Artists getting screwed by executives

[Magic Transistor Radio]

In the past year, I have watched 2 music documentaries where artists get ripped by others more then I ever imagined.

First was 'Sugar Man'. A folk singer/song writer from Detroit named Sixto Rodriguez recorded music in the early 70s. He never even made it big in his home town. So he quit music to do constuction. Meanwhile, a fan that bought his lp went back to their home town of South Africa. They shared it with there friends and after a while his music became a voice of a generation for South Africa. The Bob Dylan of their country, and as popular as anyone in music there. Someone was making a lot of money from sales in South Africa. I suppose he didn't want to share the wealth with anyone so he didn't tell Sixto Rodriguez. A story came out in South Africa that Sixto had died. A media member from South Africa wanted to find out more about Sixto. When he found out his home town was Detroit, he was stunned that Sixto was alive. And Sixto was surprised that he was famous in another country!

The second was 'I Want My Name Back', which was about the first recording hip hop group The Sugar Hill Gang consisting of members that called themselves Master Gee and Wonder Mike. The people that signed them ripped them off big time. First, they put their names on writing and producing credits of the songs which they had little or nothing to do with. They were written by Master Gee and Wonder Mike. Then when their first 3 albums (or singles?) went platinum, the executives were making millions, while the rappers were stuggling to pay rent. Eventually, they had to quit touring and get new jobs. About 15 years later, old school rap was making a come back. The executives called up the Master Gee and Wonder Mike about a reunion tour. When Master Gee and Wonder Mike refused to work with them, the executives legally took the name The Sugar Hill Gang, and Master Gee and Wonder Mike, and to this day tour under those names. The original Master Gee and Wonder Mike were surprised to see their old record publishers taking their identity. When they tried to go on tour themselves, they got in trouble for using their own names!

Anyway, I am not sure if anyone has seen one or both of these documentaries, but it opened my eyes as to how low some people can go. Though, I suppose to an extent, there have been similar stories in the Beach Boys world. Murray Wilson making sure The Marksmen didn't succeed. Murray Wilson selling the Sea of Tunes catilog. Murray not giving credit to Mike for his lyrics. But with the Beach Boys, they still made a lot of money, just not as much as they could have.

I found these documentaries shocking because the executives were making millions while paying nothing to the artists.

What are some of the worst screw jobs you have heard about in the music business?

[JohnMill]

In the past year, I have watched 2 music documentaries where artists get ripped by others more then I ever imagined.

First was 'Sugar Man'. A folk singer/song writer from Detroit named Sixto Rodriguez recorded music in the early 70s. He never even made it big in his home town. So he quit music to do constuction. Meanwhile, a fan that bought his lp went back to their home town of South Africa. They shared it with there friends and after a while his music became a voice of a generation for South Africa. The Bob Dylan of their country, and as popular as anyone in music there. Someone was making a lot of money from sales in South Africa. I suppose he didn't want to share the wealth with anyone so he didn't tell Sixto Rodriguez. A story came out in South Africa that Sixto had died. A media member from South Africa wanted to find out more about Sixto. When he found out his home town was Detroit, he was stunned that Sixto was alive. And Sixto was surprised that he was famous in another country!

The second was 'I Want My Name Back', which was about the first recording hip hop group The Sugar Hill Gang consisting of members that called themselves Master Gee and Wonder Mike. The people that signed them ripped them off big time. First, they put their names on writing and producing credits of the songs which they had little or nothing to do with. They were written by Master Gee and Wonder Mike. Then when their first 3 albums (or singles?) went platinum, the executives were making millions, while the rappers were stuggling to pay rent. Eventually, they had to quit touring and get new jobs. About 15 years later, old school rap was making a come back. The executives called up the Master Gee and Wonder Mike about a reunion tour. When Master Gee and Wonder Mike refused to work with them, the executives legally took the name The Sugar Hill Gang, and Master Gee and Wonder Mike, and to this day tour under those names. The original Master Gee and Wonder Mike were surprised to see their old record publishers taking their identity. When they tried to go on tour themselves, they got in trouble for using their own names!

Anyway, I am not sure if anyone has seen one or both of these documentaries, but it opened my eyes as to how low some people can go. Though, I suppose to an extent, there have been similar stories in the Beach Boys world. Murray Wilson making sure The Marksmen didn't succeed. Murray Wilson selling the Sea of Tunes catilog. Murray not giving credit to Mike for his lyrics. But with the Beach Boys, they still made a lot of money, just not as much as they could have.

I found these documentaries shocking because the executives were making millions while paying nothing to the artists.

What are some of the worst screw jobs you have heard about in the music business?

