The Recording of Fun, Fun, Fun and Don't Worry Baby

[branaa09]

I have two questions that all of you Beach Boys fanatics, Mark or Alan might be able to help me with.

On the recording of Don't Worry Baby, I know it was recorded onto either 3-Track or 4-Track but, how did Brian record it? I know Track 1 had to be the Basic Instrumental Track but, how did the rest go, did he bounce to another tape? because a track of instruments, two backgrounds and one lead Vocal equals 4-Tracks right away.

The same with Fun, Fun, Fun There had to be at least one bounce, because of the Instrumental Track with is actually not Mono as originally assumed thanks to MIC, as well as two Vocal Overdubs and The Solo Overdubs.

[DonnyL]

Bouncing from deck to deck. It was not uncommon for studio cuts of this era to have many many bounces. Sync response was lousy on the these decks (though some bounced internally anyway), so most major studios bounced from machine to machine.

"Don't Worry Baby" was 3-track, and sounds like it has 4 overdubs in addition to the basic track (two background vocals, two lead vocals). The lead guitar was probably a punch-in on one of the vocal tracks. Not sure if the basic track was cut live or to 3-track, then bounced.

Once Brian went mono-only, key parts were often added during mixdown, so they only appear on the final mono mix.

Worth mentioning again is that the focus of attention was the mono 1/4". Multi-tracks were only considered working steps toward that end, so they used them in ways that might be considered unorthodox today. The 'mix' was not a separate process, just the final step ... i.e., 'mixdown' was done in smaller sections every step of the way.

[the professor]

question: Dave said he played the guitar break in DWB; is that true? Of course I would love to think/kmnow my fav BB played on that.

Professor

[bringahorseinhere?]

sounds to me like the jazzmaster or jaguar playing the solo........ which I would assume to be Carl?.....

would love to know definitely too!

RickB

[c-man]

Carl.
Dave DID play it live in Grand Island, NEB in 2011, when he made a surprise guest appearance with the BBs band. On that song, he flailed away at it, swinging his arm almost Townshend-style.

[bringahorseinhere?]

I'd really love to hear the recently discovered 'lost' tape of' SDV2' in its complete form....

what we now have as the alternate's 'DWB' and 'WDFFIL' with the extra intro.......

what else does that tape hold us freaks must hear? audio chatter etc etc

RickB

[metal flake paint]

I'd really love to hear the recently discovered 'lost' tape of' SDV2' in its complete form....

what we now have as the alternate's 'DWB' and 'WDFFIL' with the extra intro.......

what else does that tape hold us freaks must hear? audio chatter etc etc

RickB

Here's some info from Jon about the contents:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,7109.msg114285.html#msg114285

[c-man]

It's interesting that this topic has presented itself at this time, since the past couple of days I've been preparing an essay on the making of "Fun, Fun, Fun" to accompany my MIC online sessionography.

Both of these songs are among the earliest examples of the Boys working with three generations of 3-track tape. In the case of "Don't Worry Baby", the basic track was cut in mono, then the other two tracks of the first-gen tape were filled with double-tracked backing vocals. Then there was a transfer to a second-gen 3-track, in which the two background vocal tracks were combined onto one track and the basic instrumental track remained on its own discrete track. Brian's first lead vocal was recorded onto the remaining open track of this second-gen tape, and Carl's guitar intro & break were recorded on the same track, probably as a punch-in after-the-fact. It was from this generation that the new 2009 stereo mix for Summer Love Songs was prepared, and that is on MIC as well. Then, a final 3-track to 3-track transfer was made, to a third-gen tape, during which Brian doubled his lead as a live feed onto the same track that his original lead was being dubbed to. This third-gen tape was used to mix the original mono and stereo versions.

