Would Brian have stayed in music biz if Love went back to pumping gas?

[leggo of my ego]

Interesting question. Was Brian that dependant on others?

[Jason]

He probably would have and it would have been Al Jardine to blame for Smile being cancelled. Imagine that...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Doesn't it feel a little lowdown after a while to be bashing/making fun of a guy for............ having a job?

In today's economy, there are probably plenty of 19, 20, 21 year olds who would be happy to be pumping gas while paying for college or whatnot....

I'd like to know what we were all doing at that age that puts us in such a high and mighty position to slam M. Love for working at a gas station.

At least Mike knows what it's like to actually work for a living. Has Brian ever held a job?

[Jason]

I'm surprised you even gave him a serious response...this is a clear case of considering the source before responding.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, one way to weed out the half-wits is to try and actually engage them. Those with nothing to say or add will promptly fall off the map....... Or they might actually engage and we could possibly get somewhere. It's worth a shot.

[lostbeachboy]

In an ocean or in a glass
Cool water is such a gas   

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

If Mike had stayed pumping gas, today he might even own the place and it could be called "The Love Pump"!

I'd get gas there!

[oldsurferdude]

Doesn't it feel a little lowdown after a while to be bashing/making fun of a guy for............ having a job?

In today's economy, there are probably plenty of 19, 20, 21 year olds who would be happy to be pumping gas while paying for college or whatnot....

I'd like to know what we were all doing at that age that puts us in such a high and mighty position to slam M. Love for working at a gas station.

At least Mike knows what it's like to actually work for a living. Has Brian ever held a job?

Of course he did-he was his dad's punching bag.

[Cabinessenceking]

At least Mike knows what it's like to actually work for a living. Has Brian ever held a job?

Good point.

ML's father was a ture worker who did it all for his family. I'd like to think Murry tried to push hard work ethics onto his sons, but Brian started backing out after meeting obstacles he felt he couldn't deal with. However he did have some for of afflicted mentality even quite early so hard to compare. I'm sure ML treats his role in history as a hard working man in the entertainment business. He has every right to.

[SenorPotatoHead]

Pumping gas is the type of job a young man might have.  Not nowadays, of course, but back when they used to have such service at gas stations.   Mike was a young guy at that time, and whatever today's equivalent to pumping gas would be (flipping burgers?) there's no disgrace in someone doing that for an income no matter what their age.  
Personally though, I don't see Mike as being one to remain in that job for his life.   There may be issues I take with Love, but I don't count him as any dummy.  He may often seem tacky, tactless and treacly, but he's obviously got some intelligence and is a hard working guy.  I can easily imagine him having done just fine without the big music career.    And who knows, maybe he would have got into music and had a big career anyway (scenario interlude: Mike ends up meeting Arthur Lee, and they go on to form the band...Love...[Meanwhile, back at the ranch...]  Brian, Carl and Dennis along with Murry and Audrey start a career as The Wilson's, and Al Jardine combines his fondness for Folk and Dentistry as The Singing Dentist. Al records a duet album with The Singing Nun, and passion blooms, she leaves the Church for a life in Big Sur with Al.   Bruce and Terry fill the void left by the absence of a "Beach Boys" and become huge....oh, and Bruce ends up marrying Doris Day.   )

[SMiLE Brian]

At least Mike knows what it's like to actually work for a living. Has Brian ever held a job?

The Beach Boys hit making machine 1961-1967.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Pumping gas is the type of job a young man might have.  Not nowadays, of course, but back when they used to have such service at gas stations.   Mike was a young guy at that time, and whatever today's equivalent to pumping gas would be (flipping burgers?) there's no disgrace in someone doing that for an income no matter what their age.  
Personally though, I don't see Mike as being one to remain in that job for his life.   There may be issues I take with Love, but I don't count him as any dummy.  He may often seem tacky, tactless and treacly, but he's obviously got some intelligence and is a hard working guy.  I can easily imagine him having done just fine without the big music career.    And who knows, maybe he would have got into music and had a big career anyway (scenario interlude: Mike ends up meeting Arthur Lee, and they go on to form the band...Love...[Meanwhile, back at the ranch...]  Brian, Carl and Dennis along with Murry and Audrey start a career as The Wilson's, and Al Jardine combines his fondness for Folk and Dentistry as The Singing Dentist. Al records a duet album with The Singing Nun, and passion blooms, she leaves the Church for a life in Big Sur with Al.   Bruce and Terry fill the void left by the absence of a "Beach Boys" and become huge....oh, and Bruce ends up marrying Doris Day.   )

How about Carl and David forming a rock n roll band themselves and inventing punk many years ahead of schedule

[JohnMill]

My personal feeling on this matter is Brian Wilson would've had a successful career with or without Mike Love.  A similar question has also been debated for years on The Beatles forums about which members of The Fabs would've made it without the others.  The general consensus on that question has always been John Lennon and Paul McCartney would've had careers in the music industry without the others and George Harrison and Ringo Starr would not.

