New article on Dennis

[Mr. Wilson]

Thank You Lonely Summer for you help.. Please continue with what you are doing so we can clear up this small  matter.. 

[Dove Nested Towers]

Yes Jon and Ed, thank you for the tantalizing info, perhaps Guercio can be persuaded to return his attention to the planned Legacy POB follow-up (although unfortunately the most propitious moment may have passed) now that "The Drummer" has fallen through, if enough buzz can be generated here (such is the limitless power of the mighty SS message board LOL).

[Awesoman]

I believe I read that the Denny biopic has been cancelled entirely.

[SloopJohnnyB]

I hope I didn't miss this somewhere in the thread. Does Jim Guercio need permission from the current BRI members to release the rehearsal tapes? Does Brian, Al, Mike, and Carl's estate need to sign off on it's release? I assume the answer is no but I'm not sure.  Just wondering if there will be road blocks in getting the rehearsal tapes released.

[bgas]

Hey bgas I have a problem with the musicians listed for 1983 CW dates.. The musicians listed for that date appear to be from the 1981 tour.. At Irvine the 26th there was CW.. Myrna .. Billy.. Alan Krigger..  Plus 2 other guys one on bass + one on guitar.. They were younger + dressed much different than rest of the band.. Shag hair cuts + loud clothes.. And they were both WHITE.. Gerald Johnson is black + John Daly was an older guy like the rest of CW band 81..   I say this with all sincerity .. I was there so Carl + Myrna are gone so its up to Billy Or Alan to tell us who they were.. CW did intro them but ive forgotten the names over time.. Gerald + John were not there at Irvine which is orange county.. THX

I presume this is the guys you mention in this Youtibe video?  


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJSBji0_Zo4

[Ian]

All of Carl's solo gigs are mentioned in the book Jon Stebbins and I wrote-The Beach Boys In Concert (with a nice color photo by Ed Roach taken at the 1981 Roxy show)

[Ian]

Unfortunately-I can't help here-I have a few interviews Carl did to promote his second album but he didn't mention by name who he'd have in his band.  The 83 shows didn't attract as much media attention.  I do have a review of one of the shows with America-but is just mentions Carl, Billy and Myrna by name.

[Letsgoawayforawhile]

Dennis Wilson's grandson, Dennis Wilson, was born on the 30th anniversary of his death. Spooky.

[Ian]

OK-Got some info from Billy Hinsche:  the two new musicians on that 1983 Carl Wilson tour were: Geo Connor (guitar), Michael Vila (bass). Now that he told me that-I went and looked at Billy's excellent liner notes for Youngblood and see the names listed there too!

[metal flake paint]

I have an interview promoting Youngblood, which mentions bassist Michael Vila and guitarist Eric Turner. Eric is also mentioned by name in this article, Free Rock Concert slated for Friday:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=943&dat=19860326&id=_yAPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a4MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4540,2726646


References

Carl Wilson cuts loose and takes charge on new solo LP, by Mark Mehler

[Mr. Wilson]

Elliot Randall { Steely Dan } Neil Stubbenhouse { Larry Carlton } aren't on the video.. The guitar player next to Billy and the bass player red shirt were at Irvine Meadows 1983 yes looks right.. Guitar player far right of the screen wasn't on stage + I don't know who he is ..So yea were close to solving the mystery.. Thanks bgas!!

[Mr. Wilson]

Well glad we solved the mystery+ we were posting the same time..    Thanks to bgas + Ian for help on that.. Lonely summer has some pics that he took from that show 1983 and is gonna upload them on here..  Well that was fun.. 

[Alan Smith]

Jon, wasn't it actually Steve or Stan Love who was quoted as making the "Brian's coatails" remark? It would take me a million years to dig out my old photocopy of the Rolling Stone article, but I think the Al quote you may be referring to was actually something along the lines of "Y'know, we don't need you (Dennis). We can do this without you". Dennis later said that it was Al who really "knifed" him in the heart with that remark.

