Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?

[halblaineisgood]

.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

You guys really want candid opinions?

Mikie is collector. Dismissive of young whippersnappers. But he's got that collection. Can come off a bit dickish.

Mujan, you are completely useless.

Well, screw you too. I don't know what it takes to win the respect of you people here, and I'm sure I don't want to know any longer. It's like I can try to post honest opinions, new takes on an old subject, whatever, and I get sh!t on for it. I don't know if it's because I'm not part of some old established clique here or what, but the hostility from some of you here is completely uncalled for.

[Mikie]

You berated me incessantly for choosing to leave it off. Page after page you wouldn't let it go. You spearheaded a wave of others dismissing me because of that one, goofy little thing.

But it's not a "goofy little thing". For all intents and purposes, including strong evidence to support it, Good Vibrations was going to be a part of Smile! But since you elected to exclude it from your mix, it's of course your prerogative. I'm sorry - you seem to be a very sensitive chap. I apologize if it seemed like I was harassing you, bastard son of a Blue Wizard.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

You berated me incessantly for choosing to leave it off. Page after page you wouldn't let it go. You spearheaded a wave of others dismissing me because of that one, goofy little thing.

But it's not a "goofy little thing". For all intents and purposes, including strong evidence to support it, Good Vibrations was going to be a part of Smile! But since you elected to exclude it from your mix, it's of course your prerogative. I'm sorry - you seem to be a very sensitive chap. I apologize if it seemed like I was harassing you, bastard son of a Blue Wizard.

We've been over this. For over 6 pages. I said numerous times during the course of that infernal thread that it's probably what Brian would've done. Just not what *I* like to do when listening to my own version of SMiLE.

It's just really hard for me to believe that in the span of that entire thread and in all the times you've gone out of your way to put me down since, you never once thought you were being inconsiderate. That maybe enough's enough, this guys taking offense, maybe I should just let this silly crusade go, etc...

This isn't the first time I've expressed to you that I took offense to the way you were speaking to me. And yet you still come back with a vengeance, to give me yet another tounge-lashing for the heinous injustice of...telling another poster I liked their submission? Really? What could possibly be your purpose when you do things like that, except to get me riled up? Well, congratulations. It worked. And you seem to have the board on your side, too so way to go. I'm glad one of us has enjoyed this.

[The Demon]

EXACTLY!  And what happened to "Good Vibrations" would also have happened to "IIGS", "TOMP", "CIFOTM", and given enough time, "The Elements".  Sadly Brian couldn't stop fussing with "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and time ran out on the whole thing.

Not necessarily.  "Heroes and Villains" and "Vegetables" were revamped that much because they were considered singles.  "Great Shape," by comparison, is more of a castaway, part of "Heroes" rejected for other sections.  And prior to being considered a single, I wonder if that earlier "Vegetables" was the earth section of "The Elements."

Definitely agree with the 12 tracks.

But it's not a "goofy little thing". For all intents and purposes, including strong evidence to support it, Good Vibrations was going to be a part of Smile! But since you elected to exclude it from your mix, it's of course your prerogative. I'm sorry - you seem to be a very sensitive chap. I apologize if it seemed like I was harassing you, bastard son of a Blue Wizard.

Yeah, it's harassment.  You're comparing one person's fan mix with what's become a debate over what could have been, and taunting the guy, when there's no reason to.  That other thread was annoying because of this and now this one is becoming the same thing, so just let it go.  

[alf wiedersehen]

You guys really want candid opinions?

Mikie is collector. Dismissive of young whippersnappers. But he's got that collection. Can come off a bit dickish.

Mujan, you are completely useless.

Well, screw you too. I don't know what it takes to win the respect of you people here, and I'm sure I don't want to know any longer. It's like I can try to post honest opinions, new takes on an old subject, whatever, and I get sh!t on for it. I don't know if it's because I'm not part of some old established clique here or what, but the hostility from some of you here is completely uncalled for.

I wouldn't take too seriously what halblaineisgood has to say - it's not like he's of much use himself, either.

And I would say you do have a use: your Smile mixes are interesting and fresh.

[drbeachboy]

EXACTLY!  And what happened to "Good Vibrations" would also have happened to "IIGS", "TOMP", "CIFOTM", and given enough time, "The Elements".  Sadly Brian couldn't stop fussing with "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and time ran out on the whole thing.

