Mid-90s BB reunion timeline

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

This is what c-man said about 6 years ago on the board:

Remember, there were TWO sets of sessions in '95: the late February sessions for "Dancin' The Night Away" and possibly "Grace Of My Heart"...Carl reportedly walked out of those for non-musical reasons (i.e. some kind of tension with Brian), hence that stuff was never finished.   AND the September Don Was sessions, from which we get "Soul Searchin'" and "Still A Mystery".  Those two songs were finished, albeit with different backing tracks than what we have on the boots.  From what I've read, Carl thought those finished tracks were "not releasable" and then they moved on to "Stars 'n' Stripes".  Reportedly, Carl never heard them with the vocals pasted back onto the original Wilson/Paley tracks.

FYI, Domenic Priore told me back then that after those September sessions, Andy received a call from Was asking him to replace Jim Keltner's drumming on the Was-produced tracks, then shortly afterwards Was asked him to replace the bass or the guitar, then he kept calling him back to replace parts til everything was Andy again, just like it was on the original tracks (which Was had considered to be nothing more than demos).  Don reportedly told Andy "Y'know, Keltner's great but he just can't get the feel you got on the demos, Andy..." and on it went. 

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4774.0.html

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

"Sometime in September 1995   // The Beach Boys at Studio C at Western, with Don Was producing, record vocals for the Wilson Paley sessions for Soul Searchin' and Still A Mystery. During background vocal sessions for Baywatch Nights AKA Dancing The Night Away, Carl Wilson walks out and the reunion ends."

Nope: Gigs & sessions 1995

Thank you, Andrew.  It's been a long time since I looked at or worked on that timeline, so that September session entry probably isn't the only thing that is wrong.   I wish I knew were I got that information.

If my memory serves me correctly, didn't Brian say somewhere that a song on the new Beach Boys album was rejected by Carl during some sort of reunion discussion?

[Jim V.]

"Sometime in September 1995   // The Beach Boys at Studio C at Western, with Don Was producing, record vocals for the Wilson Paley sessions for Soul Searchin' and Still A Mystery. During background vocal sessions for Baywatch Nights AKA Dancing The Night Away, Carl Wilson walks out and the reunion ends."

Nope: Gigs & sessions 1995

Thank you, Andrew.  It's been a long time since I looked at or worked on that timeline, so that September session entry probably isn't the only thing that is wrong.   I wish I knew were I got that information.

If my memory serves me correctly, didn't Brian say somewhere that a song on the new Beach Boys album was rejected by Carl during some sort of reunion discussion?

You might be thinking of "Lay Down Your Burden" which Carl was going to sing on Imagination, which ultimately turned into "Spring Vacation." Keep in mind, however, that "Lay Down Burden" is not the same "Lay Down Burden" that is actually on Imagination. Confusing, yes, I know.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

You might be thinking of "Lay Down Your Burden" which Carl was going to sing on Imagination, which ultimately turned into "Spring Vacation." Keep in mind, however, that "Lay Down Burden" is not the same "Lay Down Burden" that is actually on Imagination. Confusing, yes, I know.

Reading this, I believe you are correct:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13297.50.html

I really do need to update that timeline.

[TimmyC]

Cool topic Wirestone! A fascinating period I think - particularly in light of the release of She's Still A Mystery which for me is the crown jewel of the box set.

[HeyJude]

This is what c-man said about 6 years ago on the board:

Remember, there were TWO sets of sessions in '95: the late February sessions for "Dancin' The Night Away" and possibly "Grace Of My Heart"...Carl reportedly walked out of those for non-musical reasons (i.e. some kind of tension with Brian), hence that stuff was never finished.   AND the September Don Was sessions, from which we get "Soul Searchin'" and "Still A Mystery".  Those two songs were finished, albeit with different backing tracks than what we have on the boots.  From what I've read, Carl thought those finished tracks were "not releasable" and then they moved on to "Stars 'n' Stripes".  Reportedly, Carl never heard them with the vocals pasted back onto the original Wilson/Paley tracks.

