Farfisa Combo or Vox Continental

[c-man]

Any opinions on whether the transistorized organ sounds on such cuts as "Wendy" and "Please Let Me Wonder" was a Farfisa Combo or a Vox Continental"?  The Vox is clearly seen in the onstage shot gracing page 113 of the Badman book, and Googling around, the previaling opinion seems to be that a Farfisa was utlized for "Wild Honey".

[monicker]

I got that it was a Farfisa on PLMW from you!

And what about Little Honda? 

[guitarfool2002]

Check this out:

Wendy organ solo, on this video listen at 1:12  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZeCXh0hLWc

The Monkees' 'Little Bit Me...' organ solo, listen at 1:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyTTpNdkZOU


Same tone on both. Wendy, that was Brian on organ? Artie Butler is the session player credited on the "Little Bit Me" organ solo.

I've heard a Hammond drawbar/tonewheel organ from the B, C, or M series can nail that tone, I'm guessing Wendy was a Hammond tonewheel organ, probably a standard B3. Originally I thought it was  Farfisa too in both cases.

Just a guess! 

[guitarfool2002]

Also, these timelines can be erratic but I don't think the Vox Continental would have been around in LA in April '64 when Brian cut that one, or if it was then it was one of the very, very few to have made it to the US. I don't believe Vox had struck their distribution deal in the US at that time, and notice there was an explosion of the Continentals being used on American pop and garage recordings as soon as the musicians could buy them in the US, especially after 1966.

I'm sure anyone who has looked into the "who played what" issues on keyboard recordings from the 60's can vouch for what a minefield it can be where the keyboardists themselves might remember playing one keyboard, when it was really another, or the band who had an endorsement deal with Farfisa to play those live actually used something else "the studio had laying around" for the classic record...and memories are all over the place at that point.

Just try to find out what organ or keyboard instrument was played for that "trumpet" stop sound on Terry Stafford's "Suspicion"...I'm still recovering from that experience, and still don't have an answer. 

[guitarfool2002]

Just one more addition to consider when trying to ID some of these transistor organ sounds from the 60's, I'm sure those interested in this stuff have heard this story.

"96 Tears" by ? and the Mysterions, one of the all-time classic organ riffs in all of rock history. The organ player was 14 years old at the time, Frank Rodriguez. When you hear that organ, it could be a Farfisa Compact or a Vox Continental. Many assumed it was a Farfisa, many credits list a Vox, you can actually get a sound very close to the original record on either one.

It gets confusing when "new information" comes out, like the revelation that there was both a Vox Continental AND a Farfisa Compact at that session, one belonging to Frank and the other owned by whoever owned the room.

So which did the 14-year-old keyboardist Frank actually use on 96 Tears? Someone revealed that Frank may have used both organs at the studio that day, perhaps both even on the same song at different sections, but who knows which one on what song, or take, or whatever.

Then a road manager in an interview when asked thought it was a Lowery...don't know about that one.

Again it goes back to "what organ is played on '96 Tears' or any of the other classics?".

Confusing.

[DonnyL]

my guesses:

"Wendy", "Please Let  Me Wonder", "Little Honda": Hammond.

"Wild Honey", "How She Boogalooed It": Vox Continental or Baldwin organ.

[c-man]

I got that it was a Farfisa on PLMW from you!

And what about Little Honda? 

Yeah, on my beachboysarchives.com website essay for "Today!", I listed the "PMLW" solo as being a Farfisa, based on what it sounds like, compared to the Hammond that Don Randi played on the basic track...but delving into the history of the Vox and Farfisa brands makes me wonder...oh, and "Don't Back Down" is another one...that SO sounds like a plastic, transistorized organ if I've ever heard one!