Both Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty almost had their careers snuffed out by their record labels or management in the early seventies.  Both were involved in protracted legal tangles which prohibited them from being able to record music in the studio and even perform live.  Both artists eventually won out in the end but both lawsuits were pretty newsworthy items at the time.

[guitarfool2002]

Without even naming specifics, you could fill a library with examples because it's the nature of the business and somehow "accepted" by everyone because it's just how it's done. Even The Beatles got ripped off in publishing.

How about Elvis' management and the way they would force songwriters to sign ridiculous contracts before Elvis would record their song? It's funny to read how some writers like Jerry Reed reacted to this, especially when the story goes he came in looking like he had just come off of a fishing trip and the Elvis people hit him up with this nonsense for his tunes like "Guitar Man" and "US Male". Same with producer Chips Moman when Elvis went to the studio in the late 60's to record with him and the hit-making session players Chips had assembled, and they tried to get papers signed.

It's the same old story of those with no talent leeching off of those with talent, and basically saying if you don't like it, take a walk.

As far as specifics, how about Archie Bell, of "Archie Bell And The Drells"? Archie himself went to Vietnam just after recording a new rap over a demo of a song he had cut a few years before, with "The Drells". He was wounded in Vietnam, and got sent to a military hospital in Germany to recover. As he was recovering from the injuries, the record started to catch fire in the US where DJ's who had been promoting the flip side started to latch onto "Tighten Up", and it became a monster hit.

It was perhaps the only smash hit record to become that successful while the singer was recovering from wounds he received in Vietnam.

Then the trouble began when all kinds of fake "Archie Bell and the Drells" bands started showing up on tours and making appearances. Archie himself was still in the military, and a world away...he couldn't do anything despite petitioning the service for a series of official leaves (breaks) so he could go to the US and straighten all of it out, as well as possibly cut a follow-up as the real "Drells", rather than the imposters.

Yet since Archie was so removed from the music scene, and contracted for at least another year of military service, lots of people made money as these bogus "Drells" toured around claiming to be the ones on the hit record. By the time Archie got out, it was too late and the fire was out, so to speak, for getting more hits out there as follow-ups.

So there is a guy, he gets wounded in Vietnam, is recovering, and hears about his smash hit record which a variety of bands and singers claiming to be him in the US are touring behind and making money on totally false claims. Some of his own Army buddies apparently have a hard time believing that it's his voice on "Tighten Up".

Hard to beat that one.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Badfinger had some problems with their business manager. Sadly, Pete Ham was so distraught he committed suicide.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

So sad. I have also heard that the motown players weren't treated well. They were not as organized as the wrecking crew. Is this true?

[Lonely Summer]

It is the rule, rather than the exception, for artists to get screwed in the biz.

[Alex]

Frankie Lymon got royally screwed over by Morris Levy...Levy putting his name on Why Do Fools Fall In Love and getting all the money from it.

[guitarfool2002]

Levy did that to everyone.

[bgas]

Levy did that to everyone.

at least he didn't play favorites

[Mr. Wilson]

What actually happened to Badfinger  ?

[Lonely Summer]

What actually happened to Badfinger  ?

They had a manager, Stan Polley,  who ripped them off, made millions while the band lived in squalor. He was also the manager for Al Kooper and Lou Christie. The band's mentor, Bill Collins, got them signed to Apple, but my impression is that he was in over his head, so Polley was hired to manage the band's affairs. Of course, it's worth noting that Apple was being run by Allen Klein, as ruthless a business man as you could ever meet, and he let Badfinger get away after a few years on Apple. Badfinger was by the far the biggest selling non-Beatle act on Apple, but they ended up signing with Warners in 1973. The guys ended up broke, Pete Ham killed himself in 1975, and Tom Evans did the same in 1983. In fact, Joey Molland is the lone surviving member of the classic lineup. Mike Gibbins passed away in his sleep in 2006. They made great music while they were together, though. Not many bands have had that many strong writers and singers in the same lineup - no wonder they were compared with the Beatles.

[smile-holland]

In the past year, I have watched 2 music documentaries where artists get ripped by others more then I ever imagined.

First was 'Sugar Man'. A folk singer/song writer from Detroit named Sixto Rodriguez recorded music in the early 70s. He never even made it big in his home town. So he quit music to do constuction. Meanwhile, a fan that bought his lp went back to their home town of South Africa. They shared it with there friends and after a while his music became a voice of a generation for South Africa. The Bob Dylan of their country, and as popular as anyone in music there. Someone was making a lot of money from sales in South Africa. I suppose he didn't want to share the wealth with anyone so he didn't tell Sixto Rodriguez. A story came out in South Africa that Sixto had died. A media member from South Africa wanted to find out more about Sixto. When he found out his home town was Detroit, he was stunned that Sixto was alive. And Sixto was surprised that he was famous in another country!