FYI, Domenic Priore told me back then that after those September sessions, Andy received a call from Was asking him to replace Jim Keltner's drumming on the Was-produced tracks, then shortly afterwards Was asked him to replace the bass or the guitar, then he kept calling him back to replace parts til everything was Andy again, just like it was on the original tracks (which Was had considered to be nothing more than demos).  Don reportedly told Andy "Y'know, Keltner's great but he just can't get the feel you got on the demos, Andy..." and on it went. 

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4774.0.html

It seems so odd that Carl would find those two tracks so musically objectionable, especially considering moving onto the “Stars and Stripes” project afterwards. While the degree of Carl’s distaste for the tracks may be up for debate, it does seem he had issues with them. Can anyone dig up a circa 2000 interview with Al Jardine from “Record Collector”? It was a slightly different edit of the interview Al gave to Goldmine in 2000. There was a bit about the Paley/Was sessions in “Record Collector” that was left out of Goldmine. I don’t recall the exact quote, but my recollection (someone correct me if I’m wrong) was that Al seemed to like the songs fine, but he also said it was Carl that had some sort of issue with the material.

Not sure about that story about Paley replacing all the parts on the songs via new recordings. If he did so, I don’t think that’s what we’re hearing on the recordings we’ve heard. The backing track on every version of “Soul Searchin’” (demo with Paley singing, boot mix with Carl singing, and new “MIC” mix) is the same; they all seem to be Paley’s original track. I had assumed “YSAM” was still mostly the Was backing track though.

Very interesting stuff! Mysterious!

I’d also find it interesting if Don Was told Paley that he felt the original Brian/Paley recordings were of “demo” quality, as I recall an interview on the short-lived “petsounds.com” website with Andy Paley where the interviewer seemed to make passing reference to the recordings as demos, and Paley seemed offended and contended they were fully-produced, ready-to-release tracks.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Can anyone dig up a circa 2000 interview with Al Jardine from “Record Collector”? It was a slightly different edit of the interview Al gave to Goldmine in 2000. There was a bit about the Paley/Was sessions in “Record Collector” that was left out of Goldmine. I don’t recall the exact quote, but my recollection (someone correct me if I’m wrong) was that Al seemed to like the songs fine, but he also said it was Carl that had some sort of issue with the material.

The Goldmine article was July 2000; do you remember what month the Record Collector article came out?

[DonnyL]

This is what c-man said about 6 years ago on the board:

Remember, there were TWO sets of sessions in '95: the late February sessions for "Dancin' The Night Away" and possibly "Grace Of My Heart"...Carl reportedly walked out of those for non-musical reasons (i.e. some kind of tension with Brian), hence that stuff was never finished.   AND the September Don Was sessions, from which we get "Soul Searchin'" and "Still A Mystery".  Those two songs were finished, albeit with different backing tracks than what we have on the boots.  From what I've read, Carl thought those finished tracks were "not releasable" and then they moved on to "Stars 'n' Stripes".  Reportedly, Carl never heard them with the vocals pasted back onto the original Wilson/Paley tracks.

FYI, Domenic Priore told me back then that after those September sessions, Andy received a call from Was asking him to replace Jim Keltner's drumming on the Was-produced tracks, then shortly afterwards Was asked him to replace the bass or the guitar, then he kept calling him back to replace parts til everything was Andy again, just like it was on the original tracks (which Was had considered to be nothing more than demos).  Don reportedly told Andy "Y'know, Keltner's great but he just can't get the feel you got on the demos, Andy..." and on it went.  

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4774.0.html

It seems so odd that Carl would find those two tracks so musically objectionable, especially considering moving onto the “Stars and Stripes” project afterwards. While the degree of Carl’s distaste for the tracks may be up for debate, it does seem he had issues with them. Can anyone dig up a circa 2000 interview with Al Jardine from “Record Collector”? It was a slightly different edit of the interview Al gave to Goldmine in 2000. There was a bit about the Paley/Was sessions in “Record Collector” that was left out of Goldmine. I don’t recall the exact quote, but my recollection (someone correct me if I’m wrong) was that Al seemed to like the songs fine, but he also said it was Carl that had some sort of issue with the material.

