If the Beach Boys did release Smile back in the day

[StillSurfin]

This has most likely been discussed before, but I was thinking, if the Beach Boys did release "Smile" what would the reception have been to the album?, from critics, fans and other musicians like The Beatles for example. Also what impact would it have had in terms of influencing/changing music, or do you think it would be an album that over time would have been appreciated but not overly praised when first released.

[puni puni]

There has been no less than nine billion 'what if' threads on this board, and it's extremely difficult to believe that anybody would have anything new to write on this tired subject. Look for some books, reviews, online essays, or search the archives. There is also a ton of fan fiction stories devoted to an alternate history where Smile was released. Some of them have made it into published novels, including Mssr. Wilson's written by Todd Gold.

[Mr. Verlander]

There has been no less than nine billion 'what if' threads on this board, and it's extremely difficult to believe that anybody would have anything new to write on this tired subject. Look for some books, reviews, online essays, or search the archives. There is also a ton of fan fiction stories devoted to an alternate history where Smile was released. Some of them have made it into published novels, including Mssr. Wilson's written by Todd Gold.

Right, and the guy has only posted 20 times on here, so obviously he's new. He doesn't know how many times it's been talked about. Give him a break.

[Mr. Verlander]

This has most likely been discussed before, but I was thinking, if the Beach Boys did release "Smile" what would the reception have been to the album?, from critics, fans and other musicians like The Beatles for example. Also what impact would it have had in terms of influencing/changing music, or do you think it would be an album that over time would have been appreciated but not overly praised when first released.

As great as it is, I don't think that it would've changed much of anything. For whatever reason, people (in my opinion) seemed to want to keep the BB's boxed in to one kind of music. The Beatles, on the other hand, were allowed to do whatever they wanted, and people seemed to dig it. I guess because The Beatles were a rock and roll band, and even when they got 'experimental', their stuff still sounded like a rock band, whereas the BB's, who were a rock and roll band, started to sound like classical music mixed with pop. I don't think it would've had the impact that it should've.

[Little Pad]

I think it would've had a mixed reaction commercially and critically, but it would gain a cult following that would continue to grow after its release.

[SenorPotatoHead]

Some possible outcomes

* It would have sold a million units.....in January!

* Then we would've had world peace.

* Ben & Jerry's would have named an ice cream flavor after Brian Wilson.


Only Rod Serling knows for certain.....only Rod......

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

There has been no less than nine billion 'what if' threads on this board, and it's extremely difficult to believe that anybody would have anything new to write on this tired subject. Look for some books, reviews, online essays, or search the archives. There is also a ton of fan fiction stories devoted to an alternate history where Smile was released. Some of them have made it into published novels, including Mssr. Wilson's written by Todd Gold.

Right, and the guy has only posted 20 times on here, so obviously he's new. He doesn't know how many times it's been talked about. Give him a break.

Assuming the OP doesn't also get flak for it, it's not that hard to search the archives, read some earlier threads about the same topic, then add his/her two cents.

Not trying to make you feel bad by any means, OP. I just think if you want to know what this board has to say on the topic, you'd have better luck going about it in that way, as I doubt many people will care to repost their same thoughts again on yet another thread asking this question.

But, I'd like to answer you here anyway because I love talking about SMiLE and I know what it's like to be new here

I think SMiLE's immediate success depends on when in 1967 it's released. If in January 1967, I think it would have been huge. Like, #1 a million units shipped, huge. Good Vibrations was their biggest hit yet and was still on the charts. Pet Sounds was a great artistic success (and despite popular myth, actually sold very well too) and they were voted the best band in the world at this time. SMiLE, despite what many will tell you, was not "too weird" to sell. It was 1967. Crazy psychedelic music was all the rage. Pop music was pushing boundaries like never before. The public was eagerly awaiting any new material from the Boys especially. Surf's Up was demoed on TV, Capitol was hyping the new album for months, it was the beginning of the "Brian is a genius" campaign...there's no way it would've disappointed, much less flopped.

