Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

This is all just speculation on my part. I've read a lot about SMiLE, but I think a lot of that knowledge is circulatory and becomes like an echo chamber. I think we ought to take a fresh look at this, starting with what was recorded during late '66 to early '68.

A wise concept. Instead of theorising about what might be, go back to what is, and proceed from there.

Exactly. I see no evidence for 3 suites. I see no evidence for this "Bicycle Rider's grand journey across America" or "the whole album is H&V" or "Good Vibes was always the fifth element--love/aether/whatever."

I do see a body of work with two central themes--America and life/love. I think we can all agree H&V, Worms, and Cabin Essence were cut from the same cloth. Wonderful, Look, Child and Surf's Up all fit together really well. Once we accept the fact the Elements and Barnyard suites were working ideas never finished (and that the Elements was not, and was never originally intended to be a 4 track suite of its own) we can place the remaining tracks like Veggies and Chimes on the side they'd fit best. I personally think Veggies was meant to represent American agriculture, not Earth and that Wind Chimes works as a song about the anticipation of death, not Air for example.

It's possible Brian was just stoned and having fun recording Psychedelic Sounds. But the fact that he brought Hal into it for the fight, used other session musicians for George Fell, and used the Boys for his weirder Smiley ideas (laughing during Little Pad, Tape sped up, etc) there seems to be some legitimacy to these sessions.

Obviously I could be way off base here. But I think if you ignore the contradicting Brian/VDP/Beach Boys/Carol Kay interviews and fan/Priore speculation...and just look at what was recorded and let that speak for itself, I think a two suite structure with various "comedy" skits linking at least some of the tracks together seems to make sense.

If nothing else, maybe just the two major (as in, recorded with professionals and included on TSS) skits would be on there, and intro the two big closers on each side--Veggies and Surf's Up?

[silodweller]

I much prefer listening to it track for track, no cross-fades, nothing...  just as a twelve or however much track album.  In actual fact, I still like going back to my "30 years of The Beach Boys" box set and listening to those individual tracks. 

[Cam Mott]

Fan of the achievement in BWPS but not an especially big fan musically and it doesn't tell us much, if anything, imo about the historical SMiLE album.

I'm in the 12 track school because to me that is what the actual artifacts tell us. Much (much) less use of discarded H&V bits in album tracks, they would have stayed out of the album imo but some would have been on the B side of the H&V single when that was under consideration.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I do see a body of work with two central themes--America and life/love. I think we can all agree H&V, Worms, and Cabin Essence were cut from the same cloth. Wonderful, Look, Child and Surf's Up all fit together really well. Once we accept the fact the Elements and Barnyard suites were working ideas never finished (and that the Elements was not, and was never originally intended to be a 4 track suite of its own) we can place the remaining tracks like Veggies and Chimes on the side they'd fit best. I personally think Veggies was meant to represent American agriculture, not Earth and that Wind Chimes works as a song about the anticipation of death, not Air for example.

It's possible Brian was just stoned and having fun recording Psychedelic Sounds. But the fact that he brought Hal into it for the fight, used other session musicians for George Fell, and used the Boys for his weirder Smiley ideas (laughing during Little Pad, Tape sped up, etc) there seems to be some legitimacy to these sessions.

Obviously I could be way off base here. But I think if you ignore the contradicting Brian/VDP/Beach Boys/Carol Kay interviews and fan/Priore speculation...and just look at what was recorded and let that speak for itself, I think a two suite structure with various "comedy" skits linking at least some of the tracks together seems to make sense.

If nothing else, maybe just the two major (as in, recorded with professionals and included on TSS) skits would be on there, and intro the two big closers on each side--Veggies and Surf's Up?

I'm agreeing with a lot of your writing. Would you share the sequencing on your personal SMiLE mix? I'm curious...

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I do see a body of work with two central themes--America and life/love. I think we can all agree H&V, Worms, and Cabin Essence were cut from the same cloth. Wonderful, Look, Child and Surf's Up all fit together really well. Once we accept the fact the Elements and Barnyard suites were working ideas never finished (and that the Elements was not, and was never originally intended to be a 4 track suite of its own) we can place the remaining tracks like Veggies and Chimes on the side they'd fit best. I personally think Veggies was meant to represent American agriculture, not Earth and that Wind Chimes works as a song about the anticipation of death, not Air for example.

It's possible Brian was just stoned and having fun recording Psychedelic Sounds. But the fact that he brought Hal into it for the fight, used other session musicians for George Fell, and used the Boys for his weirder Smiley ideas (laughing during Little Pad, Tape sped up, etc) there seems to be some legitimacy to these sessions.

Obviously I could be way off base here. But I think if you ignore the contradicting Brian/VDP/Beach Boys/Carol Kay interviews and fan/Priore speculation...and just look at what was recorded and let that speak for itself, I think a two suite structure with various "comedy" skits linking at least some of the tracks together seems to make sense.

If nothing else, maybe just the two major (as in, recorded with professionals and included on TSS) skits would be on there, and intro the two big closers on each side--Veggies and Surf's Up?

I'm agreeing with a lot of your writing. Would you share the sequencing on your personal SMiLE mix? I'm curious...

Thank you. Check out the link in my signature to hear it yourself.

AMERICANA
(You're Welcome)
H&V Part 1
Cabin Essence
Worms
Fire
Veggies
H&V Part 2 (the Bicycle Rider chorus only appears in this part so as not to diminish the impact of it in Worms, and instead serves as a reprise)

CYCLE OF LIFE
Dumb Angel [Prayer and Holidays paired up]
Wind Chimes
CIFOTM
Wonderful
Second Day [Dada and Cool Water paired up]
Surf's Up

I used some Smiley bits, some Psychedelic Sounds bits and as much of the original session material as possible without screwing up the flow. He Gives Speeches and With Me Tonight are H&V sections, Look is 'part two' of Wonderful, etc. The only major exclusions are Good Vibes, the throwback tunes (Old Master Painter, I wanna be around, gee) and Carl and Dennis' tracks.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I do see a body of work with two central themes--America and life/love. I think we can all agree H&V, Worms, and Cabin Essence were cut from the same cloth. Wonderful, Look, Child and Surf's Up all fit together really well. Once we accept the fact the Elements and Barnyard suites were working ideas never finished (and that the Elements was not, and was never originally intended to be a 4 track suite of its own) we can place the remaining tracks like Veggies and Chimes on the side they'd fit best. I personally think Veggies was meant to represent American agriculture, not Earth and that Wind Chimes works as a song about the anticipation of death, not Air for example.

