Mike Love: 'There are a lot of fallacies about me'

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Given that Brian has worked his best material when sitting at the piano with his collaborators (Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher), is it really that outlandish that Mike would want to sit at a piano and work with him?

Is that how he did it, really? Heroes and Villains seems to have been a song way before Van Dyke was involved, and the same can be said about Tony Asher and You Still Believe in Me and Wouldn't It Be Nice. My thinking was that Brian typically had the basic music down before the lyricists got involved but I really don't know what the process was.

My understanding from Tony is mostly they worked together at Brian's house with Tony helping with some musical ideas and Brian helping with some lyrical ideas and Tony would also hone the lyrics or ideas at his home in the evenings.

I don't think the pre-VDP H&V made it to their collaboration which also happened mostly with them together at Brian's house even at the piano in the sandbox as I understand it.

The point is is that in both cases, they may have worked together at a particular point but Brian had done a great deal of composing on his own before it got to that point.

And the other point is that may be true but they were working together without "others", except occasionally Marilyn, in a room which is what Mike also enjoyed and prefers.

Let's hope Brian doesn't suggest writing out doors with Mike because that "room" seems to be a really crucial piece of the pie. What a fu(k!ng baby...

[guitarfool2002]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Agreed, the main problem with Mike seems to be his unwillingness to let go of the past and accept change in the BBs. This is a man still obsessed with a long passed "surf" fad from the early 1960s.

I think a lot of that comes down to trying to get the most bang for the buck through marketing. The surf tag and all the trappings is the most convenient and most proven marketing for the band's name.

It was an interesting dynamic to be at one of Brian's earlier shows when he started touring with The Wondermints and Taylor and all of that crew, and it seemed like they were really straddling a line between that surf image and the Brian image. Because inside Symphony Hall, as Brian was running through tunes from Pet Sounds and whatnot which we were so thrilled to be hearing live, the beach balls started to appear and some in the crowd started batting them around. Depending on your feelings about both the venue and what was happening on stage, it was either fun or inappropriate for the time and place. Yet on subsequent concert videos, there again were the beach balls shown on camera. And I'll need to dig out some old photos of that Boston show, but I think Hawaiian shirts were part of the stage look, along with perhaps some other surf-y images, but I just can't remember offhand.

And it did create an interesting scene where it looked like those staging Brian's show wanted to both showcase and distance themselves from the image which Mike and the BB's band have branded and thrive under.

[oldsurferdude]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Agreed, the main problem with Mike seems to be his unwillingness to let go of the past and accept change in the BBs. This is a man still obsessed with a long passed "surf" fad from the early 1960s.

Exactly!  

[rab2591]

Given that Brian has worked his best material when sitting at the piano with his collaborators (Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher), is it really that outlandish that Mike would want to sit at a piano and work with him?

Is that how he did it, really? Heroes and Villains seems to have been a song way before Van Dyke was involved, and the same can be said about Tony Asher and You Still Believe in Me and Wouldn't It Be Nice. My thinking was that Brian typically had the basic music down before the lyricists got involved but I really don't know what the process was.

My understanding from Tony is mostly they worked together at Brian's house with Tony helping with some musical ideas and Brian helping with some lyrical ideas and Tony would also hone the lyrics or ideas at his home in the evenings.

I don't think the pre-VDP H&V made it to their collaboration which also happened mostly with them together at Brian's house even at the piano in the sandbox as I understand it.

The point is is that in both cases, they may have worked together at a particular point but Brian had done a great deal of composing on his own before it got to that point.

And the other point is that may be true but they were working together without "others", except occasionally Marilyn, in a room which is what Mike also enjoyed and prefers.

Exactly. Why it's difficult for people to understand this is beyond me. So Mike wants to work alone with his cousin...does this really make him seem childish? It's a simple request, though not easily fulfilled when Joe Thomas is co-writing nearly every song.

[filledeplage]

As someone else recently noted, Brian's shows with Al and Dave will feature the guy who wrote VERY close to all they music they're likely to perform, the best current singer of any of the Beach Boys, the best Beach Boys instrumentalist, plus (in at least mine and Brian's opinions ) the best Beach Boys non-Brian falsetto singer.  Mike and Bruce do have the original voice on most of the early stuff but it just seems odd when that group plays stuff like "God Only Knows", "Wouldn't It Be Nice", and "Help Me Rhonda", without Carl, Brian, or Al; especially in short sets like the most recent Hyde Park show. 
Brian's shows have always kinda been about "the music of Brian Wilson" and Al and Dave will probably make them seem even more like "the Beach Boys".