[guitarfool2002]

Those thinner-sounding, is "reedy" the right description (?), tones like Wendy or the Monkees tracks that sound more like a transistor organ can be found on Hammond tonewheel models by the way the drawbars are set. It's also confusing to pin down even the classic Hammond sound that everyone assumes was a B3 because a handful of models like the M series could get that same sound (especially through a Leslie) and were used on several all-time classic Hammond tracks that were always thought to be the B3. "Whiter Shade Of Pale"...classic B3 sound, but it was really an M102. Same thing with the organ tracks on the first Boston album, Scholz played an M3.

[monicker]

Off topic, but i recently read a very excellent Rudy Van Gelder interview (highly recommended) where he mentions that the organ he had (and still has!) at his Englewood Cliffs home studio that Jimmy Smith used for all the Blue Note and Prestige sessions was actually a Hammond C-3, not a B-3.

If anyone's interested in that interview, here's the link:

http://www.jazzwax.com/2012/02/interview-rudy-van-gelder-part-1.html (it's in 5 parts and the links to each next part are at the top of the page)

It's a great read. He covers a lot of fascinating stuff: The early days of tape; how he was using Neumanns (he owned the second one sold in the US) when everyone else was using RCA an Western Electric mics; both home studios and specifics about the design of the Englewood Cliffs studio; early days of mastering; mobile recordings at jazz clubs, and much, much more. Good pictures too!

[guitarfool2002]

Thank you for the link, Monicker! I love Blue Note records, especially the golden age. The records Jimmy Smith cut with Rudy pretty much set the standard for me as far as what a Hammond organ should sound like.    It was maybe a stroke of fate that Blue Note was in New Jersey and the Hammond organ combo jazz movement was all but started in and around Philly, so Van Gelder got most of the heavy hitters playing Hammond in his studio at the right time. Awesome.

[guitarfool2002]

Not to turn this into a Hammond thread or anything  , but I wanted to share something since the Hammond B3 and C3 were mentioned.

These are photos from an auction I attended this exact time two years ago. It was the estate of a musician who had been playing professionally for decades, and had quite a collection of high-end instruments. I dropped a ton of money on stuff I needed and could use to get other stuff I needed, but the key high-end items there were a collection (yes, a collection) of Hammond organs, Leslie speakers, various Selmer horns, vintage Hammond simulator keyboards dating back to the 70's and 80's...just a treasure trove. I had a chance to play the Hammonds, which is always a treat: The B3 was fired up through a Leslie 147, and everything you've heard about them is true. It's pure joy to sit down at one of these and play. These were mostly kept inside, had no cigarette burns, coffee or booze stains, sunlight damage, potted-plat rings, rodent damage, or any of the other road maladies or signs of being used as furniture rather than being cared for.

The key pieces were a B3 and a C3, with Leslie cabs and the full bass pedals. The B3 sold for 3,300, the C3 for 2,200. That may seem cheap but they're like collecting antique cars: The maintenance costs and efforts will sink you if you can't keep them maintained properly.

I just wanted to mention, the B3 and the C3 are essentially the same organ in a different cabinet design. If you ever find an "M Series" in the classifieds, if it's a tonewheel organ you'll get the same Hammond vibe with less features but at a much cheaper price.

Here's the B3:


Here's the C3:


And here they are side by side with the Leslies visible, C3 on left B3 on right:


Notice they are the same manuals and functions and all that, but the cabinets have different designs.

[Shane]

Since we're talking about this stuff, I thought I'd share my recent yard sale "find".  I had wanted a Farfisa for a long time.  I went to a yard sale about a month ago... the guy had a crappy off-brand 1960s electric organ for sale.  I figured "what the heck, it's close enough" and bought it for 100 dollars.  As I was driving away, I saw him standing at the end of the driveway, waving at me to come back.  "I have another organ like the one you bought," he said. "I'm not sure if it works.  It's a Farfisa.  You can have it for free if you want."  I couldn't believe it.  Turns out the thing works great.  It's a Farfisa Compact Professional, which is anything but compact.  I can hardly lift the thing.  But it sounds awesome.

