Mike hopes to "record another album the way it should be"

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Mike music is rarely terrible. Its generally just "meh." Not good, but not completely awful.

What was the last good song he did write with Brian though? It may have worked 50 years ago, but I just don't think it will now. What will actually bring them both together in such a way that they'll write good songs? The peak of Brian's creativity was Pet Sounds and Smile, projects Mike had very little to do with in terms of creative contributions. In my opinion the best song they wrote together, aside from Good Vibrations, is All I Wanna Do, and I have no idea the extent that Mike had in the creation of that song. I assume he wrote all the lyrics.

So while I am curious as to what would come out of the two of them working together, it just seems more likely than not the result would be "meh."

Brian would play Mike an idea, Mike would get excited and write lyrics about surf and sand, and Brian would go "ok."
That's how I picture it playing out anyway. I'd love to be proven wrong.

That's exactly how It would work out. Mike had his chance with TWGMTR, he was given space on the record, had Brian's ear and he produced the most insanely uninspired lyrics possible, I never imagined Mike would actually write a song called "beaches in my mind". "Spring Vacation", it's just so ridiculous.

Didn't Brian and Joe Thomas give Mike the title "Beaches In Mind" for him to apply his pen to?

Same with Spring Vacation.

For a bit of levity, here's Joe Thomas explaining the process:

Q: What happened after Brian contacted Mike and asked if he wanted to write together again

A: He also had a song that was eventually called “Spring Vacation.” That was the original song that he wanted Carl to sing on during Imagination. It was originally a song called “Lay Down Burden.” It was a gospelly kind of thing that he wanted to do with Carl. And then when Carl got sick, there was no way he could go back to that song again. So it just laid there. Now, 10 or 12 years later, he came up with a new title and a new direction. I think that it’s had enough time, because Carl didn’t sing it. He and Mike now sing it. He brought it as a kind of new song to Mike with a new theme: “easy money, ain’t life funny, hallelujah, blah blah blah.” Mike then polished it off with the “Spring Vacation” lyric and the verses. It was like, wow. That was the first song that they started writing together."

Q: Ok, so Mike writes some lyrics for “Spring Vacation” …
A: It was just like Mike told me “California Girls” was. Brian said, how about a title that’s like, “Spring Vacation, easy money.” And within five minutes, Mike had written “Spring vacation, good vibrations, summer weather, we’re back together.” It was like, “Wow. Five minutes.” The next thing you know they were in the studio singing it. It was so much fun to watch. It was like, you know… that’s when I became the fan going, this is really really amazing, how these guys write together. Mike goes off… Brian’s the studio rat, and Mike likes his privacy. So Mike will come down for like an hour. He’ll absorb the session and just kind of watch. Brian will say here’s do-do-do-do-do, and come up with a bunch of melodies or just arrangements. He’ll give Mike the theme and the title, and Mike will go up… in the studio, we had an office that we kind of set up for him, and he’ll go up in the office and meditate, he’d have a notebook, and then he’d come back down with a bunch of lyrics and we’d go, boom, let’s try these. It was just fascinating.

Full interview: http://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys


So, it's like: unfortunately, The Beach Boys in general, are all capable of writing stuff that a lot of people seem to think is crap. No sense in just endlessly blaming Mike no matter what.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So... lemme get this straight. Thomas thinks "Spring Vacation" is "Lay Down Burden" a and that the latter title wasn't released on an album he co-produced with Brian some fifteen years ago. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

So... lemme get this straight. Thomas thinks "Spring Vacation" is "Lay Down Burden" a and that the latter title wasn't released on an album he co-produced with Brian some fifteen years ago.  

That's a good question. But what is straight is that regardless of anything, none of it matters when you can just blame Mike.

[phirnis]

I wish Brian and Mike would just come up with a set of relaxed and occasionally silly love songs, like Wild Honey, an album that Mike is apparently quite fond of. No big production, no allusions to either the early hits or the Pet Sounds/Smile era. Also, let Mike and Al handle most of the lead vocals with Brian's voice still high up in the mix. Too bad this is very unlikely to happen. I think it might suit them very well at this point in time.

[Micha]

What would people on here like from lyrics?  Would they want songs about "chicks and bikinis" or "Pacific Coast Highway"?  I doubt the last three songs would have been on there if Mike and Brian were writing together.