It's possible Brian was just stoned and having fun recording Psychedelic Sounds. But the fact that he brought Hal into it for the fight, used other session musicians for George Fell, and used the Boys for his weirder Smiley ideas (laughing during Little Pad, Tape sped up, etc) there seems to be some legitimacy to these sessions.

Obviously I could be way off base here. But I think if you ignore the contradicting Brian/VDP/Beach Boys/Carol Kay interviews and fan/Priore speculation...and just look at what was recorded and let that speak for itself, I think a two suite structure with various "comedy" skits linking at least some of the tracks together seems to make sense.

If nothing else, maybe just the two major (as in, recorded with professionals and included on TSS) skits would be on there, and intro the two big closers on each side--Veggies and Surf's Up?

I'm agreeing with a lot of your writing. Would you share the sequencing on your personal SMiLE mix? I'm curious...

Thank you. Check out the link in my signature to hear it yourself.

AMERICANA
(You're Welcome)
H&V Part 1
Cabin Essence
Worms
Fire
Veggies
H&V Part 2 (the Bicycle Rider chorus only appears in this part so as not to diminish the impact of it in Worms, and instead serves as a reprise)

CYCLE OF LIFE
Dumb Angel [Prayer and Holidays paired up]
Wind Chimes
CIFOTM
Wonderful
Second Day [Dada and Cool Water paired up]
Surf's Up

I used some Smiley bits, some Psychedelic Sounds bits and as much of the original session material as possible without screwing up the flow. He Gives Speeches and With Me Tonight are H&V sections, Look is 'part two' of Wonderful, etc. The only major exclusions are Good Vibes, the throwback tunes (Old Master Painter, I wanna be around, gee) and Carl and Dennis' tracks.

Sounds good! Very interesting. I'm certainly not questioning the sequence, but I am curious why you placed "Worms" where you did, and why you excluded "The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine". Also, does "Look" fade out?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I do see a body of work with two central themes--America and life/love. I think we can all agree H&V, Worms, and Cabin Essence were cut from the same cloth. Wonderful, Look, Child and Surf's Up all fit together really well. Once we accept the fact the Elements and Barnyard suites were working ideas never finished (and that the Elements was not, and was never originally intended to be a 4 track suite of its own) we can place the remaining tracks like Veggies and Chimes on the side they'd fit best. I personally think Veggies was meant to represent American agriculture, not Earth and that Wind Chimes works as a song about the anticipation of death, not Air for example.

It's possible Brian was just stoned and having fun recording Psychedelic Sounds. But the fact that he brought Hal into it for the fight, used other session musicians for George Fell, and used the Boys for his weirder Smiley ideas (laughing during Little Pad, Tape sped up, etc) there seems to be some legitimacy to these sessions.

Obviously I could be way off base here. But I think if you ignore the contradicting Brian/VDP/Beach Boys/Carol Kay interviews and fan/Priore speculation...and just look at what was recorded and let that speak for itself, I think a two suite structure with various "comedy" skits linking at least some of the tracks together seems to make sense.

If nothing else, maybe just the two major (as in, recorded with professionals and included on TSS) skits would be on there, and intro the two big closers on each side--Veggies and Surf's Up?

I'm agreeing with a lot of your writing. Would you share the sequencing on your personal SMiLE mix? I'm curious...

Thank you. Check out the link in my signature to hear it yourself.

AMERICANA
(You're Welcome)
H&V Part 1
Cabin Essence
Worms
Fire
Veggies
H&V Part 2 (the Bicycle Rider chorus only appears in this part so as not to diminish the impact of it in Worms, and instead serves as a reprise)

CYCLE OF LIFE
Dumb Angel [Prayer and Holidays paired up]
Wind Chimes
CIFOTM
Wonderful
Second Day [Dada and Cool Water paired up]
Surf's Up

I used some Smiley bits, some Psychedelic Sounds bits and as much of the original session material as possible without screwing up the flow. He Gives Speeches and With Me Tonight are H&V sections, Look is 'part two' of Wonderful, etc. The only major exclusions are Good Vibes, the throwback tunes (Old Master Painter, I wanna be around, gee) and Carl and Dennis' tracks.

Sounds good! Very interesting. I'm certainly not questioning the sequence, but I am curious why you placed "Worms" where you did, and why you excluded "The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine". Also, does "Look" fade out?

Thanks again. I put CE after H&V because I used the fade with train whistles which set up the "who ran the iron horse" lyrics well. I think the fade of Worms fit well into the Bag of Tricks opening I used for Fire. I excluded Gee/Around/Sunshine because in my opinion they are the weakest pieces of music, they don't fit because they werent written by Brian and Van, and they bring the album to a halt anywhere you put them. Look doesn't fade--it's buttended to the piano bit from CCW Version 2.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I do see a body of work with two central themes--America and life/love. I think we can all agree H&V, Worms, and Cabin Essence were cut from the same cloth. Wonderful, Look, Child and Surf's Up all fit together really well. Once we accept the fact the Elements and Barnyard suites were working ideas never finished (and that the Elements was not, and was never originally intended to be a 4 track suite of its own) we can place the remaining tracks like Veggies and Chimes on the side they'd fit best. I personally think Veggies was meant to represent American agriculture, not Earth and that Wind Chimes works as a song about the anticipation of death, not Air for example.

It's possible Brian was just stoned and having fun recording Psychedelic Sounds. But the fact that he brought Hal into it for the fight, used other session musicians for George Fell, and used the Boys for his weirder Smiley ideas (laughing during Little Pad, Tape sped up, etc) there seems to be some legitimacy to these sessions.

Obviously I could be way off base here. But I think if you ignore the contradicting Brian/VDP/Beach Boys/Carol Kay interviews and fan/Priore speculation...and just look at what was recorded and let that speak for itself, I think a two suite structure with various "comedy" skits linking at least some of the tracks together seems to make sense.

If nothing else, maybe just the two major (as in, recorded with professionals and included on TSS) skits would be on there, and intro the two big closers on each side--Veggies and Surf's Up?

I'm agreeing with a lot of your writing. Would you share the sequencing on your personal SMiLE mix? I'm curious...

Thank you. Check out the link in my signature to hear it yourself.

