"Don't Back Down" Organ Question

[c-man]

Hey, keyboard experts - what is the general opinion regarding the organ on "Don't Back Down"...is it a Hammond? Convential wisdom and expert opinion dictates that a Hammond was used on other ASL songs such as "I Get Around" and "Wendy"...and from what I've been able to determine, the famous mid-'60s "transistor" type organ didn't exist until '65 (a year later), but those of you with access to the session should listen to the track labeled "Don't Back Down (Rehearsals)" - specifically at the 0:32 mark - and tell me it's not a classic transistor organ through a tube amp sound? Maybe not, maybe a Hammond can absoultely sound that way, especially through a Leslie speaker. Opinions please?

[ToneBender631]

Hey, keyboard experts - what is the general opinion regarding the organ on "Don't Back Down"...is it a Hammond? Convential wisdom and expert opinion dictates that a Hammond was used on other ASL songs such as "I Get Around" and "Wendy"...and from what I've been able to determine, the famous mid-'60s "transistor" type organ didn't exist until '65 (a year later), but those of you with access to the session should listen to the track labeled "Don't Back Down (Rehearsals)" - specifically at the 0:32 mark - and tell me it's not a classic transistor organ through a tube amp sound? Maybe not, maybe a Hammond can absoultely sound that way, especially through a Leslie speaker. Opinions please?

Don't have that session handy at the moment but the VOX Continental came out in 1962 so it's not impossible that there would've been a transistor organ available. Combo-organ.com is a great reference.

[guitarfool2002]

Listen to the "take 2" recording, the track right after the "rehearsal" on SOT...right at 1:00. It's very clear. The organ plays solo, up in the mix, and Chuck tells Brian he has to watch covering up the guitar, asking which should be louder. Ahhh...early 60's recording.  

You always put these brain-buster type questions out there, which is cool!

First, if it were a transistor I think we covered this before there weren't many Vox Continentals in the US before 1964, surely not in regular use. If you hear transistor organ on anything pre-British Invasion, chances are it was a Farfisa.

I hear a lot of fellow Hawthorne star Chris Montez's "Let's Dance" - which was a monster hit in 62-63 - in the groove and in the organ riffs/style on Don't Back Down. On the Montez record, it's Ray Johnson playing a Farfisa, so compare Let's Dance to the "Don't Back Down" sound and see how close it is, because the Montez record was cut at Gold Star and mixing/additional work done at Western, so we're on the same playing field equipment-wise and sonically.

C-Man: I hear the "low" left-hand growling notes as Hammond overdriving a Leslie. But the high notes sound like a transistor, right?

What Brian could have done was play the low notes on the lower keyboard (or manual), and the high notes on the upper keyboard, and you'd be able to set the drawbars different for each of the two manuals and get different "stops" or tones out of the Hammond, like splitting the keyboard...perhaps that's what he did? Those B3 and C3 models each had 9 drawbars for each of the two manuals, plus presets...so you could get a growl out of the lower and a trebly flute-y whistle from the upper by setting the drawbars that way...whether that's what was done here is the question.

I'm going Hammond-Leslie on Dont Back Down, especially with that low rumble. But short of being positive (which is my usual thing) I'd seriously take a listen to Ray Johnson's Farfisa on Montez's "Let's Dance" and A/B them, since both records share a studio history, were done in the same general time period, and we know for a fact Montez had a Farfisa playing that part.

[Tomorrowville]

Timeline wise, it's possible it could have been a combo organ, but to my ears, I hear a Hammond.  I suppose it's possible it could be a Vox combo organ (they can sound more "Hammond-y" than a Farfisa under the right circumstances) but to me I just hear straight Hammond.

(Source:  I play a Farfisa Mini-Compact multiple times a week.   )

I could absolutely be mistaken - just going by what my ears tell me.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm going to suggest the chances of having a Vox combo organ in the US prior to 1964 were very slim, simply because they weren't being distributed and sold outside the UK until a deal was struck with Thomas in the US to get them over here, similar to what Vox did with their amps after Beatlemania struck the USA. How many American guitar players in 1963 were using Vox amps? Very few if any at all. Same reasons, they just weren't available in the US.

Again, not saying some forward-thinking musician or studio in LA didn't order a Continental and have it "imported" from the UK in 1963 but the chances of having one when "Dont Back Down" was recorded were pretty slim. The Farfisa was the main portable-transistor organ available at this particular time in the US.

[guitarfool2002]

Or for some recorded evidence of the timeline with Vox Continentals, check out any list of famous or hit 60's records that feature a Vox, there's nothing on the lists coming out of American studios before 1964, and after '64 and especially into '65 and '66 the Continental starts to appear more often, simply because by then the deals were struck to sell and distribute them in America.

[Tomorrowville]

True that.  *Technically* the timeline works, but as you say, it'd be a stretch for a US recording.

Given the likely choices of Hammond or Farfisa going by the timeline logic, I gotta say - Hammond all the way.  The Farfisas have such a distinctly weird quality to their sounds (the waves they generate, and the way they filter them, were unique from most other combo organs) that, to me, it'd stick out if I heard that quality there.

