Is Bruce an original member? No? Well, Mike's website claims he is.

[filledeplage]

Its just the 1980s songs were such low quality (wipe out, problem child, etc.) that the legacy was harmed with younger people thinking they were lame and the older fans really unhappy with their decline. The BBs were at times too desperate to get on the charts and tried to follow fads they had no clue about to stay "hip".

I'm not sure that the quality was low.  The listener was shifted into a different dynamic.  Someone mentioned Make it Big from Troop Beverly Hills which was very popular.  It wasn't Good Vibrations.  But, that and other songs had the Beach Boys style harmonies, and is almost subliminal in that background of film.  

Those films and TV shows, which might seem trite, were subtitled, dubbed, distributed, syndicated, got and still get global airplay, which keeps them "in the game." They didn't do a disappearing act as many great rockers who may have been too fearful to either try something new or felt their time and zenith had long since past.  I give them credit for going into that Baptist church and singing, "That Same Song" or doing "Wipeout" with the Fat Boys.  They remained active participants in popular culture.

Hip people don't need lessons.  They just are.  

[Pretty Funky]

Dave, Bruce and Brian encourage each other during a low point in concert.

Mike: 'Off The Florida Keeeeeeys....'

[SMiLE Brian]

Its just the 1980s songs were such low quality (wipe out, problem child, etc.) that the legacy was harmed with younger people thinking they were lame and the older fans really unhappy with their decline. The BBs were at times too desperate to get on the charts and tried to follow fads they had no clue about to stay "hip".

I'm not sure that the quality was low.  The listener was shifted into a different dynamic.  Someone mentioned Make it Big from Troop Beverly Hills which was very popular.  It wasn't Good Vibrations.  But, that and other songs had the Beach Boys style harmonies, and is almost subliminal in that background of film.  

Those films and TV shows, which might seem trite, were subtitled, dubbed, distributed, syndicated, got and still get global airplay, which keeps them "in the game." They didn't do a disappearing act as many great rockers who may have been too fearful to either try something new or felt their time and zenith had long since past.  I give them credit for going into that Baptist church and singing, "That Same Song" or doing "Wipeout" with the Fat Boys.  They remained active participants in popular culture.

Hip people don't need lessons.  They just are.  

Your a super-fan that likes practically everything they did and I respect that immensely. But if I was growing up in the 1980s, I would have not liked the BBs based off those tracks since the back catalog was hard to get  back then before the CD twofers.

[Shady]

Brian Wilson's greatest achievement was surviving the late  80's and the 90's while Mike tarnished The Beach Boys name.

I would've downed a bottle of nail polish remover somewhere around the Home Improvement appearance 

[oldsurferdude]

Don't completely disagree with some of the points made, but I hold strong to my two basic points.
1. Bruce did not cause the decline alone, but he sure didn't give them a needed edge.
2. As much as those TV shows and eighties hits did to spread the group to a new generation, they were getting poor product not worthy of the Beach Boys in the sixties or early seventies.

Those 1980s "hits" and TV appearances made the band and the public forget what the BBs really meant as a whole.

Amen, brother.

[oldsurferdude]

Brian Wilson's greatest achievement was surviving the late  80's and the 90's while Mike tarnished The Beach Boys name.

I would've downed a bottle of nail polish remover somewhere around the Home Improvement appearance 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Bruce is an enigma. He was supposed to be the straight-laced, normal Beach Boy. One might even use "mature" to describe him. Yet, Bruce has said some of the wackiest things in interviews over the years. Maybe that was intentional, like he was trying to be "out there" or "deeper". Come to think of it, I could be describing Al Jardine, too.

What always perplexed me was that Bruce has stated in a few earlier books/interviews that he wanted to be a songwriter more than anything. Actually, whether you believe it or not, that was his reason for leaving the band in 1972 (that and Jack Reiley). So, he concentrates on songwriting for a few years, releases a solo album (with some re-workng of old songs BTW), has some success shopping his songs ("I Write The Songs"), but then returns to the Beach Boys, who could use some good songs - and he hardly writes anything. I believe you can count on one hand the number of songs Bruce has contributed to the Beach Boys over the last 35 years! And, keeping with Bruce's perplexing behavior, when it comes to contributing a song - one song! - to the NEW 2011 Beach Boys album, he wants to re-record "She Believes In Love Again". This comes from a professional SONGWRITER.

