Does the on stage talent level of the BB's piss you off?

[Dancing Bear]

Disregarding drummers like Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio and Neil Peart just because they are 'technical' sounds as wrong to me as claming that the Beach Boys played retarded surf music.

There's room for everybody, even Dennis Wilson.

[Rocker]

Disregarding drummers like Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio and Neil Peart just because they are 'technical' sounds as wrong to me as claming that the Beach Boys played retarded surf music.

There's room for everybody, even Dennis Wilson.

Yep, that's right.
Dennis may not have been a good technical drummer, but he was a great rock'n'roll-drummer.
Some Jazz-drummer whose technical very good couldn't have played rock'n'roll the right way.
I think it's just a matter of taste what you like more.

[jazzfascist]

Disregarding drummers like Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio and Neil Peart just because they are 'technical' sounds as wrong to me as claming that the Beach Boys played retarded surf music.

There's room for everybody, even Dennis Wilson.

Yep, that's right.
Dennis may not have been a good technical drummer, but he was a great rock'n'roll-drummer.
Some Jazz-drummer whose technical very good couldn't have played rock'n'roll the right way.
I think it's just a matter of taste what you like more.

I don't know, I think a good rock drummer, also has to have a sense of swing like jazzdrummers, so they can play more laid back when that is required to push a band, in fact the more rhytmical nuances they master, the better.

Søren

[Jon Stebbins]

I'm not pissed off at 1:05 into this when Dennis throws his busted stick in the air.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlbFGHCJoTY&search=Beach%20Boys

[Ron]

I just watched that video, looks like straight-up heart and soul rock and roll to me, most noticeably by Denny. 

[Jon Stebbins]

Does the drummer in this clip swing? I think so.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wMGiZLAdF24&search=Beach%20Boys%20Wouldn%27t

[Jon Stebbins]

This drummer sounds pretty solid to me. Nice kick eh Josh??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqfdIdE5PUg&search=Beach%20Boys%20dance

[Wirestone]

I always think that the Beach Boys were two (or four) different bands.

1.) The Brian-led studio ensemble. With the BBs only or with backing musician, the main instrument was the studio itself. No one ever sounded like this live. The group that has come the closest is Brian's, although the leader's instrument is understandably compromised a bit by the ravages of time/coke/cigs/cheeseburgers.

2.) The post-Brian studio group.  Again, the studio is used as the instrument, but with less commercial success. As the years go by, some of the focus wanes, too. Eventually, the band is swallowed up into 80-ish cheese.

3.) The early, BBs-only band. This group has raw edges but an undeniable energy and charm. This is the only group that could really be called a rock group in three-guys-with-guitars-one-guy-on-drums sense.

4.) The BBs extravaganza. That is, BBs with lots of backup guys. Starting in the 70s and continuing through the 90s. This is the BBs group with the greatest polish, if intermittent artistic success. In the 70s, of course, they were awesome. Even in the 90s, when I saw them (97, on Carl's last tour) they were in strikingly good voice. The focus shifted from art to entertainment, perhaps, but the latter was still top-notch.

These can be divided up further, but each has a distinctive identity and leader (1 and 3: Brian, 2: Carl and 4: Carl and Mike). A book could be written about each.

[windchimes]

Well, I never said that being simple was bad. Nor did I say that dennis couldnt go ape sh*t on a drum set. But who cant? Its just when I here the drummers in many other bands I see TALENT. Not just hardcore passion for the genre. I mean real talent. It would just have been nice to hear something new from Dennis. I will ask this question again. Does anybody know the practice habits of the boys back then? Did Dennis ever practice by himself?

Dennis' drumming aside, that doesnt explain the false starts and inconsistent good quality performance.

[Cam Mott]

I'm thinking practice was rare [or daily on-the-job] when you are on the road for 200 dates a year.

[Jeff Mason]

Have you ever listened to When IGrow Up?  That's inventive and unusual (I noticed it way back on first listen) -- and it's all Denny.

[Ron]

So it is with self-taught musicians.  Denny played the way he did because that's the way he naturally did it.  Brian plays piano with a heavy left hand because that's the way he naturally taught himself to do it. 

I don't go to a live concert to see virtuoso performances, you can buy a studio cd for that, in my opinion (and everybody has one, of course) live concerts are most definately all about the feel and the passion for the music.  In those early performances, there were 2000 girls screaming their heads off in front of the stage.  Nobody cared if the song started or ended wrong, it was all about how rockin it sounded, which they pulled off quite competantly.