Not necessarily.  "Heroes and Villains" and "Vegetables" were revamped that much because they were considered singles.  "Great Shape," by comparison, is more of a castaway, part of "Heroes" rejected for other sections.  And prior to being considered a single, I wonder if that earlier "Vegetables" was the earth section of "The Elements."

Definitely agree with the 12 tracks.

But it's not a "goofy little thing". For all intents and purposes, including strong evidence to support it, Good Vibrations was going to be a part of Smile! But since you elected to exclude it from your mix, it's of course your prerogative. I'm sorry - you seem to be a very sensitive chap. I apologize if it seemed like I was harassing you, bastard son of a Blue Wizard.

Yeah, it's harassment.  You're comparing one person's fan mix with what's become a debate over what could have been, and taunting the guy, when there's no reason to.  That other thread was annoying because of this and now this one is becoming the same thing, so just let it go. 

Maybe I am missing something here, but are we not asking whether Smile was 12 tracks or movements, etc. Also, which tracks those would be and what sequence would work best?  If that is the case, then certain songs need to be there. I know it is speculative, but no matter what Good Vibrations needs to be included. This isn't a personal track list, but an educated guess of what tracks Brian would have chosen. In that respect I am with Mikie on this point.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

EXACTLY!  And what happened to "Good Vibrations" would also have happened to "IIGS", "TOMP", "CIFOTM", and given enough time, "The Elements".  Sadly Brian couldn't stop fussing with "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and time ran out on the whole thing.

Not necessarily.  "Heroes and Villains" and "Vegetables" were revamped that much because they were considered singles.  "Great Shape," by comparison, is more of a castaway, part of "Heroes" rejected for other sections.  And prior to being considered a single, I wonder if that earlier "Vegetables" was the earth section of "The Elements."

Definitely agree with the 12 tracks.

But it's not a "goofy little thing". For all intents and purposes, including strong evidence to support it, Good Vibrations was going to be a part of Smile! But since you elected to exclude it from your mix, it's of course your prerogative. I'm sorry - you seem to be a very sensitive chap. I apologize if it seemed like I was harassing you, bastard son of a Blue Wizard.

Yeah, it's harassment.  You're comparing one person's fan mix with what's become a debate over what could have been, and taunting the guy, when there's no reason to.  That other thread was annoying because of this and now this one is becoming the same thing, so just let it go. 

Maybe I am missing something here, but are we not asking whether Smile was 12 tracks or movements, etc. Also, which tracks those would be and what sequence would work best?  If that is the case, then certain songs need to be there. I know it is speculative, but no matter what Good Vibrations needs to be included. This isn't a personal track list, but an educated guess of what tracks Brian would have chosen. In that respect I am with Mikie on this point.

This isn't regarding this thread. I posted a fanmix months ago where I excluded GV (tho, for the record, I think it wouldve been on a 1967 album finished by Brian.) Mike crudely let me know how wrong I was and spent a lot of time and (virtual) ink never letting me forget it. He's been outright nasty to me any time our paths accidentally crossed since then. This time, what set him off was me daring to give Bean Bag the proverbial thumbs up for what I deemed a very good post. So I finally called him out on it, because this has been going on for far too long and I've had it.

Sorry that it lead to this thread getting derailed. But, yeah, they weren't just referring to events on these three pages. Still waiting to hear back about that block feature...

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

You guys really want candid opinions?

Mikie is collector. Dismissive of young whippersnappers. But he's got that collection. Can come off a bit dickish.

Mujan, you are completely useless.

Well, screw you too. I don't know what it takes to win the respect of you people here, and I'm sure I don't want to know any longer. It's like I can try to post honest opinions, new takes on an old subject, whatever, and I get sh!t on for it. I don't know if it's because I'm not part of some old established clique here or what, but the hostility from some of you here is completely uncalled for.

I wouldn't take too seriously what halblaineisgood has to say - it's not like he's of much use himself, either.

And I would say you do have a use: your Smile mixes are interesting and fresh.

I appreciate you saying so. There's a lot of unwelcoming people on here, but the nice ones like you make it almost worth it.

Thanks, Demon, for sticking up for me as well. It's frustrating how he keeps turning it around on me for being "sensitive/paranoid" all the time. It's never his fault, gotta be someone else...

[Sheriff John Stone]

Maybe I am missing something here, but are we not asking whether Smile was 12 tracks or movements, etc. Also, which tracks those would be and what sequence would work best?  If that is the case, then certain songs need to be there. I know it is speculative, but no matter what Good Vibrations needs to be included. This isn't a personal track list, but an educated guess of what tracks Brian would have chosen. In that respect I am with Mikie on this point.