Don't songwriters usually have a catalogue of songs they've written, songs they gave/sold to other artists, songs they've demoed, songs they've recorded for solo projects (released or unreleased). Where are Bruce Johnston's songs? What has he produced over the last 35 years? Shouldn't he have dozens of songs written?

One last thing. L.A. (Light Album), produced mainly by Bruce Johnston. Try to picture that album WITHOUT an 11 minute disco song. Picture a producer who puts his foot down and says, "No, Shortenin' Bread on this album. Give me something better." Picture versions of "Angel Come Home" and "Love Surrounds Me" that rock a little, that have some life to them.

[Mikie]

But if I was growing up in the 1980s, I would have not liked the BBs based off those tracks since the back catalog was hard to get  back then before the CD twofers.

Not true. Only the bonus tracks.

[filledeplage]

Its just the 1980s songs were such low quality (wipe out, problem child, etc.) that the legacy was harmed with younger people thinking they were lame and the older fans really unhappy with their decline. The BBs were at times too desperate to get on the charts and tried to follow fads they had no clue about to stay "hip".

I'm not sure that the quality was low.  The listener was shifted into a different dynamic.  Someone mentioned Make it Big from Troop Beverly Hills which was very popular.  It wasn't Good Vibrations.  But, that and other songs had the Beach Boys style harmonies, and is almost subliminal in that background of film.  

Those films and TV shows, which might seem trite, were subtitled, dubbed, distributed, syndicated, got and still get global airplay, which keeps them "in the game." They didn't do a disappearing act as many great rockers who may have been too fearful to either try something new or felt their time and zenith had long since past.  I give them credit for going into that Baptist church and singing, "That Same Song" or doing "Wipeout" with the Fat Boys.  They remained active participants in popular culture.

Hip people don't need lessons.  They just are.  

Your a super-fan that likes practically everything they did and I respect that immensely. But if I was growing up in the 1980s, I would have not liked the BBs based off those tracks since the back catalog was hard to get  back then before the CD twofers.

Thanks, SMiLE Brian - You were very nice to say that.  What I like to see is people who can or at least try to shift into another context and work on being relevant and staying current with the times. Sometimes things just bomb out, despite your best efforts.  And you just go back to the drawing board with new ideas.  

But, I didn't realize that the back catalog was that hard to get. That is unfortunate.  It seemed that there was a steady stream of cassettes, or whatever was the audio format of the day.  And, they were goofy and cool at the same time in the video with the Fat Boys.  

They seemed to be truly excited with the video playing all the photos and album covers during C50, almost in a "We did ALL that work?" Wow!  But, they did.  

Thanks, again for those kind words.  

[SMiLE Brian]

Great questions Sheriff, you would think Bruce would have built a stockpile of material during all those years of M&B touring.

[Nicko1234]

Brian Wilson's greatest achievement was surviving the late  80's and the 90's while Mike tarnished The Beach Boys name.

I would've downed a bottle of nail polish remover somewhere around the Home Improvement appearance 

I think the fact he survived recording Speed Turtle without wanting to down nail polish remover is a bigger achievement. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Bruce is an enigma. He was supposed to be the straight-laced, normal Beach Boy. One might even use "mature" to describe him. Yet, Bruce has said some of the wackiest things in interviews over the years. Maybe that was intentional, like he was trying to be "out there" or "deeper". Come to think of it, I could be describing Al Jardine, too.

What always perplexed me was that Bruce has stated in a few earlier books/interviews that he wanted to be a songwriter more than anything. Actually, whether you believe it or not, that was his reason for leaving the band in 1972 (that and Jack Reiley). So, he concentrates on songwriting for a few years, releases a solo album (with some re-workng of old songs BTW), has some success shopping his songs ("I Write The Songs"), but then returns to the Beach Boys, who could use some good songs - and he hardly writes anything. I believe you can count on one hand the number of songs Bruce has contributed to the Beach Boys over the last 35 years! And, keeping with Bruce's perplexing behavior, when it comes to contributing a song - one song! - to the NEW 2011 Beach Boys album, he wants to re-record "She Believes In Love Again". This comes from a professional SONGWRITER.