Seriously, have people been asleep like Rip Van Winkle for 15 years? What did they think Mike and Brian have done all this time? Skip big hits because the "original singer" on the recording wasn't there? Brian sang lead on Little St. Nick at a show I saw around 2005, to the great delight of the fans, in July! Of course they cover the core setlist.  He covers Mike's or Al's or Carl's leads.
At Al's shows, they cover GOK, WIBN, and Rhonda! They've always switched around leads.  Carl did Dennis' stuff, did Rhonda for a while; no one "owned" every song per se.

When Carl was singing Rhonda and Al was singing Brian's stuff, etc. there weren't two separate oldies acts with different members competing for the same live audiences.  There was one BEACH BOYS.  They were still an active band at the time and mostly a democracy, with all the autonomy and "right" to play whatever they wanted.  Mike and Bruce might be “the Beach Boys” now but the band is very different than they once were and I think their sets should reflect that.  Likewise, I think Al's solo show should have focused on pretty much all of HIS Beach Boys lead vocals and/or productions, peppered with just enough of the early hits to keep the casual fans interested.

Using another band as an example, Styx’s Tommy Shaw and James Young have enough songs between them to fill a whole show but still perform most of Dennis DeYoung's concert staples.  I think it's disrespectful to him and the fans to keep structuring the setlists like nothing’s changed (especially since they fired DeYoung).

On the other hand, I feel the Monkees do it right.  In 1986, when the three Monkees reunited for the first time without Nesmith, the set was comprised of a bunch of their songs, with only one original Mike song, done to acknowledge his contribution to the group.  When Peter Tork quit the tour in 1999, Dolenz and Jones returned the following year with a setlist that reflected his absence:  Most of Tork's songs were cut and replaced with more songs originally sung by the guys who were still there.  And when Davy Jones died and Mike returned to replace him, they dropped all but one of Davy's song (which was done as a tribute to him) and replaced them in the set with songs from Mike. 

When Brian performs, VERY nearly ALL of the music his band plays was originally composed or arranged for the Boys BY BRIAN.  Some of those songs were originally sung by him and some weren't but those that weren't WERE either composed, arranged, and/or produced by Brian.  I don't think it's weird for Mike to play stuff like "Good Vibrations" or "Darlin'" because while he didn't sing lead, compose, arrange, or produce them, he DID write the lyrics.  His role in those particular songs was as important as Brian's and even more important than Carl's.  I just think it's "wrong" for him to structure the setlists like it's the same Beach Boys it's always been. 

Another thing is that Brian just recently started utilizing other lead vocalists in his shows and even when he does it, NO ONE in the audience is EVER going to assume that Jeff or Darian are ALSO Brian Wilson!  Mike on the other hand presents his shows as being performed by “the Beach Boys” and sings his old background parts on some songs while (extremely talented) ringers do all the heavy lifting.  I'm not saying it's not his right as the licensee of the Beach Boys name in regards to touring.  I just think it feels like they're trying to put one over on the audience.  And now that there's two "name" groups out there (the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson) competing for the same audience, I think they should focus on what makes each of them unique.

Phoenix - the essential underlying fact is that Brian and Mike ARE the founding composer-lyricist members. All others were "added" on as they built the configuration with the help of Carl's guitar, Dave's guitar, Al, and Dennis ended up as a natural drummer.  And I wouldn't call the Touring Band "ringers." They are all talented musicians.  They did switch off with leads. That "Brian" music theory doesn't hold water for me.  Some stuff was "cover" doo wop. Yesterday I heard "In the Parking Lot," on some compilation. Great song, from the old days.  

Until BRI sits down and changes things, it will likely be the status quo.  They set the parameters of the touring. And apparently they abide by the terms set forth.  They play in the BB style.  I'm not worried about them competing. That is just ridiculous.  They all do something unique, even Al's great band.  But, Mike is doing some deeper stuff, which is great.
My take is that the long separation did them a world of good, as they had to learn to rely on themselves for the business end of things.  And looking at what "good" will come from this independent band thing, is how I look at all this stuff. It won't change my opinion of the great music.    