Mike wasn't given the chance to write lyrics like that. He was commissioned to write lyrics for two throwaway songs Brian had in mind, and he wrote throwaway lyrics for them. So we can't tell whether Mike has better stuff in him.

I say that if Mike Love still has the ability to write great songs, go find someone to collaborate with and do it.  And then say to the remaining Beach Boys look at this gem I've come up with, let's record it.  I get the sense that his better songwriting days are over and his songwriting focus is still on being a teenager or a T.M. state of mind, which is not going to connect with most people.

But if he did that, no matter how good it was, no one would release it :/

That's it exactly. Mike knows that the only way he can his stuff get heard is writing it with Brian.

I don't think Brian can write complete songs anymore, not the way Mike wants him to. Brian needs other collaborators to contribute to chords and melodies. Sitting around a piano and writing a song with Mike alone is in the past.

Was this post intended for the "unpopular opinions" thread?

So... lemme get this straight. Thomas thinks "Spring Vacation" is "Lay Down Burden" a and that the latter title wasn't released on an album he co-produced with Brian some fifteen years ago. 

Could be A. the journalist who wrote down and probably edited the interview made an error or B. "Lay Down Burden" was kind of a working title for this musical piece, and then the title was given to the song we now know. I mean you could sing "lay down burden" instead of "spring vacation" -  same amount of syllables. And wasn't a "Good, good, good vibrations" an early title for the piece now known as "Here Today", IIRC? Or is that a Badham error?

[John Manning]

Mike goes off… Brian’s the studio rat, and Mike likes his privacy. So Mike will come down for like an hour. He’ll absorb the session and just kind of watch. Brian will say here’s do-do-do-do-do, and come up with a bunch of melodies or just arrangements. He’ll give Mike the theme and the title, and Mike will go up… in the studio, we had an office that we kind of set up for him, and he’ll go up in the office and meditate, he’d have a notebook, and then he’d come back down with a bunch of lyrics and we’d go, boom, let’s try these.

So Mike says he wants to be in a room with just Brian … but then just walks out of it and does his own thing in his own room…?   Just no pleasing the guy… 

[Heywood]

So... lemme get this straight. Thomas thinks "Spring Vacation" is "Lay Down Burden" a and that the latter title wasn't released on an album he co-produced with Brian some fifteen years ago. 

I remember reading somewhere (?) ages ago that there was a completely different song called Lay Down Burden intended for Carl. I think later on (Imagination DVD?) the stories started getting mixed together about the Imagination released Lay Down Burden being about/for Carl.

[Jim V.]

So... lemme get this straight. Thomas thinks "Spring Vacation" is "Lay Down Burden" a and that the latter title wasn't released on an album he co-produced with Brian some fifteen years ago. 

Yeah, I can't believe you don't know that the thing called "Lay Down Your Burden" or "Lay Down Burden" from the '90s became "Spring Vacation" and that a different song altogether became "Lay Down Burden" as it is known on the Imagination album.

Of all people, I'd think you would know that.

[pixletwin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Lay Down Burden" is not the same song as the one Brian released on Imagination. My impression was the original LDB was built around what would become SPring Vacation. But after Brian set that original version aside (in 1995 or whenever) he used the title for a new song also called LDB which is what was released on Imagination. So what Thomas says is actually accurate. Right? 

[SMiLE Brian]

Yeah Pixletwin, thats how I understood it as well.

[guitarfool2002]

One aspect of this that just hit me was the shelf life of some of these song ideas, and I can see a little bit more of Mike's opinion even though I don't necessarily agree with some of the more obsessive wording he tends to use when discussing it...things like "writing in the same room" and all of that.

I guess my question is why were/are they still dipping the bucket into the well of song ideas which are nearing 20 years old at this point? I know it's a topic that has been discussed to death in similar threads here, but it's still worth a look.

Again, it's old news and I think the way Mike words it in some of these interviews can be an issue that clouds the actual sentiment. But from his perspective, maybe the idea of collaborating on a song isn't getting a fragment or a demo from 1996 and being asked to contribute.

At what point do they start with the proverbial blank page and start from scratch? And at what point does the mid-1990's well of song demos and fragments run dry, or become considered as throwaways that perhaps have been left off of a half-dozen or so projects in the last three decades for a reason? Or maybe they're just too dated to the 90's at this point to even warrant an update?

I guess if I bend the wording a bit, I share some of Mike's wishes that they start with a blank canvas rather than having Joe Thomas or whoever reach into that endless bag of old DAT tapes for the next Beach Boys song.