AMERICANA
(You're Welcome)
H&V Part 1
Cabin Essence
Worms
Fire
Veggies
H&V Part 2 (the Bicycle Rider chorus only appears in this part so as not to diminish the impact of it in Worms, and instead serves as a reprise)

CYCLE OF LIFE
Dumb Angel [Prayer and Holidays paired up]
Wind Chimes
CIFOTM
Wonderful
Second Day [Dada and Cool Water paired up]
Surf's Up

I used some Smiley bits, some Psychedelic Sounds bits and as much of the original session material as possible without screwing up the flow. He Gives Speeches and With Me Tonight are H&V sections, Look is 'part two' of Wonderful, etc. The only major exclusions are Good Vibes, the throwback tunes (Old Master Painter, I wanna be around, gee) and Carl and Dennis' tracks.

Sounds good! Very interesting. I'm certainly not questioning the sequence, but I am curious why you placed "Worms" where you did, and why you excluded "The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine". Also, does "Look" fade out?

Thanks again. I put CE after H&V because I used the fade with train whistles which set up the "who ran the iron horse" lyrics well. I think the fade of Worms fit well into the Bag of Tricks opening I used for Fire. I excluded Gee/Around/Sunshine because in my opinion they are the weakest pieces of music, they don't fit because they werent written by Brian and Van, and they bring the album to a halt anywhere you put them. Look doesn't fade--it's buttended to the piano bit from CCW Version 2.

OK. Thanks. I'll catch it on YouTube...

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I do see a body of work with two central themes--America and life/love. I think we can all agree H&V, Worms, and Cabin Essence were cut from the same cloth. Wonderful, Look, Child and Surf's Up all fit together really well. Once we accept the fact the Elements and Barnyard suites were working ideas never finished (and that the Elements was not, and was never originally intended to be a 4 track suite of its own) we can place the remaining tracks like Veggies and Chimes on the side they'd fit best. I personally think Veggies was meant to represent American agriculture, not Earth and that Wind Chimes works as a song about the anticipation of death, not Air for example.

It's possible Brian was just stoned and having fun recording Psychedelic Sounds. But the fact that he brought Hal into it for the fight, used other session musicians for George Fell, and used the Boys for his weirder Smiley ideas (laughing during Little Pad, Tape sped up, etc) there seems to be some legitimacy to these sessions.

Obviously I could be way off base here. But I think if you ignore the contradicting Brian/VDP/Beach Boys/Carol Kay interviews and fan/Priore speculation...and just look at what was recorded and let that speak for itself, I think a two suite structure with various "comedy" skits linking at least some of the tracks together seems to make sense.

If nothing else, maybe just the two major (as in, recorded with professionals and included on TSS) skits would be on there, and intro the two big closers on each side--Veggies and Surf's Up?

I'm agreeing with a lot of your writing. Would you share the sequencing on your personal SMiLE mix? I'm curious...

Thank you. Check out the link in my signature to hear it yourself.

AMERICANA
(You're Welcome)
H&V Part 1
Cabin Essence
Worms
Fire
Veggies
H&V Part 2 (the Bicycle Rider chorus only appears in this part so as not to diminish the impact of it in Worms, and instead serves as a reprise)

CYCLE OF LIFE
Dumb Angel [Prayer and Holidays paired up]
Wind Chimes
CIFOTM
Wonderful
Second Day [Dada and Cool Water paired up]
Surf's Up

I used some Smiley bits, some Psychedelic Sounds bits and as much of the original session material as possible without screwing up the flow. He Gives Speeches and With Me Tonight are H&V sections, Look is 'part two' of Wonderful, etc. The only major exclusions are Good Vibes, the throwback tunes (Old Master Painter, I wanna be around, gee) and Carl and Dennis' tracks.

Sounds good! Very interesting. I'm certainly not questioning the sequence, but I am curious why you placed "Worms" where you did, and why you excluded "The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine". Also, does "Look" fade out?

Thanks again. I put CE after H&V because I used the fade with train whistles which set up the "who ran the iron horse" lyrics well. I think the fade of Worms fit well into the Bag of Tricks opening I used for Fire. I excluded Gee/Around/Sunshine because in my opinion they are the weakest pieces of music, they don't fit because they werent written by Brian and Van, and they bring the album to a halt anywhere you put them. Look doesn't fade--it's buttended to the piano bit from CCW Version 2.

OK. Thanks. I'll catch it on YouTube...

Hope you dig it. Downloads are in the video description

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Fan of the achievement in BWPS but not an especially big fan musically and it doesn't tell us much, if anything, imo about the historical SMiLE album.

I'm in the 12 track school because to me that is what the actual artifacts tell us. Much (much) less use of discarded H&V bits in album tracks, they would have stayed out of the album imo but some would have been on the B side of the H&V single when that was under consideration.

I agree.

I used H&V Part 2, Mrs. O'Leary's Cow and Second Day as standalone tracks in place of Old Master Painter, The Elements, and I'm in Great Shape from the infamous January (or was it December?) List. This was for various personal reasons--there's more than enough H&V material for two tracks, Fire and Dada/Cool Water as we know them today have become standalone tracks rather than one minute instrumental pieces of a whole. Meanwhile, OMP, IIGS and The Elements are more or less essentially one minute fragments each.

HOWEVER, for a historical SMiLE--that is, what I believe the general outline probably was in December '66 just before all concept of the album was more or less sacrificed for the sake of a single--I agree.

I think the trouble came when the Elements suite had to come together in December. Where do you put it, which side does it fit in, what the hell has to get cut or moved to make room?

Maybe here Brian grows unsure and losses confidence. VDP was unsupportive during the recent Psych Sounds Skits (from here on in, I'm referring to these as PSS) and wasn't there for Fire. He has quit, for the first time. Now, alone, Brian has to come up with something for Earth, Air and Water.

With pressure mounting from Capitol, the Band, everything else and the irrational fear of fire and Phil bearing down...it's hard to get inspired already, let alone with no collaborator. Maybe it's at this point that Element suite is abandoned. But how to fill that gaping void in the lineup?

Maybe he had thoughts of splitting it up--but how? At this point Dada is a H&V segment, Fire is a one-minute feel (that's meaningless on its own) and the other two are unwritten. This would also ruin anykind of spoken word humor between or during the songs.

Perhaps the H&V reworkings were part of an attempt to use the best pieces from other songs to gut those originals and make room for The Elements in some new place, or flesh out the bits he had (Fire--now Mrs OLeary's Cow as an Americana track & Dada--the reworked All Day) and make them standalone tracks.

