Lack of melody in modern music

[Gabo]

Something I always bring up when defending my mostly nostalgic music taste is how melody has been devalued by modern songwriters. When they make fun of my love of The Beach Boys, I rebut that the indie music they listen to is, from a compositional standpoint, vacuous, lacking solid melodies and memorability as a result.

The music they listen to is typically slow and swamped with reverb and other special effects, which I tell them exists to conceal the weakness of the actual song craft.

This album by Grouper is a perfect encapsulation of  what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzFLKperju4

Do you agree with my observation? Do you think a song needs a strong melody to have substance?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

[alf wiedersehen]

This "good/real" music thing is stupid and should be stopped.

You can go to any Youtube page with music and see a "This is what I call real music" comment.  If we all have different ideas of what "good music" is, how can we reach any consensus? We can't. It loses all validity when every person believes their own music to be the "good" music and everyone else's terrible.

Your music tastes are your opinions. If you like it, then fine. Listen to it.

[Gabo]

People debate music all the time. It's pretty ineluctable.

This "good/real" music thing is stupid and should be stopped.

You can go to any Youtube page with music and see a "This is what I call real music" comment.  If we all have different ideas of what "good music" is, how can we reach any consensus? We can't. It loses all validity when every person believes their own music to be the "good" music and everyone else's terrible.

Your music tastes are your opinions. If you like it, then fine. Listen to it.

Do you really believe that music is entirely subjective, though? Do you think Summer in Paradise is as good as Pet Sounds?

[Myk Luhv]

guys i'm 12 and love real music like beach boys not puke like katy perry LOL AMIRITRE

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Music can clearly be judged. "Good" music is not an opinion, that's why we have "perfect" fourths, fifths...

Things can sound good and not so, lyrics can be judged since it's basically poetry.

Today's popular music isn't "bad" it's just stale. So many songs sound the same. It's too generic and the lyrics are too "formulaic"

It's funny, I LOVE Pet Sounds not for the music, but the lyrics. It connects on a higher level than today's drug and sex cash in.

[zachrwolfe]

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[the captain]

Of course there is such a thing as good and bad music--of course there is.

And of course there is no such a thing as good or bad music outside of taste (individual or collective)--of course there isn't.

Intervals--fourths and fifths--have nothing to do with musical perfection, of course. There are different suggestions for that terminology, but it has nothing to do with quality of music. (Presumably if it did, perfect music would have no thirds, sixths, or sevenths. Hardly perfect music.)

To be good or bad, there must be criteria. There are criteria, thus there can be good and bad music. The problem is that those criteria aren't universally agreed upon in all circumstances. There is the simple: reproduce this note. You can do it well, passably, or horribly. This is measurable. It is good or it isn't. Play on the 3 of every beat in this 4/4 time signature. Again, it is measurable whether you did it.

You were good or you were bad (or somewhere in between).

This kind of technical prowess continues into more complicated terrain.

(The same principles apply to the lyrics, if you want to take it that way: you can show technical mastery of a language, or you can fail at the same.)

Those are criteria, but not the sole criteria. Unfortunately, at a certain point, the criteria become less measurable. Worse, they are often at odds, sometime between audiences and sometimes within oneself. Great music:

 - Makes you happy.
 - Makes you sad.
 - Makes you want to f***.
 - Makes you hopeful.
 - Lets you wallow in your hopelessness.
 - Reminds you of the good times (past).
 - Is relatable.
 - Is unique.
 - Brings people together.
 - Consoles the solitary.
 - Is clever.
 - Is earnest.

This could go on forever, but the point is made. There is an expectation for technical proficiency, but it's negotiable depending upon what other needs or expectations any given audience, or audience member, has. The whole thing is complicated further by different systems in which to demonstrate technical proficiency and different cultures in which to share the less scientific shades of music.

If I had to sum it up, I'd say don't give a second thought to what you don't like, don't be so arrogant as to think that your momentary (or even lifetime) preferences matter in the grand scheme of things, and just lighten up and enjoy what you enjoy.

(I was tempted to say my summary was "shut the f*** up" but that sounded rude.)