And ultimately it may be as telling to note that perhaps that treatment is what has been assigned to the "Beach Boys" label, as Brian's efforts for his solo projects seem to be more of a current (and personal) interest.

Just thinkin' out loud. 

[John Manning]

Well, we've ridden this wave so many times now,
The tide is going out.
An' I'm running out of clichéd rhymes now,
My role has lost its clout.

The rhymes that go with "good vibrations",
Have reached their furthest limitations,
I'm fresh right out of excitations.

We stayed too late out in the sun,
Sad to say the end has come,
for words that rhyme with "fun fun fun".

Wouldn't it be neat
to start with a clean sheet
but my creativity's beat…

Hey cousin can we start from scratch?
I'm sure we'll write a whole fresh batch,
Of summer songs to sing with glee,
I'm Captain Positiviteeeeee!

[SMiLE Brian]

I think Brian wanted to use the Joe Thomas material for the BBs in the late 1990s, but Carl's death and the Mike/Al feud delayed his plans.

[SMiLE Brian]

Take a bow, John.....

[guitarfool2002]

But at some point - and again a handful of projects later - isn't it time to try another tact? A 20 year old song idea or even a 10 year old song idea is just that, it's an old song idea coming from a different place and mindset. And, to be a little brutally honest about it, that well of material hasn't exactly been the source of any blockbuster material, in fact the whole "Imagination" era isn't exactly an unqualified success or fan favorite. Meaning simply, most fans fall somewhere in the middle with their opinions of it. And save for a few songs, it's going to disappear into history and perhaps not too many fans will be anticipating a 25 year commemorative reissue of that album. It's not even a love/hate thing, it just sits squarely in the middle of lukewarm to semi-cold opinions.

And yet, that same era is the source material for culling something new to release?

Maybe I'm in the camp that wants to hear something from that blank page starting point rather than 1990's leftovers, should anything new ever develop with this lot.

And anyone who mentions or tries to relate revisiting Smile to warming up 90's leftovers just doesn't get the point and should be relegated to spinning a stack of records on the "Peter Pan" children's label for a period of three weeks solid for penance.  

[SMiLE Brian]

I want new songs from Brian with VDP or Tony Asher, not Brian and Mike in a room....

[alf wiedersehen]

I wish Brian and Mike would just come up with a set of relaxed and occasionally silly love songs, like Wild Honey, an album that Mike is apparently quite fond of. No big production, no allusions to either the early hits or the Pet Sounds/Smile era. Also, let Mike and Al handle most of the lead vocals with Brian's voice still high up in the mix. Too bad this is very unlikely to happen. I think it might suit them very well at this point in time.

this is all i've ever wanted

[John Manning]

But at some point - and again a handful of projects later - isn't it time to try another tact? A 20 year old song idea or even a 10 year old song idea is just that, it's an old song idea coming from a different place and mindset. And, to be a little brutally honest about it, that well of material hasn't exactly been the source of any blockbuster material, in fact the whole "Imagination" era isn't exactly an unqualified success or fan favorite. Meaning simply, most fans fall somewhere in the middle with their opinions of it. And save for a few songs, it's going to disappear into history and perhaps not too many fans will be anticipating a 25 year commemorative reissue of that album. It's not even a love/hate thing, it just sits squarely in the middle of lukewarm to semi-cold opinions.

And yet, that same era is the source material for culling something new to release?

Maybe I'm in the camp that wants to hear something from that blank page starting point rather than 1990's leftovers, should anything new ever develop with this lot.

And anyone who mentions or tries to relate revisiting Smile to warming up 90's leftovers just doesn't get the point and should be relegated to spinning a stack of records on the "Peter Pan" children's label for a period of three weeks solid for penance. 

Not sure the Beach Boys have been in that clean sheet zone for decades now though. Throughout their history they rewritten, recycled, re-recorded, restarted songs and album projects. Brian's the creative dynamo of recent years (if you discount Dave and Blondie, which we really shouldn't…) and most of his albums contain retreads or covers, either of his own material or that of others. A completely fresh, original body of work is the last thing I think we can expect from Planet Beach today. 

Well, tomorrow…

[guitarfool2002]

Well, we've ridden this wave so many times now,
The tide is going out.
An' I'm running out of clichéd rhymes now,
My role has lost its clout.