Not sure about that story about Paley replacing all the parts on the songs via new recordings. If he did so, I don’t think that’s what we’re hearing on the recordings we’ve heard. The backing track on every version of “Soul Searchin’” (demo with Paley singing, boot mix with Carl singing, and new “MIC” mix) is the same; they all seem to be Paley’s original track. I had assumed “YSAM” was still mostly the Was backing track though.

Very interesting stuff! Mysterious!

I’d also find it interesting if Don Was told Paley that he felt the original Brian/Paley recordings were of “demo” quality, as I recall an interview on the short-lived “petsounds.com” website with Andy Paley where the interviewer seemed to make passing reference to the recordings as demos, and Paley seemed offended and contended they were fully-produced, ready-to-release tracks.

I'm pretty sure 'You're Still A Mystery' on MIC uses the Paley track. C-man mentioned in the Mellotron thread that Andy said they used elec. piano. I also saw an interview where Andy said he played 6-string bass, and you can hear those surf riffs on the recording.

You bring up an interesting point --

I think the crux of the matter with regard to why this stuff didn't come out originally is that many folks within the BB circle in the mid-'90s probably thought the stuff sounded demo-like, or lo-fi, or not 'professional' enough, too 'retro', etc (compared to things like Stars & Stripes and the Was soundtrack ... both with 'flavor of the day' type production).

The thing is, the material from this era holds up very well, and in my opinion, was actually ahead of it's time in forecasting the trend toward '60s-'70s style productions that has come up within the last few years. The whole set really oughtta be released in it's original form. Truly the only worthwhile stuff (in my opinion) to come from the Beach Boys or BW since 1980 ... and the best material since Love You.

The mid-'90s vocals from Brian are great, totally raw and emotional. He seriously sounds bored on the vocal on the box set. 'It's Not Easy Being Me' and 'I'm Broke' are up there for me in terms of BW songs.

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

[Dave Modny]

The mid-'90s vocals from Brian are great, totally raw and emotional. He seriously sounds bored on the vocal on the box set. 'It's Not Easy Being Me' and 'I'm Broke' are up there for me in terms of BW songs.

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

To each their own, but for me, and less weird or not, I think this box set vocal for YSAMTM is an improvement over the booted one -- irregardless of any production techniques that got it there. Maybe even a vast one. Then again, I don't care for a lot of his '93-'97 vocals...timbre, phrasing, tone, etc. (Do like the original GIOMH vocal though).

I'm really interested in finding out how recently it was done. Soon, C-Man, soon...right?

[HeyJude]

Can anyone dig up a circa 2000 interview with Al Jardine from “Record Collector”? It was aa slightly different edit of the interview Al gave to Goldmine in 2000. There was a bit about the Paley/Was sessions in “Record Collector” that was left out of Goldmine. I don’t recall the exact quote, but my recollection (someone correct me if I’m wrong) was that Al seemed to like the songs fine, but he also said it was Carl that had some sort of issue with the material.

The Goldmine article was July 2000; do you remember what month the Record Collector article came out?

Unfortunately, I'm not sure. It came out after the Goldmine interview, I do know that much. Sometime later in the year.

[HeyJude]

I'm pretty sure 'You're Still A Mystery' on MIC uses the Paley track. C-man mentioned in the Mellotron thread that Andy said they used elec. piano. I also saw an interview where Andy said he played 6-string bass, and you can hear those surf riffs on the recording.

You bring up an interesting point --

I think the crux of the matter with regard to why this stuff didn't come out originally is that many folks within the BB circle in the mid-'90s probably thought the stuff sounded demo-like, or lo-fi, or not 'professional' enough, too 'retro', etc (compared to things like Stars & Stripes and the Was soundtrack ... both with 'flavor of the day' type production).

The thing is, the material from this era holds up very well, and in my opinion, was actually ahead of it's time in forecasting the trend toward '60s-'70s style productions that has come up within the last few years. The whole set really oughtta be released in it's original form. Truly the only worthwhile stuff (in my opinion) to come from the Beach Boys or BW since 1980 ... and the best material since Love You.

The mid-'90s vocals from Brian are great, totally raw and emotional. He seriously sounds bored on the vocal on the box set. 'It's Not Easy Being Me' and 'I'm Broke' are up there for me in terms of BW songs.