Oh, also, I find no lack of great melodies. Maybe you ought to look elsewhere.

[alf wiedersehen]

"Good" music is not an opinion, that's why we have "perfect" fourths, fifths...

No, that's not true at all. We have "perfect" fourths, fifths, and such because of their placement in scales.
"Good music" is an opinion. Ever heard of music critics? Every single one of their reviews are opinions.

Things can sound good and not so, lyrics can be judged since it's basically poetry.

Once again, no.
So, dissonant music is bad? Why? Some people like dissonant music, so, by extension, they obviously think it's "good."
Also, there are tons of different types of poetry. You have both traditional poetry and free form poetry, both very opposite forms, but both poetry. And every person who reads poetry has different criteria on what makes it good. There is no singular opinion.

Today's popular music isn't "bad" it's just stale. So many songs sound the same. It's too generic and the lyrics are too "formulaic"
It connects on a higher level than today's drug and sex cash in.

It's these sweeping generalizations that are the problem. Not everything made today is terrible. I hate this mindset.

If I had to sum it up, I'd say don't give a second thought to what you don't like, don't be so arrogant as to think that your momentary (or even lifetime) preferences matter in the grand scheme of things, and just lighten up and enjoy what you enjoy.

Yes.

[alf wiedersehen]

guys i'm 12 and love real music like beach boys not puke like katy perry LOL AMIRITRE

Exactly.

[zachrwolfe]

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[Gabo]

Music can clearly be judged. "Good" music is not an opinion, that's why we have "perfect" fourths, fifths...

Things can sound good and not so, lyrics can be judged since it's basically poetry.

Today's popular music isn't "bad" it's just stale. So many songs sound the same. It's too generic and the lyrics are too "formulaic"

It's funny, I LOVE Pet Sounds not for the music, but the lyrics. It connects on a higher level than today's drug and sex cash in.

I'm really talking here about the composition of recent music, not the lyrical content. Most of what I'm referring to is art music, which can be more fairly critiqued than radio pop.

Whatever. All I was saying is that I think artistically minded music (not radio pop) doesn't rely on melody nearly as much as it should anymore and it comes off as boring and meandering as a result. It's frustrating because I've been trying to get into more modern music lately but it all sounds so unmemorable.

[zachrwolfe]

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[Gabo]

I was actually at an Animal Collective show this concert and their opener, Deradoorian, was a perfect example.  Her melodies meandered and didn't "go anywhere." Everyone in the show was visibly bored and commented on how awful it was.

In my opinion, Animal Collective is successful not only because they are so sonically experimental but there songs have strong, catchy melodies.


When I show my friends songs and ask if they think it's good, they will say that it is "catchy," like catchy is bad. These friends enjoy Animal Collective.

[Empire Of Love]

It connects on a higher level than today's drug and sex cash in.

I can certainly agree with this comment.  Art should, in my opinion, work toward the betterment of the artist and the audience.  Much of today's art, be it music, film, literature, or other medium, does not even aim at this goal.  If for no other reason than this, I believe such art can be objectively judged as bad against this standard.   This opens two obvious questions: 1. Should this be the goal of art; and 2. How do we determine what is better and worse for the artist and the audience?  These are interesting questions, but they are a bit much for this post.     

mps

[dynomike]

Perhaps it is becoming increasingly frustrating to craft 'original' melodies so many years into recorded music, and thus the 'art musician' prefers exploration of rhythm, sonic texture, space... (see electronic music).

I agree with others that perfect fourths and fifths have nothing to do with taste, its about equal temperment tuning.

There are plenty examples of melody-oriented music both on the radio and in the indie record store, including Katy Perry (Teenage Dream and Firework have excellent melodies, albeit repetetive, as the form dictates)  Ariel Pink has wild 'art' melodies and others that are pure pop, within the same song often.  Kanye West has penned some wicked melodies, and aptly recontextualized many more.

Overall, I think you find what you expect to find.  (Confirmation bias)  Of course this applies to all of us.  Probably best to ignore the music you don't like, but revisit it every once in a while with an open mind.  You may be surprised how your tastes change, if you allow them to.