The Perfectionist

[retrokid67]

It amazes me how Brian can stay in a studio for 9 hours straight, redoing tracks over and over again, no wonder he got so good !  Did the other guys get tired of that and lash out?  When it came to vocal harmonies in live shows (the acapella numbers) did Denny feel left out when they had him sitting in the back ("HWFOS" Andy Williams Show) or did he or Al feel out of place when they had to sing four part harmonies and one had to lip sink over the other's voice ("In My Room" Red Skelton Show)?  Did Brian ever get on Mike for being too nasally, cause at times, he could be, which was really annoying.  Is there anything in the studio that CARL HIMSELF couldn't do right?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Nine hours straight ? Which session was that ?

[retrokid67]

I just read that in the book it was either around the Smile Era, crazy right

[Andrew G. Doe]

Page number please ?  

Oh... wait... I know - there was a quote (Nik Venet ?) about him hanging in there for however long it took, eight nine hours. Mildly exaggerated - I think the longest session we know of is something like four, four and a half hours. That would be a track session, of course: the documentation for the vocal sessions has thus far proven elusive.

Moral of this story - don't believe everything you read in books ! 

[retrokid67]

Page number please ?  

Oh... wait... I know - there was a quote (Nik Venet ?) about him hanging in there for however long it took, eight nine hours. Mildly exaggerated - I think the longest session we know of is something like four, four and a half hours. That would be a track session, of course: the documentation for the vocal sessions has thus far proven elusive.

Moral of this story - don't believe everything you read in books ! 

bare with me this might take awhile  , there's a lot of info but that particular thing stuck out in my mind and they said that he would listen to a song 20x in a row to see if it was worth putting on the album.  hold on I'll find it, it was either Pet Sounds or Smile

[retrokid67]

Page number please ?  

Oh... wait... I know - there was a quote (Nik Venet ?) about him hanging in there for however long it took, eight nine hours. Mildly exaggerated - I think the longest session we know of is something like four, four and a half hours. That would be a track session, of course: the documentation for the vocal sessions has thus far proven elusive.

Moral of this story - don't believe everything you read in books ! 

bare with me this might take awhile  , there's a lot of info but that particular thing stuck out in my mind and they said that he would listen to a song 20x in a row to see if it was worth putting on the album.  hold on I'll find it, it was either Pet Sounds or Smile

o thank God you remembered cuz I was having a hard time finding it  ; yea I had a feeling it was a bit exaggerated in the back of my mind but I didn't know how much.  I had been aware before that he would have long studio sessions.

[retrokid67]

Page number please ?  

Oh... wait... I know - there was a quote (Nik Venet ?) about him hanging in there for however long it took, eight nine hours. Mildly exaggerated - I think the longest session we know of is something like four, four and a half hours. That would be a track session, of course: the documentation for the vocal sessions has thus far proven elusive.

Moral of this story - don't believe everything you read in books ! 

bare with me this might take awhile  , there's a lot of info but that particular thing stuck out in my mind and they said that he would listen to a song 20x in a row to see if it was worth putting on the album.  hold on I'll find it, it was either Pet Sounds or Smile

o thank God you remembered cuz I was having a hard time finding it  ; yea I had a feeling it was a bit exaggerated in the back of my mind but I didn't know how much.  I had been aware before that he would have long studio sessions.

when I read your comment all I saw was "Page number please?  "  I didn't see the rest  sorry 

[Andrew G. Doe]

No need to apologise - the quote came to me about three seconds after I posted the "page number" request. 

[retrokid67]

No need to apologise - the quote came to me about three seconds after I posted the "page number" request. 

See great minds think alike  those kind of quotes stick out in our minds but do you have any insight on the guys lashing out etc.?  As much as I love Brian I would've lost patients  probably not as bad as if Denny would've with his temper of course

[Andrew G. Doe]

There's a vocal session for "Help Me, Rhonda" where it reaches something like take #32, and Alan says "THIRTY TWO ??!  God, I... HATE this song."

You really need to listen to the studio sessions (I have no idea where you'd find them, of course: that would be morally reprehensible in the extreme...  ). It's not just the band getting tetchy with Brian. Allegedly.

[retrokid67]

Oh ok cool  they have a few on YouTube for Pet Sounds and the Party Album, in fact I was listening to it earlier but I couldn't tell who was who half the time because in the 60s their speaking voices all sounded the same to me except for Mike's.  In the 70s era it's easier to pick their voices apart.  how about the 4 part harmonies? Did Denny or Al ever feel insecure, because someone awhile ago said that Dennis' vocals were prominent in the early days but as the years went on except for maybe on occasion he was in the back (for acapella performances) or not singing in the studio like in "And Your Dream Comes True".  I wish Brian could of came up with an extra harmonic blend (if that's the right term) so that no one in the group would be left out in the cold you know?  I expressed on another post that it angered me to watch the Andy Williams show when they performed "HWFOS" even though it sounded great  ; and on the Red Skelton show appearance it seemed like Al was lip sinking to Denny's part (which I would feel awkward doing if I was him  ).  also on Shindig it seemed kinda obvious that they were lip sinking to "HWFOS" and at the end Denny was lip sinking to Brian's little solo parts which was very odd...

[Russ_B66]

Did Denny or Al ever feel insecure, because someone awhile ago said that Dennis' vocals were prominent in the early days but as the years went on except for maybe on occasion he was in the back (for acapella performances) or not singing in the studio like in "And Your Dream Comes True". 

That would be a good thing because "409" near the fadeout makes a good case for never having Dennis's vocals used again on a recorded performance.

[rab2591]

There's a vocal session for "Help Me, Rhonda" where it reaches something like take #32, and Alan says "THIRTY TWO ??!  God, I... HATE this song."

