Should this song have been on the Little Deuce Coupe LP??

[Jon Stebbins]

Summer 1963...Brian is tasked by Capitol Records with coming up with his fourth LP in less than 18 months. They want a car-themed record...Brian manages to create enough material for another hit album, but a couple of old tracks are poached from earlier singles to complete the record. Meanwhile, 15 year old David Marks submits this song to Brian, and asks if maybe he could arrange some Brian-style harmonies to add to the admittedly primitive composition and put it on the LP. Brian says no way. Dave sees the writing on the wall and expedites his departure from the group. So...not exactly a classic...but was this good enough to be on the Little Deuce Coupe LP??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypmkqU9fYQ

[Freddie French-Pounce]

it reminds me of Shut Down Part II instrumentally. but yeah, it would have fitted in nicely.

[SMiLE Brian]

I think its too rough in quality for a BBs album.

[CenturyDeprived]

I think the song is decent, not super...  but I can see how it would bug a band member to have their song(s) rejected, particularly while a re-release of a song that already came out makes the cut.

Silly question, but do you know why David Marks spelled the song's title with "K"s instead of "C"s? (I like it better as "KKS" myself, for no particular reason).

[seltaeb1012002]

Pretty good song, but Brian already had "Custom Machine". Couldn't see him wanting another song for the album with Custom (or Kustom) in the title.

[CenturyDeprived]

Pretty good song, but Brian already had "Custom Machine". Couldn't see him wanting another song for the album with Custom (or Kustom) in the title.

Ordinarily with most bands that would make sense, but keep in mind how many songs with "Surf" in the title there were on the early albums! 

[Jon Stebbins]

I think the song is decent, not super...  but I can see how it would bug a band member to have their song(s) rejected, particularly while a re-release of a song that already came out makes the cut.

Silly question, but do you know why David Marks spelled the song's title with "K"s instead of "C"s? (I like it better as "KKS" myself, for no particular reason).

The spelling Kustom Kar is kind of a slang or jargon associated with the early hot-rod culture, it was a hip way to spell it...

My opinion...I think the song lacks musicality, but Brian could have easily added some by adding a mid-song key change and by putting harmonies on it. The other side is that the lyric is really fun and in some ways inventive...maybe a more punk attitude than some BB's material, but with Mike singing lead, group harmonies on there, it certainly rocks, David's guitar solo is perfectly Beach Boys...I think it's good enough to be an album cut with some minor tweaks.

[Cabinessenceking]

I think Murry might've had a finger in this song's rejection althougn we should not dismiss the possibility that Brian's ego would allow other songwriters in the group disrupt his visions for where the band should go.

Quality wise this songs beats several LDC cuts.

[Gabo]

Pretty much any basic rock n' roll song with lyrics related to cars would work on the album. The song wouldn't improve the album but it wouldn't hurt it either.

[bluesno1fann]

It definetely should have been on that album!
If it was, it would have easily been one of the better tracks

[bgas]

Summer 1963...Brian is tasked by Capitol Records with coming up with his fourth LP in less than 18 months. They want a car-themed record...Brian manages to create enough material for another hit album, but a couple of old tracks are poached from earlier singles to complete the record. Meanwhile, 15 year old David Marks submits this song to Brian, and asks if maybe he could arrange some Brian-style harmonies to add to the admittedly primitive composition and put it on the LP. Brian says no way. Dave sees the writing on the wall and expedites his departure from the group. So...not exactly a classic...but was this good enough to be on the Little Deuce Coupe LP??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypmkqU9fYQ

So cutting to the chase, you're saying Dave's leaving had nothing to do with touring/Murry but instead was on account of Brian not wanting to use ONE song by Dave? 
That's some historic re-writing!! 

I'd say Brian was too pumped with his own music, and he didnt see spending time on Daves' song as a good investment.
The song seems fairly basic/repetitive comparatively, but how many songs measure up to Brian?  ( See Gary Usher; look how many songs he tried...) 

[Jon Stebbins]

Summer 1963...Brian is tasked by Capitol Records with coming up with his fourth LP in less than 18 months. They want a car-themed record...Brian manages to create enough material for another hit album, but a couple of old tracks are poached from earlier singles to complete the record. Meanwhile, 15 year old David Marks submits this song to Brian, and asks if maybe he could arrange some Brian-style harmonies to add to the admittedly primitive composition and put it on the LP. Brian says no way. Dave sees the writing on the wall and expedites his departure from the group. So...not exactly a classic...but was this good enough to be on the Little Deuce Coupe LP??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypmkqU9fYQ

So cutting to the chase, you're saying Dave's leaving had nothing to do with touring/Murry but instead was on account of Brian not wanting to use ONE song by Dave?  
That's some historic re-writing!!  

I didn't say it had nothing to do with Murry etc... of course not, you know better than that. However, Dave has said many many many times, in his book and elsewhere, that ONE of the reasons he left is that he wanted to write, and record his own music and he knew that would likely never happen in the Beach Boys, and the above is one example of why he felt that way. So, dude...there's no re-writing at all. But I agree that Brian probably dismissed the song as sub-standard compared to what he was doing...and it is on the surface...but it could have been pretty cool with a little BW polish.

[startBBtoday]

I can understand Brian, Murry, the label and the band not wanting to put a non-Brian Wilson-penned tune that wasn't a cover or an instrumental on the album. I'm sure there was plenty of ego involved for Brian, but it was his band. If an original was going to be on an album, I'm sure he wanted it to be written by him.

There's got to be a good reason a non-Brian-penned original didn't make it onto an album until December 1967.