It started out as a personal preference - 3 movements or 12-14 tracks. But, naturally the thread was going to expand as to what the 12-14 tracks are/woulda/coulda/shoulda been. And, I don't think there's anything wrong with the thread moving in that direction. I mean, the tracks themselves obviously influence your preference.

I wish there was an unwritten rule that you can't criticize people's SMiLE fanmixes. Even though there is some documentation and history involved with almost all the tracks in question, a person's SMiLE fanmix is BASICALLY THEIR OPINION. There are no right and wrong choices - because the damn thing never came out! Even Brian didn't have all the answer(s). A SMiLE fanmix is speculation, no more and no less.

So, please, even if somebody doesn't preface their fanmix with "I think this is the way it MIGHT'VE come out", just assume that's what they mean. That way some pompous and arrogant poster doesn't have to reply, "Where's your proof?"

[drbeachboy]

Mujan, Thanks for clarifying. Hey, on my stereo Smile mix, I use Carl's 1971 Surf's Up. Brian's demo vocal does absolutely nothing for me. Actually, of his two, I prefer the 1967 demo.

[alf wiedersehen]

And prior to being considered a single, I wonder if that earlier "Vegetables" was the earth section of "The Elements."

Well, for what it's worth, I posted this in the "Vegetables" thread awhile ago:

Not sure if this is news or not, but I found something interesting about VegeTables in the booklet for the 2-CD version and in the vinyl booklet. There is large artwork for VegeTables near the end of both and, in the bottom right corner, it says '"My Vege-tables' The Elements."

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Maybe I am missing something here, but are we not asking whether Smile was 12 tracks or movements, etc. Also, which tracks those would be and what sequence would work best?  If that is the case, then certain songs need to be there. I know it is speculative, but no matter what Good Vibrations needs to be included. This isn't a personal track list, but an educated guess of what tracks Brian would have chosen. In that respect I am with Mikie on this point.

It started out as a personal preference - 3 movements or 12-14 tracks. But, naturally the thread was going to expand as to what the 12-14 tracks are/woulda/coulda/shoulda been. And, I don't think there's anything wrong with the thread moving in that direction. I mean, the tracks themselves obviously influence your preference.

I wish there was an unwritten rule that you can't criticize people's SMiLE fanmixes. Even though there is some documentation and history involved with almost all the tracks in question, a person's SMiLE fanmix is BASICALLY THEIR OPINION. There are no right and wrong choices - because the damn thing never came out! Even Brian didn't have all the answer(s). A SMiLE fanmix is speculation, no more and no less.

So, please, even if somebody doesn't preface their fanmix with "I think this is the way it MIGHT'VE come out", just assume that's what they mean. That way some pompous and arrogant poster doesn't have to reply, "Where's your proof?"

I don't mind criticism at all--I openly encourage it in the YouTube page and I encouraged it in the thread. What bothers me is outright dismissal. And using my choices to judge me as a person. And encouraging others to do the same. And putting me down further for defending myself. There's absolutely no cause for that type of behavior at all. However much he tries to whitewash it now, it really is playground bullying level behavior. I'm only making such a big deal of it because I'd like the mods here to take full notice. Either add a block feature or ban posters that do that kind of thing. This topic of hostility on the board has come up before. It was mentioned on the thread trending now regarding Brian's new album and one of the mods acknowledged it himself around when I stopped posting awhile ago. Maybe it's time to actually do something about it?

[SenorPotatoHead]

For crying out loud, quit fighting about Smile preferences - because that's all any of it is, preferences.  It was never completed til 2004, but 2004 was 2004, not 1966/67.  Despite whatever "evidence" one or another may have as to this that or another particular of how the album may have been - none of it means squat, because it wasn't finished originally, and again 2004 is Brian (and whomever else had input) then, not back in the 60's.  
So whatever configuration, mutation, derivation, ejaculation you wish to make of the album - do it, fan mix and treasure your own little theories til they are worn and snug like an old, much loved cuddly toy - but no one, and i mean no one, not even Brian it seems, can definitively state what an original Smile album would have been or would not have been.  
So do whatever the heck you want with your own personal mixes - that's what it's all about anyway if you ask me - the audio equivalent of a Rubics Cube, only there isn't any right answer - every answer is right.
I think the main issue the hard asses here have a problem with is when opinions, or preferences are stated as fact.   Don't do that.  There are plenty of "facts" with Smile - but no definite answer - unless you are of the mind that 2004 is the definitive answer - which is your preference, but realize it may not be everyone's.  
These arguments are so stupid.  It's really not that difficult - mix and let mix, fanboys.  
and that's all the Potato has to say.  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