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Given that Brian has worked his best material when sitting at the piano with his collaborators (Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher), is it really that outlandish that Mike would want to sit at a piano and work with him?

Is that how he did it, really? Heroes and Villains seems to have been a song way before Van Dyke was involved, and the same can be said about Tony Asher and You Still Believe in Me and Wouldn't It Be Nice. My thinking was that Brian typically had the basic music down before the lyricists got involved but I really don't know what the process was.

My understanding from Tony is mostly they worked together at Brian's house with Tony helping with some musical ideas and Brian helping with some lyrical ideas and Tony would also hone the lyrics or ideas at his home in the evenings.

I don't think the pre-VDP H&V made it to their collaboration which also happened mostly with them together at Brian's house even at the piano in the sandbox as I understand it.

The point is is that in both cases, they may have worked together at a particular point but Brian had done a great deal of composing on his own before it got to that point.

And the other point is that may be true but they were working together without "others", except occasionally Marilyn, in a room which is what Mike also enjoyed and prefers.

Exactly. Why it's difficult for people to understand this is beyond me. So Mike wants to work alone with his cousin...does this really make him seem childish? It's a simple request, though not easily fulfilled when Joe Thomas is co-writing nearly every song.

The childish part isn't wanting it - the childish part is refusing to do anything if he doesn't get his way.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Phoenix - the essential underlying fact is that Brian and Mike ARE the founding composer-lyricist members.

Maybe but I wouldn't quite put it that way. The first album is more of a Wilson/Usher affair. Mike has 3 writing credits on the second album. He has a four on the third but then the fourth is a Wilson/Christian effort. Only from the 5th studio through to the 9th does Mike have a kind of co-writer position on the album, which is significant but his role as such comes fairly late in the game.

[Bicyclerider]

Also hasn't Carl said Mike is un-credited for a lot of harmony parts [not specifically GV].

I'm sure they all are to an extent but what do you mean by un-credited? Who gets credited for harmony parts?

I don't know how Carl meant that. I can guess his point was things were somewhat more collaborative then people think.

I think he meant Mike often came up with his own bass harmony parts.  

[JohnMill]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Agreed, the main problem with Mike seems to be his unwillingness to let go of the past and accept change in the BBs. This is a man still obsessed with a long passed "surf" fad from the early 1960s.

I don't think it matters anymore though.  A large part of The Beach Boys' appeal is their ability to draw as a nostalgia act.  Now I particularly don't like the fact that they are "sold" on television alongside the one hit wonders of the sixties but it's far too late to change any of that now.  I'd even gamble that a large number of people who showed up last year for the C50 were there to see the band relive their past glories one more time on stage and I think the people who were buying tickets to the show looking for that went home satisfied.  The same can be said for people who go see the M&B lineup, it's a nostalgia trip.  So I don't see any problem from that standpoint or any problem regarding Mike Love writing songs having to do with sixties nostalgia.  There is a section of the general public that eats that type of stuff up with a fork and spoon and like any entertainer worth his salt, Mike Love knows his audience and caters to them.  Obviously the "Endless Summer" stuff ticks the diehards off to no end but unless you want Mike Love jettisoned from "The Beach Boys" entirely I think by this time you should just accept him for who he is and move on.

Now if anything Mike Love needs to let go that his songwriting partnership with Brian Wilson isn't ever going to be what it was in the early sixties.  If Mike Love truly wants to work with his cousin and truly wants his cousin to be a part of The Beach Boys he's going to have to make some concessions to work with Brian Wilson under the circumstances that exist today.  One thing that has always stuck out to me about Brian Wilson is he always seemed to have this little entourage of people around him.  "The Beach Boys" were his entourage in the early sixties and obviously Mike Love being one his main songwriting partners during that era was a huge part of all that.  Then there was Van Dyke Parks and "The Vosse Posse", There was the period where he was Landylocked and all of his associations were allegedly governed by the doctor and since he's been free of that he's surrounded himself with his family and touring band.  Mike Love is just no longer in the loop as he once was and I really don't think there is a way for him to become part of Brian's inner circle again unless he's willing to capitulate to how Brian conducts his life and his business in 2013.  So from that regard yes Mike Love in my opinion needs to realize that it's not 1965 anymore and "The Beach Boys" are no longer Brian's main entourage of people of which he chooses to hang out with.

