Bass Guitar Sound

[silodweller]

Does anyone have an inkling of an idea of how Carol Kaye and Ray Pohlman achieved their bass sound?  I know Carol speaks about giving it a lot of "highs" but still keeping the "lows" and that a pick was generally used to get that "clicking" effect each time a note was played but how did they achieve that slightly overdriven tone?  I can't really explain it, but it just sounds a little overdriven to me.  You can hear it a lot on songs like "Do You Like Worms" and "Please Let Me Wonder".  It's just an incredible sound. 

[Niko]

Have you ever used a Danelectro bass? If you want to get a similar sound for your own recordings, I'd say invest your money into buying one. They're generally very cheap but great instruments. Playing a Danelectro bass with flatwounds on it is really fun.

I own a Danelctro 59-DC guitar, and it has always come through for me. Works for jazz, rock, blues, funk, and pretty much anything else.

Are you asking because you are interested in replicating the sound?

[silodweller]

Hi, yes I've heard of that.  I'd love to get my hands on one of them. 
I've always played my bass parts with a hard pick and have come "close" to getting a similar sound but never quite there.  I guess I should resign myself to the fact that the equipment being used has a lot to do with it, equipment I just wouldn't be able to get hold of but anything to get me closer.  I am trying to get that sound, yes.  At least for some of my tracks. 

[Niko]

Part of it is using flat wound strings. Use those on a jazz bass and you can get the 'pointed' sound of the recordings.

I don't know what kind of Dano is used on those recordings, but I'm going to assume either a Longhorn, a model that has become pretty renowned for its tone, or a model like the 59-DC.

If you actually want one, check em out on ebay or find a used guitar shop.

Longhorn: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Danelectro-Longhorn-Bass-in-Exceptionally-Clean-Shape-/380823718059
DC: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Danelectro-DC-Shorthorn-Bass-90s-Reissue-/301071688510

Danelectro's are great, always more than worth the price you pay.


Just a side note, Probyn Gregory and Nicki Wonder from Brian's backing band both use Dano guitars. Probyn plays a 12-string 59-DC and Nicki plays a single cutaway model.

[silodweller]

Cool, thanks very much for the info and the links.  Greatly appreciated. 

[c-man]

Danos are great (Randall Kirsch played one for a few years in the Mike & Bruce Beach Boys band), and I own two myself (one strung and tuned as a baritone guitar, the other as a classic 6-string bass) but I'm pretty sure Fenders were used on "Please Let Me Wonder" and "Do You Like Worms".

[Niko]

That would make sense. The classic Dano sound, to me, is on God Only Knows. Very distinct.

[RONDEMON]

Palm mute the strings above anything else. The bass sound is mostly from that with flat wound strings of course too. Almost any bass will do if it's got flats. Listen to the bass on the verse of Good Vibes. Hear it? That bass sound is all over Wild Honey as well as Beck's "Sea Change" LP.

[silodweller]

Very cool info.  Thanks.  I was thinking about it, and yes I'm pretty sure Carol Kaye used a Fender bass mostly, didn't she?  I've always practiced the palm mute when I play bass but I haven't used the flat strings.  I'll definitely give that a go. 

[D409]

Here's Carol Kaye discussing her BB's bass sound  (as interviewed for Good Vibrations - A History Of Record Production by Mark Cunningham) :

"Brian had such definite bass ideas. He liked me to have more of a treble sound on my Fender Precision than I personally liked and used on other people's sessions, and I used a Fender Concert amp with an open back 4 x 10" Utah speaker cabinet, the same set-up I used from "Help Me Rhonda" through to "Heroes And Villains", and all the other stuff in between like Simon & Garfunkel's "Homeward Bound". The speakers were usually miked with a Shure 545 which worked best when centred on the cabinet and placed back about one and a half feet, although some engineers liked to stick the mic right up on the grill, up high on one speaker. I also used a Gibson Maestro fuzz box for a fuzz bass line which never made it on to the released single [Good Vibrations]. It was just another experiment that Brian wanted to try."

