Mike Love: 'There are a lot of fallacies about me'

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I crafted each of those question marks, pixel by pixel for Cam Mott, I can't believe you're trying to take this away from me 

It was beautiful punctuation Quzi. Don't fret, I noticed!

[Nicko1234]

Er... 'scuse me, but I compiled that list.  

I crafted each of those question marks, pixel by pixel for Cam Mott, I can't believe you're trying to take this away from me  

Also, since we're playing the credit game this way, hasn't the big man said "Surfin' U.S.A." had a little bit of Love in it? Berry/Wilson/Bowles/Love?

Bowles doesn`t deserve a writing credit if all he did was list a bunch of places any more than Mike would deserve a songwriting credit for Back in the USSR. And Brian has indeed said that he and Mike wrote the lyrics together.

I didn`t know Mike had a writing credit on the song Friends?

Doesn`t Mike now have a writing credit on Dance, Dance, Dance?

And did he always have a credit on Little Honda or was that added after the lawsuit?

[filledeplage]

Phoenix - the essential underlying fact is that Brian and Mike ARE the founding composer-lyricist members.

Maybe but I wouldn't quite put it that way. The first album is more of a Wilson/Usher affair. Mike has 3 writing credits on the second album. He has a four on the third but then the fourth is a Wilson/Christian effort. Only from the 5th studio through to the 9th does Mike have a kind of co-writer position on the album, which is significant but his role as such comes fairly late in the game.

Surfin' (the first single) November 1961, and Surfin' Safari are Brian-Mike.  June, 1962. And, 4-0-9 is Wilson, Usher, Love.
The Shift, Brian, Mike. Chug-a-Lug is Wilson, Usher, Love. Mike is on 5 of 12.  And, Mike has leads on 8 of 12.
Brian has one, Dennis has one, Dave has one, and the remaining one is an instrumental.
Album - October, 1962.

Well, technically it was 1/2 Dave and 1/2 Carl sharing lead vocals on that one. And I hear Carl more than Dave.

Mikie - that came from wiki. Wiki is NOT scholarly, but is a good starting point to check out. Maybe someone from BRI or Capitol, has editing permission, I don't know.  But, I was surprised that Mike had so many leads.  Brian had apparent confidence in his ability.

But, the "style" screams Michael Edward. I find it consistent, throughout.  Mike is straightforward.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Bowles doesn`t deserve a writing credit if all he did was list a bunch of places any more than Mike would deserve a songwriting credit for Back in the USSR. And Brian has indeed said that he and Mike wrote the lyrics together.

I didn`t know Mike had a writing credit on the song Friends?

Doesn`t Mike now have a writing credit on Dance, Dance, Dance?

And did he always have a credit on Little Honda or was that added after the lawsuit?

Respectively...

Yes he does - Brian asked him to provide a list of surfing spots, and that list was used in the song, as lyrics. Ergo, he contributed lyrics. If Mike can be legally awarded a credit for "Good night baby/Sleep tight baby" them Bowlles surely does.

You're correct, he doesn't. My error.

Yup. Again, my mistake. Sorry.

No: that credit predates the lawsuit - it's in the 1990 2fers.

[filledeplage]

Bravo! That is the difference! The Touring Band "regulars" (concert goers) almost always see Brian, Al and David, but the "exclusive Brian fans" don't/won't see the Touring Band, as though it was "beneath their (pseudo) artistic dignity."

Speaking as a regular attendee at Brian Wilson shows down here in Oz, who's seen Mike & Bruce on their own once?  The difference has nothing to do with "artistic dignity" (pseudo or otherwise), and everything to do with the fact that, for many years, Mike & Bruce's shows were routinely reviewed as being, frankly, crap.

That began to turn around in the post-Kowalski era, and as the reputation of Totten, Cowsill, et al gradually spread my willingness to go see them improved too.  Once I finally caught them at the Opera House, I'd be entirely happy to go see them again -- I'm looking forward to their next show in town.

But the difference actually is about the music, as well as the man in front.  A mediocre Beach Boys cover band (or these days, a very good Beach Boys cover band) with the original lead singer, or a damaged Brian backed by *one of the best damn bands I've seen anywhere*?

If Brian is supposedly being carried creatively by the other band members on his recent albums, then from where I'm standing, that just underlines what gorgeous work the band around him is doing.