Don't songwriters usually have a catalogue of songs they've written, songs they gave/sold to other artists, songs they've demoed, songs they've recorded for solo projects (released or unreleased). Where are Bruce Johnston's songs? What has he produced over the last 35 years? Shouldn't he have dozens of songs written?

One last thing. L.A. (Light Album), produced mainly by Bruce Johnston. Try to picture that album WITHOUT an 11 minute disco song. Picture a producer who puts his foot down and says, "No, Shortenin' Bread on this album. Give me something better." Picture versions of "Angel Come Home" and "Love Surrounds Me" that rock a little, that have some life to them.

This imaginary producer would have had to go work with some other band. This is The Beach Boys circa 1979 we're talking about.

[Jim V.]

I think a lot of people's problem with Bruce is that he tries to present himself and The Beach Boys as the "Fun, Fun, Fun" guys, despite the fact that he wasn't even in the band 'til they started getting artsier. He just kinda seems to perfectly fit in to the dorky, straight-laced, boring image that some people wrongly have of The Beach Boys.

And his point of always saying things like "Brian Wilson's music and Mike Love's lyrics" strikes me as him trying to be a good company man and make sure to big-up his employer, Mr. Mike Love. I mean don't get me wrong, Mike has done some great singing and wrote some great lyrics, but he wasn't Brian's equal, and he didn't write a whole bunch of the lyrics for many classics and hits.

Bruce has been a right-wing Republican at least since the 80s, probably earlier. He hasn't been any more public about his beliefs recently than he ever was -- he just had the misfortune last year to have two private conversations recorded, which is more down to a combination of the way recording technology has become ubiquitous and the heightened public profile of the band last year than to any change in his opinions.

If Bruce was getting up on stage and telling the crowds to vote Republican, I could more than understand people's criticisms of him and would be joining in. But we *all* have opinions which, if they were made public when we were speaking off-guard, would sound stupid or wrong to a lot of people.

I am pretty sure that Mike and Bruce did push for Dubya to get elected in 2000 with statements in concert. And who can forget "I'm pickin' up Bush vibrations" when they campaigned for his daddy.

[Mikie]

Don't forget - Mike & Bruce campaigned for Ronnie Raygun too.  They're good for one another politically.

[SMiLE Brian]

But if I was growing up in the 1980s, I would have not liked the BBs based off those tracks since the back catalog was hard to get  back then before the CD twofers.

Not true. Only the bonus tracks.

Even today it can be difficult to buy the back catalog in stores. Most places only carry the hit collections where I live. I had to buy most of my twofers used or from amazon.

[KittyKat]

Bruce not only doesn't write songs in spite of being a songwriter, he doesn't always play keyboards in spite of being stationed behind them onstage. People criticize Brian Wilson for doing that, but it seems to work for Bruce. Not to mention he doesn't always sing, either. He does clap and encourage the crowd, similar to a crowd fluffer on the average game show.  Mike could save money by getting rid of him, because he has to hire additional keyboard players and backing vocalists just to cover what Bruce doesn't do. However, he is an "original" Beach Boy, so he stays.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Bruce is an enigma. He was supposed to be the straight-laced, normal Beach Boy. One might even use "mature" to describe him. Yet, Bruce has said some of the wackiest things in interviews over the years. Maybe that was intentional, like he was trying to be "out there" or "deeper". Come to think of it, I could be describing Al Jardine, too.

What always perplexed me was that Bruce has stated in a few earlier books/interviews that he wanted to be a songwriter more than anything. Actually, whether you believe it or not, that was his reason for leaving the band in 1972 (that and Jack Reiley). So, he concentrates on songwriting for a few years, releases a solo album (with some re-workng of old songs BTW), has some success shopping his songs ("I Write The Songs"), but then returns to the Beach Boys, who could use some good songs - and he hardly writes anything. I believe you can count on one hand the number of songs Bruce has contributed to the Beach Boys over the last 35 years! And, keeping with Bruce's perplexing behavior, when it comes to contributing a song - one song! - to the NEW 2011 Beach Boys album, he wants to re-record "She Believes In Love Again". This comes from a professional SONGWRITER.

