - Lester Bangs, Paul Williams, etc.). Rolling Stone was tremendously important in the paper fold days, before it became the slick GQ mag it is now. Random Notes was where you went first for any gossip, news, coming attractions. Then the (mostly excellent) interviews (who could forget the shock of the Lennon), then the hit or miss album reviews (where one could find Greil Marcus' famous Dylan Self-Portrait opener "What is this sh*t?") When Jim Miller wrote of Sunflower that the Beach Boys were "plastic madmen, rock geniuses", I understood what he meant immediately, and that kind of pull quote was something that stuck with me all these years...Goodbye Surfing (Saturday Evening Post!) and California Saga were incredibly important to those of us who were amazed to see the words "Brian Wilson" in a serious essay about his life and art at all. There was so little to read in order to possibly glean the inside story.

I'm also interested in anecdotal histories and the historical trajectories of the arts, especially rock music and film (I'm teaching the history of rock and film next semester, in fact). And not just of my own time. Not so much interested in most of what I find on the web, hierarchical lists of this or that...and (mostly) young men and their opinion flame wars. Yes, I'll be showing High Fidelity...
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 11:52:04 AM by PS » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2014, 04:32:05 PM »

I was a new entry to the dorm that Fall. I attracted an audience with that album. Several of my new found friends became best friends and one even best man at my wedding. What else can I say? Surf's Up had a profound effect on my life and those around me. 
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« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2014, 05:35:21 PM »

''Surf's Up' was a very, VERY fine album.  Certainly it was a most worthy Beach Boys effort.   T'was my first year in college.  It was what it was in part because so many Brian Wilson songs had to be included on any release as per the contractual agreement.  And so...it was exactly what it was, thanks in part to the vault.  I would suggest that both 'Sunflower' and 'Holland' outdistance 'Surf's Up' by a lot/by a bit respectively...which should not diminish 'Surf's Up' but rather elevate the other 2 albums.  I appreciate it marginally better than I do 'Carl and the Passions'...and by eons over everything which followed the subsequent LIVE album which showcased exactly why the Beach Boys were one of the BEST touring groups of the 1970s.

Not until 'TWGMTR' did the group release ANYTHING that was any better than an excuse.

-----------------------------------

By the way...in the context of Beach Boys' releases....'Smile' is a 1967 album.  Not any album of the 21st century.  [just so we're clear here.]
-------------------------------------
By the way 2.  Bruce Johnstons' absense didn't do much to add to or subtract from the group during this time-frame although 'Disney Girls' was OK.  Then again...so was 'Sail on Sailor'.  So really???  What does Bruce do other than make the wearing of shorts an extremely nasty thing to do on stage?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 05:42:24 PM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2014, 07:58:36 AM »

He adjusts a wicked mike stand-did you ever watch him do that? Holy crap, man, it's incredible to watch. He must have taken a course in it and gone to the head of his class. But beware...it goes beyond that. Yeah, it really does. When the man puts his hands together to make a clapping sound, you're seeing it done as no one can even come close to doing. Absolutely flawless. Genius. All this talent going on and a Hawaiian shirt to top it all off. It's the whole shebang! Shocked
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« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2014, 08:46:33 AM »

 LOL
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« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »

Just watched "Almost Famous" I was ecstatic to hear Feel Flows in the background of a scene.  Pet Sounds vinyl also made an appearance at the beginning of the movie.
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« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2014, 12:00:54 PM »

Just watched "Almost Famous" I was ecstatic to hear Feel Flows in the background of a scene.  Pet Sounds vinyl also made an appearance at the beginning of the movie.

Feel Flows also plays over the end credits montage.  The first time I heard that song was from the Almost Famous soundtrack actually.  Realizing it was a Beach Boys song, and one without Brian Wilson's involvement too just blew me away at the time.  I've read that Cameron Crowe's wife at the time, Nancy Wilson from Heart who helped score the movie is a big fan of that song.
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« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2014, 12:09:39 PM »

I can't listen to "Feel Flows" without thinking of Carl Wilson as a turtle, arms outstretched, menstruating.
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« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2014, 12:36:43 PM »

I can't listen to "Feel Flows" without thinking of Carl Wilson as a turtle, arms outstretched, menstruating.