Funny that you mention this one. I hadn't thought someone else on this board would have actually seen this docu or even have heard of him at all. I bought the dvd of this doc in South Africa when I visited Cape Town last Aug./Sept. It's both a sad and fullfilling story to watch. Sad because of the missed opportunities, but the positive side is that at the end the story has come full circle. 1000’s of fans (of all ages) finally got to see their hero when he did several sold out performances in S.A.. And Sixto humbly accepted all the media attention and finally got the honour he well-deserved. And after that?... he went back to his home town to do his construction work… 

The search for “Sugarman” started in the early 90ies, when the internet wasn’t that huge yet. Bear in mind that all they had were those 2 LP’s including the limited info on the cover, and Sixto’s lyrics to start the search with. It’s the lyrics especially that made him so popular there in the 70ies. They matched perfectly with the turbulence within the youth culture towards the government and the political direction of the country. Songs on his records were censored (scratched) if the government got hold of them. Plus that the rumours on his untimely death had become mythical (he had either shot himself to death, or set fire to himself on stage in front of his audience, displeased with the total disinterest of his audience)

I really recommend checking this docu out.

[Mr. Wilson]

Thank you for Badfinger info.. JEEZ what a sad story..!!  They were awfully good band in their day.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Thank you for Badfinger info.. JEEZ what a sad story..!!  They were awfully good band in their day.

More in this article.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/badfinger-last-act-in-a-rocknroll-tragedy-8590656.html

[Mr. Wilson]

Thanks for the article.. What a sad story that ended tragic  .Suicide is not the answer but the devastation caused by their  lack of advisors attorneys etc  is mind boggling. Their songs are still played on the radio today so that's a testament to real talent. The scumbag that managed them how does he sleep at night.? I wouldn't want his karma.!! They deserve some promotion and a multi disk set and the money goin to the kids. Without You has been covered 180 times.? WOW..!  That's their Free Bird. !

[guitarfool2002]

Badfinger got a whole new audience just this fall, when Breaking Bad used for the show's finale the Badfinger song "Baby Blue", which is a terrific song, and the lyrics just happened to fit in almost perfectly if not eerily to the final scene in which it was used. That was, again, almost eerie in how the song, from the title to the lyrics to the overall mood of the record, told the story of the show as it came to a close.

And when such a song gets aired on AMC, and packs that powerful of an emotional punch, literally thousands of viewers head to the 'net to find out what the song is, and usually end up then hitting iTunes to download a copy. Badfinger deserved this one, for sure. Great band, just screwed over from reaching the potential they showed from their beginnings as The Iveys on Apple.

[Lonely Summer]

There was a long time when no Badfinger records or cd's were on the market, but that's all changed now. The Apple cd's are available, and the families of the members are getting paid. If Pete and Tom could have gotten themselves through the rough times, they'd be doing quite well today. Just a shame that they chose to go the way they did.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Badfinger got a whole new audience just this fall, when Breaking Bad used for the show's finale the Badfinger song "Baby Blue", which is a terrific song, and the lyrics just happened to fit in almost perfectly if not eerily to the final scene in which it was used. That was, again, almost eerie in how the song, from the title to the lyrics to the overall mood of the record, told the story of the show as it came to a close.

And when such a song gets aired on AMC, and packs that powerful of an emotional punch, literally thousands of viewers head to the 'net to find out what the song is, and usually end up then hitting iTunes to download a copy. Badfinger deserved this one, for sure. Great band, just screwed over from reaching the potential they showed from their beginnings as The Iveys on Apple.

That final scene was powerful

[SMiLE Brian]

The Beatles had Brian Epstein screw up their Merch rights.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

This is one of the most depressing stories out there:

http://www.laweekly.com/1999-04-01/music/for-the-record/

[D409]

How about this one - Bill Nelson has never been paid properly (or at all) for his sterling work with Be Bop Deluxe :

http://www.jagshouse.com/music/billnelson.html

[Mr. Wilson]

Oh my GOD Bill Nelson another Badfinger without the tragic end..I OWNED the 1st half dozen BEE BOP DELUXE lp"s..They were very good + Inventive. And a fine guitar player..I wondered what happened to him in the mid 80"s. Lost track of him.. And those lp"s sold well in the USA..I didn't pay the money to line EMI"s pocket.. I payed it to BILL NELSON so he could continue to create more music..This SUCKS..!!!!!!!!!!

[Magic Transistor Radio]

In the past year, I have watched 2 music documentaries where artists get ripped by others more then I ever imagined.