Pure speculation: What if Great Shape (aka the Barnyard Suite)  was also a four-part, 1 minute each, medley? What if the disintegration of The Elements then made that track utterly pointless?

You can see the domino affect take hold. That stall in creative insight and subsequent lull in productivity couldve ruined the album. VDP returns, sees the initial cathartic spark was gone and the blueprint in shambles, and leaves to do his solo album.

The Elements killed the original album and imo is the scourge of SMiLE Mixers. SMiLE as it wouldve been is unattainable because this one track was never fully thought-out. Trying to hamfist four (essentially random) songs into an Elements suit is NOT doing justice to what the original SMiLE most probably wouldve been. Trying to crossfade 4 random instrumental bits into a 'The Elements' track is a fool's errand because 3 of them were never written or finished and declared by Brian. I'd argue the Barnyard/IIGS medley was fully thought out but perhaps not fully realized. Even then, it's an injustice to the original intent (whatever that was) to pass off Barnyard, Great Shape, Sunshine and IWBA as we know them today as individual, standalone tracks.

VDP isn't lying when he says SMiLE is 12 tracks because it was (more or less) in Dec '66 when he last knew what SMiLE was. Brian wasn't lying when he said 3 suites in '81 because he was always unsure how to do it on one two-sided vinyl, but he always wanted to express those themes of America/Life and the Elements. Darian isn't lying when he says the 2003 sequence was mostly Brian's idea, because when Brian was told he wasn't doing an LP but a live show, he was free of the restraints of the vinyl medium that had come to be incompatible with his ever-evolving vision.

TL;DR: The Grandplan of 1966 involved 2 side long suites of related tracks with IIGS and The Elements as four-part suites on the Americana and Life sides, respectively. When Elements failed to materialize it through everything out of place and derailed the album indefinitely. Brian was able to "finish" it in 2004 cause by then the concept could be reworked into 3 suites. I "finished" SMiLE because I was free to ignore the elements and GS suites and just use the sessions and PSS wherever I thought they worked. I hope this proves to be my definitive, final word on the subject. Can't promise I won't change my mind *again* someday, tho.  

Edit: For what it's worth...and this also is pure speculation...when it comes to PSS and their place in SMiLE, I think ideas like the barroom brawl, Taxi Cabber and the Garden Fight wouldve populated the Americana side. I think that's where the journey across America would come in. But this isn't some grandiose heroes journey, it's a couple stoners on a road trip. That'd be the set-up for the humor in this album. Maybe at some point (after Veggies) it switches to the Vegetable Chants and swimming chants.

For the Life side, I think the PSS stuff would focus on living well. Like in the Smog Tapes. Some of that, maybe the falling sinto instruments pieces, the breathing and laughing parts too.

I think the more "atmosphere building/freakout inducing" parts like Ocean Floor and Basketball Sounds were possible candidates for overlays on top of existing tracks. Just a series of thoughts.

[Phoenix]

Separate tracks.  No question
What tracks?  The handwritten tracklist that was printed on the album slicks, using the SONGS as they were intended to be assembled, NOT just the SECTIONS that shared some of their names.

(Our Prayer - hidden "intro to the album")
Heroes And Villains (intro/Cantina version through tape explosion/single version from first chorus/ending bits I can't remember the names of)
Do You Like Worms (with discarded vocal line)
The Old Master Painter (Barnyard/TOMP/Barnshine fade)
Wonderful
Child Is Father Of The Man (includes both Look and CIFTTM)
Cabinessence

(You're Welcome - depending on my mood)
Good Vibrations
I'm In Great Shape (IIGS/I Wanna Be around/Workshop)
Vega-Tables
Wind Chimes
The Elements (Mrs O'Leary's Cow - the intro/Air/Earth/Water)*
Surf's Up (sung by Brian without Reilly's lyrics/Al's vocal at the end)


That's how it was conceived, that's how it was almost produced, and that's how I prefer to hear it.  And I swear, one of these days (if I ever manage to get my life back in order), I'll finish and share my own personal mix.  I promise.



* I have no idea what Brian intended for "The Elements", other than what I parenthetically listed above, nor do I know the order beyond MOC coming first.  The Smile set I'm SLOWLY assembling mix I'm working on includes (whichever version I'll eventually choose as) my preferred mix of what was contemporarily available on disc one, as well as two or three other plausible/possible  assemblies on the second disc, which will also include alternate versions of other songs, the "one million units" promo, original versions of the covers, and "finished" versions of the vocal-less songs, using portions of BWPS.  ...One day.

[Andrew G. Doe]

That's how it was conceived, that's how it was almost produced...

I would really love to see your documentary proof for this unequivocal statement. The back slick list wasn't in Brian's handwriting, nor was it in any order... but you say you know the track sequence. How ?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Separate tracks.  No question
What tracks?  The handwritten tracklist that was printed on the album slicks, using the SONGS as they were intended to be assembled, NOT just the SECTIONS that shared some of their names.

(Our Prayer - hidden "intro to the album")
Heroes And Villains (intro/Cantina version through tape explosion/single version from first chorus/ending bits I can't remember the names of)
Do You Like Worms (with discarded vocal line)
The Old Master Painter (Barnyard/TOMP/Barnshine fade)
Wonderful
Child Is Father Of The Man (includes both Look and CIFTTM)
Cabinessence

(You're Welcome - depending on my mood)
Good Vibrations
I'm In Great Shape (IIGS/I Wanna Be around/Workshop)
Vega-Tables
Wind Chimes
The Elements (Mrs O'Leary's Cow - the intro/Air/Earth/Water)*
Surf's Up (sung by Brian without Reilly's lyrics/Al's vocal at the end)


That's how it was conceived, that's how it was almost produced, and that's how I prefer to hear it.  And I swear, one of these days (if I ever manage to get my life back in order), I'll finish and share my own personal mix.  I promise.



* I have no idea what Brian intended for "The Elements", other than what I parenthetically listed above, nor do I know the order beyond MOC coming first.  The Smile set I'm SLOWLY assembling mix I'm working on includes (whichever version I'll eventually choose as) my preferred mix of what was contemporarily available on disc one, as well as two or three other plausible/possible  assemblies on the second disc, which will also include alternate versions of other songs, the "one million units" promo, original versions of the covers, and "finished" versions of the vocal-less songs, using portions of BWPS.  ...One day.