If it had taken until April, May or June then the answers a bit less definite. I still think it wouldve been a great success, but probably not a smash hit. In this scenario, many other bands wouldve already released their great psychedelic opuses, and the competition with Sgt Pepper would be imminent and fierce. I think Pepper wouldve outsold it for the simple fact that they're the Beatles and because Pepper is dumbed down crap (oh, excuse me, I mean uh... "more easily accessible") but SMiLE probably would've still been a top ten (at least top 20) record.

If it came out when, say, Smiley did in real life (September) THEN I think you'd have the overlooked gem that a lot of people say SMiLE was doomed to be had it been released. In this scenario, the Beatles wouldve been seen as the clear victors in the "production race" rightly or wrongly. The Boys wouldve missed Monterey still, which was a HUGE blow to their reputation in the US. New up and coming giants like Hendrix, Joplin, the Who, the Doors and many others wouldve rendered them irrelevant. In this scenario, I see SMiLE being largely overlooked by the contemporary press and selling at #30 to #40 on the charts. Just a rough guess.

In any case, the long term success is the same. Initially somewhat overshadowed by Pepper but comes to be regarded as THE great album of the year abd the best psychedelic statement. Think Pet Sounds. That kind of growing appreciation and eventual enduring legacy.

[StillSurfin]

I'll remember to check the archives in future and thanks Mujan for the very informative reply  

From listening to both Brian's and the version of Smile from the boxset I would agree that its not "too weird"  to have sold, especially compared to what other groups and musicians were doing at the time. In fact, its very accessible music & would have been a great follow up to Pet Sounds. Although maybe from Capitol Records perspective they may have wanted a Pet Sounds II or another surf-girls-cars album (including Good Vibrations) from the Beach Boys as it would have been a guaranteed seller on the heels of Pet Sounds. Interesting scenarios on when the album could have been possibly released, I definitely agree if it predated Sgt Pepper etc then it would have been huge. It may have been answered before, but if Smile was a smash, would they have continued to go with the psychedelic style and continued being experimental, or if Smile had stiffed on the charts, would they have backtracked and stayed with the tried & tested hit formula of before?.

[Gabo]

they would have lost all their fans. good thing they didn't take that anti-commercial risk

[Nicko1234]

I'll remember to check the archives in future and thanks Mujan for the very informative reply  

From listening to both Brian's and the version of Smile from the boxset I would agree that its not "too weird"  to have sold, especially compared to what other groups and musicians were doing at the time. In fact, its very accessible music & would have been a great follow up to Pet Sounds. Although maybe from Capitol Records perspective they may have wanted a Pet Sounds II or another surf-girls-cars album (including Good Vibrations) from the Beach Boys as it would have been a guaranteed seller on the heels of Pet Sounds. Interesting scenarios on when the album could have been possibly released, I definitely agree if it predated Sgt Pepper etc then it would have been huge. It may have been answered before, but if Smile was a smash, would they have continued to go with the psychedelic style and continued being experimental, or if Smile had stiffed on the charts, would they have backtracked and stayed with the tried & tested hit formula of before?.

Well, Smiley Smile wasn`t a huge success but they didn`t return to the hit formula of before...

[phirnis]

Would've sold about as well as Pet Sounds I think.

[rogerlancelot]

If Smile had been released back in the day then none of us would have ever had to suffer the foul and pungent aroma called "How She Boogalooed It".

[Micha]

If Smile had been released back in the day then none of us would have ever had to suffer the foul and pungent aroma called "How She Boogalooed It".

You mean my favorite non-single track from the Wild Honey album?

[TimeToGetAlone]

A part of me in alternate history wishes there was a late '66 Surf's Up single release.  Not because it's necessarily single material, but because even if it made the top 25 (which on the heels of Good Vibrations, I'm sure it would have) it might get more recognition as the masterpiece it is.  Unless you have an album that sweeps the public off their feet like Sgt. Pepper's, being at least a modest hit seems to be the next best way to garner canon legacy.

[leggo of my ego]

If the Beach Boys did release Smile back in the day

If released as scheduled (or before) A lot of minds wouldve been blown and the course of music history changed.
 
Because many bands and musicians would have been influenced & emulated it.

Sgt Peppers reception would have been tepid in comparsion.

[37!ws]

My thoughts:

If Smile had come out before Sgt. Pepper's..., it would have been ignored. Too out there for existing Beach Boys fans, and by this time non-fans probably wouldn't have seen the Beach Boys as having any hip credibility to begin with.