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

Interesting points. I’m open to anything when it comes to this crazy band. I still lean toward YSAM being the Was backing track, or at least partly or mostly the Was backing track. The flipped production credits on MIC between YSAM and SS are one clue; I can’t imagine why else the credits would be flipped (other than for no particular reason). While I can’t say the backing we know for YSAM is shockingly different-sounding from the previous Paley sessions, it sounds a bit more robust, and that guitar sound in particular (the sort of flange/delayed riff heard from the beginning) somehow strikes me as more of a Was touch.

I also recall that it was either Boyd or Linett who first recounted online years ago that they had synched Carl’s Was-produced lead up with the Paley backing track, and the story specifically mentioned only “Soul Searchin’”; not “You’re Still a Mystery.”

Song-by-song musician credits for MIC would have been nice; it perhaps would have cleared some of this up.

[DonnyL]

I'm pretty sure 'You're Still A Mystery' on MIC uses the Paley track. C-man mentioned in the Mellotron thread that Andy said they used elec. piano. I also saw an interview where Andy said he played 6-string bass, and you can hear those surf riffs on the recording.

You bring up an interesting point --

I think the crux of the matter with regard to why this stuff didn't come out originally is that many folks within the BB circle in the mid-'90s probably thought the stuff sounded demo-like, or lo-fi, or not 'professional' enough, too 'retro', etc (compared to things like Stars & Stripes and the Was soundtrack ... both with 'flavor of the day' type production).

The thing is, the material from this era holds up very well, and in my opinion, was actually ahead of it's time in forecasting the trend toward '60s-'70s style productions that has come up within the last few years. The whole set really oughtta be released in it's original form. Truly the only worthwhile stuff (in my opinion) to come from the Beach Boys or BW since 1980 ... and the best material since Love You.

The mid-'90s vocals from Brian are great, totally raw and emotional. He seriously sounds bored on the vocal on the box set. 'It's Not Easy Being Me' and 'I'm Broke' are up there for me in terms of BW songs.

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

Interesting points. I’m open to anything when it comes to this crazy band. I still lean toward YSAM being the Was backing track, or at least partly or mostly the Was backing track. The flipped production credits on MIC between YSAM and SS are one clue; I can’t imagine why else the credits would be flipped (other than for no particular reason). While I can’t say the backing we know for YSAM is shockingly different-sounding from the previous Paley sessions, it sounds a bit more robust, and that guitar sound in particular (the sort of flange/delayed riff heard from the beginning) somehow strikes me as more of a Was touch.

I also recall that it was either Boyd or Linett who first recounted online years ago that they had synched Carl’s Was-produced lead up with the Paley backing track, and the story specifically mentioned only “Soul Searchin’”; not “You’re Still a Mystery.”

Song-by-song musician credits for MIC would have been nice; it perhaps would have cleared some of this up.

I don't know why the credits are swapped ...

BUT -- why would Paley get a co-producing credit if they weren't using his track? I just don't imagine Was doing things like using a Leslie'd guitar in 1995, which is a very '60s Beach Boys touch. And the drums are total Paley-style. I feel like the Was tracks would be night-and-day different (like using acoustic guitars on 'Soul Searchin', according to Andy). But maybe not.

[Nicko1234]

Interesting points. I’m open to anything when it comes to this crazy band. I still lean toward YSAM being the Was backing track, or at least partly or mostly the Was backing track. The flipped production credits on MIC between YSAM and SS are one clue; I can’t imagine why else the credits would be flipped (other than for no particular reason).

It could just be because they wanted both to be given equal billing.

[HeyJude]

I'm pretty sure 'You're Still A Mystery' on MIC uses the Paley track. C-man mentioned in the Mellotron thread that Andy said they used elec. piano. I also saw an interview where Andy said he played 6-string bass, and you can hear those surf riffs on the recording.

You bring up an interesting point --

I think the crux of the matter with regard to why this stuff didn't come out originally is that many folks within the BB circle in the mid-'90s probably thought the stuff sounded demo-like, or lo-fi, or not 'professional' enough, too 'retro', etc (compared to things like Stars & Stripes and the Was soundtrack ... both with 'flavor of the day' type production).