Eh. See, this is what I don't understand. Why is everyone so dead-set on this elements suite/side? There was initially one single track called "the elements" that was never properly assembled, much less written. Where and why did this whole Elements suite come into the SMiLE cannon? Why this obsession with putting Chimes and Veggies together? They sound nothing alike, it's such a jarring transition (as is Chimes into Cow.) You shoehorned a song about Children and loss of innocence into the Americana songs and tacked Surf's Up on at the end of these "element songs" that have nothing to do with it. To each his own, of course, but I resent the way you offer a pretty unoriginal sequence and claim this is the way it was always supposed to go.

I just don't see it, and this illustrates why I called "The Elements" the scourge of SMiLE Mixers. It's so overemphasized, we waste so much time trying to hamfist unrelated bits together because of half-assed 'well this sounds like air to me' type reasoning instead of being imaginative with the material. The Elements is a red herring. Just put the pieces you want to use in places where they sound good.

[leggo of my ego]

When I listen to this I approach it as I would as a symphonic piece. Sweet spot on the sofa, ample volume, kick back and shut my eyes for critical listening, no distractions (hopefully)

Smile is a great aural experience treated in this fashion, try it.

[Gabo]

I hate BWPS. Separate tracks all the way.

This is my favorite sequence:

Our Prayer (Smile Sessions)
Heroes and Villains (Smiley Smile single)
Cabin Essence (Smile Sessions)
Wind Chimes (Good Vibrations Box Set)
The Elements: Fire (Smile Sessions

Good Vibrations (Smiley Smile single)
Wonderful (Smile Sessions)
Do You Like Worms? (Smile Sessions)
Vega-Tables (Smile Sessions)
Surf's Up (Smile Sessions)

Only ten tracks, but gets the job done and excludes all the unfinished filler cuts (Look, etc.)

[Bean Bag]

Twelve Tracks.

While recording Our Prayer, Brian says it:  It's not a track.  It's an intro to the album.  We don't want to think of it as a track.  That's all I need to know.  Brian simply had something else in mind -- NOT what he ultimately settled on in 2004.  There's no debate about it.


Think of it this way...
Had Good Vibrations NOT been finished in 1966, and all we had were all the wonderful, inventive session tapes -- would we be discussing if Good Vibes was meant to be 3, 4 or 6 different songs?!?  No.  No.  NO.  I mean it could be... but it clearly wasn't supposed to be.  It's one song.  And I don't think ANY of us could have put together GV -- as it is -- from all those spectacular pieces the way Brian did.

So yes, SMiLE is twelve tracks.  And I believe the basic bulk of it is right there on all those unfinished working tapes.  And there would have been A LOT of sniping and cutting and editing (and re-recording) to make all the pieces fit and work.  Just like how Good Vibes works, SMiLE too was meant to work.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Twelve Tracks.

While recording Our Prayer, Brian says it:  It's not a track.  It's an intro to the album.  We don't want to think of it as a track.  That's all I need to know.  Brian simply had something else in mind -- NOT what he ultimately settled on in 2004.  There's no debate about it.


Think of it this way...
Had Good Vibrations NOT been finished in 1966, and all we had were all the wonderful, inventive session tapes -- would we be discussing if Good Vibes was meant to be 3, 4 or 6 different songs?!?  No.  No.  NO.  I mean it could be... but it clearly wasn't supposed to be.  It's one song.  And I don't think ANY of us could have put together GV -- as it is -- from all those spectacular pieces the way Brian did.

So yes, SMiLE is twelve tracks.  And I believe the basic bulk of it is right there on all those unfinished working tapes.  And there would have been A LOT of sniping and cutting and editing (and re-recording) to make all the pieces fit and work.  Just like how Good Vibes works, SMiLE too was meant to work.

Best post in the thread, right here.

[soniclovenoize]

12 Tracks. 

[Phoenix]

That's how it was conceived, that's how it was almost produced...

I would really love to see your documentary proof for this unequivocal statement. The back slick list wasn't in Brian's handwriting, nor was it in any order... but you say you know the track sequence. How ?

OK.  Bear with me, as I'm not trying to be snarky at all.  Obviously there's no way I could know the way things REALLY went down without being there but there's a lot of stuff that when looked at realistically, just makes "too much sense" to be wrong.  Regardless of the handwriting, that list was either dictated or authorized by Brian to be sent to Capitol, for them to use as the OFFICIAL list of songs for their new album.  Things fell apart, Brian didn't finish the album, and it was scrapped but that doesn't change the fact that those 12 songs (plus "Our Prayer" and any other "hidden tracks" he may have also included) were what Brian intended to put on the upcoming album.  I'll get to the running order shortly but there's far more concrete evidence (mainly the slicks) saying "those were the songs Brian intended for Smile in early 1967, with the album's release looming" than anything proving they weren't.  

(Our Prayer - hidden "intro to the album")
Heroes And Villains (intro/Cantina version through tape explosion/single version from first chorus/ending bits I can't remember the names of)
Do You Like Worms (with discarded vocal line)
The Old Master Painter (Barnyard/TOMP/Barnshine fade)
Wonderful
Child Is Father Of The Man (includes both Look and CIFTTM)
Cabinessence

(You're Welcome - depending on my mood)
Good Vibrations
I'm In Great Shape (IIGS/I Wanna Be around/Workshop)
Vega-Tables
Wind Chimes
The Elements (Mrs O'Leary's Cow - the intro/Air/Earth/Water)*
Surf's Up (sung by Brian without Reilly's lyrics/Al's vocal at the end)

* I have no idea what Brian intended for "The Elements", other than what I parenthetically listed above, nor do I know the order beyond MOC coming first. 

Eh. See, this is what I don't understand. Why is everyone so dead-set on this elements suite/side? There was initially one single track called "the elements" that was never properly assembled, much less written. Where and why did this whole Elements suite come into the SMiLE cannon? Why this obsession with putting Chimes and Veggies together? They sound nothing alike, it's such a jarring transition (as is Chimes into Cow.) You shoehorned a song about Children and loss of innocence into the Americana songs and tacked Surf's Up on at the end of these "element songs" that have nothing to do with it. To each his own, of course, but I resent the way you offer a pretty unoriginal sequence and claim this is the way it was always supposed to go.

