Mike Love's Nelson Mandela Facebook Post

[CenturyDeprived]

Why all the negativity?  Both Smart Girls and Hey Little Tomboy are great songs. Always taking them out of context isn't the answer.

I love those songs too (or at least HLT as a guilty pleasure)... but seeing some peoples' reactions to the "wackier" side of the BBs can be more than a bit humorous. I try to give them a bit of context too, telling them a few tidbits of info as far as where the band was at (career-wise/Landy-wise) when these were recorded. The BBs are my fave band, I'm not trying to ruin them for anyone, but they have a wacky/amusing side, the likes of which are tough to find comparison to. Mind you, I also try to tell them about the undeniably great BB songs too

[Heysaboda]

Why all the negativity?  Both Smart Girls and Hey Little Tomboy are great songs. Always taking them out of context isn't the answer.

"They're doin' it all over the world....."

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Since it was 1981, was Carl at that show? And was Brian there? If Carl wasn't there, did he comment on the BBs playing there? I doubt it.

Respectively... no, yes, and not that I know of.

[Cam Mott]

So is the Facebook comment the actual quote? The full quote?

[metal flake paint]

Interestingly, in the "Carl Wilson - Here and Now" DVD, Gerry Beckley mentions that Carl would use the word "inappropriate" when he didn't agree with something. According to Gerry, Carl commented that The Beach Boys tour of South Africa was inappropriate.


References

Hinsche, B. (Producer/Director), & Latshaw, S. (Co-Producer). (2011). Carl Wilson - Here and now [DVD]. United States: MFM Productions.

[CenturyDeprived]

So is the Facebook comment the actual quote? The full quote?

That's the full extent of the quote, as it appears on page 268 of Jon and Ian's book. I assume it comes from a larger interview of some sort, and it is apparently sourced from the Oklahoman, and the original interviewer was Gene Triplett. I couldn't seem to come up with more in a Google search, but maybe Jon could chime in with more info if there is any.

[chrs_mrgn]

Those are some very nice words from Mike.

We talked about Mandela today in class and half of the students didn't even know who he was...

[bgas]

Those are some very nice words from Mike.

We talked about Mandela today in class and half of the students didn't even know who he was...

Nobody in the third grade here knew him either

[Rocky Raccoon]

I'll cut Mike some slack.  America's treatment of apartheid as a whole was a complete mess and the US press and government were never kind to Mandela until his presidency.  He like many had a warped view of what was actually going on and remember, the Beach Boys were staunch Reagan supporters and Reagan certainly wasn't doing South Africa any favors.

[CenturyDeprived]

Interestingly, in the "Carl Wilson - Here and Now" DVD, Gerry Beckley mentions that Carl would use the word "inappropriate" when he didn't agree with something. According to Gerry, Carl commented that The Beach Boys tour of South Africa was inappropriate.


References

Hinsche, B. (Producer/Director), & Latshaw, S. (Co-Producer). (2011). Carl Wilson - Here and now [DVD]. United States: MFM Productions.

I feel pretty confident in thinking that the BBs wouldn't have played those shows if Carl was in the band at the time. And if Carl was somehow convinced to have played the shows, I also doubt Mike would've ran his mouth off the way he did (as a mouthpiece for the band) so crassly in that interview. When the moral conscience of the band is away, strange things happen(ed).

[Shady]

It seems Gabo missed a bit of the post..

It actually ended like this

"Mandela showed by example the enormous power and potential of positivity. He leaves a great legacy and lesson to the world. Rest in Peace Madiba, your positivity lives on, positivity like when i wrote the words to Good Vibrations and I Get Around".

ML

[Kurosawa]

ML makes a classy and well thought out comment on the passing of a major world figure, and people bring up something he said and did 32 years ago. And Saint Brian and the martyr Dennis were there too.

Let it go is the expression needed here. Everyone makes mistakes. Queen played there too.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I am skeptical that Mike personally writes these Facebook posts. Maybe he approves them. Seems just like PR babble to me. Course, I am wrong about something each and every day.

[Mike's Beard]

Again, why should you refuse to play in a country because you don't agree with it's politics? How would you feel as fans if Brian/The BB's refused to play anymore gigs in the US because they disagreed with the Obama regime?

[Robbie Mac]

Again, why should you refuse to play in a country because you don't agree with it's politics.

Apartheid went beyond politics. It can be argued by some that performing there implies support for the country's policies.  It was their choice and decision to play Sun City, yes. And in having done that  those who didn't approve of Apartheid have every right to question the integrity of not just the Beach Boys but every other act that performed at that resort.

[Mike's Beard]

I see what you are saying but it's quite a leap for someone to assume that just because a band is willing to tour in a segregated country that they automatically support it's apartheid policies. Mike sees himself as an entertainer first and foremost and must have felt that a Countries political situation had no bearing on his right to go there and perform to fans of the band (and yes make a buck in doing so).

[The Shift]

ML makes a classy and well thought out comment on the passing of a major world figure, and people bring up something he said and did 32 years ago. And Saint Brian and the martyr Dennis were there too.