For crying out loud, quit fighting about Smile preferences - because that's all any of it is, preferences.  It was never completed til 2004, but 2004 was 2004, not 1966/67.  Despite whatever "evidence" one or another may have as to this that or another particular of how the album may have been - none of it means squat, because it wasn't finished originally, and again 2004 is Brian (and whomever else had input) then, not back in the 60's.  
So whatever configuration, mutation, derivation, ejaculation you wish to make of the album - do it, fan mix and treasure your own little theories til they are worn and snug like an old, much loved cuddly toy - but no one, and i mean no one, not even Brian it seems, can definitively state what an original Smile album would have been or would not have been.  
So do whatever the heck you want with your own personal mixes - that's what it's all about anyway if you ask me - the audio equivalent of a Rubics Cube, only there isn't any right answer - every answer is right.
I think the main issue the hard asses here have a problem with is when opinions, or preferences are stated as fact.   Don't do that.  There are plenty of "facts" with Smile - but no definite answer - unless you are of the mind that 2004 is the definitive answer - which is your preference, but realize it may not be everyone's.  
These arguments are so stupid.  It's really not that difficult - mix and let mix, fanboys.  
and that's all the Potato has to say.  

THANK you. I'm in 100% agreement.

[Bean Bag]

Fan of the achievement in BWPS but not an especially big fan musically and it doesn't tell us much, if anything, imo about the historical SMiLE album.

I'm in the 12 track school because to me that is what the actual artifacts tell us. Much (much) less use of discarded H&V bits in album tracks, they would have stayed out of the album imo but some would have been on the B side of the H&V single when that was under consideration.

Yeah, BWPS is a fantastic mix and assemblage of the remaining debris.  Better than my attempts.  And far more legit.  Being a product of its creator, it thus includes many insights that we didn't have.

But what BWPS is, is an attempt to use as much of what existed and make it into a listenable collection.  The 12 track solution was not on the table because it was, A) impossible or too difficult to re-imagine the work to that level and, B) wouldn't do justice to all that was already done, which... C) is now sacred.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Fan of the achievement in BWPS but not an especially big fan musically and it doesn't tell us much, if anything, imo about the historical SMiLE album.

I'm in the 12 track school because to me that is what the actual artifacts tell us. Much (much) less use of discarded H&V bits in album tracks, they would have stayed out of the album imo but some would have been on the B side of the H&V single when that was under consideration.

Yeah, BWPS is a fantastic mix and assemblage of the remaining debris.  Better than my attempts.  And far more legit.  Being a product of its creator, it thus includes many insights that we didn't have.

But what BWPS is, is an attempt to use as much of what existed and make it into a listenable collection.  The 12 track solution was not on the table because it was, A) impossible or too difficult to re-imagine the work to that level and, B) wouldn't do justice to all that was already done, which... C) is now sacred.

Yeah, I think the key piece of info people forget is that BWPS was conceived as a live performance, not as an attempt to finish the LP. They didn't want to leave any of the well known pieces out, the knew they had to express "The Elements" in there somewhere. Hence, we got the third suite of random tracks from before now standing as elements and bits like Barnyard and Workshop passed off as finished tracks. It's beautiful in its own way, it's just as valid a Smile as any other version...it's just not THE SMiLE.

[Jim V.]

It's beautiful in its own way, it's just as valid a Smile as any other version...it's just not THE SMiLE.

It's just as valid as any other SMiLE, really? It's not like a billion times more valid than yours or mine, since you know, it was finished by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks? Come on man. Whether or not you like BWPS that is IT. Brian, in the liner notes, states that it's the finished SMiLE. Whatever you think of Brian and his capabilities in 2004, he deemed it finished, and I think he has much, much, much more room to assess that than any of us.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

It's beautiful in its own way, it's just as valid a Smile as any other version...it's just not THE SMiLE.

It's just as valid as any other SMiLE, really? It's not like a billion times more valid than yours or mine, since you know, it was finished by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks? Come on man. Whether or not you like BWPS that is IT. Brian, in the liner notes, states that it's the finished SMiLE. Whatever you think of Brian and his capabilities in 2004, he deemed it finished, and I think he has much, much, much more room to assess that than any of us.