[guitarfool2002]

I think the absolute keys to that bass tone - of course we have the person who played it already describing it  - are:

1. Fender bass
2. Fender amp (the 'clicky' tone comes through better when running through a Fender tube guitar amp but I'd consider modifying it first, because a bass can blow out a tube guitar amp...take that from my own experience with my Bandmaster... )
3. Playing with a pick
4. Flatwound strings, although normal roundwounds get the sound just as well
5. Muting the bridge with some kind of foam or other material


There is a special mojo when playing a Fender bass through a Fender amp, it's as simple as that. This is the "West Coast" studio sound from the 60's, but if you also want the Jamerson Motown sound or 60's vintage bass vibe in general, run a Fender bass through an Ampeg tube bass amp. There is no substitute.

I got this trick from Carol Kaye, and I used this to record nearly every bass part I've played. She would very slightly mute her bridge with a combination of tape and foam right down at the bridge saddles. This dulls some of the overtones and "pinging" that you get when picking the strings, and for live gigs it doesn't matter but for studio recording it does create a more pleasing sound, and there is no pinging or ringing from the bridge. I cut a small strip of foam, the kind that comes in protective cases, and shape it so it just sits under the strings at the saddles, on the bridge, but not thick enough to create a muted sound. The bass still rings nice and clear recording direct or through an amp, playing with a pick, but you don't get that chiming or ringing noise that can happen otherwise.

You'll be amazed at how close you can get to that California sound when you run through a Fender tube amp. But again, keep in mind nearly all of these players in the 60's had modifications done of some kind, and they also played at lower volume. If you try to play through a non-bass amp at higher volume, it may blow out and it's not cheap to repair. If you can find a 60's Fender Bassman head, that's one solution, but those sound more like Ampegs to me, and the best Fender amps to try this with might be a Super or Quad, or something in that family. Even then, be careful because these were not designed to handle bass thumping, yet in studio settings they deliver that character which we all love.

Play with a pick. There is no substitute. I have never understood the snobbery from some bass circles when certain players look down on playing with a pick. Consider who your favorite bassists are - in my case most if not all played with a pick - and unless you aspire to be Jaco Pastorius or one of those cats with a massive 6-string jazz-fusion "lead bass" kind of vibe, play with a pick. I think it even records better, but that's me.

I'm not sold either way on getting "that sound" with roundwound versus flatwound bass strings. If you want the James Jamerson Motown thump, by all means string it up with flatwounds and buy an Ampeg or a Bassman, but I have gotten that Carol Kaye/Ray Pohlman 60's sound using regular strings too. I will say flatwounds will give you a noticeable vintage tone right out of the box, if that's what you're chasing, but I don't think it's as essential as the bass itself, the amp, the pick, and the technique.

I always come back to Fender, though. There is no substitute. If you like that sound and want it, spend the money and get a Fender. No other bass delivers it, and the Fender bass was ubiquitous in the 60's studio scene for a reason. They record better, and have that sound. With amps, we in 2014 are spoiled by the digital and plugin age. You can audition any number of amps on your DAW through plugins, there are so many of them now. Even the "iRig" for your iPad or whatever - just test it out by running a bass through a Fender Super Reverb simulation or anything similar, and you don't even need to track down an old tube amp to see what you think of the tones.

Last tip: If you want to record a 60's sound on one of your tracks, put yourself into a 60's recording mindset when recording it. Don't reach for an Ibanez bass, or send it through a modern bass amp, rather research and test out what the players of that era used and try to get close. Often you don't need to spend a ton on vintage gear to get it. And you can come close with the plugins, depending on the project maybe close enough to track the part digitally but using the 60's signal-chain mentality.

[silodweller]

Thanks Guitarfool2002.  That's a lot of useful info.  I'm thinking I'll have to go the plugin route 'cause living in South Africa and paying the prices that are being asked for some of these vintage amps, etc. is just too much for my pocket!  Anyway, this has given me a lot to think about and work on.  Thanks again!