I guess you could complain about the later band, but I thought they sounded pretty impressive in the 70's stuff I've heard from them on stage. 

[Emdeeh]

Dennis did. He was punk rock long before it exisited. Rock and roll is supposed to be joyous, dangerous, passionate...Dennis had all of that.

I find it fascinating that the early Beach Boys are godfathers of sorts for American punk rock, through their influence on the Ramones. If you aren't familiar with the BBs from those days, it seems rather surprising. Not for me, tho -- I was one of those young gals in the audience digging Denny's every move onstage.

[GETTINHUNGRY]

I am new to this board, and I find this question very fascinating.  I guess I would say that the Beach Boy's live playing does not piss me off, but it is very disappointing.  I have heard a great deal of live beach boys music.  Some of it is great, but most of it is just okay.  By 1967, Mike Love spent most of the concert time making fun of all the songs that made them famous - songs written by Brian wilson.  Some thanks that is. I suppose that is a different debate.  The Beach Boys in my humble opinion, were overall a mediocre live act. has anyone ever listened to the Hawaii concert?  They can't even play "surfin" flawlessly. There are live performances of " I get around" where carl does not even play the guitar solo.  There are others where the singers frequently forget lyrics, and there are a good number of false starts.  Sure this is going to happen to everyone now and then, but it seemed to plague the Beach Boys.  As far as Dennis goes, windchimes is right on.  Dennis is an adequate drummer, but not great by any means.  If he played so well on the "When I grow up" recording, why did he not play it the same way live?  Take a look at the read steady go performance.  He plays "i get around" and "When I grow up" with the same exact beat.  Part of the Beach Boy's problem in the late sixties was that there recordings were so elaborate, and they were hard to duplicate on stage.  that is why their concerts in the seventies were so much better  - there were were more than five musicians on the stage.I love Brian Wilson and i love the beach boys, but cut windchimes some slack.......he has a valid point.

[live snob]

Why couldn't they sing their own songs as well as they sung the four freshman ones?

I think the reason for this is that since they weren't as good instrumentally as vocally, their instrumental playing seemed to be too sloppy to competently perform their vocals.  Therefore their instruments drowned out their vocals.

[Jon Stebbins]

I am new to this board, and I find this question very fascinating.  I guess I would say that the Beach Boy's live playing does not piss me off, but it is very disappointing.  I have heard a great deal of live beach boys music.  Some of it is great, but most of it is just okay.  By 1967, Mike Love spent most of the concert time making fun of all the songs that made them famous - songs written by Brian wilson.  Some thanks that is. I suppose that is a different debate.  The Beach Boys in my humble opinion, were overall a mediocre live act. has anyone ever listened to the Hawaii concert?  They can't even play "surfin" flawlessly. There are live performances of " I get around" where carl does not even play the guitar solo.  There are others where the singers frequently forget lyrics, and there are a good number of false starts.  Sure this is going to happen to everyone now and then, but it seemed to plague the Beach Boys.  As far as Dennis goes, windchimes is right on.  Dennis is an adequate drummer, but not great by any means.  If he played so well on the "When I grow up" recording, why did he not play it the same way live?  Take a look at the read steady go performance.  He plays "i get around" and "When I grow up" with the same exact beat.  Part of the Beach Boy's problem in the late sixties was that there recordings were so elaborate, and they were hard to duplicate on stage.  that is why their concerts in the seventies were so much better  - there were were more than five musicians on the stage.I love Brian Wilson and i love the beach boys, but cut windchimes some slack.......he has a valid point.

Cut Windchimes some slack for saying "Dennis was a HORRIBLE drummer"?? And for comparing the BB's to STEVIE RAY VAUGHAN?? I don't cut slack to people who are that far off base. Windchimes created the thread, and asked the question, and gave his opinion. It seems that more than a few here have a different one. Fair game.

[windchimes]

Hey, glad to here that somebody has listened to some concerts from the 66-67 era and know what I am talking about. (thanks wonderful)

The drumming part isnt even the half of it Jon. Havent you ever noticed the number of times he couldnt end the song with the rest of the group? Is that rock and roll?

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

I didn't read this thread because the rules of "Rock-n-Roll" are too vague and subjective to come to any closure with the question. You could define rock music as simply an expression of feeling; in which case Dennis not stopping with the band doesn't matter one bit.

How about Carl hitting the wrong chord to Wendy on TV? That's hilarious, and memorable. I knew that rumour before I had even heard the song Wendy because it's such a hilarious thing to do. On a very distinct intro with only three chords, to mess up the third is great. If he had played it through without that it wouldn't bring half as much pleasure to my ears and eyes. Seeing Dennis lower his head almost in shame at Carl's mistake is great.