I just don't see it, and this illustrates why I called "The Elements" the scourge of SMiLE Mixers. It's so overemphasized, we waste so much time trying to hamfist unrelated bits together because of half-assed 'well this sounds like air to me' type reasoning instead of being imaginative with the material. The Elements is a red herring. Just put the pieces you want to use in places where they sound good.

As I highlighted above, I agree with what I believe is most of what you do.  I see "The Elements" as a single song, comprised of four section, of which only one was completed.  We know "Fire (MOC)" was "'The Elements' part one" but most evidence suggest that at best, Brian never told anyone what he intended for the other parts and at worst, never even got around to composing them.  I don't think of "Wind Chimes" and "Vega-Tables" as neither part of "The Elements" (song) or an elements suite.  Where I think our opinions differ is I don't think there were ANY suites, Americana, loss/innocence, or anything.  Sure there were themes Brian and Van Dyke were exploring here and there but I don't think those themes dictated the album's order order in any overwhelming way.  Like "Sloop John B" and the title track's placement on Pet Sounds, I think Brian's personal preference was what mattered most in that regard.

As for the running order, it's my belief that BWPS came out the way it did because despite the suggestions from Darian that were used, having Van Dyke "finish" the rest of the songs, and using the alternate lyrics for "Good Vibrations" to give us another "new" song, much of it was VERY close to as Brian intended.  Some of the songs flow "too good" to not be what top-of-his-game Brian had intended all along.  For example, BWPS had "Vega-Tables" follow "Workshop" and the Purple Chick version showed us that the intro percussion of the one fit PERFECTLY behind the sound effects of the other.  Why did I ALSO put "Wind Chimes" next in my version?  Because I honestly believe that's probably where Brian intended it to go (and more importantly, because I can't think of any place that sounds better).

When the album was scrapped in '67, I believe it was VERY close to being done.  All that was missing were finished vocals (in some cases just leads) for "DYLW", "Surf's Up", "CIFOTM", "TOMP", "IIGS", and Cabinessence"; completed lyrics for "CIFOT" (probably) and "DYLW" (possibly); recording, assembling, and/or composing the rest of "The Elements", possibly the backing track for the second half of "Surf's Up", and the big one, which is what I strongly feel is what "killed" Smile: edits of "Heroes And Villains" and "Vega-Tables" that Brian was happy with.  Mike (and/or others) may not have liked some of the material but as pointed out, they brought it when asked.  I feel the modular recording method got the better of Brian (probably in part because of drugs and/or mental illness) and he finally just had to give up on trying to figure out the "right" way the pieces fit, just to save himself.  Truth be told, Derek Taylor probably saw this first hand and accepted it before Brian, which led to the scrapped while still recording time table.  ("Another week and he's starting over AGAIN?  I'm sorry, guys.  I'm pulling the plug.")

So 2004 rolls around and Brian and his team decide to finish it but he's no further along than he was in 1967.  Step one: Darian assembles "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and Brian approves.  Next, Van Dyke finishes (or unearths) the lyrics.   Finally, they record the whole thing.  At some point Brian decides that "The Elements" (song) just isn't worth the effort it will take to finish it so he rejigs "Fire" and makes it its own song.  Beyond that, the main difference between my version and the 2004 release is them designating each unreleased fragment of music with its own name.  Compared to the old slicks, this made it look like it included all sorts of "extra songs" but by then, lots of people knew the names of the pieces and the link tracks legend had grown so much, a bunch of little tracks seemed more, I don't know...eccentric? and marketable so that's what we got.  The important thing was Brian was anywhere from OK to completely satisfied with the music came together.

Everyone knows the three movements was a post-2000 idea and like many people, I agree that it was done mainly to give cohesion to the third, unfinished "movement".  Because while the Americana one works pretty good.  What does "Cabinessence" REALLY have to do with childhood or whatever that one's supposed to be?  Don't get me wrong.  I love BWPS for what it is and all those involved really did a great job of making a complete album from where Brian had left off but I think much of it getting finished had to do with Brian saying things like "Those edits work great, Darian.  What other ideas do you have?" and "While you're here, Van Dyke, why don't you go a head and put lyrics to these other pieces too?"  

Like I said, I think Brian was almost there.  All I did was create a different edit for "H&V" (which I really believe was the intended edit for at least a small window in time in 1966/67), and assemble a versions of "The Elements" which is probably no closer to what Brian had in mind than anyone else could guess but also no worse than anyone else could make using only the material available.

There's one other wrinkle I didn't cover but I'll leave that for someone else to bring up because this post is already FAR too long.

And for the record, I immediately regretted not including a "YMMV" at the end of my original post so feel free to use this one for both.

[Phoenix]

Twelve Tracks.

While recording Our Prayer, Brian says it:  It's not a track.  It's an intro to the album.  We don't want to think of it as a track.  That's all I need to know.  Brian simply had something else in mind -- NOT what he ultimately settled on in 2004.  There's no debate about it.


Think of it this way...
Had Good Vibrations NOT been finished in 1966, and all we had were all the wonderful, inventive session tapes -- would we be discussing if Good Vibes was meant to be 3, 4 or 6 different songs?!?  No.  No.  NO.  I mean it could be... but it clearly wasn't supposed to be.  It's one song.  And I don't think ANY of us could have put together GV -- as it is -- from all those spectacular pieces the way Brian did.

So yes, SMiLE is twelve tracks.  And I believe the basic bulk of it is right there on all those unfinished working tapes.  And there would have been A LOT of sniping and cutting and editing (and re-recording) to make all the pieces fit and work.  Just like how Good Vibes works, SMiLE too was meant to work.

EXACTLY!  And what happened to "Good Vibrations" would also have happened to "IIGS", "TOMP", "CIFOTM", and given enough time, "The Elements".  Sadly Brian couldn't stop fussing with "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and time ran out on the whole thing.

[Mikie]

Twelve Tracks.

While recording Our Prayer, Brian says it:  It's not a track.  It's an intro to the album.  We don't want to think of it as a track.  That's all I need to know.  Brian simply had something else in mind -- NOT what he ultimately settled on in 2004.  There's no debate about it.


Think of it this way...
Had Good Vibrations NOT been finished in 1966, and all we had were all the wonderful, inventive session tapes -- would we be discussing if Good Vibes was meant to be 3, 4 or 6 different songs?!?  No.  No.  NO.  I mean it could be... but it clearly wasn't supposed to be.  It's one song.  And I don't think ANY of us could have put together GV -- as it is -- from all those spectacular pieces the way Brian did.