Examining the "Fun, Fun, Fun" session tapes as they appear on the SOT UM Vol. 5 bootleg raises some interesting questions. They are chronologically out-of-order here, but if we listen first to Tracks 5-8, we hear 14 takes of the first vocal overdub and Carl's doubled guitar intro and solo. We know the basic instrumental track was recorded in stereo, with one overdub (doubling Hal's drums and the saxophones) added on the first-gen 3-track tape. Seemingly, this first set of vocals (with guitar) were being recorded at the same time as the dubdown of the first-gen tracks to a second-gen tape; I say that because we have all of these takes, whereas you might expect that they would simply wipe each take and redo it as they went. Instead, they apparently kept the tape rolling, each time feeding in the reduction-mix of the three instrumental tracks down to one track, while the group sang and Carl added the extra guitar parts to a second track on that new tape. Tracks 2-4 on this disc REALLY present a conondrum, because that's where they are adding the organ solo (with guitar & snare drum backup) to a third-generation tape...and what's VERY interesting is that this was apparently recorded to TWO separate third-gen 3-tracks: the source for this bootleg is a 3-track where the two sets of vocals from gen-two have been combined onto one track, the basic track is on its own track, and the new organ-guitar-snare drum overdub is kept discrete on its own track - whereas the original stereo mix keeps the two vocal tracks separate and combines the organ overdub with the basic track in the center - meaning, that mix would HAVE to have been made from ANOTHER third-gen 3-track recorded at the same time as the one used for this bootleg. Why did they do this? My only guess is that they wanted control over the level of the organ overdub when balanced against the basic instrumental track in the mono mix (which, as DonnyL stated, was of paramount importance at the time), so they kept those two things discrete from each other, and mixed the two vocal tracks together, because they knew they would be of equal level...but for the stereo mix, they wanted the two vocal tracks kept separate in wide-stereo, so they combined the organ overdub with the basic track on that dub-down. That's the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense!  Finally, Track 10 (Vocal Overdub) appears to be an early take of the second vocal track...in the background you can faintly hear the track with the guitar solo, blaring from the studio monitor speaker (that was used before they started wearing headphones for vocal overdubs)...which means that part was already recorded. However, this can't be the FINAL vocal double-track, because the floor tom roll heard on this track in the final mix is absent!

[DonnyL]

It's interesting that this topic has presented itself at this time, since the past couple of days I've been preparing an essay on the making of "Fun, Fun, Fun" to accompany my MIC online sessionography.

Both of these songs are among the earliest examples of the Boys working with three generations of 3-track tape. In the case of "Don't Worry Baby", the basic track was cut in mono, then the other two tracks of the first-gen tape were filled with double-tracked backing vocals. Then there was a transfer to a second-gen 3-track, in which the two background vocal tracks were combined onto one track and the basic instrumental track remained on its own discrete track. Brian's first lead vocal was recorded onto the remaining open track of this second-gen tape, and Carl's guitar intro & break were recorded on the same track, probably as a punch-in after-the-fact. It was from this generation that the new 2009 stereo mix for Summer Love Songs was prepared, and that is on MIC as well. Then, a final 3-track to 3-track transfer was made, to a third-gen tape, during which Brian doubled his lead as a live feed onto the same track that his original lead was being dubbed to. This third-gen tape was used to mix the original mono and stereo versions.