If Smile had come out even one day after Sgt. Pepper's..., it would have been dismissed as one of the many copycat albums, along with Their Satanic Majesties Requests.

[Micha]

If SMiLE had come out, it would be regarded as a classic on the level of the mentioned Their Satanic Majesties Request and The Who Sell Out. No less, little more. It just doesn't have the accessability of Pepper, with the exception of Good Vibrations. I think however that Surf's Up would have sounded a lot more impressive than the 1971 version, so it might be better known to the casual listener than it is now.

[SenorPotatoHead]

The "accessibility" thing has always sort of got my goat (and I love my goat!) because even though I "get" what people are talking about when they say this, I think it is severely underestimating the audience available to the band at that place and time.   They might have lost a few fans with this one, but I believe they would have gained more in return.  First off, listening to Good Vibrations - yes it's a far out, modern sounding track - but it's catchy as hell, it's pure pop magic, and frankly - who cares what the lyrics are - it's a winner no matter what the lyrics ended up being (I know many will not agree with this opinion, and that's fine - but I feel this way 100% - I love great lyrics too, but they are OVERRATED in importance).  Good Vibes was a #1 world wide hit, biggest of their careers - it set the stage for something different, the many press accounts at the time were setting the stage for something different, the UK were on their knees for the band and couldn't wait for the next release, the hipsters were cautious perhaps, but they were definitely going to give whatever the band released next a listen - you can bet your butt on that.   Now,. like GV, Cabin Essence, Surf's Up, Wonderful - these sound plenty captivating, catchy and accessible to me, and I believe they would have been at the time.  Mind blowing and amazing yes (first time i heard Cabin Essence I nearly sh*t myself freaking out over how incredible it was), but totally approachable all the same. 
Personally, I fully believe, whatever the chart peak it may have obtained, this thing would have impressed listeners - new and old, press and critics, as well as finally gained them more attention from older audiences. 
You can say I'm wrong (as is your right), but I feel I'm correct.  This music only seemed inaccessible because it was unfinished, which lends a faulty perception of it. 
and blah blah blah, what do I know?  I don't, this is just what I feel.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Just practically speaking, and not delving into all of the tracks (we don't know the exact list but we can make an educated guess), I think the album would've been kick-started by "Good Vibrations". Remember, back in the day, records (45's) wore out, and I believe many fans would've welcomed a fresh, new, non-scratchy copy of "Good Vibrations" on the album. "Heroes And Villains" would've at the very least kept the momentum going, and maybe a third single would've completed the trifecta.

I think SMiLE would've barely cracked the Top 10, maybe even quickly faded after that, but hung around in the listeners', critics', and other musicians' psyches/listening habits, that eventually the other standout tracks ("Cabinessence", "Surf's Up", "Child", "Worms",etc.) would've eventually made the album a staple and consistent seller over the ensuing 50 years. The music is too good to be ignored. It would've gotten out. And stayed there. Like Pet Sounds.

[Micha]

You can say I'm wrong (as is your right), but I feel I'm correct.  This music only seemed inaccessible because it was unfinished, which lends a faulty perception of it. 

With the exception of DYLW, I don't find the music inaccessible. It's rather the lyrics that hard to access. The big exception here is Good Vibrations. The only other song where the imagery works for me personally is Cabin Essence. (My father doesn't even like the music...)

[Summertime Blooz]

The "accessibility" thing has always sort of got my goat (and I love my goat!) because even though I "get" what people are talking about when they say this, I think it is severely underestimating the audience available to the band at that place and time.   They might have lost a few fans with this one, but I believe they would have gained more in return.  First off, listening to Good Vibrations - yes it's a far out, modern sounding track - but it's catchy as hell, it's pure pop magic, and frankly - who cares what the lyrics are - it's a winner no matter what the lyrics ended up being (I know many will not agree with this opinion, and that's fine - but I feel this way 100% - I love great lyrics too, but they are OVERRATED in importance).  Good Vibes was a #1 world wide hit, biggest of their careers - it set the stage for something different, the many press accounts at the time were setting the stage for something different, the UK were on their knees for the band and couldn't wait for the next release, the hipsters were cautious perhaps, but they were definitely going to give whatever the band released next a listen - you can bet your butt on that.   Now,. like GV, Cabin Essence, Surf's Up, Wonderful - these sound plenty captivating, catchy and accessible to me, and I believe they would have been at the time.  Mind blowing and amazing yes (first time i heard Cabin Essence I nearly sh*t myself freaking out over how incredible it was), but totally approachable all the same.  
Personally, I fully believe, whatever the chart peak it may have obtained, this thing would have impressed listeners - new and old, press and critics, as well as finally gained them more attention from older audiences.  
You can say I'm wrong (as is your right), but I feel I'm correct.  This music only seemed inaccessible because it was unfinished, which lends a faulty perception of it.  
and blah blah blah, what do I know?  I don't, this is just what I feel.