Id like to direct you to the comment that's five posts above me.

Seriously, this sh!t's just comical at this point.   Like goshdarn, better pick your words carefully or one smug prick or another'll jump down your throat over semantics. Or over what songs you choose to leave out. Or anything else, really. God forbid I try to move the thread back on track from that prior ugliness. No, please, lets duke it out because I said BWPS is a valid SMiLE.

Well, ok. If you wanna go that route. Yeah, I think it's a valid SMiLE. No, I don't think it's a billion times more valid just because Brian was involved. I think it's a great body of music that the Brian of 67 started and the Brian of 03 revisited and pieced together in a way that pleased him at the time, and in the context of a live presentation rather than an LP. He played around with the material that was there, just like all of us making our own fanmixes. I don't believe for a second that a historical 1967 album wouldve been anything like BWPS in terms of structure. I've explained why in previous posts.

If you have a problem with this opinion of mine...again, refer to the Potatohead's comment.

[John Manning]

Mujan, every time you react to a perceived slight with an essay about how you're being bullied, you just pour oil on a fire that was almost out. If I were you I'd walk away and let the embers die.

Then this thread can get back on track.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Mujan, every time you react to a perceived slight with an essay about how you're being bullied, you just pour oil on a fire that was almost out. If I were you I'd walk away and let the embers die.

Then this thread can get back on track.

Or perhaps it'd be better to leave this forum altogether? Really just doesn't seem to be a good fit.

That being said, can you understand where I'm coming from? I'm literally just trying to add to a topic I'm interested in, just hoping to maybe present an alternate perspective on what SMiLE might've been. I see a comment that's pretty spot-on in it's own way, give my version of a "hey man, well said" and for no reason at all I get crapped on by Mikie yet again.

This person has been making it his prerogative to knock me ddown a peg or two at every opportunity he's been given. There's absolutely no reason for it at all that I can fathom except that I left GV off a damn fanmix. It's the most ridiculous overreaction I've ever seen and a huge reason why I initially stopped posting in the first place. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in calling him out on his behavior. I was happy to move on since I came back, let that sh!t go, and talk about SMiLE again in peace, but apparently he's still interested in looking for a fight after all this time. I don't know what I'm supposed to do since I can't block his posts; if someones gonna be obnoxious to me, sorry, but I'm gonna stand up for myself and call them on it.

Now granted, I may have been heavy handed with my reply to sweetdudejim. But to me, his comment was pretty uncalled for too. Aside from being rude for no reason except petty semantics and difference of opinion, it's just plain kicking a guy when he's down. I'm not trying to be a drama queen here, but it's this kinda stuff (and like I've said, it's been going on since I got here) that just kinda makes this whole board seem toxic. There's no reason at all for people to be this catty over personal opinions. I'm not a troll, I'm a genuine fan with some differences of opinion who has every right to come here and speak freely without being treated this way.

You make it out as if I'm going around begging for sympathy every time someone disagrees with my opinion or some stupid thing like that. Not so. I'm just pointing out that this board is, to put it bluntly, badly moderated. I'm just calling it as I see it. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to feel this way considering how Mikie and his kind are allowed to hound me at will and get away with it while I'm continuously made to be the bad guy for not putting up with it. I was openly mocked, and told I wasn't welcome here just for bumping some old threads that anyone not interested in could easily scroll past. I don't know if I just rub you guys the wrong way or if the culture of this board is just THAT bad, or what. But I don't think I deserve the hate I get for trying to post meaningful SMiLE-related posts on a forum about the Beach Boys.

I'm trying to be civil, but it's hard when you really put yourself out there posting mixes and opinions only to be called "useless" and told to go somewhere else, etc. With that in mind, can you really blame me for getting frustrated right now?

[Jukka]

Love it or hate it (I like it), BWPS is the finished Smile. We here often have the tendency to compare Brian to great classical composers. Well, it applies here better than anywhere. Many greats took years or decades to finish their masterworks. Jean Sibelius composed his 5th symphony, and then he decided to scrap it, reshuffle the parts, restructured it from four part symphony into three, and so on. Lost lots of great stuff, but then again on the whole made it better. And there were many years between the versions. So, Brian did kinda the same. Tried, failed, took a break (a long one, I admit) and finished it later according to his then-current vision. It's not like you have classical enthusiasts whining about "what-the-1916-version-of-5th-symphony-would-have-been"... And that's why I like it in here, not on their boards!