[I. Spaceman]

WC, have you thought it may not be the best idea to trash Dennis Wilson on a BB board? We have all heard those same concerts and we don't agree with you. 2 or 3 agree with you, at least 30 or so don't. Doesn't that sound about right? Why don't you frequent a board dedicated to a band that you really like?
What do you think would happen if I went to a Stones board and said Charlie Watts was a terrible drummer?
Have you not read that people like Hal Blaine thought Dennis was a great drummer? Do you think your opinion matters more, or even as much, as them? Stebbins is a BB scholar, way more than you or I could ever hope to be. You see the Honored Guest below his name? There's a reason for that.

[the captain]

I'll just address the thread's question directly and be personally done with it.

While I have noticed that many members of the Beach Boys made mistakes on their instruments, and even were not virtuosic in their playing, no, the stage talent level does not piss me off.

[windchimes]

WC, have you thought it may not be the best idea to trash Dennis Wilson on a BB board? We have all heard those same concerts and we don't agree with you. 2 or 3 agree with you, at least 30 or so don't. Doesn't that sound about right? Why don't you frequent on a board dedicated to a band that you really like?
What do you think would happen if I went to a Stones board and said Charlie Watts was a terrible drummer. Have you not read that people like Hal Blaine thought Dennis was a great drummer? Do you think your opinion matters more, or even as much, as them? Stebbins is a BB scholar, way more than you or I could ever hope to be. You see the Honored Guest below his name? There's a reason for that.

Its obviously thought provoking. I am not trashing Dennis Wilson. If you read my original post, I talk about all of the band members. It was interesting to me why they had such a hard time on stage. I will live and die a Beach Boy fan. Just because his name says honored guest his opinion is of more value? I am made of flesh and blood just like Jon. All I asked was if it bugged you or not. I really didnt ask "Who wants to make this thread akward and put down other members"? I appreciate the feedbacl though.

[windchimes]

I didn't read this thread because the rules of "Rock-n-Roll" are too vague and subjective to come to any closure with the question. You could define rock music as simply an expression of feeling; in which case Dennis not stopping with the band doesn't matter one bit.

How about Carl hitting the wrong chord to Wendy on TV? That's hilarious, and memorable. I knew that rumour before I had even heard the song Wendy because it's such a hilarious thing to do. On a very distinct intro with only three chords, to mess up the third is great. If he had played it through without that it wouldn't bring half as much pleasure to my ears and eyes. Seeing Dennis lower his head almost in shame at Carl's mistake is great.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that! I didnt see the Dennis head part.  That is classic! You see what i mean though?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Do you think your opinion matters more, or even as much, as them? Stebbins is a BB scholar, way more than you or I could ever hope to be. You see the Honored Guest below his name? There's a reason for that.

If somebody is a BB scholar, or an Honored Guest, or just a first time poster, it means that you should repect their opinion. It doesn't mean you have to agree with their opinion.

The fact that 2 or 3 people agreed with windchimes and 30 disagreed with windchime tells YOU something, but it could tell ME something different. Maybe a lot more people agree with him, but aren't confident enough to express their opinion, or simply don't feel like debating the subject.

[GETTINHUNGRY]

Look - I think we are getting off the point.  Windchime's question was about the BAND!  He made a comment in passing on Denny (one he probably did not totally mean), but the real issue is the live band.  The Beach Boys were a mediocre band in the late sixties.  In fact, the strongest musician in the band was Brian, and he was not even there most of the time.  This Mr. Stebbins may be a scholar, but we all have ears.  Being honest about the fact that the Beach Boys were not a great live band does not make us unloyal fans.  why could'nt the Beach Boys perform better live?  That is the ral question.  If the other four members of the band were great musicians, then Brian would have used them instead of all the hired musicians.  This was obviously not the case.  Let's quit attacking Windchimes and answer the question at hand!

[windchimes]

 Thanks for the support Sheriff. I really didnt mean for this to become a Denny bashing party. I was actually hoping we would talk more about the other members of the band. Like I said, I love the Beach Boys. They are my favorite band. I would never post anything on here deliberately to put down that greatest band ever.

I think I have asked this already, but does anybody know of the practice habits of the boys during the 60's? Did Brian ever practice with them? Based on the concerts I have heard, it seems to me that they pretty much just assumed that had it down for doing it in the recording session.