First was 'Sugar Man'. A folk singer/song writer from Detroit named Sixto Rodriguez recorded music in the early 70s. He never even made it big in his home town. So he quit music to do constuction. Meanwhile, a fan that bought his lp went back to their home town of South Africa. They shared it with there friends and after a while his music became a voice of a generation for South Africa. The Bob Dylan of their country, and as popular as anyone in music there. Someone was making a lot of money from sales in South Africa. I suppose he didn't want to share the wealth with anyone so he didn't tell Sixto Rodriguez. A story came out in South Africa that Sixto had died. A media member from South Africa wanted to find out more about Sixto. When he found out his home town was Detroit, he was stunned that Sixto was alive. And Sixto was surprised that he was famous in another country!

Funny that you mention this one. I hadn't thought someone else on this board would have actually seen this docu or even have heard of him at all. I bought the dvd of this doc in South Africa when I visited Cape Town last Aug./Sept. It's both a sad and fullfilling story to watch. Sad because of the missed opportunities, but the positive side is that at the end the story has come full circle. 1000’s of fans (of all ages) finally got to see their hero when he did several sold out performances in S.A.. And Sixto humbly accepted all the media attention and finally got the honour he well-deserved. And after that?... he went back to his home town to do his construction work… 

The search for “Sugarman” started in the early 90ies, when the internet wasn’t that huge yet. Bear in mind that all they had were those 2 LP’s including the limited info on the cover, and Sixto’s lyrics to start the search with. It’s the lyrics especially that made him so popular there in the 70ies. They matched perfectly with the turbulence within the youth culture towards the government and the political direction of the country. Songs on his records were censored (scratched) if the government got hold of them. Plus that the rumours on his untimely death had become mythical (he had either shot himself to death, or set fire to himself on stage in front of his audience, displeased with the total disinterest of his audience)

I really recommend checking this docu out.

Yes. In the end, it is a happy story. I just can't get over the scum bag that made up a story about Sexto killing himself. Probably that the royalties would go directly to them. But it is a great documentary I watched in the theater.

[Lonely Summer]

The Beatles had Brian Epstein screw up their Merch rights.

The Beatles didn't do too badly overall, though. Brian was a better manager than a lot of characters out there.

[D409]

In the past year, I have watched 2 music documentaries where artists get ripped by others more then I ever imagined.

First was 'Sugar Man'. A folk singer/song writer from Detroit named Sixto Rodriguez recorded music in the early 70s. He never even made it big in his home town. So he quit music to do constuction. Meanwhile, a fan that bought his lp went back to their home town of South Africa. They shared it with there friends and after a while his music became a voice of a generation for South Africa. The Bob Dylan of their country, and as popular as anyone in music there. Someone was making a lot of money from sales in South Africa. I suppose he didn't want to share the wealth with anyone so he didn't tell Sixto Rodriguez. A story came out in South Africa that Sixto had died. A media member from South Africa wanted to find out more about Sixto. When he found out his home town was Detroit, he was stunned that Sixto was alive. And Sixto was surprised that he was famous in another country!

Funny that you mention this one. I hadn't thought someone else on this board would have actually seen this docu or even have heard of him at all. I bought the dvd of this doc in South Africa when I visited Cape Town last Aug./Sept. It's both a sad and fullfilling story to watch. Sad because of the missed opportunities, but the positive side is that at the end the story has come full circle. 1000’s of fans (of all ages) finally got to see their hero when he did several sold out performances in S.A.. And Sixto humbly accepted all the media attention and finally got the honour he well-deserved. And after that?... he went back to his home town to do his construction work… 

The search for “Sugarman” started in the early 90ies, when the internet wasn’t that huge yet. Bear in mind that all they had were those 2 LP’s including the limited info on the cover, and Sixto’s lyrics to start the search with. It’s the lyrics especially that made him so popular there in the 70ies. They matched perfectly with the turbulence within the youth culture towards the government and the political direction of the country. Songs on his records were censored (scratched) if the government got hold of them. Plus that the rumours on his untimely death had become mythical (he had either shot himself to death, or set fire to himself on stage in front of his audience, displeased with the total disinterest of his audience)

I really recommend checking this docu out.

Yes. In the end, it is a happy story. I just can't get over the scum bag that made up a story about Sexto killing himself. Probably that the royalties would go directly to them. But it is a great documentary I watched in the theater.

Agreed, it's a great documentary, and it introduced me to a brilliant artist whose work I was previously unaware of.
Every time I meet a South African, I ask them about Rodriguez and if his music is as important in South Africa as the documentary suggests, and the answer is always a resounding "yes" !