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Love it or hate it (I like it), BWPS is the finished Smile. We here often have the tendency to compare Brian to great classical composers. Well, it applies here better than anywhere. Many greats took years or decades to finish their masterworks. Jean Sibelius composed his 5th symphony, and then he decided to scrap it, reshuffle the parts, restructured it from four part symphony into three, and so on. Lost lots of great stuff, but then again on the whole made it better. And there were many years between the versions. So, Brian did kinda the same. Tried, failed, took a break (a long one, I admit) and finished it later according to his then-current vision. It's not like you have classical enthusiasts whining about "what-the-1916-version-of-5th-symphony-would-have-been"... And that's why I like it in here, not on their boards!

When you frame it in that context, it makes a lot of sense, and I can respect where you're coming from even if I don't personally agree. However, I still think there's a lot of merit and fun to be had discussing possiblities for that elusive "original vision(s) of 1966/7 whether you consider BWPS the final word or not. I wish more people were open to new ideas regarding SMiLE and what direction it might've been heading in back in the day.

[Jukka]

Oh, believe me, I'm as open as can be, and I'm loving all the speculations here. And I do think the three-part structure doesn't suit the material in a best possible way... But facts are facts, and we should respect Brian a little more in this case. The finished vision isn't the original vision, but it is Brian's vision. You don't have to like, just accept it!

As for comparing Brian to classical composers... Was he writing a symphony or a pop music 33 rpm LP? Two very different formats. Judging BWPS as an LP, it doesn't hang together that well. Judging it as three-part symphony, it's quite alright. In 1966, he was making an LP, I presume. The finished thing is a bit too grandiose in concept for it's own good, don't you think? Loses the songs as individual diamonds and concentrates a bit too much on being this great, finished whole. Just my two cents.

[John Manning]

Mujan, every time you react to a perceived slight with an essay about how you're being bullied, you just pour oil on a fire that was almost out. If I were you I'd walk away and let the embers die.

Then this thread can get back on track.

Or perhaps it'd be better to leave this forum altogether? Really just doesn't seem to be a good fit.

That being said, can you understand where I'm coming from? I'm literally just trying to add to a topic I'm interested in, just hoping to maybe present an alternate perspective on what SMiLE might've been. I see a comment that's pretty spot-on in it's own way, give my version of a "hey man, well said" and for no reason at all I get crapped on by Mikie yet again.

This person has been making it his prerogative to knock me ddown a peg or two at every opportunity he's been given. There's absolutely no reason for it at all that I can fathom except that I left GV off a damn fanmix. It's the most ridiculous overreaction I've ever seen and a huge reason why I initially stopped posting in the first place. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in calling him out on his behavior. I was happy to move on since I came back, let that sh!t go, and talk about SMiLE again in peace, but apparently he's still interested in looking for a fight after all this time. I don't know what I'm supposed to do since I can't block his posts; if someones gonna be obnoxious to me, sorry, but I'm gonna stand up for myself and call them on it.

Now granted, I may have been heavy handed with my reply to sweetdudejim. But to me, his comment was pretty uncalled for too. Aside from being rude for no reason except petty semantics and difference of opinion, it's just plain kicking a guy when he's down. I'm not trying to be a drama queen here, but it's this kinda stuff (and like I've said, it's been going on since I got here) that just kinda makes this whole board seem toxic. There's no reason at all for people to be this catty over personal opinions. I'm not a troll, I'm a genuine fan with some differences of opinion who has every right to come here and speak freely without being treated this way.

You make it out as if I'm going around begging for sympathy every time someone disagrees with my opinion or some stupid thing like that. Not so. I'm just pointing out that this board is, to put it bluntly, badly moderated. I'm just calling it as I see it. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to feel this way considering how Mikie and his kind are allowed to hound me at will and get away with it while I'm continuously made to be the bad guy for not putting up with it. I was openly mocked, and told I wasn't welcome here just for bumping some old threads that anyone not interested in could easily scroll past. I don't know if I just rub you guys the wrong way or if the culture of this board is just THAT bad, or what. But I don't think I deserve the hate I get for trying to post meaningful SMiLE-related posts on a forum about the Beach Boys.

I'm trying to be civil, but it's hard when you really put yourself out there posting mixes and opinions only to be called "useless" and told to go somewhere else, etc. With that in mind, can you really blame me for getting frustrated right now?

Mujan, every time you react … with an essay … you just pour oil on a fire that was almost out.