[ToneBender631]

To be clear, the lack of U.S. distribution isn't really that big of a deal. If Brian Wilson wanted a VOX Continental in 1964, JMI would've found a way to get him one. The issue is simply that Brian is unlikely to have heard of it since it didn't really feature prominently on any big hits until "The House of the Rising Sun" came out, which was after the sessions for "Don't Back Down".

[guitarfool2002]

Let me say to Tomorrowville, it's great to have a musician contributing here who not only has but also actively plays and gigs with a Farfisa! Very cool. I'll definitely be checking out your music. I think there are a few Farfisa players or owners who post here.

Question, off-topic: Do you have one for gigs and one or more for parts, or how hard is it maintaining a gig-worthy vintage Farfisa? I guess there are more repairmen and parts places than a few decades ago, but I wondered how the maintenance part of it works out for a road-worthy vintage organ.

This issue of Don't Back Down and what organ was used is actually one of considering and weighing the options that were available, and especially with this song in particular we have "Let's Dance" from the same studios, same time period, etc. and we can hear a definitive sonic example of what a Farfisa sounded like at Gold Star or Western in 1962. We can suggest 99% chance that it's probably not a Vox unless one got imported in 63 to a US studio, and we can A-B by ear what the Farfisa versus the organ at this session sounded like.

Circumstantial evidence? Perhaps. But pretty convincing.  

[c-man]

Thanks, guys - I really appreciate it! For some reason, I'd gotten it in my head that '65 was the first production year for Farfisa, but regardless, it sounds like Hammond is the correct answer.

[c-man]

Just checked out Montez' "Let's Dance", and that definitely has the Farfisa sound ala Question Mark and the Mysterians' "99 Tears". It sounds different enough from the "Don't Back Down" organ to indicate a different brand of instrument. Plus, as mentioned, there's two distinct organ sounds on "DBD", for the lower and upper parts, definitely suggesting a two-manual organ. The Farisa Compact Duo (their two-keyboard model) wan't introduced until '65 - maybe that's where I got that year!

[guitarfool2002]

To be clear, the lack of U.S. distribution isn't really that big of a deal. If Brian Wilson wanted a VOX Continental in 1964, JMI would've found a way to get him one. The issue is simply that Brian is unlikely to have heard of it since it didn't really feature prominently on any big hits until "The House of the Rising Sun" came out, which was after the sessions for "Don't Back Down".

Great point and clarification, I was leaning more on the availability but as you explained that was a phone call or two away if they wanted one, or any Vox product for that matter. But the prominence of that organ and its sound wasn't in the US mindset until that Animals record became a smash hit, so if it wasn't a known sound there wouldn't be many asking for it in the US.

[Tomorrowville]

Let me say to Tomorrowville, it's great to have a musician contributing here who not only has but also actively plays and gigs with a Farfisa! Very cool. I'll definitely be checking out your music. I think there are a few Farfisa players or owners who post here.

Question, off-topic: Do you have one for gigs and one or more for parts, or how hard is it maintaining a gig-worthy vintage Farfisa? I guess there are more repairmen and parts places than a few decades ago, but I wondered how the maintenance part of it works out for a road-worthy vintage organ.

Yeah, I freakin' love my Farfisa.  Specifically, mine is the smaller size, a 1965 Mini-Compact, the first generation of that size (as such, it doesn't have the bass octave of later revisions).  Here it is on its removable legs:





And here's an action shot - when we do shows, I prefer to stand when playing, so I leave off the original legs and mount it on a nice, sturdy, tall keyboard stand - being 6'3" and trying to play a Farfisa on its own legs while standing results in some wicked hunchback action:



As to the question of gigging with it, keeping it maintained, etc. - *ideally,* I'd have spares.  At the moment, though, this is my only one.  I do have a backup, just in case things go south:  a MIDI recreation of the exact same Mini-Compact created by a combo organ fan who gives the plug-in away for free.  It's called "Combo Model F," and the sound is shockingly accurate.  If need be, I can set up my MIDI keyboard, hook up my MacBook to an amp, and go.  Sound-wise, most audiences wouldn't care - but it *definitely* doesn't have the vibe and look of the real deal.

I was lucky with my particular Mini-Compact - it's in extremely good working condition, and apart from a few scrapes on the Tolex, it's in great visual shape, too.  When I got it (from a guy in Seattle), it had one issue - the F#s were all wrong.  Turned out the F# generator card had been cracked in half.  Fortunately, over in Dallas there is an excellent shop that repairs all sorts of weird electronic instruments.  They were able to repair the card and freshen everything up, and ever since it's been great.

Tuning is easy, and as far as the innards go, the biggest thing that can wear out are things like the capacitors, which are easy to replace with modern versions as needed.  I treat it gently during transport and set-up/teardown, and I think it's got plenty of life left in it.  Between the MIDI backup, my music nerd friends and I, and the repair shop over in Dallas, I don't worry about anything going wrong too much.

That all said...yes, I plan on getting more.  It's a sickness.    I wouldn't mind having a later Mini-Compact with the bass octave, and I also plan to get all full-on regular Compact for more variety in the sounds.