This is mainly based around the fact that John Lennon had the drive and Paul McCartney the limitless natural talent to succeed at whatever he attempted in life.  That isn't to say George Harrison or Ringo Starr didn't have any talent of their own but George developed his talent throughout the years The Beatles were enjoying all their success and Ringo for all intents and purposes, just being a Beatle "looms large in his legend".  The cream rises to the top so to speak and I think it is basically the same for Brian Wilson.  Now Brian obviously may have encountered some of the same issues with mental illness later on in life that could've derailed his career whether or not Mike Love was in the picture or not.  However, for me the bottom line is Brian Wilson with or without Mike Love would've found some type of success in the music industry if that is where he directed his creative energies back in the day.  Just too much of a talent not to have found success.  

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

My personal feeling on this matter is Brian Wilson would've had a successful career with or without Mike Love.  A similar question has also been debated for years on The Beatles forums about which members of The Fabs would've made it without the others.  The general consensus on that question has always been John Lennon and Paul McCartney would've had careers in the music industry without the others and George Harrison and Ringo Starr would not.

This is mainly based around the fact that John Lennon had the drive and Paul McCartney the limitless natural talent to succeed at whatever he attempted in life.  That isn't to say George Harrison or Ringo Starr didn't have any talent of their own but George developed his talent throughout the years The Beatles were enjoying all their success and Ringo for all intents and purposes, just being a Beatle "looms large in his legend".  The cream rises to the top so to speak and I think it is basically the same for Brian Wilson.  Now Brian obviously may have encountered some of the same issues with mental illness later on in life that could've derailed his career whether or not Mike Love was in the picture or not.  However, for me the bottom line is Brian Wilson with or without Mike Love would've found some type of success in the music industry if that is where he directed his creative energies back in the day.  Just too much of a talent not to have found success.  

But who would have driven Brian to even leave his house let-alone somehow get his music out there without a band? You remove Mike and Dennis and Al (both Mike and Al bugged Brian endlessly to start a band) from the Beach Boys story and it's hard to see anything really happening.

And I can easily see Mike forming or joining some doo-wop or surf punk outfit without Brian and achieving some sort of success.... It's stupid to speculate on this stuff.... I mean, how many other bands made it big in the world from that same era that had no Brian Wilson to leech off of?

And speaking of The Beatles: wasn't Ringo the only Beatle who was actually making a living off playing music before the Beatles were anyone?

[JohnMill]

My personal feeling on this matter is Brian Wilson would've had a successful career with or without Mike Love.  A similar question has also been debated for years on The Beatles forums about which members of The Fabs would've made it without the others.  The general consensus on that question has always been John Lennon and Paul McCartney would've had careers in the music industry without the others and George Harrison and Ringo Starr would not.

This is mainly based around the fact that John Lennon had the drive and Paul McCartney the limitless natural talent to succeed at whatever he attempted in life.  That isn't to say George Harrison or Ringo Starr didn't have any talent of their own but George developed his talent throughout the years The Beatles were enjoying all their success and Ringo for all intents and purposes, just being a Beatle "looms large in his legend".  The cream rises to the top so to speak and I think it is basically the same for Brian Wilson.  Now Brian obviously may have encountered some of the same issues with mental illness later on in life that could've derailed his career whether or not Mike Love was in the picture or not.  However, for me the bottom line is Brian Wilson with or without Mike Love would've found some type of success in the music industry if that is where he directed his creative energies back in the day.  Just too much of a talent not to have found success.  

But who would have driven Brian to even leave his house let-alone somehow get his music out there without a band? You remove Mike and Dennis and Al (both Mike and Al bugged Brian endlessly to start a band) from the Beach Boys story and it's hard to see anything really happening.

And I can easily see Mike forming or joining some doo-wop or surf punk outfit without Brian and achieving some sort of success.... It's stupid to speculate on this stuff.... I mean, how many other bands made it big in the world from that same era that had no Brian Wilson to leech off of?

And speaking of The Beatles: wasn't Ringo the only Beatle who was actually making a living off playing music before the Beatles were anyone?

First off you are right, it's pointless to debate this stuff but debate it people will.

Remember I didn't say Brian Wilson would've found success in the same way he did as a Beach Boy without the others.  All I said was that he would've found success without the others, something that I've never been convinced the others would have without him.  I don't subscribe to the "Brian & Five Idiots" theory but aside from Brian Wilson and Bruce Johnston, I'm not sure if the others ever find a foothold in the music industry outside of the vehicle that was The Beach Boys.

As for Ringo Starr, he was one of many drummers making a living playing music in the burgeoning music scene coming out of Liverpool at the time.  Was he "the best drummer in Liverpool" at the time?  It's quite possible but one thing is certain for roughly the first decade of his professional career he was certainly in the best band to come out of Liverpool if not the entire world.

[SenorPotatoHead]

But who would have driven Brian to even leave his house let-alone somehow get his music out there without a band? You remove Mike and Dennis and Al (both Mike and Al bugged Brian endlessly to start a band) from the Beach Boys story and it's hard to see anything really happening.

Murry?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

But who would have driven Brian to even leave his house let-alone somehow get his music out there without a band? You remove Mike and Dennis and Al (both Mike and Al bugged Brian endlessly to start a band) from the Beach Boys story and it's hard to see anything really happening.