Examining the "Fun, Fun, Fun" session tapes as they appear on the SOT UM Vol. 5 bootleg raises some interesting questions. They are chronologically out-of-order here, but if we listen first to Tracks 5-8, we hear 14 takes of the first vocal overdub and Carl's doubled guitar intro and solo. We know the basic instrumental track was recorded in stereo, with one overdub (doubling Hal's drums and the saxophones) added on the first-gen 3-track tape. Seemingly, this first set of vocals (with guitar) were being recorded at the same time as the dubdown of the first-gen tracks to a second-gen tape; I say that because we have all of these takes, whereas you might expect that they would simply wipe each take and redo it as they went. Instead, they apparently kept the tape rolling, each time feeding in the reduction-mix of the three instrumental tracks down to one track, while the group sang and Carl added the extra guitar parts to a second track on that new tape. Tracks 2-4 on this disc REALLY present a conondrum, because that's where they are adding the organ solo (with guitar & snare drum backup) to a third-generation tape...and what's VERY interesting is that this was apparently recorded to TWO separate third-gen 3-tracks: the source for this bootleg is a 3-track where the two sets of vocals from gen-two have been combined onto one track, the basic track is on its own track, and the new organ-guitar-snare drum overdub is kept discrete on its own track - whereas the original stereo mix keeps the two vocal tracks separate and combines the organ overdub with the basic track in the center - meaning, that mix would HAVE to have been made from ANOTHER third-gen 3-track recorded at the same time as the one used for this bootleg. Why did they do this? My only guess is that they wanted control over the level of the organ overdub when balanced against the basic instrumental track in the mono mix (which, as DonnyL stated, was of paramount importance at the time), so they kept those two things discrete from each other, and mixed the two vocal tracks together, because they knew they would be of equal level...but for the stereo mix, they wanted the two vocal tracks kept separate in wide-stereo, so they combined the organ overdub with the basic track on that dub-down. That's the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense!  Finally, Track 10 (Vocal Overdub) appears to be an early take of the second vocal track...in the background you can faintly hear the track with the guitar solo, blaring from the studio monitor speaker (that was used before they started wearing headphones for vocal overdubs)...which means that part was already recorded. However, this can't be the FINAL vocal double-track, because the floor tom roll heard on this track in the final mix is absent!

That's really curious ... I can't imagine them making any decisions based on the stereo mix, but you never know.

Any chance this was 4-track?

[metal flake paint]

It's interesting that this topic has presented itself at this time, since the past couple of days I've been preparing an essay on the making of "Fun, Fun, Fun" to accompany my MIC online sessionography.

Both of these songs are among the earliest examples of the Boys working with three generations of 3-track tape. In the case of "Don't Worry Baby", the basic track was cut in mono, then the other two tracks of the first-gen tape were filled with double-tracked backing vocals. Then there was a transfer to a second-gen 3-track, in which the two background vocal tracks were combined onto one track and the basic instrumental track remained on its own discrete track. Brian's first lead vocal was recorded onto the remaining open track of this second-gen tape, and Carl's guitar intro & break were recorded on the same track, probably as a punch-in after-the-fact. It was from this generation that the new 2009 stereo mix for Summer Love Songs was prepared, and that is on MIC as well. Then, a final 3-track to 3-track transfer was made, to a third-gen tape, during which Brian doubled his lead as a live feed onto the same track that his original lead was being dubbed to. This third-gen tape was used to mix the original mono and stereo versions.

Examining the "Fun, Fun, Fun" session tapes as they appear on the SOT UM Vol. 5 bootleg raises some interesting questions. They are chronologically out-of-order here, but if we listen first to Tracks 5-8, we hear 14 takes of the first vocal overdub and Carl's doubled guitar intro and solo. We know the basic instrumental track was recorded in stereo, with one overdub (doubling Hal's drums and the saxophones) added on the first-gen 3-track tape. Seemingly, this first set of vocals (with guitar) were being recorded at the same time as the dubdown of the first-gen tracks to a second-gen tape; I say that because we have all of these takes, whereas you might expect that they would simply wipe each take and redo it as they went. Instead, they apparently kept the tape rolling, each time feeding in the reduction-mix of the three instrumental tracks down to one track, while the group sang and Carl added the extra guitar parts to a second track on that new tape. Tracks 2-4 on this disc REALLY present a conondrum, because that's where they are adding the organ solo (with guitar & snare drum backup) to a third-generation tape...and what's VERY interesting is that this was apparently recorded to TWO separate third-gen 3-tracks: the source for this bootleg is a 3-track where the two sets of vocals from gen-two have been combined onto one track, the basic track is on its own track, and the new organ-guitar-snare drum overdub is kept discrete on its own track - whereas the original stereo mix keeps the two vocal tracks separate and combines the organ overdub with the basic track in the center - meaning, that mix would HAVE to have been made from ANOTHER third-gen 3-track recorded at the same time as the one used for this bootleg. Why did they do this? My only guess is that they wanted control over the level of the organ overdub when balanced against the basic instrumental track in the mono mix (which, as DonnyL stated, was of paramount importance at the time), so they kept those two things discrete from each other, and mixed the two vocal tracks together, because they knew they would be of equal level...but for the stereo mix, they wanted the two vocal tracks kept separate in wide-stereo, so they combined the organ overdub with the basic track on that dub-down. That's the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense!  Finally, Track 10 (Vocal Overdub) appears to be an early take of the second vocal track...in the background you can faintly hear the track with the guitar solo, blaring from the studio monitor speaker (that was used before they started wearing headphones for vocal overdubs)...which means that part was already recorded. However, this can't be the FINAL vocal double-track, because the floor tom roll heard on this track in the final mix is absent!