[silodweller]

Here's Carol Kaye discussing her BB's bass sound  (as interviewed for Good Vibrations - A History Of Record Production by Mark Cunningham) :

"Brian had such definite bass ideas. He liked me to have more of a treble sound on my Fender Precision than I personally liked and used on other people's sessions, and I used a Fender Concert amp with an open back 4 x 10" Utah speaker cabinet, the same set-up I used from "Help Me Rhonda" through to "Heroes And Villains", and all the other stuff in between like Simon & Garfunkel's "Homeward Bound". The speakers were usually miked with a Shure 545 which worked best when centred on the cabinet and placed back about one and a half feet, although some engineers liked to stick the mic right up on the grill, up high on one speaker. I also used a Gibson Maestro fuzz box for a fuzz bass line which never made it on to the released single [Good Vibrations]. It was just another experiment that Brian wanted to try."

Thanks D409.  Good bit of info here.

[guitarfool2002]

Thanks Guitarfool2002.  That's a lot of useful info.  I'm thinking I'll have to go the plugin route 'cause living in South Africa and paying the prices that are being asked for some of these vintage amps, etc. is just too much for my pocket!  Anyway, this has given me a lot to think about and work on.  Thanks again!

You're welcome! I hope some of that info will help you get that tone, a lot of the fun can be trying to match it, and especially now with plugins and all kinds of amp simulators and all of that stuff, you can try thinking outside the box and instead of going for the collection of bass amps in any plugin, try sending it through a Super Reverb or even a Fender Twin instead. And while it wasn't always a key component, another thing to try is any simulator or plugin that replicates an LA-2A style limiter/compressor or for later 60's sounds the 1176. It wasn't used all the time, but is enough of a signature 60's thing that you might find some close approximations to those classic bass tracks.

The vintage amp market in general has gone wild in the past 15 years, the gear is just so out of reach both price-wise and for maintenance/upkeep/repair costs for most people, and if a plugin can come pretty close, it's worth a try. Just think 60's when you're choosing the amp on the programs. 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

That would make sense. The classic Dano sound, to me, is on God Only Knows. Very distinct.

That's a Fender, too.

[zachrwolfe]

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[c-man]

That would make sense. The classic Dano sound, to me, is on God Only Knows. Very distinct.

That's a Fender, too.

Yes...the "distinct" sound you're referring to is coming from playing fairly high up on the neck, with a pick, through a touch of tape-slap echo. And it's Ray Pohlman.

[guitarfool2002]

Consider too the effects, subtle sometimes and prominent others, added to the bass sounds. I describe it best as "bass guitar", which is the old term they used to use back in the day. I love it. In an era where most bass tracks are recorded "dry" in terms of spatial effects like reverb and delay, and instead have been treated with chorus and distortion and all kinds of those effects, these LA bass tracks might have even the slightest bit of reverb or slap echo applied to enhance them even more. Sometimes it's even undetectable in a mix, yet there is that extra space in the track that made it pop out of those small AM radio speakers.

Playing with a pick only enhances it, and helps "trigger" the effect even more when it's there. It's along the lines of some saying that a singer like John Lennon knew how to perfectly sing with tape delay, pronouncing and emphasizing certain syllables and hard consonants in a way that would slam the tape echo and make it respond to his vocals. And he got it from listening to his rock favorites like Gene Vincent. It's almost a lost art at this point in recording and singing.

For plug-ins, after setting up the bass itself with the pick, foam muting, etc...then a Fender vintage guitar amp setting...try adding a fender spring reverb simulation, and if that doesn't work do it like they did at Western and go for a chamber reverb. Then try adding a tape delay, or even get a vintage Echoplex simulator going. The delay slap combined with the reverb combined with the hard pick attack on the muted bass can really trigger the whole chain you'll have set up very well, similar to Lennon deliberately popping his vocal P's and B's just as he learned from Gene Vincent on "Be Bop A Lula", and hitting that awesome sound.

The pick on the bass would be the equivalent of a hard-popped B or P in a vocal.

I think that may be one way to get closer to the LA 60's bass vibe, even if those effects are not always as prominent as they may be on certain Pet Sounds tracks and otherwise.

And it totally goes against the "bone dry" method of recording bass tracks that so many automatically revert to when tracking bass. Add reverb and slap echo to a bass track? Horrors! Play the bass with a pick? Horrors!  

But that's some of the 60's LA studio bass sound, at least part of it. Think "bass guitar".