Not related to a vocal take, but Carol Kaye has an anecdote about recording the backing track to Help Me Rhonda (or Ronda) - Brian kept having them play the track over and over again, so much so that Carol's fingers started to bleed. When Brian finally let them go for the night, Carol flipped him the bird as she walked out of the studio.

My favorite set of studio takes are from the 'California Girls' session - take after take gets screwed up in some way, but finally, by take 44 they finally have a perfect track. Perfectionism pays off!

As for the vocal sessions, Mike used to call Brian "dog ears" because Brian would hear the smallest mistakes and make them redo the vocal until they got it right.

[Andrew G. Doe]

That was related in a book about the Crew, and it's entirely untrue, as the session the author was describing is obviously the famous Murry-interrupted vocal session. This time, not down to her memory.

[rab2591]

That was related in a book about the Crew, and it's entirely untrue, as the session the author was describing is obviously the famous Murry-interrupted vocal session. This time, not down to her memory.

She talked about it in an interview on the Brian Wilson songwriter dvd...that's where I heard it at least.

[retrokid67]

Did Denny or Al ever feel insecure, because someone awhile ago said that Dennis' vocals were prominent in the early days but as the years went on except for maybe on occasion he was in the back (for acapella performances) or not singing in the studio like in "And Your Dream Comes True". 

That would be a good thing because "409" near the fadeout makes a good case for never having Dennis's vocals used again on a recorded performance.

I personally love the fade out of "409" but maybe that's just me being a fan girl  .  For me, the background vocal harmonies that annoy me the most is on "Got To Know The Woman" .  I don't know if those are girls doin that...or Bruce Johnston...ugh...I hope it wasn't Carl.  usually I get tired of Mike's "papa oo maw maws" but it actually worked in that song.

[metal flake paint]

Did Denny or Al ever feel insecure, because someone awhile ago said that Dennis' vocals were prominent in the early days but as the years went on except for maybe on occasion he was in the back (for acapella performances) or not singing in the studio like in "And Your Dream Comes True". 

That would be a good thing because "409" near the fadeout makes a good case for never having Dennis's vocals used again on a recorded performance.

I personally love the fade out of "409" but maybe that's just me being a fan girl  .  For me, the background vocal harmonies that annoy me the most is on "Got To Know The Woman" .  I don't know if those are girls doin that...or Bruce Johnston...ugh...I hope it wasn't Carl.  usually I get tired of Mike's "papa oo maw maws" but it actually worked in that song.

"The rest of the backing vocals involved a massed choir of several Beach Boys and some studio ringers. Julia Tillman, Carolyn Willis, and Edna Wright added their feminine touch to the song at Sunset Sound on February 14th, 1969."

http://recordingsunflower.blogspot.com.au/2008/02/track-4-got-to-know-woman.html

[retrokid67]

Did Denny or Al ever feel insecure, because someone awhile ago said that Dennis' vocals were prominent in the early days but as the years went on except for maybe on occasion he was in the back (for acapella performances) or not singing in the studio like in "And Your Dream Comes True". 

That would be a good thing because "409" near the fadeout makes a good case for never having Dennis's vocals used again on a recorded performance.

I personally love the fade out of "409" but maybe that's just me being a fan girl  .  For me, the background vocal harmonies that annoy me the most is on "Got To Know The Woman" .  I don't know if those are girls doin that...or Bruce Johnston...ugh...I hope it wasn't Carl.  usually I get tired of Mike's "papa oo maw maws" but it actually worked in that song.

"The rest of the backing vocals involved a massed choir of several Beach Boys and some studio ringers. Julia Tillman, Carolyn Willis, and Edna Wright added their feminine touch to the song at Sunset Sound on February 14th, 1969."

http://recordingsunflower.blogspot.com.au/2008/02/track-4-got-to-know-woman.html

Oh ok cool, thanks for the website    I still hate those high pitched voices  but I'm in love with Denny's vocals on the song, it's my favorite upbeat song of his with "Slip On Through" a close second  from that album anyway.

[Russ_B66]

I really like Dennis's contributions to Sunflower a lot. "Got to Know the Woman" is pretty amusing. I love the track and the vocals too.

[Micha]

No need to apologise - the quote came to me about three seconds after I posted the "page number" request. 

See great minds think alike  those kind of quotes stick out in our minds but do you have any insight on the guys lashing out etc.?  As much as I love Brian I would've lost patients  probably not as bad as if Denny would've with his temper of course

If Al had become a dentist, how many patients would he have lost attending a vocal session?

[sockittome]

No need to apologise - the quote came to me about three seconds after I posted the "page number" request. 

See great minds think alike  those kind of quotes stick out in our minds but do you have any insight on the guys lashing out etc.?  As much as I love Brian I would've lost patients  probably not as bad as if Denny would've with his temper of course

If Al had become a dentist, how many patients would he have lost attending a vocal session?

            

[Don Malcolm]

"You'll hear it in a dentist's chair/But Dr. Jardine won't be there..." 

[SMiLE Brian]

brillant....

[Ron]

Brian wasn't a perfectionist, the Beach Boys catalog is full of mistakes in songs.  Bum notes, guys singing the wrong lines, Brian off key himself, sloppy recordings with backround noise or chatter, etc. 

He just wanted things to sound how he imagined them, or was using the studio as a place to 'write'.   Perfectionist implies that he wanted everything exactly right, which wasn't the case at all.  A lot of the 'magic' that makes the Beach Boys sound so great were happy accidents, or stuff that was pretty much improvised on the spot by a member of the band or one of the boys. 

[urbanite]

There's Brian before he went into the complete downward spiral of drugs and depression, who was a perfectionist, and then a very different guy when he emerged from years and years of drugs and damage to himself, who often made/makes mistakes.