This is what this message board should be about! Thanks, c-man.

[c-man]

<<That's really curious ... I can't imagine them making any decisions based on the stereo mix, but you never know.

Any chance this was 4-track?>>

Nope...Western didn't have 4-track until third quarter of '65. I don't think anyone in the U.S. had 4-track in January '64.

[Alan Smith]

Wonderful information above, thanks c-man (and Donny and MFP!)

[guitarfool2002]

<<That's really curious ... I can't imagine them making any decisions based on the stereo mix, but you never know.

Any chance this was 4-track?>>

Nope...Western didn't have 4-track until third quarter of '65. I don't think anyone in the U.S. had 4-track in January '64.

Les Paul and Atlantic (with Tom Dowd's insistence) had 8-track machines from Ampex working sessions in the late 50's, though. Remember This thread from 2012?  http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13763.0.html

And this Billboard clipping from '59 suggesting *Capitol* had an 8-track at that time along with Atlantic:


The issue of 8-track availability in that thread came up around an Armin Steiner quote that he had the first 8-track running in LA at Sound Recorders.

If you mean a dedicated 4-track machine versus the then-standard 3-track, that's different. But there were 8-tracks running before at sessions prior to '64.

Consider that the industry-wide shift from 3-track to 4-track (in some cases) to 8-track happened in some studios in the same amount of time that exists between when we were hashing this out on that "Armin Steiner" thread in 2012 and when I'm writing this today, and it's mind-boggling actually with just how fast the game was changing in 64-65-66 with studio technology.

And like the Motown 8-track machine from fall '64 and Steiner's at Sound - both designed and constructed "in house" - a lot of it was being done at and by individual studios rather than buying something off the production lines as a stock item.

Pre-64, though, I think Atlantic's in New York (and some say RCA too...) were the main "name" studios running that many tracks.

The whole history and trying to narrow it down is confusing as hell. 

[DonnyL]

Yeh 4-track was definitely around (and 8-track), but most studios on the west coast seemed to go from 3-track to 8-track relatively quickly. Then there were producers like Mickey Most, who was still bouncing mono to mono deep into the '60s!

3-track was originally designed to record folks like Nat King Cole and Frank Sinatra in stereo (orch. L/R, vocal center). I believe monitor systems were set up with 3 speakers in some studios.

[c-man]

Be that as it may, I'm pretty sure Western didn't have 4-track at the time, and The Beach Boys definitely weren't using 4-track at all until "The Little Girl I Once Knew". "Fun, Fun, Fun" is most definitely 3-track (albeit three generations of it).

[guitarfool2002]

Right, and as mentioned earlier the average board/console including the ones used to mix these BB's sessions didn't have a pan pot on each channel to do sweeping l-to-r pans, but instead had a 3-way switch for left-center-right, lined up with the kind of uses for 3-track recording Donny mentioned. It was a different mindset all around.

But then consider what Esquivel was doing in the late 50's with those wild pans and stereo fields, not to mention all of those late 50's novelty/audiophile records where you'd hear a ping-pong match "in stereo", or a train, or an auto race, or whatever else and it throws a wrench into trying to pin down when and/or why certain things were done.