Here are the key quotes from the RS article (The Beach Boys - No More Fun Fun Fun, John Swenson – Rolling Stone Magazine 10/20/77)

- (Dennis) said something to Al Jardine, the white cowboy suited Beach Boy who was still wearing his ten-gallon hat. Jardine turned on Dennis with controlled fury. "We don't need you." he said. "We can make it without you.

- "You got into this band on Brian Wilson's coattails!" Stan Love screamed as he towered over the others, gesticulating wildly, the veins in his neck bulging. "You've been riding on his coattails! I'm the one that's brought him around. I'm the one that keeps him from walking out in front of buses. And you're gonna quit on us after all that?"

- Back in the car I could still hear Stan Love screaming at Dennis that he was riding on Brian's coattails. He must have said it twenty times.

- "What's today's date?" he asked. "September 3rd? I'll remember it. The Beach Boys broke up on Al Jardine's birthday." We sat in silence for a few minutes, silence broken by Karen's indignation at the way she and her husband had been treated. "It was Al Jardine who really knifed me in the heart," Dennis responded, "when he said they didn't need me. That was the clincher. And all I told him was that he couldn't play more than four chords."

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Jon, wasn't it actually Steve or Stan Love who was quoted as making the "Brian's coatails" remark? It would take me a million years to dig out my old photocopy of the Rolling Stone article, but I think the Al quote you may be referring to was actually something along the lines of "Y'know, we don't need you (Dennis). We can do this without you". Dennis later said that it was Al who really "knifed" him in the heart with that remark.

Here are the key quotes from the RS article (The Beach Boys - No More Fun Fun Fun, John Swenson – Rolling Stone Magazine 10/20/77)

- (Dennis) said something to Al Jardine, the white cowboy suited Beach Boy who was still wearing his ten-gallon hat. Jardine turned on Dennis with controlled fury. "We don't need you." he said. "We can make it without you.

- "You got into this band on Brian Wilson's coattails!" Stan Love screamed as he towered over the others, gesticulating wildly, the veins in his neck bulging. "You've been riding on his coattails! I'm the one that's brought him around. I'm the one that keeps him from walking out in front of buses. And you're gonna quit on us after all that?"

- Back in the car I could still hear Stan Love screaming at Dennis that he was riding on Brian's coattails. He must have said it twenty times.

- "What's today's date?" he asked. "September 3rd? I'll remember it. The Beach Boys broke up on Al Jardine's birthday." We sat in silence for a few minutes, silence broken by Karen's indignation at the way she and her husband had been treated. "It was Al Jardine who really knifed me in the heart," Dennis responded, "when he said they didn't need me. That was the clincher. And all I told him was that he couldn't play more than four chords."

Please can someone post a link to the interview!

[Alan Smith]

You mean like this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.msg110359.html#msg110359

[Disney Boy (1985)]

You mean like this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.msg110359.html#msg110359

Thanks!

[retrokid67]

You mean like this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.msg110359.html#msg110359

This is what I was referring to earlier in the thread, what happened that night really sucked   

[KittyKat]

Um, don't people usually say bitter things after someone quits a band?  It's the old, "You can't quit! You're FIRED!" I never got the double standard where everything that Brian and/or Dennis Wilson would do was mostly okay, but not the other Beach Boys. Al Jardine is a basically decent guy, as is Carl Wilson, yet they often get trashed almost as much as Mike does.

[Alan Smith]

You mean like this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.msg110359.html#msg110359

This is what I was referring to earlier in the thread, what happened that night really sucked 

Yeah, a bunch of rich dudes standing around having a bitch-fight in front of a private jet after playing a major venue really does suck.

[Mr. Wilson]

You mean like this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.msg110359.html#msg110359

This is what I was referring to earlier in the thread, what happened that night really sucked 

Yea
h, a bunch of rich dudes standing around having a bitch-fight in front of a private jet after playing a major venue really does suck.

[Mr. Wilson]

   Sure wish I would have written  the above post..