[Phoenix]

Decent song and would have fit in great (and even stood out as a high point) on either of the first two albums.  I guess Brian felt they were beyond that by the time of Little Deuce Coupe but I agree that Brian could have brought it up to snuff if he'd been inclined.

Now a couple of questions:  I'm not familiar with the Marksmen (beyond their origins and Dave's involvement).  When was this released?  Is that him on the lead vocal?  What about lead guitar?  Or was he still just playing rhythm at that point?

[Gabo]

I can understand Brian, Murry, the label and the band not wanting to put a non-Brian Wilson-penned tune that wasn't a cover or an instrumental on the album. I'm sure there was plenty of ego involved for Brian, but it was his band. If an original was going to be on an album, I'm sure he wanted it to be written by him.

There's got to be a good reason a non-Brian-penned original didn't make it onto an album until December 1967.

He could write something better than that song, even in 1963, in ten minutes. Not saying it's bad but it is certainly no "Be True To Your School." It would probably be more work to put life into that  basic rocker than to compose something completely new.

[Mike's Beard]

With a lyrical polish from either Roger Christian or Mike it would have been a fine addition to LDC over the four old tracks used. And it goes without saying that Mike would have sang it rather than Dave.

[Bill Ed]

I'm not sure it would have fit in well on the album, but it would have made a perfect b-side for a single.

And there's probably always been more than a little Murry in Brian.

[Micha]

I think it was a poor decision by Brian, I don't think this song is any worse than, say, This Car Of Mine or Pom Pom Playgirl from SD2, so it would have been an improvement of the album in the sense that they could have left off one of the previously released stuff. It's not strong enough to be a BB single either of course.

So cutting to the chase, you're saying Dave's leaving had nothing to do with touring/Murry but instead was on account of Brian not wanting to use ONE song by Dave? 
That's some historic re-writing!! 

I think you're reading to much into his words...

I'd say Brian was too pumped with his own music, and he didnt see spending time on Daves' song as a good investment.

Yeah, unfortunately Brian always had a problem with including the other guys' songwriting efforts.

[Alan Smith]

This is a pretty decent number and with the BW polish, or an added riff/extra texture (percussive structure) would have worked beautifully on LDC or SD2.

It's better than Cherry, Cherry Coupe - we know that was an old number prior to it's LDC detailing;Brian may have musically/stylistically moved on, but CCC demonstrates he could resurrect older stuff and reimagine it for the brave new world of 1964.

[Gabo]

This is a pretty decent number and with the BW polish, or an added riff/extra texture (percussive structure) would have worked beautifully on LDC or SD2.

It's better than Cherry, Cherry Coupe - we know that was an old number prior to it's LDC detailing;Brian may have musically/stylistically moved on, but CCC demonstrates he could resurrect older stuff and reimagine it for the brave new world of 1964.

No, it's not better than Cherry Cherry Coupe. Cherry Cherry Coupe has an infectious melody and a more interesting chord structure than this rather nondescript song. It's dumb as nails, of course, but it certainly beats it musically.

[mikeddonn]

This is a pretty decent number and with the BW polish, or an added riff/extra texture (percussive structure) would have worked beautifully on LDC or SD2.

It's better than Cherry, Cherry Coupe - we know that was an old number prior to it's LDC detailing;Brian may have musically/stylistically moved on, but CCC demonstrates he could resurrect older stuff and reimagine it for the brave new world of 1964.

I have to disagree with this opinion.  The difference between Dave's song and Cherry is what makes the Beach Boys different from most other bands at the time.  They were using way more than a basic chord progression.  The melodies were more melodic and better than others could do. Yet the songs themselves sound simple, including the lyrics.  Very deceptive but that is what makes Brian a genius.  As someone once said "genius is the ability to make something complex sound simple".

As for Kustom Kar, great song for a 15 year old to write but not up to par with Brian's stuff.  As someone above alluded to it wouldn't be economical for Brian to spend time rewriting or tweaking someone else's song when he could do something better in 10 mins.  That's not a slight on David, more more about praising Brian.

[Nicko1234]

It would have needed to be rerecorded with decent vocals. It's a very average song and Brian wasn't wrong to reject it.

[Watch a Cave]

I think the guitar work is very good on this song, but overall it is not better than anything on LDC.  It sounds like an attempt to be Beach Boys like.. but it is missing that little piece of BW magic.

Songs like Cherry cherry coupe and Custom machine seem simple on the surface but have that special something..

[Jon Stebbins]

Decent song and would have fit in great (and even stood out as a high point) on either of the first two albums.  I guess Brian felt they were beyond that by the time of Little Deuce Coupe but I agree that Brian could have brought it up to snuff if he'd been inclined.

Now a couple of questions:  I'm not familiar with the Marksmen (beyond their origins and Dave's involvement).  When was this released?  Is that him on the lead vocal?  What about lead guitar?  Or was he still just playing rhythm at that point?

Recorded late '63, released as a b-side in March '64. Dave sings lead, plays lead guitar, he wrote and produced all the Marksmen stuff.

[Phoenix]

Thanks, Jon!  Now I'm fairly certain Dave sings the main vocal on the Boys' version of "Summertime Blues".  I figured it was but could never seem to get a straight answer as to whether it was him or Carl who took the first few passes by himself, before the other one was brought in to thicken the sound or whatever.  I knew the Marksmen "became" his band but never knew his role.  Now that I do (and know and respect Dave's contributions to the band, thanks to you and many other factors) I'll definitely be checking out their stuff. 

Thanks again for your knowledge on Dave and the early days (as well as your accessibility and willingness to continue sharing said knowledge) and for helping to restore him in his proper place inside the group (and rock and roll)'s history!