One constant seems to have been the individual studios not wanting to blow out their budgets or risk down time or breakdowns with new equipment when they were being booked around the clock, as in those hitmaking studios like Gold Star around 63-64. It was probably easier and less expensive to keep churning out sessions with what we might consider outdated machines like the 3-tracks that they knew sounded good and worked for their purposes...even though more advanced things were available.

[Shane]

Both of these songs are among the earliest examples of the Boys working with three generations of 3-track tape. In the case of "Don't Worry Baby", the basic track was cut in mono, then the other two tracks of the first-gen tape were filled with double-tracked backing vocals. Then there was a transfer to a second-gen 3-track, in which the two background vocal tracks were combined onto one track and the basic instrumental track remained on its own discrete track. Brian's first lead vocal was recorded onto the remaining open track of this second-gen tape, and Carl's guitar intro & break were recorded on the same track, probably as a punch-in after-the-fact. It was from this generation that the new 2009 stereo mix for Summer Love Songs was prepared, and that is on MIC as well. Then, a final 3-track to 3-track transfer was made, to a third-gen tape, during which Brian doubled his lead as a live feed onto the same track that his original lead was being dubbed to. This third-gen tape was used to mix the original mono and stereo versions.

C-man, if that 2nd generation tape was used for the stereo remix of "Don't Worry Baby" wouldn't that have resulted in just a single-tracked lead vocal?  I hear a double tracked vocal on the stereo mix.  Or was this a case where the doubled lead vocal was pulled off the finished stereo master and synced to the rest of the music?

[guitarfool2002]

On the UK side, specifically Beatles at Abbey Road, it's odd in retrospect that they got a 4-track in time for "I Want To Hold Your Hand" in late '63, yet didn't get or have access to a proper 8-track machine at Abbey Road until the White Album in '68, which was a solid 2 years after some prominent US studios had already made the switch.

No rhyme or reason apparent, other than possibly the budget and reliability/familiarity issues I mentioned since this stuff was available and in use.

[guitarfool2002]

What I just thought of too was the timing of when some of these studios would have gotten a "new" four track to replace a 3-track, or whatever...because as many interviews and memories exist with specific details, hardly any mention the date. I guess the only obvious factor is like the case here  of Fun Fun Fun, where access to the master tapes can show obviously what was used to record it, versus what may have been available. No way to tell.

But with something like Spector at Gold Star - It was mentioned somewhere (here?) about Larry Levine using a 3-track for the "classics", while Levine himself almost talked down on the Ampex 3-track they used early on in favor of a 4-track Scully which had better features and better sound...so it wasn't a case of the "Wall Of Sound" aura owing a debt to 3-track recording if the engineer himself says the three-track machine wasn't as good as the 4-track that replaced it. They bounced tracks on 4-track just like they did on 3-track.

[c-man]

On the UK side, specifically Beatles at Abbey Road, it's odd in retrospect that they got a 4-track in time for "I Want To Hold Your Hand" in late '63, yet didn't get or have access to a proper 8-track machine at Abbey Road until the White Album in '68, which was a solid 2 years after some prominent US studios had already made the switch.

No rhyme or reason apparent, other than possibly the budget and reliability/familiarity issues I mentioned since this stuff was available and in use.

I wonder how much earlier Trident in London got their 8-track? They had theirs in use well before Abbey Road...and Abbey Road had theirs under a microscope well before they allowed their artists to actually use it (all this is from the Lewisohn "Sessions" book).

[c-man]

What I just thought of too was the timing of when some of these studios would have gotten a "new" four track to replace a 3-track, or whatever...because as many interviews and memories exist with specific details, hardly any mention the date. I guess the only obvious factor is like the case here  of Fun Fun Fun, where access to the master tapes can show obviously what was used to record it, versus what may have been available. No way to tell.