[Lonely Summer]

Um, don't people usually say bitter things after someone quits a band?  It's the old, "You can't quit! You're FIRED!" I never got the double standard where everything that Brian and/or Dennis Wilson would do was mostly okay, but not the other Beach Boys. Al Jardine is a basically decent guy, as is Carl Wilson, yet they often get trashed almost as much as Mike does.

Agreed.

[c-man]

What's intersting, and what I had forgotten in the many years since I'd last read that article, is that Stan yells at Dennis for wanting to LEAVE the band...like, "Oh great, now you're quitting on us! You quitter!"  And Al's remark is also apparently in response to Dennis' threat to leaave...like, "OK fine, you wanna leave? Well go ahead, we can do this without you."  (note, these are deliberate paraphrases on my part, not deliberate misquotes)

[Cam Mott]

What's intersting, and what I had forgotten in the many years since I'd last read that article, is that Stan yells at Dennis for wanting to LEAVE the band...like, "Oh great, now you're quitting on us! You quitter!"  And Al's remark is also apparently in response to Dennis' threat to leaave...like, "OK fine, you wanna leave? Well go ahead, we can do this without you."  (note, these are deliberate paraphrases on my part, not deliberate misquotes)

Same here. Also I did not remember that Dennis seems to be saying he fired the first shot [at Al].

[Jon Stebbins]

What's intersting, and what I had forgotten in the many years since I'd last read that article, is that Stan yells at Dennis for wanting to LEAVE the band...like, "Oh great, now you're quitting on us! You quitter!"  And Al's remark is also apparently in response to Dennis' threat to leaave...like, "OK fine, you wanna leave? Well go ahead, we can do this without you."  (note, these are deliberate paraphrases on my part, not deliberate misquotes)

Well...I think it's pretty obvious what is going on here is that Dennis and Carl are suddenly being outvoted on everything. The Wilson's (first Murry...then BW, CW, DW) had basically been in control of the Beach Boys business and creative choices since the beginning. CW/DW had been relatively in control since Brian stopped caring ('68ish). That's not to say that the others didn't have input, they had plenty...but when it came down to the bottom line it was always the Wilsons in control. It was at this point (mid '77) that instead of deferring to his brothers Brian's vote was essentially given to Mike (reportedly by Marilyn). I was told by both Schilling and Guercio that Dennis and Carl felt their only leverage was to either adhere to the Love's control or threaten to leave the group unless the balance of power was restored to the Wilson bros. or at least a 50/50 type split. But they were suddenly getting overruled 3 to 2 on everything. And when they said this is not acceptable to their surprise they were told..."Go ahead and quit, we'll replace you...no problem." And it's Brian's lack of action on their part that Carl alludes to as the underlying problem.

Carl's quote...
Carl replied, "He (Dennis) knew more about it than I did. When I found out what he knew, I realized it was over. I can't tell you exactly why because of legal problems. But when I heard about what they were planning to do, the replacements they were planning to bring in for us. I heard Buddy Miles mentioned as a possible replacement for Dennis, and I suppose they felt they didn't need to replace me with another guitarist. Brian could have realized what was going on and done something about it." He didn't elaborate, but since all of the band's decisions are made by a five-man vote, he may have been referring to Brian's swing vote. It really didn't seem as though they were heading for their last concert. I asked Carl if he felt anything. special. "I feel incredibly sad," he said, Shaking his head. "My heart is broken."

I honestly think that in Aug/Sept '77 Carl and Dennis felt that the Love camp had in a sense kidnapped their brother and as long as they had him in their "possession" they didn't need the other Wilsons to hold on to the Beach Boys mantle. This was an incredible shock to the brothers. As time went on they took two different approaches to handling the fact that things would never be the same. Carl at first went off the rails, then he cleaned up, left the group, went solo, came back and went with the flow from there on. Dennis resisted as much as possible, went off the rails and never really came back. By '79 he was essentially done fighting for the upper hand ...but he needed a job so he hung in there as a drummer, for awhile, sometimes.