So yes, SMiLE is twelve tracks.  And I believe the basic bulk of it is right there on all those unfinished working tapes.  And there would have been A LOT of sniping and cutting and editing (and re-recording) to make all the pieces fit and work.  Just like how Good Vibes works, SMiLE too was meant to work.

Best post in the thread, right here.

No it isn't. He's just echoing what a bunch of us said earlier in the thread. We agreed on 12 tracks.

And notice Bean Bag mentioned Good Vibrations and how it's one song (track). A track you have a very difficult time including in YOUR Smile mix. And NO, I don't want to hear your opinion again of why you don't include it in your mix. You already milked it for all its worth on another thread. It was pretty much unanimous on that last thread that Good Vibrations be included. So now it seems you're acknowledging the inclusion of the song and going with the flow, is that it? No, don't tell me, I don't want to know!!!!  

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Twelve Tracks.

While recording Our Prayer, Brian says it:  It's not a track.  It's an intro to the album.  We don't want to think of it as a track.  That's all I need to know.  Brian simply had something else in mind -- NOT what he ultimately settled on in 2004.  There's no debate about it.


Think of it this way...
Had Good Vibrations NOT been finished in 1966, and all we had were all the wonderful, inventive session tapes -- would we be discussing if Good Vibes was meant to be 3, 4 or 6 different songs?!?  No.  No.  NO.  I mean it could be... but it clearly wasn't supposed to be.  It's one song.  And I don't think ANY of us could have put together GV -- as it is -- from all those spectacular pieces the way Brian did.

So yes, SMiLE is twelve tracks.  And I believe the basic bulk of it is right there on all those unfinished working tapes.  And there would have been A LOT of sniping and cutting and editing (and re-recording) to make all the pieces fit and work.  Just like how Good Vibes works, SMiLE too was meant to work.

Best post in the thread, right here.

No it isn't. He's just echoing what a bunch of us said earlier in the thread. We agreed on 12 tracks.

And notice Bean Bag mentioned Good Vibrations and how it's one song (track). A track you have a very difficult time including in YOUR Smile mix. And NO, I don't want to hear your opinion again of why you don't include it in your mix. You already milked it for all its worth on another thread. It was pretty much unanimous on that last thread that Good Vibrations be included. So now it seems you're acknowledging the inclusion of the song and going with the flow, is that it? No, don't tell me, I don't want to know!!!!  

You are such a smug, condescending little a$$hole it's not even funny. You bring nothing meaningful or worthwhile to any discussion you take part in (at least, none that I've seen) and you've gone out of your way to be rude and disrespectful towards me since I've got here. Did I kill your puppy or something? Drop a house on your sister? Like, what's your problem with me?

I wanted to give Bean Bag a shoutout because while he said "12 tracks" like the rest of you...he did it in a particularly eloquent way and I agreed with him. Is that so awful? Did that really warrant such a snarky remark from you?

If you actually paid attention to what I've said (instead of coldly dismissing everything related to the actual topics I'm trying to address) you'd see that while I don't think GV fits for me personally, yes, I concede it probably would've been on a historical 67 SMiLE. Don't know why that's so hard to grasp.

You started that flame war about GV, not me. I enjoyed no part of that, I was actually really disappointed that the only kind of response generated was asinine "durr, you suck for leaving off GV!" for pages on end. I expressed my reasons, my PERSONAL reasons for leaving it off my PERSONAL mix because you forced me to defend my decision. How was I supposed to react in that situation?

A QUESTION TO ALL OTHER SMILEY SMILERS REGARDING THIS FORUM ITSELF: Is there a block feature on this site? Because I am sick of seeing Mikie and his posts when I come here. This forum can be an awesome place. But with people like him, it can be a real sh!thole too. I just want to share my ideas and discuss things with civility. I am absolutely tired of dealing with this harassment, though.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

That's how it was conceived, that's how it was almost produced...

I would really love to see your documentary proof for this unequivocal statement. The back slick list wasn't in Brian's handwriting, nor was it in any order... but you say you know the track sequence. How ?

OK.  Bear with me, as I'm not trying to be snarky at all.  Obviously there's no way I could know the way things REALLY went down without being there but there's a lot of stuff that when looked at realistically, just makes "too much sense" to be wrong.  Regardless of the handwriting, that list was either dictated or authorized by Brian to be sent to Capitol, for them to use as the OFFICIAL list of songs for their new album.  Things fell apart, Brian didn't finish the album, and it was scrapped but that doesn't change the fact that those 12 songs (plus "Our Prayer" and any other "hidden tracks" he may have also included) were what Brian intended to put on the upcoming album.  I'll get to the running order shortly but there's far more concrete evidence (mainly the slicks) saying "those were the songs Brian intended for Smile in early 1967, with the album's release looming" than anything proving they weren't.  

(Our Prayer - hidden "intro to the album")
Heroes And Villains (intro/Cantina version through tape explosion/single version from first chorus/ending bits I can't remember the names of)
Do You Like Worms (with discarded vocal line)
The Old Master Painter (Barnyard/TOMP/Barnshine fade)
Wonderful
Child Is Father Of The Man (includes both Look and CIFTTM)
Cabinessence

(You're Welcome - depending on my mood)
Good Vibrations
I'm In Great Shape (IIGS/I Wanna Be around/Workshop)
Vega-Tables
Wind Chimes
The Elements (Mrs O'Leary's Cow - the intro/Air/Earth/Water)*
Surf's Up (sung by Brian without Reilly's lyrics/Al's vocal at the end)

* I have no idea what Brian intended for "The Elements", other than what I parenthetically listed above, nor do I know the order beyond MOC coming first. 

Eh. See, this is what I don't understand. Why is everyone so dead-set on this elements suite/side? There was initially one single track called "the elements" that was never properly assembled, much less written. Where and why did this whole Elements suite come into the SMiLE cannon? Why this obsession with putting Chimes and Veggies together? They sound nothing alike, it's such a jarring transition (as is Chimes into Cow.) You shoehorned a song about Children and loss of innocence into the Americana songs and tacked Surf's Up on at the end of these "element songs" that have nothing to do with it. To each his own, of course, but I resent the way you offer a pretty unoriginal sequence and claim this is the way it was always supposed to go.

I just don't see it, and this illustrates why I called "The Elements" the scourge of SMiLE Mixers. It's so overemphasized, we waste so much time trying to hamfist unrelated bits together because of half-assed 'well this sounds like air to me' type reasoning instead of being imaginative with the material. The Elements is a red herring. Just put the pieces you want to use in places where they sound good.