[guitarfool2002]

Tomorrowville: Fantastic! Wow, thanks for sharing the photos and info. Awesome. Just curious, what kind of amp are you running the Farfisa through on stage?

It's great that in 2014 there are many more outlets for parts and repairs. Quick story and the reason why I mentioned having a spare rig earlier: Around 1993 I walked into a vintage shop in Boston, and the guy was selling an original Hohner Clavinet in really good and clean (working) condition for somewhere around 400 or 500 bucks. Caught my eye, naturally, and I started asking questions. He told me flat out, which I appreciate to this day, if you buy this make sure you buy another one for parts. I had a similar thing with a Hammond M3 a shop was selling the year before. I was young and didn't know jack squat about the insider tips and tricks around repairs and parts, so that advice probably saved me a lot of problems and cash, too. It's good that there are good places and more of them on 2014 who have these parts and repairs more reachable for musicians into playing vintage.

Just two quick points: Your guitarist is playing a "Breadwinner" in the stage photo...you don't see that every day! Very cool. I know originals are tough to find these days, but Eastwood did a reissue/revisit of the style for their vintage line. I've wanted to check one out but no one local to me carried the brand. is that an Eastwood?

My other point: If I were anywhere near Texas, and a band was playing a gig with an original Farfisa and a Breadwinner guitar on stage, I'd be in the front row at that gig. 

[Tomorrowville]

At the moment, for shows, I'm running the Farfisa through a Fender Mustang guitar amp.  It's a solid-state modeling amp with tube amp models built-in - I use the Twin Reverb model.  I like the color it gives the Farfisa, but I am planning on eventually replacing it with a more powerful actual tube amp with multiple speakers - most likely a used Fender Hot Rod or a used Peavey Classic 50.  In recording our latest EP, I used one of those Peaveys and a Fender Vibroverb.

I can definitely see buying spares of vintage gear like that.  Like I said, I plan to eventually.  I think the thing that makes it not *quite* as crucial with combo organs like the Farfisas, Voxes, etc. is that, apart from the generator cards for each note (of which there are 12 - one for each note of the highest octave, which are then sent through filtering circuits to create the lower octaves), the tuning components, and things of that nature, there's not really *that* much inside them that is all that exotic.  All of the capacitors, transistors, etc. are fairly common electronics parts that have modern equivalents (which sound the same but benefit from modern technologies & manufacturing), which can be bought cheaply and replaced by somebody who knows their way around a soldering iron.  If the generator cards and some of the other esoteric parts can be kept up, it's not difficult to swap out most of the electronics components.  In fact, I think that losing a generator card isn't even a total show-stopper if you've got a good repair shop - mine epoxied the original card back together and jumped the broken circuits, but they said they could also build a new one if it came down to it.  (Of course, you'd have to *pay* for it, but it's at least a possibility.)

I am super amazed that somebody actually recognized Steph's Breadwinner!  They aren't exactly a common sight.    Hers is an Eastwood.  It's a very good recreation, apart from them not being able to use Ovation's distinctive headstock design.  It was our first Eastwood, and we're impressed - it's very well made and sounds and plays utterly fantastically.  Like the original, it can be used in both passive and active pickup mode.  She's also started using a Danelectro 12-string for some songs.

[Tomorrowville]

At the moment, for shows, I'm running the Farfisa through a Fender Mustang guitar amp.  It's a solid-state modeling amp with tube amp models built-in - I use the Twin Reverb model.  I like the color it gives the Farfisa, but I am planning on eventually replacing it with a more powerful actual tube amp with multiple speakers - most likely a used Fender Hot Rod or a used Peavey Classic 50.  In recording our latest EP, I used one of those Peaveys and a Fender Vibroverb.

I can definitely see buying spares of vintage gear like that.  Like I said, I plan to eventually.  I think the thing that makes it not *quite* as crucial with combo organs like the Farfisas, Voxes, etc. is that, apart from the generator cards for each note (of which there are 12 - one for each note of the highest octave, which are then sent through filtering circuits to create the lower octaves), the tuning components, and things of that nature, there's not really *that* much inside them that is all that exotic.  All of the capacitors, transistors, etc. are fairly common electronics parts that have modern equivalents (which sound the same but benefit from modern technologies & manufacturing), which can be bought cheaply and replaced by somebody who knows their way around a soldering iron.  If the generator cards and some of the other esoteric parts can be kept up, it's not difficult to swap out most of the electronics components.  In fact, I think that losing a generator card isn't even a total show-stopper if you've got a good repair shop - mine epoxied the original card back together and jumped the broken circuits, but they said they could also build a new one if it came down to it.  (Of course, you'd have to *pay* for it, but it's at least a possibility.)

I am super amazed that somebody actually recognized Steph's Breadwinner!  They aren't exactly a common sight.    Hers is an Eastwood.  It's a very good recreation, apart from them not being able to use Ovation's distinctive headstock design.  It was our first Eastwood, and we're impressed - it's very well made and sounds and plays great.  Like the original, it can be used in both passive and active pickup mode.  She's also started using a Danelectro 12-string for some songs.