And that's before we get into the fact that, despite lots of people attempting to claim that the shows are basically the same, the last two Brian Wilson shows I saw included a complete performance of "That Lucky Old Sun" and a Gershwin mini-set.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Jon - I'm jealous you saw Gershwin! It wasn't anywhere near me, and one out-of-state show, I didn't know about till it was over.  My experience is that after going to BB theme stuff, you "run into" some of the same great fans.  That would create a sort of Venn diagram, where there is a sort of "crossover" with some of the same people attending all BB related events. I always see Brian.

That said, there is a certain "snob zone" quality at Brian's shows, where there isn't an interest to see the Touring Band, and there is a sneer attached.  This isn't the band, who are absolutely awesome. Nelson and Probyn whom I've met and had a chance to chat with are great down-to-earth guys. (and New Englanders!)

It is the oft stuck-up fans, who look down their noses at the Touring Band, as "non-artistic" and a "fraud." These are often Pet Sounds and SMiLE centristic, and who refuse to see the growth and prefiguration of the earlier work.  They don't appreciate the work on Today, or the thread of thematic Brian-driven foresight which led to this work, which was very marginalized in its' own time.  Brian (and the band) grew with each song. And, yet, these fans who are Brian-only "party" when Brian does the "dirty old BB hit parade" that they dump on with regard the Touring Band, as "sell-outs" (pun intended!)  I find it perplexing.

And, in fairness, the Touring Band is usually a sell-out.  It wasn't always that way, but they've built a successful business model. And, their guys are very good. I notice since C50, the Touring Band is better than ever, especially Bonhomme and Christian.  They used the off-stage time wisely (even if Bonhomme was on the C50 road.) He is on rockin' fire, now.  And, Totten and Cowsill have brought back the C50 experience with an confidently explosive "can-do" attitude.  It is readily transparent in the recently added Wild Honey.  

[oldsurferdude]

* denotes a song where Mike was awarded co-credit in the 1994 lawsuit.
Top 40 in yellow
#1s in bold yellow

  3 - California Girls (Wilson/Love)

? ? ? ? ? ?

Brian has stated for decades that Mike wrote the lyric, but wasn't credited.

OSD will even give Mike California Girls!

Whatever, but myKe luHv can have all the credit he wants for that wreck of a song Sumah Hannah which has to be the  definitive example of the garbage that is spewed by the frontclown. Total dreck. Sorry Pinder.

[drbeachboy]

* denotes a song where Mike was awarded co-credit in the 1994 lawsuit.
Top 40 in yellow
#1s in bold yellow

  3 - California Girls (Wilson/Love)

? ? ? ? ? ?

Brian has stated for decades that Mike wrote the lyric, but wasn't credited.

OSD will even give Mike California Girls!

Whatever, but myKe luHv can have all the credit he wants for that wreck of a song Sumah Hannah which has to be the  definitive example of the garbage that is spewed by the frontclown. Total dreck. Sorry Pinder.

So, are there any songs which Mike wrote or co-wrote without Brian that wasn't garbage to your ears?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Well I've recently begun to suspect that OSD is Mike Love, and he's playing the ultimate headfuck on us.

[ontor pertawst]

All we have to do is pry off the pinky rings and he'll lose his magic powers.

Actually, doesn't he ascribe magical properties to the rings in the Stern interview?  In the land of summer where the shadows lie!

[drbeachboy]

All we have to do is pry off the pinky rings and he'll lose his magic powers.

Actually, doesn't he ascribe magical properties to the rings in the Stern interview?  In the land of summer where the shadows lie!

Referred to as "My Precious".

[Don Malcolm]

Well I've recently begun to suspect that OSD is Mike Love, and he's playing the ultimate headfuck on us.

Fascinating idea, Stephen. Can we have someone post a poll here on whether the community as a whole thinks that Mike Love has the kind of sense of humor that would come up with such a stunt? After all, it's Brian who is widely known as the "master of the put-on"....

[Doo Dah]

Jon - I'm jealous you saw Gershwin! It wasn't anywhere near me, and one out-of-state show, I didn't know about till it was over.  My experience is that after going to BB theme stuff, you "run into" some of the same great fans.  That would create a sort of Venn diagram, where there is a sort of "crossover" with some of the same people attending all BB related events. I always see Brian.

That said, there is a certain "snob zone" quality at Brian's shows, where there isn't an interest to see the Touring Band, and there is a sneer attached.  This isn't the band, who are absolutely awesome. Nelson and Probyn whom I've met and had a chance to chat with are great down-to-earth guys. (and New Englanders!)