But with something like Spector at Gold Star - It was mentioned somewhere (here?) about Larry Levine using a 3-track for the "classics", while Levine himself almost talked down on the Ampex 3-track they used early on in favor of a 4-track Scully which had better features and better sound...so it wasn't a case of the "Wall Of Sound" aura owing a debt to 3-track recording if the engineer himself says the three-track machine wasn't as good as the 4-track that replaced it. They bounced tracks on 4-track just like they did on 3-track.

Interestingly, Mark Cunningham claimed in his book "Good Vibrations:  A History Of Record Production" (Sanctuary Music Library, 1996/1998, pp. 62 & 80) that Gold Star had a Scully 4-track by January '65, and that it was used for the BBs' "Do You Wanna Dance" - but this is evidently wrong, as the only multis from that session in the archives are 3-track. I posed the question of when Gold Star acquired their first 4-track to the Gold Star FAQ website back in February 2004, and their reply was "We all agree that it was mid 1966" (the "we" constituted all three principals - David Gold, Stan Ross, and Larry Levine, all of whom were still with us at the time). I managed to get a more specific approximate time, to within two months, while researching the "Good Vibrations" recording chronology for the "SMiLE Sessions" box set...the first "GV" session, at Gold Star on 2/17-18, was 3-track (then it was transferred to 4-track at Western for overdubs), but the next "GV" tracking session, also held at Gold Star (on 4/9) was 4-track. So, by early April '66, Gold Star had a 4-track, but they apparently didn't have one in mid-February. For whatever reason, they lagged behind Western by a good six months.
 

[guitarfool2002]

On the UK side, specifically Beatles at Abbey Road, it's odd in retrospect that they got a 4-track in time for "I Want To Hold Your Hand" in late '63, yet didn't get or have access to a proper 8-track machine at Abbey Road until the White Album in '68, which was a solid 2 years after some prominent US studios had already made the switch.

No rhyme or reason apparent, other than possibly the budget and reliability/familiarity issues I mentioned since this stuff was available and in use.

I wonder how much earlier Trident in London got their 8-track? They had theirs in use well before Abbey Road...and Abbey Road had theirs under a microscope well before they allowed their artists to actually use it (all this is from the Lewisohn "Sessions" book).

Great question, as that 8-track availability as well as a more "indie" attitude at Trident where more was allowed and in the open than the regulation-laden EMI was a selling point to get artists to book an indie upstart like Trident. Similar to the old-guard like Columbia's regulations versus indies like Gold Star and Western...but in LA, the bigger corporate regulation-laden studio had an 8-track when the others didn't. Sort of a flipped version of the UK.

I do know that EMI's regulations were more from their previous classical/formal existence, before all those upstart "kids" starting cutting rock records there!    White lab coats, an almost military-like chain of command system where every worker was supposed to know his place and remain in that place...etc. Credit to the Beatles and George Martin for getting enough clout and being successful enough to at least crack some of that nonsense. Otherwise Geoff Emerick would have been in a cutting room until he was in his 30's before getting a shot at the board, for example.

And one of those old-guard policies was to buy a piece of equipment and have EMI's in-house technicians go over every nook and cranny with a fine-tooth comb before installing the thing and using it.

And that last point is, I believe, why it took until the White Album for them to actually install and use the 8-track: They simply weren't in that mindset of competing with other studios, as they really never had to be doing classical music sessions for decades. While they were cutting "live" classical stuff, the rock and pop studio world was playing "keeping up with the Joneses" and constantly buying new and improved gear to lure artists into their facilities, and actually *getting the new stuff running at sessions* before someone else was the selling point and the goal, and they'd learn as they went in some cases.

Trident was bringing a US studio mentality into the old-guard traditional UK studio business, and it did attract a lot of big rock clients because of it.

[guitarfool2002]

What I just thought of too was the timing of when some of these studios would have gotten a "new" four track to replace a 3-track, or whatever...because as many interviews and memories exist with specific details, hardly any mention the date. I guess the only obvious factor is like the case here  of Fun Fun Fun, where access to the master tapes can show obviously what was used to record it, versus what may have been available. No way to tell.