The thing is, the material from this era holds up very well, and in my opinion, was actually ahead of it's time in forecasting the trend toward '60s-'70s style productions that has come up within the last few years. The whole set really oughtta be released in it's original form. Truly the only worthwhile stuff (in my opinion) to come from the Beach Boys or BW since 1980 ... and the best material since Love You.

The mid-'90s vocals from Brian are great, totally raw and emotional. He seriously sounds bored on the vocal on the box set. 'It's Not Easy Being Me' and 'I'm Broke' are up there for me in terms of BW songs.

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

Interesting points. I’m open to anything when it comes to this crazy band. I still lean toward YSAM being the Was backing track, or at least partly or mostly the Was backing track. The flipped production credits on MIC between YSAM and SS are one clue; I can’t imagine why else the credits would be flipped (other than for no particular reason). While I can’t say the backing we know for YSAM is shockingly different-sounding from the previous Paley sessions, it sounds a bit more robust, and that guitar sound in particular (the sort of flange/delayed riff heard from the beginning) somehow strikes me as more of a Was touch.

I also recall that it was either Boyd or Linett who first recounted online years ago that they had synched Carl’s Was-produced lead up with the Paley backing track, and the story specifically mentioned only “Soul Searchin’”; not “You’re Still a Mystery.”

Song-by-song musician credits for MIC would have been nice; it perhaps would have cleared some of this up.

I don't know why the credits are swapped ...

BUT -- why would Paley get a co-producing credit if they weren't using his track? I just don't imagine Was doing things like using a Leslie'd guitar in 1995, which is a very '60s Beach Boys touch. And the drums are total Paley-style. I feel like the Was tracks would be night-and-day different (like using acoustic guitars on 'Soul Searchin', according to Andy). But maybe not.

I always got the impression that Paley was involved in both groups of sessions. Was he not involved at all in the Was sessions?

[DonnyL]

I'm pretty sure 'You're Still A Mystery' on MIC uses the Paley track. C-man mentioned in the Mellotron thread that Andy said they used elec. piano. I also saw an interview where Andy said he played 6-string bass, and you can hear those surf riffs on the recording.

You bring up an interesting point --

I think the crux of the matter with regard to why this stuff didn't come out originally is that many folks within the BB circle in the mid-'90s probably thought the stuff sounded demo-like, or lo-fi, or not 'professional' enough, too 'retro', etc (compared to things like Stars & Stripes and the Was soundtrack ... both with 'flavor of the day' type production).

The thing is, the material from this era holds up very well, and in my opinion, was actually ahead of it's time in forecasting the trend toward '60s-'70s style productions that has come up within the last few years. The whole set really oughtta be released in it's original form. Truly the only worthwhile stuff (in my opinion) to come from the Beach Boys or BW since 1980 ... and the best material since Love You.

The mid-'90s vocals from Brian are great, totally raw and emotional. He seriously sounds bored on the vocal on the box set. 'It's Not Easy Being Me' and 'I'm Broke' are up there for me in terms of BW songs.

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

Interesting points. I’m open to anything when it comes to this crazy band. I still lean toward YSAM being the Was backing track, or at least partly or mostly the Was backing track. The flipped production credits on MIC between YSAM and SS are one clue; I can’t imagine why else the credits would be flipped (other than for no particular reason). While I can’t say the backing we know for YSAM is shockingly different-sounding from the previous Paley sessions, it sounds a bit more robust, and that guitar sound in particular (the sort of flange/delayed riff heard from the beginning) somehow strikes me as more of a Was touch.

I also recall that it was either Boyd or Linett who first recounted online years ago that they had synched Carl’s Was-produced lead up with the Paley backing track, and the story specifically mentioned only “Soul Searchin’”; not “You’re Still a Mystery.”

Song-by-song musician credits for MIC would have been nice; it perhaps would have cleared some of this up.

I don't know why the credits are swapped ...