Good post! And I'm not only saying this because I agree with your intelligent observations. You have a knack for cutting to the heart of things.

[Capitol Punishment]

My personal opinion:

If by January 1967: Smile would have hit the Top 10, peaking at around #8 in the US and Top 5 in UK. Heroes and Villains would have hit Top 10 in US and Top 5 in UK. Both would be praised by critics in UK and mixed/positive in US.

Spring of 1967:  Smile would chart very similarly to Pet Sounds, maybe a little lower in US, at least #8 in UK. Heroes would hit Top 20 in US and Top 10 in UK. Both would be praised by critics in UK and mixed/positive in US.

Summer/Fall of 1967: Smile- Top 20-25 in US, Top 10 in UK. Heroes and Villains- Top 20 in US, Top 10 in UK. Critically: Smile- See Satanic's Request (Maybe a bit better, at least in UK)

I feel that Monterey really killed the Boys' career because people stopped giving into the "Brian the genius" campaign and were now feeling that the Beach Boys either gave up or ran out of ideas. Brian waited way too long to release a record coupled with the fact that Smiley Smile isn't the most commercial album. Also, Smile would definitely not be as famous as it is in reality.

[SenorPotatoHead]

The "accessibility" thing has always sort of got my goat (and I love my goat!) because even though I "get" what people are talking about when they say this, I think it is severely underestimating the audience available to the band at that place and time.   They might have lost a few fans with this one, but I believe they would have gained more in return.  First off, listening to Good Vibrations - yes it's a far out, modern sounding track - but it's catchy as hell, it's pure pop magic, and frankly - who cares what the lyrics are - it's a winner no matter what the lyrics ended up being (I know many will not agree with this opinion, and that's fine - but I feel this way 100% - I love great lyrics too, but they are OVERRATED in importance).  Good Vibes was a #1 world wide hit, biggest of their careers - it set the stage for something different, the many press accounts at the time were setting the stage for something different, the UK were on their knees for the band and couldn't wait for the next release, the hipsters were cautious perhaps, but they were definitely going to give whatever the band released next a listen - you can bet your butt on that.   Now,. like GV, Cabin Essence, Surf's Up, Wonderful - these sound plenty captivating, catchy and accessible to me, and I believe they would have been at the time.  Mind blowing and amazing yes (first time i heard Cabin Essence I nearly sh*t myself freaking out over how incredible it was), but totally approachable all the same.  
Personally, I fully believe, whatever the chart peak it may have obtained, this thing would have impressed listeners - new and old, press and critics, as well as finally gained them more attention from older audiences.  
You can say I'm wrong (as is your right), but I feel I'm correct.  This music only seemed inaccessible because it was unfinished, which lends a faulty perception of it.  
and blah blah blah, what do I know?  I don't, this is just what I feel.

Good post! And I'm not only saying this because I agree with your intelligent observations. You have a knack for cutting to the heart of things.

Thank you 

[RangeRoverA1]

I doubt that if Smile had been released, it would've led to the Beatles breaking up. It is ambitious work, too far-out & ahead of its time that no one would get it for ensuing 5 years or more. The album sales would be low. If Brian had an idea to make 2 albums - one complex & other same thing stripped-down (Smiley), then I like this scenario. But of course, it couldn't be done that way, nothing ideal.

[rogerlancelot]

What if the Beach Boys had released Lei'd In Hawaii back in 1967 (instead of Wild Honey)? I think they would have had a hard time living that one down!