We all have our problems.
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« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2014, 03:48:40 PM »

Bruce's voice on That's Why God Made The Radio made the experience substantially more enjoyable. I know he was occasionally spotty on the tour, but on that album, after Al, his voice sounds the closest to his vintage voice and really takes me back, man.

I know he's kind of a nitwit, but I'm glad he's still in the picture even if he's contributed like two songs to the Beach Boys catalog since I was born.
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« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2014, 06:33:50 PM »

I love Bruce, even if it's only because he wrote Disney Girls.
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« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2014, 07:45:37 PM »

Bruce has a nice voice but I'd take Blondie Chaplin over him any day.
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« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2014, 09:26:51 PM »

I think surfs up was just marketed better. Its great but doesnt surpass sunflower..and catp/so tough is one of the least substantial albums in BB history. Every BB album from surfer girl thru holland was/is great, its undeniable that the BBs were/are the only rock band in history with that many great,essential albums. Think about it, pretty much every other group/artist had an album or three worth owning but the BBs body of work cant jus be sumed up with pet sounds and endless summer;; all summer long, today, summer days, surfer girl, wild honey, sunflower and smiley ALL must-owns by every true pundit/rocker.
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« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2014, 06:11:59 AM »

True 'kook'.  The live album should be included...TWGMTR too.  And then there are loads of select songs from almost every subsequent album which were and are GREAT.  It's not like they NEVER ever did anything of value again after the last note of Holland [or the litttle bonus 45rpm fairytale] faded away.

As for Bruce...I didn't mean to carve him a new one.  His 'sell' of Pet Sounds in Merry Olde was important.  He'll be celebrating 50 years [mostly 'on'] with the Beach Boys this coming year.  Sunflower is an outstanding lp and I very much enjoy Deirdre and Tears in the Morning in addition to Walt's gals...and he did write 'the songs' as well.  I also dig Endless Harmony.  It's just that the group always seemed to under-utilize him.  They pissed him off enough times that he either left or contemplated leaving his perch.

I'm just kinda wondering...what does he really do now?  Just add a vocal part to the mix?  He did that symphonic thing years ago that was...well...kinda Montovani-ish..ie: boring.  But what does he do?  It's like he's been relegated to the role of glorified side-man.  Seems kind of unfair...or wasteful...or something???

------------------------------------------------------

Given that I Write the Songs was as gigantic as it was...Did the Beach Boys ever perform it or record it?  Heck...they used to stop down mid-performance so that Dennis could wander up front and centre and sing You Are So Beautiful.  So why not?  I certainly NEVER saw [or heard] them do it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 06:32:28 AM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2014, 06:42:29 AM »

True, theres plenty good cuts after the mid 70s, just not as consistent. And thats a good query bou bruce, if they cut I write the songs or not...
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« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2014, 08:42:15 AM »

Geez...my memory is pitiful.  It just occured to me...and I own a copy...that Carl and somebody else...probably Bruce???... joined David Cassidy for his GREAT version of I Write the Songs on his The Higher They Climb album.

Doi oip dee doip. Roll Eyes

Now that I think of it...pretty sure Bruce produced this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgXE1JTOFfs
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 08:45:58 AM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2014, 09:58:00 AM »

True 'kook'.  The live album should be included...TWGMTR too.  And then there are loads of select songs from almost every subsequent album which were and are GREAT.  It's not like they NEVER ever did anything of value again after the last note of Holland [or the litttle bonus 45rpm fairytale] faded away.

As for Bruce...I didn't mean to carve him a new one.  His 'sell' of Pet Sounds in Merry Olde was important.  He'll be celebrating 50 years [mostly 'on'] with the Beach Boys this coming year.  Sunflower is an outstanding lp and I very much enjoy Deirdre and Tears in the Morning in addition to Walt's gals...and he did write 'the songs' as well.  I also dig Endless Harmony.  It's just that the group always seemed to under-utilize him.  They pissed him off enough times that he either left or contemplated leaving his perch.

I'm just kinda wondering...what does he really do now?  Just add a vocal part to the mix?  He did that symphonic thing years ago that was...well...kinda Montovani-ish..ie: boring.  But what does he do?  It's like he's been relegated to the role of glorified side-man.  Seems kind of unfair...or wasteful...or something???