Murry?

Was Murry running around insisting that Brian form a band?

............ no

[Paulos]

These sort of threads are ridiculous. Stop trying to make weird alternate timelines for people.

[SenorPotatoHead]

But who would have driven Brian to even leave his house let-alone somehow get his music out there without a band? You remove Mike and Dennis and Al (both Mike and Al bugged Brian endlessly to start a band) from the Beach Boys story and it's hard to see anything really happening.

Murry?

Was Murry running around insisting that Brian form a band?

............ no

No, Murry running around insisting Brian's music be heard, and pep talking/haranguing Brian into "fighting for success" (i.e. Brian has his own music career - like Paul Anka, only better.)  

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

My personal feeling on this matter is Brian Wilson would've had a successful career with or without Mike Love.  A similar question has also been debated for years on The Beatles forums about which members of The Fabs would've made it without the others.  The general consensus on that question has always been John Lennon and Paul McCartney would've had careers in the music industry without the others and George Harrison and Ringo Starr would not.

This is mainly based around the fact that John Lennon had the drive and Paul McCartney the limitless natural talent to succeed at whatever he attempted in life.  That isn't to say George Harrison or Ringo Starr didn't have any talent of their own but George developed his talent throughout the years The Beatles were enjoying all their success and Ringo for all intents and purposes, just being a Beatle "looms large in his legend".  The cream rises to the top so to speak and I think it is basically the same for Brian Wilson.  Now Brian obviously may have encountered some of the same issues with mental illness later on in life that could've derailed his career whether or not Mike Love was in the picture or not.  However, for me the bottom line is Brian Wilson with or without Mike Love would've found some type of success in the music industry if that is where he directed his creative energies back in the day.  Just too much of a talent not to have found success.  

But who would have driven Brian to even leave his house let-alone somehow get his music out there without a band? You remove Mike and Dennis and Al (both Mike and Al bugged Brian endlessly to start a band) from the Beach Boys story and it's hard to see anything really happening.

And I can easily see Mike forming or joining some doo-wop or surf punk outfit without Brian and achieving some sort of success.... It's stupid to speculate on this stuff.... I mean, how many other bands made it big in the world from that same era that had no Brian Wilson to leech off of?

And speaking of The Beatles: wasn't Ringo the only Beatle who was actually making a living off playing music before the Beatles were anyone?

First off you are right, it's pointless to debate this stuff but debate it people will.

Remember I didn't say Brian Wilson would've found success in the same way he did as a Beach Boy without the others.  All I said was that he would've found success without the others, something that I've never been convinced the others would have without him.  I don't subscribe to the "Brian & Five Idiots" theory but aside from Brian Wilson and Bruce Johnston, I'm not sure if the others ever find a foothold in the music industry outside of the vehicle that was The Beach Boys.

As for Ringo Starr, he was one of many drummers making a living playing music in the burgeoning music scene coming out of Liverpool at the time.  Was he "the best drummer in Liverpool" at the time?  It's quite possible but one thing is certain for roughly the first decade of his professional career he was certainly in the best band to come out of Liverpool if not the entire world.

Well put. But it says something that The Beatles were clamoring to get Ringo and the Stones were clamoring and scheming  to snag Charlie Watts. These little details are generally forgotten once bands make it big and all the other guys get the kudos... I absolutely think Brian would have made some sort of mark, but knowing what we do about Brian, It's almost impossible to imagine this without The Beach Boys or him having been born with two younger brothers and a cousin and friend who had musical aspirations themselves. Being shy and isolating is a bitch and it's nearly impossible to break out of such traits by oneself. We can look at the Beach Boys story and it seems that Brian did nearly everything/anything due to being bugged, prodded, nagged, and pushed (other than those years having the safe solace of the studio as his hive) . I mean, I'm sure he would have written songs. But an only child with an abusive father somehow managing to become a world famous musical genius without all the other ingredients we know went into the pot? .... It's a very daunting picture to imagine.

[SenorPotatoHead]

These sort of threads are ridiculous. Stop trying to make weird alternate timelines for people.

Why?  They're fun.   

[Paulos]

These sort of threads are ridiculous. Stop trying to make weird alternate timelines for people.

Why?  They're fun.   

Sorry but I find them pointless, although I guess if you subscribe to the infinite parallel universe hypothesis then Mike pumping gas is a reality somewhere and there is no such thing as The Beach Boys.

[leggo of my ego]

For Your Consideration.

From the Alternate Timeline Zone.

[Nicko1234]

For Your Consideration.

From the Alternate Timeline Zone.

Well done. Did you spend all day coming up with that? 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

For Your Consideration.

From the Alternate Timeline Zone.

I'm sorry, but if anyone in The Beach Boys is a rockstar it's Dennis and Mike. Dennis, by virture of being.....Dennis and Mike by being the frontman, lead singer, people-pisser-offer.

Brian is a musical genius, songwriter. Not the same thing as a rock star.

"The Love Pump" is better, but Love's Got Gas works too