Let it go is the expression needed here. Everyone makes mistakes. Queen played there too.

Who was it said "let bygones be bygones"? Some famous fellow… let me think…

[Andrew G. Doe]

I am skeptical that Mike personally writes these Facebook posts. Maybe he approves them. Seems just like PR babble to me. Course, I am wrong about something each and every day.

Yet, everyone who jumped up and down on his LA Times explanation last fall of why C50 ended as it did assumed without doubt that he wrote that*. Seems to be a simple rule of thumb: if it's well-considered and expressed, Mike couldn't have written it... unless it reinforces the perceived view of him, in which case, of course he did. Believe it's called "having your cake and eating it".  

[* just as many assumed Brian actually penned his response: I've no doubt whatsoever that he dictated the basic thrust, read the resulting text and approved it, just as I've no doubt whatsoever he didn't physically write a word of it.]

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I am skeptical that Mike personally writes these Facebook posts. Maybe he approves them. Seems just like PR babble to me. Course, I am wrong about something each and every day.

Yet, everyone who jumped up and down on his LA Times explanation last fall of why C50 ended as it did assumed without doubt that he wrote that*. Seems to be a simple rule of thumb: if it's well-considered and expressed, Mike couldn't have written it... unless it reinforces the perceived view of him, in which case, of course he did. Believe it's called "having your cake and eating it". 

[* just as many assumed Brian actually penned his response: I've no doubt whatsoever that he dictated the basic thrust, read the resulting text and approved it, just as I've no doubt whatsoever he didn't physically write a word of it.]

You argue with nothing factual to add. Might as well be tweeting that you are on a bus. Having read and listened to many, many ML interviews, talked to the man, it just doesn't have the Mike tone. I have no doubt he approved it, maybe made a change or two. Could be his wife, a daughter, PR person.

Now you are going to tell me the Queen writes all her speeches. Course, you seem to love to argue about anything. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Strange     but whatever floats your boat AGD.

[Autotune]

Playing Sun City does not equal approving appartheid.

Playing Chekoslovakia in the late 60s did not equal approving its regime.

[CenturyDeprived]

Playing Sun City does not equal approving appartheid.  

No it doesn't.

But additionally verbally giving the middle finger to the UN in such a 110% unempathetic manner, is a disgusting thing to have said, and colors ML's actions in a particularly negative light. I just want to know what goes through someone's mind, as a public figure, when they say something like that. What possible way could that quote have been taken to mean (either in 1981 or in 2013) other than "screw everybody, screw anybody's plight... we only care about money"? That's far worse than saying "we take an apolitical stance". It's actively saying "I GIVE NO F*CK" about people involved in a very, very sensitive situation. That's a straight up, unjustifiable pr*ck thing to say, and it borders on taunting. And it pisses me off that it can't just be universally acknowledged by BB fans as a pr*ck thing for ML to have said. Does that mean that Mike doesn't deserve to live, or that we have to discard his contributions to the BBs? No, of course not. But we can say that it was a mega, mega-sh*tty thing to say.

Find me another celebrity who said something at the time as disgustingly crass and aggressively hostile related to the South Africa situation, who then has the chutzpah to casually praise Mandela on FB 30 years later (with zero acknowledgement of said disgustingly crass quote) under the auspice of that celebrity being a kind, gentle, considerate person, and I'll eat my hat (or I'll steal one of Mike's and eat it). It's Mike's 2013 PR machine trying to paint him as a nice guy, and trying to revise history by sweeping it under the rug. Mike might be the least self-aware celeb outside of Kanye West. Now, if 2013 Mike made a semblance of acknowledgement/regret of his past quote (which I assume he would claim ignorance of, or that he has forgotten it), it wouldn't be near as bad in my eyes.

*Mandatory note for the Kokomaoists who will want to continue to defend Mike's quote by saying that everyone else (sans Carl) in the band is just a big a butthole for having played Sun City: I know that Brian also had a Mandela post on his FB page (and that he too played Sun City in 1981). And while I absolutely believe there is some degree of hypocrisy there, Brian never made it worse by saying anything crass about having played there at the time (nor would a quote like ML's 1981 quote) be in his character to have said. Lest anyone accuse me (or others agreeing with my stance) of having some "grudge" to paint Mike in a negative light:  

If Mike had NOT said such a quote at the time, and then in 2013 both him and Brian posted about Mandela, I wouldn't feel nearly as irritated against Mike about the topic... and IMO, both Brian and Mike would be in the same boat of some hypocrisy, but that we don't necessarily know all the facts about their justification/thoughts about why they played the show. Obviously, it is just a brief quote, and not some multi-page essay by 1981 Mike trying to justify why they played there - but it still is a quote that is probably very close to being at the bottom of the barrel of the worst of the worst from this band.

For Mike's most ardent defenders: It's *okay* to sometimes acknowledge that the man acted like an unconscionable ass at certain times throughout his career.
 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

C'mon CD, the RnR HOF debacle never happened. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]