[guitarfool2002]

Since we're talking about this stuff, I thought I'd share my recent yard sale "find".  I had wanted a Farfisa for a long time.  I went to a yard sale about a month ago... the guy had a crappy off-brand 1960s electric organ for sale.  I figured "what the heck, it's close enough" and bought it for 100 dollars.  As I was driving away, I saw him standing at the end of the driveway, waving at me to come back.  "I have another organ like the one you bought," he said. "I'm not sure if it works.  It's a Farfisa.  You can have it for free if you want."  I couldn't believe it.  Turns out the thing works great.  It's a Farfisa Compact Professional, which is anything but compact.  I can hardly lift the thing.  But it sounds awesome.

Awesome score! Yes!!! That's the kind of thing that makes all the searching around worthwhile. I need to go to the yard sales you're going to more often I think...

Great find. I'm sure that organ sounds amazing.

[DonnyL]

Since we're talking about this stuff, I thought I'd share my recent yard sale "find".  I had wanted a Farfisa for a long time.  I went to a yard sale about a month ago... the guy had a crappy off-brand 1960s electric organ for sale.  I figured "what the heck, it's close enough" and bought it for 100 dollars.  As I was driving away, I saw him standing at the end of the driveway, waving at me to come back.  "I have another organ like the one you bought," he said. "I'm not sure if it works.  It's a Farfisa.  You can have it for free if you want."  I couldn't believe it.  Turns out the thing works great.  It's a Farfisa Compact Professional, which is anything but compact.  I can hardly lift the thing.  But it sounds awesome.

I used one of these for a long time -- a solid organ! Doesn't quite have that 'combo organ' sound though ... great for more psych stuff. Sly Stone used one at Woodstock.

I'm playing it in this clip here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2I8QuP4HdI

[guitarfool2002]

If you've not already bookmarked this site, here is a page with a ton of info, clips, photos, manuals, and links about the Compact Professional:

http://www.ktopits.com/bandpro.aSp

[Christoph]

Still one of the best deals I made was 200 bucks for an old Yamaha YC 20. Beats every Vox or Farfisa for my taste. If you're looking for that classic transistor organ sound, it's all there. In terms of Hammond, I like the new XK3c very much.

Here's a demo of the Yc 20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDC_CQMC4Co

[DonnyL]

Still one of the best deals I made was 200 bucks for an old Yamaha YC 20. Beats every Vox or Farfisa for my taste. If you're looking for that classic transistor organ sound, it's all there. In terms of Hammond, I like the new XK3c very much.

Here's a demo of the Yc 20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDC_CQMC4Co

I agree the YC-20 has an inherently 'better' sound, but it is more limited in options than the Farfisa Professional, which has sustain (harpsichord/tambura/etc) tabs. I've owned and used a YC-20 fairly extensively, and found it easier to get into the Hammond territory if you send it through a Leslie. BUT, it doesn't do 'cheesy combo organ' very well in my opinion (you could almost say it's 'too good'). Also, if I'm not mistaken, the YC-20 uses ICs, which I think yields a different vibe than some of the older, discrete combo organs. Something like an Ace-Tone Top 5 gets a real punchy, present sound I couldn't rangle out of the Yamaha. Ultimately, I think the YC-20s have a distinctly '70s sound, while the Farfisas tend to sound more '60s (mid-'60s in the case of the truly 'Compact' series, and late '60s/psychedelic in the case of the 'Professional' series. The later 'VIP' series Farfisas sound more '70s.

here's an example where we used the YC-20 through a small Cordovox Leslie speaker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52eQa5pEe_0

Here's a photo of the YC-20 next to my Rocksichord:



... I do miss the 'table space' on the YC-20 ... you can set your beer, tambourine or set list on there !!!

[Shane]

If you've not already bookmarked this site, here is a page with a ton of info, clips, photos, manuals, and links about the Compact Professional:

http://www.ktopits.com/bandpro.aSp

Hey, thanks for the link!  I was having trouble finding info on this particular model.

[c-man]

What about the organ sound on the live MIC versions of "Friends" and "Little Bird"?  Could that be a transistor combo organ?