BUT -- why would Paley get a co-producing credit if they weren't using his track? I just don't imagine Was doing things like using a Leslie'd guitar in 1995, which is a very '60s Beach Boys touch. And the drums are total Paley-style. I feel like the Was tracks would be night-and-day different (like using acoustic guitars on 'Soul Searchin', according to Andy). But maybe not.

I always got the impression that Paley was involved in both groups of sessions. Was he not involved at all in the Was sessions?

I'm not sure. He might have been.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Unfortunately, I'm not sure. It came out after the Goldmine interview, I do know that much. Sometime later in the year.

Well, I can't see his name on the little cover pictures, so I don't know which one to get, sadly.

http://recordcollectormag.com/issues-list/2000

[Wirestone]

I would like to point out that the reason the Paley sessions didn't come out has nothing to do with the powers that be around Brian or any such nonsense. The fact is, the Beach Boys ultimately rejected the tracks. And Brian and Andy could not get a record label interested in releasing the songs as a solo project. And once some time passes, Brian tends to let projects go and move on to the next thing.

Joe Thomas may have his negative points, but he does manage to get labels to release music by Brian Wilson. Andy Paley failed at that.

[DonnyL]

Andy rockin' the Bass VI!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG6YHwjTTnc

[DonnyL]

I would like to point out that the reason the Paley sessions didn't come out has nothing to do with the powers that be around Brian or any such nonsense. The fact is, the Beach Boys ultimately rejected the tracks. And Brian and Andy could not get a record label interested in releasing the songs as a solo project. And once some time passes, Brian tends to let projects go and move on to the next thing.

Joe Thomas may have his negative points, but he does manage to get labels to release music by Brian Wilson. Andy Paley failed at that.

I don't think that's necessarily true ...

But in any case, I'm not really sure who the 'powers that be' are in this case, but I'm basically saying that these recordings didn't have any support system (from the Beach Boys, Brian's managers, record labels, whomever) because they are a little bit odd (I'd say too legit) for people to know what to do with. I think Love You was the last album where they really just sort of went with the strangeness. Afterward, Adult Child got canned and we got MIU instead. I don't think it's just the Beach Boys, as most of Brian's solo material that has been released is very 'safe' ... i.e., it conforms to commercial standards and/or Pet Sounds/Smile-type idioms (i.e., 'Rio Grande').

I think Carl probably heard the tracks as uncommercial or strange or demo-like and didn't want another 'Love You' kind of album. And there's a story out there somewhere in which Carl says to Sean O'Hagen (during a conversation on a plane flight) that he doesn't believe the Beach Boys are capable of producing an 'artistic' record. Which explains his willingness to go along with Summer in Paradise, Stars & Stripes, etc. but not the Paley stuff. Or maybe he just didn't like the songs. And let's face it -- his solo albums are very much sort of MOR/commercial kinds of affairs, as are all of the projects he was involved with in the '80s-'90s. Kind of just seemed like where he was at at the time.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Regarding Carl's problems with the 1995 sessions and material, bear in mind that, very likely, this was when he realised he had a serious health problem brewing. I know his cancer was publicly announced spring 1997, but from speaking to certain folk and from personal observation, there was patently something amiss late 1995/early 1996.

[runnersdialzero]

You might be thinking of "Lay Down Your Burden" which Carl was going to sing on Imagination, which ultimately turned into "Spring Vacation." Keep in mind, however, that "Lay Down Burden" is not the same "Lay Down Burden" that is actually on Imagination. Confusing, yes, I know.

Reading this, I believe you are correct:

I really do need to update that timeline.

Wanted to clarify that Carl never rejected what became "Spring Vacation" (that we know of, anyway), Brian simply said Carl was meant to sing the original version but passed away before it could be completed in 1998.

[monicker]

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

I wonder about this a lot and have a strong suspicion that this is what's been going on for many years now. Like you said, basically since Love You.

[SMiLE Brian]

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

I wonder about this a lot and have a strong suspicion that this is what's been going on for many years now. Like you said, basically since Love You.

We need "free Brian Wilson" t-shirts...

[Wirestone]

I would like to point out that the reason the Paley sessions didn't come out has nothing to do with the powers that be around Brian or any such nonsense. The fact is, the Beach Boys ultimately rejected the tracks. And Brian and Andy could not get a record label interested in releasing the songs as a solo project. And once some time passes, Brian tends to let projects go and move on to the next thing.