It is the oft stuck-up fans, who look down their noses at the Touring Band, as "non-artistic" and a "fraud." These are often Pet Sounds and SMiLE centristic, and who refuse to see the growth and prefiguration of the earlier work.  They don't appreciate the work on Today, or the thread of thematic Brian-driven foresight which led to this work, which was very marginalized in its' own time.  Brian (and the band) grew with each song. And, yet, these fans who are Brian-only "party" when Brian does the "dirty old BB hit parade" that they dump on with regard the Touring Band, as "sell-outs" (pun intended!)  I find it perplexing.

And, in fairness, the Touring Band is usually a sell-out.  It wasn't always that way, but they've built a successful business model. And, their guys are very good. I notice since C50, the Touring Band is better than ever, especially Bonhomme and Christian.  They used the off-stage time wisely (even if Bonhomme was on the C50 road.) He is on rockin' fire, now.  And, Totten and Cowsill have brought back the C50 experience with an confidently explosive "can-do" attitude.  It is readily transparent in the recently added Wild Honey.  

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place.

Regarding the highlighted yellow - yup, guilty as charged! Look, I've seen M&B maybe four times. The mindset to those events was always 'oh well...here goes...party time'. The Brian shows are an event. It's like Single Malt vs. Canadian Club. (you can still have a good time with Canadian Club, but you get the drift)

A lasting hipster memory to me: the Tuesday night @ midnight cue outside of Easy Street Records in Seattle. Thirty strong, a band of 20 something hipsters were waiting to buy SMiLE. Not a Hawaiian Shirt or Republican within miles of that place! 

I kind of keep it under my hat when I decide to take in a M&B show. I've got street cred, after all. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Wow! First "Wild Honey" as an encore, now "Goin' To The Beach". Keep up the great work, guys! Which begs the question with some deductive reasoning...

Because they performed it live, it must've been rehearsed. If it was rehearsed, there was good chance (?) it was going to eventually be worked into the setlist. If it was going to be worked into the setlist, there had to be a reason why. Why this song over other unreleased songs and/or lesser known BB album tracks? Is it possible that "Goin' To The Beach" will be released as a single in conjunction with the release of MIC?

EDIT -  Sorry, I posted this in the wrong thread. It was meant for the Hyde Park thread. I posted it there also.

[AndrewHickey]

Wow! First "Wild Honey" as an encore, now "Goin' To The Beach". Keep up the great work, guys! Which begs the question with some deductive reasoning...

Because they performed it live, it must've been rehearsed. If it was rehearsed, there was good chance (?) it was going to eventually be worked into the setlist. If it was going to be worked into the setlist, there had to be a reason why. Why this song over other unreleased songs and/or lesser known BB album tracks? Is it possible that "Goin' To The Beach" will be released as a single in conjunction with the release of MIC?

I suspect that's pretty likely, especially as it's a 'new' track, with fresh overdubs. And it would make sense that the band would want to promote the box set when it comes out, and it's the only one of the unreleased songs on the box that would make sense for a Mike & Bruce tour.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

[AndrewHickey]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

He didn't say *which* Gershwin. Tom Gershwin is playing New York next week http://www.tomgershwinmusic.com/shows.html

[Doo Dah]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

Yes. The horse carriage let us out by the front alcove. It was sublime. Afterwards we ate roasted chestnuts and spoke of many things.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

Ummm... my reading of this statement is that he saw Brian's Gershwin tour, a notion which is supported by the whole of the post, viz. "I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place. " 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

Ummm... my reading of this statement is that he saw Brian's Gershwin tour, a notion which is supported by the whole of the post, viz. "I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place. " 

Is this a double bluff? Are you pretending to think that I was being serious. I'm genuinely confused now.

[Andrew G. Doe]

You'll never know...

[Jason]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

Ummm... my reading of this statement is that he saw Brian's Gershwin tour, a notion which is supported by the whole of the post, viz. "I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place. " 

Is this a double bluff? Are you pretending to think that I was being serious. I'm genuinely confused now.

Are you even aware of what board you're currently posting on? This is the same board where people make such outlandish claims like "Mike Love is like Hitler", "Brian Wilson is a genius", "Al Jardine wanted the innocence"...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

Ummm... my reading of this statement is that he saw Brian's Gershwin tour, a notion which is supported by the whole of the post, viz. "I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place. " 

Is this a double bluff? Are you pretending to think that I was being serious. I'm genuinely confused now.

Are you even aware of what board you're currently posting on?