Don't songwriters usually have a catalogue of songs they've written, songs they gave/sold to other artists, songs they've demoed, songs they've recorded for solo projects (released or unreleased). Where are Bruce Johnston's songs? What has he produced over the last 35 years? Shouldn't he have dozens of songs written?

One last thing. L.A. (Light Album), produced mainly by Bruce Johnston. Try to picture that album WITHOUT an 11 minute disco song. Picture a producer who puts his foot down and says, "No, Shortenin' Bread on this album. Give me something better." Picture versions of "Angel Come Home" and "Love Surrounds Me" that rock a little, that have some life to them.

This imaginary producer would have had to go work with some other band. This is The Beach Boys circa 1979 we're talking about.

Well, sure, they were a mess. Can you imagine working with those guys in 1978? It must've been a nightmare. But.....I think they were WILLING to be led. Carl backed away from producing, Brian literally gave up, Dennis couldn't even record his own album, Al had his big shot with MIU, and Mike can't produce.

The story goes that Brian called Bruce and asked him to produce the album. Boy howdy, that's a good reason to let Bruce produce....It never should've happened. I never read a lot about it, and I think about it often, but I wonder why James Guercio didn't take more control. Do you realize how successful he was with Chicago. When you listen to Chicago's stuff circa 1975-176, a lot of it sounds like the Beach Boys. Even the voices : Cetera = Carl,  Kath = Dennis/Brian,  Lamm=Al/some Carl. Chicago had that big hit with "Wishing You Were Here"; I love that song, love that sound. Why couldn't Guercio do THAT with the Beach Boys. Somebody on the board awhile back compared L.A. (Light Album) to Fleetwood Mac's Rumours. I don't quite hear that, I hear L.A. trying - trying - to channel Chicago. It didn't make it, though...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, but look at what Bruce managed to turn out: a Beach Boys album full of a whole lot of Dennis and Carl!

[Sheriff John Stone]

Yeah, but look at what Bruce managed to turn out: a Beach Boys album full of a whole lot of Dennis and Carl!

Hey, since you mentioned that, I have a question. Dennis's songs on Pacific Ocean Blue were so great, easily the best BB solo album. But, "Angel Come Home" (I know Carl wrote it) and "Love Surrounds Me" are boring. Why couldn't they sound like POB. Seriously, I ask because I'm not sure. Who produced them? Was it Bruce alone? And, did Dennis and/or Carl contribute anything to producing their songs on L.A. (Light Album)?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, but look at what Bruce managed to turn out: a Beach Boys album full of a whole lot of Dennis and Carl!

Hey, since you mentioned that, I have a question. Dennis's songs on Pacific Ocean Blue were so great, easily the best BB solo album. But, "Angel Come Home" (I know Carl wrote it) and "Love Surrounds Me" are boring. Why couldn't they sound like POB. Seriously, I ask because I'm not sure. Who produced them? Was it Bruce alone? And, did Dennis and/or Carl contribute anything to producing their songs on L.A. (Light Album)?

With Love Surrounds me: it appears Bruce just took what Dennis had recorded and Beach Boy-ized it by layering his and Carl's vocals. Otherwise it's the same track only maybe sweetened a little..... I happen to find it a great song no matter what version..... Angel Come Home as well. Both are stellar 1979 Yacht-Rock if you ask me.

[Mikie]

But if I was growing up in the 1980s, I would have not liked the BBs based off those tracks since the back catalog was hard to get  back then before the CD twofers.

Not true. Only the bonus tracks.

Even today it can be difficult to buy the back catalog in stores. Most places only carry the hit collections where I live. I had to buy most of my twofers used or from amazon.

Depends on where you live, I guess. Maybe being in California has something to do with it? I dunno.