[SMiLE Brian]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Agreed, the main problem with Mike seems to be his unwillingness to let go of the past and accept change in the BBs. This is a man still obsessed with a long passed "surf" fad from the early 1960s.

I think a lot of that comes down to trying to get the most bang for the buck through marketing. The surf tag and all the trappings is the most convenient and most proven marketing for the band's name.

It was an interesting dynamic to be at one of Brian's earlier shows when he started touring with The Wondermints and Taylor and all of that crew, and it seemed like they were really straddling a line between that surf image and the Brian image. Because inside Symphony Hall, as Brian was running through tunes from Pet Sounds and whatnot which we were so thrilled to be hearing live, the beach balls started to appear and some in the crowd started batting them around. Depending on your feelings about both the venue and what was happening on stage, it was either fun or inappropriate for the time and place. Yet on subsequent concert videos, there again were the beach balls shown on camera. And I'll need to dig out some old photos of that Boston show, but I think Hawaiian shirts were part of the stage look, along with perhaps some other surf-y images, but I just can't remember offhand.

And it did create an interesting scene where it looked like those staging Brian's show wanted to both showcase and distance themselves from the image which Mike and the BB's band have branded and thrive under.

The marketing does make sense from Mike's view, but desperate need to live up to the "beach" image has led to some of the most cynical and souless musical material from Mike Love.

[rab2591]

Given that Brian has worked his best material when sitting at the piano with his collaborators (Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher), is it really that outlandish that Mike would want to sit at a piano and work with him?

Is that how he did it, really? Heroes and Villains seems to have been a song way before Van Dyke was involved, and the same can be said about Tony Asher and You Still Believe in Me and Wouldn't It Be Nice. My thinking was that Brian typically had the basic music down before the lyricists got involved but I really don't know what the process was.

My understanding from Tony is mostly they worked together at Brian's house with Tony helping with some musical ideas and Brian helping with some lyrical ideas and Tony would also hone the lyrics or ideas at his home in the evenings.

I don't think the pre-VDP H&V made it to their collaboration which also happened mostly with them together at Brian's house even at the piano in the sandbox as I understand it.

The point is is that in both cases, they may have worked together at a particular point but Brian had done a great deal of composing on his own before it got to that point.

And the other point is that may be true but they were working together without "others", except occasionally Marilyn, in a room which is what Mike also enjoyed and prefers.

Exactly. Why it's difficult for people to understand this is beyond me. So Mike wants to work alone with his cousin...does this really make him seem childish? It's a simple request, though not easily fulfilled when Joe Thomas is co-writing nearly every song.

The childish part isn't wanting it - the childish part is refusing to do anything if he doesn't get his way.

Why should he continue to be apart of a "band" that doesn't even acknowledge his request to write with a fellow bandmember? That doesn't even sound like a band.

He wasn't comfortable with the tour size, he wasn't comfortable with not being able to write with his cousin....there is obviously no band chemistry left. Why the hell would Mike stay in that environment? I can't blame him for leaving.

[filledeplage]

Phoenix - the essential underlying fact is that Brian and Mike ARE the founding composer-lyricist members.

Maybe but I wouldn't quite put it that way. The first album is more of a Wilson/Usher affair. Mike has 3 writing credits on the second album. He has a four on the third but then the fourth is a Wilson/Christian effort. Only from the 5th studio through to the 9th does Mike have a kind of co-writer position on the album, which is significant but his role as such comes fairly late in the game.

Surfin' (the first single) November 1961, and Surfin' Safari are Brian-Mike.  June, 1962. And, 4-0-9 is Wilson, Usher, Love.
The Shift, Brian, Mike. Chug-a-Lug is Wilson, Usher, Love. Mike is on 5 of 12.  And, Mike has leads on 8 of 12.
Brian has one, Dennis has one, Dave has one, and the remaining one is an instrumental.

Album - October, 1962.

[Cam Mott]

Given that Brian has worked his best material when sitting at the piano with his collaborators (Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher), is it really that outlandish that Mike would want to sit at a piano and work with him?

Is that how he did it, really? Heroes and Villains seems to have been a song way before Van Dyke was involved, and the same can be said about Tony Asher and You Still Believe in Me and Wouldn't It Be Nice. My thinking was that Brian typically had the basic music down before the lyricists got involved but I really don't know what the process was.