I'm not sure,  but there's a bright light............and you're there

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And other than Nelson, and Darian and the core guys for their inspiration to Brian, I don't really see what's so amazing about Brian's band that puts Mike and Bruce's to shame?

Thanks to Brian's band, I've heard Pet Sounds played, beginning to end, with every bass harmonica, banjo, baritone sax, French horn and bicycle horn faithfully represented, played with feeling and skill.  I've heard Smile, live -- let me repeat that in case people forget how astonishing that is:  I've heard SMILE, live -- a bunch of fragments and feels that became a musical whole onstage, like watching the Mona Lisa get up and dance.  I've heard a wall of guitars on "Marcella", I've heard an exuberant "All Summer Long" with proper mallets plonking along.  I've heard a "Please Let Me Wonder" which sounds not like a rock band but like a Wall Of Sound session.  I've heard tracks like "Your Imagination" and "Melt Away" come to life in a way the records never did.  I've heard this band pull off everything from an off-the-cuff "Ruby Baby" before a small crowd in Canberra, to "Pinball Wizard" at a soundcheck, to an acapella "Rhapsody In Blue".

Now, no disrespect to Scott, John, and the rest of the current touring Beach Boys, but they don't even have enough hands to cover all those parts.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

But what I'm saying it, with music this good, any number of skilled musicians could play them with the right amount of direction. Mike's band too.... As for many of the songs, Marcella especially: Brian's band can't touch the early 70's touring band with a 50 foot pole..... Nor can you just assume that a band with more members by law has to blow away a leaner/meaner band playing some of the same stuff.... They're two different bands, only Mike's has the better drummer

Oh, and you heard all those songs as sung by Jeff Foskett! .... Wowzers! ;P

[Heysaboda]

The champagne was drunk

How dare you go on to comment about the state of the champagne at Dennis' memorial?

By the way, I'm pretty sure it was "drank", not drunk.

Andrew is correct. Past participle of drink is drunk
Drink - present
Drank - simple past
Drunk - past participle.

It's actually getrunken. In German.

Example: Ich hab' zuviel getrunken.

Isadora Dunken
Worked the Telefunken.........

[SMiLE Brian]

Jon - I'm jealous you saw Gershwin! It wasn't anywhere near me, and one out-of-state show, I didn't know about till it was over.  My experience is that after going to BB theme stuff, you "run into" some of the same great fans.  That would create a sort of Venn diagram, where there is a sort of "crossover" with some of the same people attending all BB related events. I always see Brian.

That said, there is a certain "snob zone" quality at Brian's shows, where there isn't an interest to see the Touring Band, and there is a sneer attached.  This isn't the band, who are absolutely awesome. Nelson and Probyn whom I've met and had a chance to chat with are great down-to-earth guys. (and New Englanders!)

It is the oft stuck-up fans, who look down their noses at the Touring Band, as "non-artistic" and a "fraud." These are often Pet Sounds and SMiLE centristic, and who refuse to see the growth and prefiguration of the earlier work.  They don't appreciate the work on Today, or the thread of thematic Brian-driven foresight which led to this work, which was very marginalized in its' own time.  Brian (and the band) grew with each song. And, yet, these fans who are Brian-only "party" when Brian does the "dirty old BB hit parade" that they dump on with regard the Touring Band, as "sell-outs" (pun intended!)  I find it perplexing.

And, in fairness, the Touring Band is usually a sell-out.  It wasn't always that way, but they've built a successful business model. And, their guys are very good. I notice since C50, the Touring Band is better than ever, especially Bonhomme and Christian.  They used the off-stage time wisely (even if Bonhomme was on the C50 road.) He is on rockin' fire, now.  And, Totten and Cowsill have brought back the C50 experience with an confidently explosive "can-do" attitude.  It is readily transparent in the recently added Wild Honey.  

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place.

Regarding the highlighted yellow - yup, guilty as charged! Look, I've seen M&B maybe four times. The mindset to those events was always 'oh well...here goes...party time'. The Brian shows are an event. It's like Single Malt vs. Canadian Club. (you can still have a good time with Canadian Club, but you get the drift)

A lasting hipster memory to me: the Tuesday night @ midnight cue outside of Easy Street Records in Seattle. Thirty strong, a band of 20 something hipsters were waiting to buy SMiLE. Not a Hawaiian Shirt or Republican within miles of that place! 

I kind of keep it under my hat when I decide to take in a M&B show. I've got street cred, after all. 

Its hard to see you at a M&B show....