Amazon is by far the easiest way, along with CDNow and other Internet sources. Back in the 80's and up until the 2000's Tower had the best selection, followed by The Warehouse. Borders had a good stock in my area and Breast Buy wasn't/isn't too bad. I saw all of the recent 2012 Remasters in my local Best Buy so cudos to them. And now we have to rely on Amoeba and Barnes & Noble. Amoeba has always done a pretty good job of maintaining Beach Boys stock and promoted the 2011 Smile release VERY well. Other than a couple of other brick & mortar shops in my area that maintain a pretty good stock (Streetlight, Rasputin's) Amazon has pretty much knocked all the book stores off the map that carried CD's, which is why Amazon is now one of the best go-to sources for Beach Boys product.

P.S. Back in the 90's, I picked up the '93 GV box, Pet Sounds box, and ALL of the two-fers at my local brick & mortar store as I wanted to give the small guy business. There were quite a few re-issues on vinyl if you were into that.

[SMiLE Brian]

But if I was growing up in the 1980s, I would have not liked the BBs based off those tracks since the back catalog was hard to get  back then before the CD twofers.

Not true. Only the bonus tracks.

Even today it can be difficult to buy the back catalog in stores. Most places only carry the hit collections where I live. I had to buy most of my twofers used or from amazon.

Depends on where you live, I guess. Maybe being in California has something to do with it? I dunno.

Amazon is by far the easiest way, along with CDNow and other Internet sources. Back in the 80's and up until the 2000's Tower had the best selection, followed by The Warehouse. Borders had a good stock in my area and Breast Buy wasn't/isn't too bad. I saw all of the recent 2012 Remasters in my local Best Buy so cudos to them. And now we have to rely on Amoeba and Barnes & Noble. Amoeba has always done a pretty good job of maintaining Beach Boys stock and promoted the 2011 Smile release VERY well. Other than a couple of other brick & mortar shops in my area that maintain a pretty good stock (Streetlight, Rasputin's) Amazon has pretty much knocked all the book stores off the map that carried CD's, which is why Amazon is now one of the best go-to sources for Beach Boys product.

P.S. Back in the 90's, I picked up the '93 GV box, Pet Sounds box, and ALL of the two-fers at my local brick & mortar store as I wanted to give the small guy business. There were quite a few re-issues on vinyl if you were into that.

Your on the record mecca of the west coast, most places aren't as lucky with such a deep selection.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Yeah, but look at what Bruce managed to turn out: a Beach Boys album full of a whole lot of Dennis and Carl!

Hey, since you mentioned that, I have a question. Dennis's songs on Pacific Ocean Blue were so great, easily the best BB solo album. But, "Angel Come Home" (I know Carl wrote it) and "Love Surrounds Me" are boring. Why couldn't they sound like POB. Seriously, I ask because I'm not sure. Who produced them? Was it Bruce alone? And, did Dennis and/or Carl contribute anything to producing their songs on L.A. (Light Album)?

With Love Surrounds me: it appears Bruce just took what Dennis had recorded and Beach Boy-ized it by layering his and Carl's vocals. Otherwise it's the same track only maybe sweetened a little..... I happen to find it a great song no matter what version..... Angel Come Home as well. Both are stellar 1979 Yacht-Rock if you ask me.

Sorry, I can't hear you over my turquoise and yellow windbreaker.

[SMiLE Brian]

Yeah, but look at what Bruce managed to turn out: a Beach Boys album full of a whole lot of Dennis and Carl!

Hey, since you mentioned that, I have a question. Dennis's songs on Pacific Ocean Blue were so great, easily the best BB solo album. But, "Angel Come Home" (I know Carl wrote it) and "Love Surrounds Me" are boring. Why couldn't they sound like POB. Seriously, I ask because I'm not sure. Who produced them? Was it Bruce alone? And, did Dennis and/or Carl contribute anything to producing their songs on L.A. (Light Album)?

With Love Surrounds me: it appears Bruce just took what Dennis had recorded and Beach Boy-ized it by layering his and Carl's vocals. Otherwise it's the same track only maybe sweetened a little..... I happen to find it a great song no matter what version..... Angel Come Home as well. Both are stellar 1979 Yacht-Rock if you ask me.

Sorry, I can't hear you over my turquoise and yellow windbreaker.

Me neither, was listening to this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9J5o1iVfAw

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Bruce is certainly one of only two Beach Boys who've played SeaWorld