Joe Thomas may have his negative points, but he does manage to get labels to release music by Brian Wilson. Andy Paley failed at that.

I don't think that's necessarily true ...

But in any case, I'm not really sure who the 'powers that be' are in this case, but I'm basically saying that these recordings didn't have any support system (from the Beach Boys, Brian's managers, record labels, whomever) because they are a little bit odd (I'd say too legit) for people to know what to do with. I think Love You was the last album where they really just sort of went with the strangeness. Afterward, Adult Child got canned and we got MIU instead. I don't think it's just the Beach Boys, as most of Brian's solo material that has been released is very 'safe' ... i.e., it conforms to commercial standards and/or Pet Sounds/Smile-type idioms (i.e., 'Rio Grande').

I think Carl probably heard the tracks as uncommercial or strange or demo-like and didn't want another 'Love You' kind of album. And there's a story out there somewhere in which Carl says to Sean O'Hagen (during a conversation on a plane flight) that he doesn't believe the Beach Boys are capable of producing an 'artistic' record. Which explains his willingness to go along with Summer in Paradise, Stars & Stripes, etc. but not the Paley stuff. Or maybe he just didn't like the songs. And let's face it -- his solo albums are very much sort of MOR/commercial kinds of affairs, as are all of the projects he was involved with in the '80s-'90s. Kind of just seemed like where he was at at the time.

It really seems like some inside folks are against presenting the 'weird' side of BW and the Beach Boys' music.

I wonder about this a lot and have a strong suspicion that this is what's been going on for many years now. Like you said, basically since Love You.

 

So, apparently, an example of Brian being commercial is ... Rio Grande. Really? And an example of him being uncommercial is the ... Paley sessions. Which he wrote and recorded and played with the same guy.

And Brian's people don't want his weird, experimental stuff out. Except that they released and toured Smile for two years.

And these similar, shady people have a vendetta against the Paley songs -- except, I suppose, for the eight or so that have been released on Brian Wilson and Beach Boys records. (Soul Searchin, You're Still A Mystery, GIOMH, Desert Drive, Saturday Morning in the City, This Song Wants to Sleep With You Tonight, In My Moondreams, Where Has Love Been.)

Record companies wouldn't release this stuff because they're trying to stifle Brian. But isn't it also possible they didn't think the songs were that great? Look at the list above: What are the real, enduring classics in there? I'd say maybe two or three, at most. And those ones got released.

I would like to point out, too -- Saturday Morning in the City. That was issued. On a Brian Wilson solo album. And his quirky side is being censored?

The Paley sessions aren't terrible. But because they haven't come out, they've become a symbol of Brian being manipulated or exploited. I think if they're listened to objectively, they're a deeply conservative batch of songs, many of which are heavily influenced by Paley ("I wrote all of Soul Searchin' before Brian even saw it!").

Imagination was arguably a bigger artistic gamble (taking Brian's trademark sound in search f new audiences), and ultimately a successful one (a genuine AC hit and the starting point for his band and touring career). One can understand why he saw it as a more artistically challenging and fulfilling path.

[runnersdialzero]

They acknowledge the "weirdness", but only in a very limited, controlled way and occasionally when it suits their needs.

One need only listen to the 2nd verse of the '04 version of "Surf's Up" compared to the original to hear their take on Brian's "weirdness" compared to what Brian used to do. That's just one example on the '04 album (which I do like, don't get me wrong) when compared to the original sessions, really. Again, it's allowed, but only in a controlled and limited manner.

But then a lot of Smile music and stuff like "Saturday Morning In The City" isn't especially weird to me. Also observe how the stuff we're told Brian was most "hands on" with production-wise and the songs that are a slightly (slightly!) more "out there" (in the context of the albums) being designated to bonus tracks etc. in recent years.

Brian repeatedly naming Love You as one of his favorite Beach Boys albums yet barely touching on it live in the last decade coupled with Jeff's known distaste for it and Brian telling a fan "You'd have to ask Jeff" when asked why they're not playing a particular song really speaks volumes, I think.