But with something like Spector at Gold Star - It was mentioned somewhere (here?) about Larry Levine using a 3-track for the "classics", while Levine himself almost talked down on the Ampex 3-track they used early on in favor of a 4-track Scully which had better features and better sound...so it wasn't a case of the "Wall Of Sound" aura owing a debt to 3-track recording if the engineer himself says the three-track machine wasn't as good as the 4-track that replaced it. They bounced tracks on 4-track just like they did on 3-track.

Interestingly, Mark Cunningham claimed in his book "Good Vibrations:  A History Of Record Production" (Sanctuary Music Library, 1996/1998, pp. 62 & 80) that Gold Star had a Scully 4-track by January '65, and that it was used for the BBs' "Do You Wanna Dance" - but this is evidently wrong, as the only multis from that session in the archives are 3-track. I posed the question of when Gold Star acquired their first 4-track to the Gold Star FAQ website back in February 2004, and their reply was "We all agree that it was mid 1966" (the "we" constituted all three principals - David Gold, Stan Ross, and Larry Levine, all of whom were still with us at the time). I managed to get a more specific approximate time, to within two months, while researching the "Good Vibrations" recording chronology for the "SMiLE Sessions" box set...the first "GV" session, at Gold Star on 2/17-18, was 3-track (then it was transferred to 4-track at Western for overdubs), but the next "GV" tracking session, also held at Gold Star (on 4/9) was 4-track. So, by early April '66, Gold Star had a 4-track, but they apparently didn't have one in mid-February. For whatever reason, they lagged behind Western by a good six months.

That's really interesting, and I have to say it's a little later than the impression I got reading through some less-specific archived interviews with Levine, and also there is an interview conducted by Harvey Kubernik about 10 years ago where 4-track is specifically mentioned in working with Spector several times in the transcript, and it suggests earlier than '66 from what kinds of sessions they seem to be referring to.

That's what I meant by confusing as hell earlier -  - There are a lot of recollections and very specific details but no one seems to have put enough of a specific date or time to when any of this changed, and that's the thing we're trying to figure out!  It's cool that you connected these dates via Good Vibrations. Now does this mean too that Wouldn't It Be Nice was done on 3-track at GS then moved over to 4? It would have been almost the same time as the photos I'm about to post here...

And again, consider the often behind-the-times Abbey Road had a 4-track running at sessions in 1963, so if Gold Star didn't get theirs until '66 they were really late to the game.

Craig: To confirm further what you just posted, here are those screenshots I took of the Feb. 1966 session at GS captured on film...you see clearly the Ampex and various "clues" pegging it as the 3-track setup (Donny L, confirm? ) so they still had it in Feb '66. It's great to have film evidence, innit? 

[c-man]

Getting back to "The Recording of Fun, Fun, Fun" for a moment...what's everyone's opinion on these two questions:

(1) Is that a tack piano or a regular piano? It's best heard in the intro, those two big full-note downbeats...to me, it sorta sounds like a regular piano (either upright or baby grand) with the lid up...I think the saxophones, which sound at the same time, give the illusion of it being a tack or at least a detuned (honky-tonk) upight...you can hear the saxes better on the "Hawthorne" basic track as well as the MIC stereo mix...

(2) Listen to the MIC mix through headpohones, and ignore the far right channel (that's a drum & saxophone overdub), and focus instead on the far left and middle channels, which are from the stereo basic track...at 0:17-0:18, there's a snare drum roll in the middle channel, right before Mike's lead vocal starts...to me, that seems independent of the drumming in the far left channel, which at various points includes its own drum rolls...and I right? I'm trying to determine for sure if it's two drummers on the basic track, as I've long thought - one (Hal) coming through in the left channel of this mix, the other (Dennis) coming through in the center. (Hal then doubled his basic beat on the overdub, which is in the right channel here, along with Steve and Jay doubling their saxophone parts).  

[c-man]

Yes, the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" basic track from Gold Star 1/22/66 is 3-track. So is the "Just Wasn't Made For These Times" basic track from Gold Star 2/14/66.