My understanding from Tony is mostly they worked together at Brian's house with Tony helping with some musical ideas and Brian helping with some lyrical ideas and Tony would also hone the lyrics or ideas at his home in the evenings.

I don't think the pre-VDP H&V made it to their collaboration which also happened mostly with them together at Brian's house even at the piano in the sandbox as I understand it.

The point is is that in both cases, they may have worked together at a particular point but Brian had done a great deal of composing on his own before it got to that point.

And the other point is that may be true but they were working together without "others", except occasionally Marilyn, in a room which is what Mike also enjoyed and prefers.

Let's hope Brian doesn't suggest writing out doors with Mike because that "room" seems to be a really crucial piece of the pie. What a fu(k!ng baby...

Yes. yes, I'm sure that's what it is. Not in a vestibule or garage or grotto or under an umbrella. Only in a room is the crucial bit.

[Paul J B]

Agreed, the main problem with Mike seems to be his unwillingness to let go of the past and accept change in the BBs. This is a man still obsessed with a long passed "surf" fad from the early 1960s.

He accepted change from Smiley Smile through Holland and it took Endless Summer and the revival of said fad in musical terms to make the Beach Boys popular again. How long was it between Endless Summer and Imagination.........about 25 years right? And what was it Brian was singing about in the first track on that album "....another bucket of sand another wave at the pier" ......sounds like a Mike Love line I guess.

[JohnMill]

Agreed, the main problem with Mike seems to be his unwillingness to let go of the past and accept change in the BBs. This is a man still obsessed with a long passed "surf" fad from the early 1960s.

He accepted change from Smiley Smile through Holland and it took Endless Summer and the revival of said fad in musical terms to make the Beach Boys popular again. How long was it between Endless Summer and Imagination.........about 25 years right? And what was it Brian was singing about in the first track on that album "....another bucket of sand another wave at the pier" ......sounds like a Mike Love line I guess.

I remember reading at the time that Brian Wilson wasn't exactly happy with the lyrics to "Imagination".  He particularly had issues with the line "I miss the way that I used to call the shots around here" so as much as I love that song, I've always wondered about the extent of Wilson's reservations surrounding it.

[Smilin Ed H]

I remember seeing an interview somewhere in which Carl mentioned that things got more difficult between band members when they stopped hanging around with each other. I can see that. However, there is a point where simple but affecting lyrics of yearning nostalgia like Do It Again turn in to self-referential crap like Summer of Love and I suspect that has less to do with who he writes with and more to do with his 'vision' of the band and where his head is rather than being allowed to sit in a room and write with Brian.

[drbeachboy]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Mike is an artist too. I think calling his behavior childish is bit much. As a full member of The Beach Boys, I suspect that he, along with Al have some say regarding an album project, should the need arise. Considering how fractured the band is at the moment, Mike may pull his weight to move a new project in a direction that he is comfortable with. If not, they don't record. Like AGD noted, they might be better off not recording another album. I think Mike has every right to share in the vision of a new project. If that means writing the bulk of the material with Brian, then so be it. It is a very simple dynamic, really.

[rab2591]

I remember seeing an interview somewhere in which Carl mentioned that things got more difficult between band members when they stopped hanging around with each other. I can see that. However, there is a point where simple but affecting lyrics of yearning nostalgia like Do It Again turn in to self-referential crap like Summer of Love and I suspect that has less to do with who he writes with and more to do with his 'vision' of the band and where his head is rather than being allowed to sit in a room and write with Brian.

That I'll definitely agree with. I doubt Mike could write anything more than nostalgia/beach-esque stuff...however, I think the quality of the lyrics would be a bit better if he had Brian to bounce ideas off of.

[drbeachboy]

I remember seeing an interview somewhere in which Carl mentioned that things got more difficult between band members when they stopped hanging around with each other. I can see that. However, there is a point where simple but affecting lyrics of yearning nostalgia like Do It Again turn in to self-referential crap like Summer of Love and I suspect that has less to do with who he writes with and more to do with his 'vision' of the band and where his head is rather than being allowed to sit in a room and write with Brian.

That's true, but on the other hand, writing directly with Brian can also help in bouncing ideas off of one another. If Brian is there insisting that a song should be about a certain topic, then that forces Mike to write about something different than what you say in your post above. This type of thing is a part of that dynamic of writing in the same room together.