------------------------------------------------------

Given that I Write the Songs was as gigantic as it was...Did the Beach Boys ever perform it or record it?  Heck...they used to stop down mid-performance so that Dennis could wander up front and centre and sing You Are So Beautiful.  So why not?  I certainly NEVER saw [or heard] them do it.

Didn't Bruce perform it at Knebworth?
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« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2014, 10:00:52 AM »

I have that dvd...I'll have to check it out.  My memory is poor.  Too many games w/o a helmet?  No.  Too many trips w/o a suitcase?  Maybe.
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"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2014, 02:40:46 PM »

True 'kook'.  The live album should be included...TWGMTR too.  And then there are loads of select songs from almost every subsequent album which were and are GREAT.  It's not like they NEVER ever did anything of value again after the last note of Holland [or the litttle bonus 45rpm fairytale] faded away.

As for Bruce...I didn't mean to carve him a new one.  His 'sell' of Pet Sounds in Merry Olde was important.  He'll be celebrating 50 years [mostly 'on'] with the Beach Boys this coming year.  Sunflower is an outstanding lp and I very much enjoy Deirdre and Tears in the Morning in addition to Walt's gals...and he did write 'the songs' as well.  I also dig Endless Harmony.  It's just that the group always seemed to under-utilize him.  They pissed him off enough times that he either left or contemplated leaving his perch.

I'm just kinda wondering...what does he really do now?  Just add a vocal part to the mix?  He did that symphonic thing years ago that was...well...kinda Montovani-ish..ie: boring.  But what does he do?  It's like he's been relegated to the role of glorified side-man.  Seems kind of unfair...or wasteful...or something???

------------------------------------------------------

Given that I Write the Songs was as gigantic as it was...Did the Beach Boys ever perform it or record it?  Heck...they used to stop down mid-performance so that Dennis could wander up front and centre and sing You Are So Beautiful.  So why not?  I certainly NEVER saw [or heard] them do it.

Didn't Bruce perform it at Knebworth?

IIRC he performed it but its not on the DVD/CD.
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« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2014, 02:13:20 AM »

'Tis on the boot...
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« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2014, 12:01:06 PM »

True 'kook'.  The live album should be included...TWGMTR too.  And then there are loads of select songs from almost every subsequent album which were and are GREAT.  It's not like they NEVER ever did anything of value again after the last note of Holland [or the litttle bonus 45rpm fairytale] faded away.

As for Bruce...I didn't mean to carve him a new one.  His 'sell' of Pet Sounds in Merry Olde was important.  He'll be celebrating 50 years [mostly 'on'] with the Beach Boys this coming year.  Sunflower is an outstanding lp and I very much enjoy Deirdre and Tears in the Morning in addition to Walt's gals...and he did write 'the songs' as well.  I also dig Endless Harmony.  It's just that the group always seemed to under-utilize him.  They pissed him off enough times that he either left or contemplated leaving his perch.

I'm just kinda wondering...what does he really do now?  Just add a vocal part to the mix?  He did that symphonic thing years ago that was...well...kinda Montovani-ish..ie: boring.  But what does he do?  It's like he's been relegated to the role of glorified side-man.  Seems kind of unfair...or wasteful...or something???

------------------------------------------------------

Given that I Write the Songs was as gigantic as it was...Did the Beach Boys ever perform it or record it?  Heck...they used to stop down mid-performance so that Dennis could wander up front and centre and sing You Are So Beautiful.  So why not?  I certainly NEVER saw [or heard] them do it.

Didn't Bruce perform it at Knebworth?

IIRC he performed it but its not on the DVD/CD.

Jeezus, are there any songs they DIDN'T perform at that show? "Ten Little Indians"? "My Solution"? "SOUL SURFIN'"?
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« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2014, 01:04:07 PM »

Geez...my memory is pitiful.  It just occured to me...and I own a copy...that Carl and somebody else...probably Bruce???... joined David Cassidy for his GREAT version of I Write the Songs on his The Higher They Climb album.

Doi oip dee doip. Roll Eyes

Now that I think of it...pretty sure Bruce produced this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgXE1JTOFfs

Yeah, he did - Bruce has also said the David Cassidy version is his preferred version, or similar words to that effect.
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