As I highlighted above, I agree with what I believe is most of what you do.  I see "The Elements" as a single song, comprised of four section, of which only one was completed.  We know "Fire (MOC)" was "'The Elements' part one" but most evidence suggest that at best, Brian never told anyone what he intended for the other parts and at worst, never even got around to composing them.  I don't think of "Wind Chimes" and "Vega-Tables" as neither part of "The Elements" (song) or an elements suite.  Where I think our opinions differ is I don't think there were ANY suites, Americana, loss/innocence, or anything.  Sure there were themes Brian and Van Dyke were exploring here and there but I don't think those themes dictated the album's order order in any overwhelming way.  Like "Sloop John B" and the title track's placement on Pet Sounds, I think Brian's personal preference was what mattered most in that regard.

As for the running order, it's my belief that BWPS came out the way it did because despite the suggestions from Darian that were used, having Van Dyke "finish" the rest of the songs, and using the alternate lyrics for "Good Vibrations" to give us another "new" song, much of it was VERY close to as Brian intended.  Some of the songs flow "too good" to not be what top-of-his-game Brian had intended all along.  For example, BWPS had "Vega-Tables" follow "Workshop" and the Purple Chick version showed us that the intro percussion of the one fit PERFECTLY behind the sound effects of the other.  Why did I ALSO put "Wind Chimes" next in my version?  Because I honestly believe that's probably where Brian intended it to go (and more importantly, because I can't think of any place that sounds better).

When the album was scrapped in '67, I believe it was VERY close to being done.  All that was missing were finished vocals (in some cases just leads) for "DYLW", "Surf's Up", "CIFOTM", "TOMP", "IIGS", and Cabinessence"; completed lyrics for "CIFOT" (probably) and "DYLW" (possibly); recording, assembling, and/or composing the rest of "The Elements", possibly the backing track for the second half of "Surf's Up", and the big one, which is what I strongly feel is what "killed" Smile: edits of "Heroes And Villains" and "Vega-Tables" that Brian was happy with.  Mike (and/or others) may not have liked some of the material but as pointed out, they brought it when asked.  I feel the modular recording method got the better of Brian (probably in part because of drugs and/or mental illness) and he finally just had to give up on trying to figure out the "right" way the pieces fit, just to save himself.  Truth be told, Derek Taylor probably saw this first hand and accepted it before Brian, which led to the scrapped while still recording time table.  ("Another week and he's starting over AGAIN?  I'm sorry, guys.  I'm pulling the plug.")

So 2004 rolls around and Brian and his team decide to finish it but he's no further along than he was in 1967.  Step one: Darian assembles "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and Brian approves.  Next, Van Dyke finishes (or unearths) the lyrics.   Finally, they record the whole thing.  At some point Brian decides that "The Elements" (song) just isn't worth the effort it will take to finish it so he rejigs "Fire" and makes it its own song.  Beyond that, the main difference between my version and the 2004 release is them designating each unreleased fragment of music with its own name.  Compared to the old slicks, this made it look like it included all sorts of "extra songs" but by then, lots of people knew the names of the pieces and the link tracks legend had grown so much, a bunch of little tracks seemed more, I don't know...eccentric? and marketable so that's what we got.  The important thing was Brian was anywhere from OK to completely satisfied with the music came together.

Everyone knows the three movements was a post-2000 idea and like many people, I agree that it was done mainly to give cohesion to the third, unfinished "movement".  Because while the Americana one works pretty good.  What does "Cabinessence" REALLY have to do with childhood or whatever that one's supposed to be?  Don't get me wrong.  I love BWPS for what it is and all those involved really did a great job of making a complete album from where Brian had left off but I think much of it getting finished had to do with Brian saying things like "Those edits work great, Darian.  What other ideas do you have?" and "While you're here, Van Dyke, why don't you go a head and put lyrics to these other pieces too?"  

Like I said, I think Brian was almost there.  All I did was create a different edit for "H&V" (which I really believe was the intended edit for at least a small window in time in 1966/67), and assemble a versions of "The Elements" which is probably no closer to what Brian had in mind than anyone else could guess but also no worse than anyone else could make using only the material available.

There's one other wrinkle I didn't cover but I'll leave that for someone else to bring up because this post is already FAR too long.

And for the record, I immediately regretted not including a "YMMV" at the end of my original post so feel free to use this one for both.

I'm not in the mood for typing out a real long, in-depth reply to you right now as I usually would. When I am, I will edit this. Just wanted you to know I read this and agree with a good chunk of what you have to say. The fact that you concede that The Elements was an unfinished track and not like a suite, that really makes me appreciate where you're coming from a lot more, even if I still disagree with things like putting Veggies and Chimes together. To be continued.

[Mikie]

You are such a smug, condescending little a$$hole it's not even funny. You bring nothing meaningful or worthwhile to any discussion you take part in. I am absolutely tired of dealing with this harassment, though.

So, does anybody else agree with Mujan's assessment about me?  And though you're tired of dealing with "harassment", Mujan, you doesn't hesitate to call me a "smug little a$$hole". That's not very nice - I never called you any names, nor did I harass you in any way. Just bringing up an unpopular opinion of yours from the past, that's all.  Never even commented on your Smile mix, other than your exclusion of Good Vibrations from it.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

You are such a smug, condescending little a$$hole it's not even funny. You bring nothing meaningful or worthwhile to any discussion you take part in. I am absolutely tired of dealing with this harassment, though.

So, does anybody else agree with Mujan's assessment about me?  And though you're tired of dealing with "harassment", Mujan, you doesn't hesitate to call me a "smug little a$$hole". That's not very nice - I never called you any names, nor did I harass you in any way. Just bringing up an unpopular opinion of yours from the past, that's all.  Never even commented on your Smile mix, other than your exclusion of Good Vibrations from it.

You berated me incessantly for choosing to leave it off. Page after page you wouldn't let it go. You spearheaded a wave of others dismissing me because of that one, goofy little thing. Your posts towards me have been absolutely rude since I got here. You go out of your way to bring negative attention to me, to follow me from topic to topic and put me down. Don't you dare try to play innocent now. You're the bully who harassed people until they snap, then cries foul when your victim calls you a "not very nice" name. Did I hurt your feelings? Well, youve been hurting mine--and intentionally so--since I started posting here regularly.