@rab

We are thinking alike.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Mike is an artist too. I think calling his behavior childish is bit much. As a full member of The Beach Boys, I suspect that he, along with Al have some say regarding an album project, should the need arise. Considering how fractured the band is at the moment, Mike may pull his weight to move a new project in a direction that he is comfortable with. If not, they don't record. Like AGD noted, they might be better off not recording another album. I think Mike has every right to share in the vision of a new project. If that means writing the bulk of the material with Brian, then so be it. It is a very simple dynamic, really.

Well put..... BTW, I'd love to see Al and Mike in charge of a new album. I think they might have another MIU in them if they put their minds to it. I think we'd all  be perfectly happy at this point with something as good as MIU even..... And I think Brian could work wonders if Joe Thomas is nowhere to be seen.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I remember seeing an interview somewhere in which Carl mentioned that things got more difficult between band members when they stopped hanging around with each other. I can see that. However, there is a point where simple but affecting lyrics of yearning nostalgia like Do It Again turn in to self-referential crap like Summer of Love and I suspect that has less to do with who he writes with and more to do with his 'vision' of the band and where his head is rather than being allowed to sit in a room and write with Brian.

That's true, but on the other hand, writing directly with Brian can also help in bouncing ideas off of one another. If Brian is there insisting that a song should be about a certain topic, then that forces Mike to write about something different than what you say in your post above. This type of thing is a part of that dynamic of writing in the same room together.

Exactly!

I'm sure Mike was happy to get a cassette in the mail with a title "Beaches In Mind" but it still must have sucked quite a bit.... And here we are blaming him for writing about beaches.....

[drbeachboy]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Mike is an artist too. I think calling his behavior childish is bit much. As a full member of The Beach Boys, I suspect that he, along with Al have some say regarding an album project, should the need arise. Considering how fractured the band is at the moment, Mike may pull his weight to move a new project in a direction that he is comfortable with. If not, they don't record. Like AGD noted, they might be better off not recording another album. I think Mike has every right to share in the vision of a new project. If that means writing the bulk of the material with Brian, then so be it. It is a very simple dynamic, really.

Well put..... BTW, I'd love to see Al and Mike in charge of a new album. I think they might have another MIU in them if they put their minds to it. I think we'd all  be perfectly happy at this point with something as good as MIU even..... And I think Brian could work wonders if Joe Thomas is nowhere to be seen.

Hey, nobody is fooling anybody here. We all know, even Mike & Al know that Brian's participation is the key to any successful Beach Boys album. Musically, Brian is the man, no doubt about that.

[SMiLE Brian]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Mike is an artist too. I think calling his behavior childish is bit much. As a full member of The Beach Boys, I suspect that he, along with Al have some say regarding an album project, should the need arise. Considering how fractured the band is at the moment, Mike may pull his weight to move a new project in a direction that he is comfortable with. If not, they don't record. Like AGD noted, they might be better off not recording another album. I think Mike has every right to share in the vision of a new project. If that means writing the bulk of the material with Brian, then so be it. It is a very simple dynamic, really.

Well put..... BTW, I'd love to see Al and Mike in charge of a new album. I think they might have another MIU in them if they put their minds to it. I think we'd all  be perfectly happy at this point with something as good as MIU even..... And I think Brian could work wonders if Joe Thomas is nowhere to be seen.

MIU as the "gold standard" for a new BBs album scares me....

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Mike is an artist too. I think calling his behavior childish is bit much. As a full member of The Beach Boys, I suspect that he, along with Al have some say regarding an album project, should the need arise. Considering how fractured the band is at the moment, Mike may pull his weight to move a new project in a direction that he is comfortable with. If not, they don't record. Like AGD noted, they might be better off not recording another album. I think Mike has every right to share in the vision of a new project. If that means writing the bulk of the material with Brian, then so be it. It is a very simple dynamic, really.

Well put..... BTW, I'd love to see Al and Mike in charge of a new album. I think they might have another MIU in them if they put their minds to it. I think we'd all  be perfectly happy at this point with something as good as MIU even..... And I think Brian could work wonders if Joe Thomas is nowhere to be seen.

MIU as the "gold standard" for a new BBs album scares me....

A POSTCARD FROM SEAWORLD!

[Heysaboda]

I found the public comments following the piece more entertaining than the interview.

I wonder how many were from Smiley Smile Dot Net members?