The rhymes that go with "good vibrations",
Have reached their furthest limitations,
I'm fresh right out of excitations.

We stayed too late out in the sun,
Sad to say the end has come,
for words that rhyme with "fun fun fun".

Wouldn't it be neat
to start with a clean sheet
but my creativity's beat…

Hey cousin can we start from scratch?
I'm sure we'll write a whole fresh batch,
Of summer songs to sing with glee,
I'm Captain Positiviteeeeee!

Scenario #257, the phone call.

Mike thinks out loud: "Man, those lyrics are a total gas, a real knockout, an out of the box smash! I gotta call Brian.

(Ring....)

Brian: "Hello?"
Mike: "Brian! It's Mike. Look man, I got this real gasser of a song idea from a guy named John, I can juice them up a bit and we'll get some music going, how about it?"
Brian: "Well, ok, I mean I have to look at my schedule...(CLICK)
Mike: "Hello Brian, are you there?"
Joe Thomas: "Michael, we have something ready to go..."
Mike: "Joe, what the..."
Joe: "Yeah, I have a DAT tape of Brian messing around with the chords that he heard on the demonstration song that came with the Korg M1 he got back in the 90's, it's a perfect fit. I'll FedEx the DAT to you and we'll talk. K? Bye."
Mike: "Brian? Joe? What, wait...hello? Hello?"

[Cam Mott]

Just because Mike wanted write by himself during TWGMTR doesn't mean he doesn't want to write in a room with Brian. He apparently can write anywhere if he wants to like in a room with just Brian, in a motel room with the group and Fred Vail, in a car on the way to the studio with his wife, in a hallway with the group during a session, and in a room by himself. I hope he gets the opportunity before one of them dies and I hope Brian and Mike start from a blank page.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So... lemme get this straight. Thomas thinks "Spring Vacation" is "Lay Down Burden" a and that the latter title wasn't released on an album he co-produced with Brian some fifteen years ago.  

Yeah, I can't believe you don't know that the thing called "Lay Down Your Burden" or "Lay Down Burden" from the '90s became "Spring Vacation" and that a different song altogether became "Lay Down Burden" as it is known on the Imagination album.

Of all people, I'd think you would know that.

And indeed I would have not made such an erroneous statement had the original poster quoted the entire text of that part of the interview instead of selectively editing what was posted. My 50% bad.

En passant, the full interview puts to rest the spurious claim that Brian wrote "LDB" as a tribute to his brother.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just because Mike wanted write by himself during TWGMTR doesn't mean he doesn't want to write in a room with Brian. He apparently can write anywhere if he wants to like in a room with just Brian, in a motel room with the group and Fred Vail, in a car on the way to the studio with his wife, in a hallway with the group during a session, and in a room by himself. I hope he gets the opportunity before one of them dies and I hope Brian and Mike start from a blank page.

The famous "room" is metaphorical, as Mike confirmed when I asked him last summer.

[Cam Mott]

Just because Mike wanted write by himself during TWGMTR doesn't mean he doesn't want to write in a room with Brian. He apparently can write anywhere if he wants to like in a room with just Brian, in a motel room with the group and Fred Vail, in a car on the way to the studio with his wife, in a hallway with the group during a session, and in a room by himself. I hope he gets the opportunity before one of them dies and I hope Brian and Mike start from a blank page.

The famous "room" is metaphorical, as Mike confirmed when I asked him last summer.

Well good, they could branch out to together in a hot tub, garden, cave, canoe, bus [while Al waits for it], clinch, huff, minute and a huff...the mind boggles.

[guitarfool2002]

Just because Mike wanted write by himself during TWGMTR doesn't mean he doesn't want to write in a room with Brian. He apparently can write anywhere if he wants to like in a room with just Brian, in a motel room with the group and Fred Vail, in a car on the way to the studio with his wife, in a hallway with the group during a session, and in a room by himself. I hope he gets the opportunity before one of them dies and I hope Brian and Mike start from a blank page.

The famous "room" is metaphorical, as Mike confirmed when I asked him last summer.

So we can assume the rumors of Mike in 2012 renting a 1963 Ford Galaxie, hiring a female driver, climbing into the back seat of the Ford armed with a pencil, notepad, and flashlight, and asking to be driven around West L.A. at night for inspiration in an attempt to recapture the songwriting magic of 1965 are untrue?  

[John Manning]

He spent last summer riding a cab out of Salt Lake City coming up with vroom vroom vroom…