Track Talk #10: Thinkin' About You Baby/Darlin'

[buddhahat]

I've been listening to the Sharon Marie version a lot recently and have been struck by just how great this song is. Obviously Darlin' is great, but hearing it within one of Brian's slightly earlier productions and with Marie's great voice makes me wonder why the Beach Boys didn't record this themselves in 64? There is something very powerful and dynamic about Brian's earlier production, kicking off with the little bell, the swell of vocals building up at the start, then propelled by that rattle thing. It feels like Brian is really into this song so it surprises me that it was not saved for the boys to work on at this point.

Wikipedia lists the single release as April 64, but AGD's site has the composition & recording date as June 64. I'm presuming the latter is the correct date, in which case, when was the single released? Can't find that info on the Bellagio timeline. The reason I ask is I'm trying to work out which BB album the song in question might have appeared on had they chosen to record it themselves. Today presumably. I'd happily swap out Help Me Rhonda or Bull Session for a BB version of Thinkin' About You Baby!

Brian clearly loved the song, re-recording it for Redwood, then Wild Honey, and again for American Spring.

Personally I think it's one of his best. The melody feels very natural and effortless in a way that not all his compositions do.

Edit: It also reminds me of Don't Worry Baby but I couldn't think why. Then I hummed the melody and realised that the "But she looks in my eyes" line follows almost exactly the same melody as "I lie awake in bed" except the former goes down on the last two notes instead of going up!

[I. Spaceman]

It is a great, great song and a great record. I think with this one, Brian was getting ready for the Side 2 of Today sound and feel, and was testing out the methods on the track. My personal favorite version is the track-with-backing-vocals-only version from Unsurpassed Masters. It really makes it in that form, for me. But I love the lead vocal version as well. And Spring's version.

[buddhahat]

It is a great, great song and a great record. I think with this one, Brian was getting ready for the Side 2 of Today sound and feel, and was testing out the methods on the track. My personal favorite version is the track-with-backing-vocals-only version from Unsurpassed Masters. It really makes it in that form, for me. But I love the lead vocal version as well. And Spring's version.

I'm not sure I'm familiar with that backing track. Are we talking backing track of TAMB or Darlin i.e. which Unsurpassed Masters is it on because I have both the Today and Wild Honey ones kicking about I think (hope!).

[Andrew G. Doe]

Wikipedia lists the single release as April 64, but AGD's site has the composition & recording date as June 64. I'm presuming the latter is the correct date, in which case, when was the single released? Can't find that info on the Bellagio timeline.

I think you might be looking at the old, btinternet-hosted version. Single was released in June 1964 and the track was cut at Western on December 13th 1963. I agree that the listing in the timeline is open to misinterpretation. Will amend.

[I. Spaceman]

It is a great, great song and a great record. I think with this one, Brian was getting ready for the Side 2 of Today sound and feel, and was testing out the methods on the track. My personal favorite version is the track-with-backing-vocals-only version from Unsurpassed Masters. It really makes it in that form, for me. But I love the lead vocal version as well. And Spring's version.

I'm not sure I'm familiar with that backing track. Are we talking backing track of TAMB or Darlin i.e. which Unsurpassed Masters is it on because I have both the Today and Wild Honey ones kicking about I think (hope!).

Thinkin'. It is just Brian and The Honeys' backing atop the glorious track.

[SMiLE Brian]

The spring version is great, if only I could find a decent copy on vinyl of the album.

[I. Spaceman]

The spring version is great, if only I could find a decent copy on vinyl of the album.

Hard to find! I lucked into one on Ebay in a box of common BB vinyl.

[Please delete my account]

What I find amazing and wonderful is that the same basic tune can evoke yearning sadness (TAMB) and joy (Darlin') equally well.

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, I give up - what's "TAMB" ?

[buddhahat]

Wikipedia lists the single release as April 64, but AGD's site has the composition & recording date as June 64. I'm presuming the latter is the correct date, in which case, when was the single released? Can't find that info on the Bellagio timeline.

I think you might be looking at the old, btinternet-hosted version. Single was released in June 1964 and the track was cut at Western on December 13th 1963. I agree that the listing in the timeline is open to misinterpretation. Will amend.

Thanks AGD. So by that reckoning if Brian had made the decision to record TAYB as a Beach Boys album track it would more likely have ended up on Shut Down Vol 2, which raises the question even more in my mind: Why give this track to Sharon Marie when it was arguably stronger than half the upcoming album?

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, worked out that "TAMB" means some folk lack basic reading skills.

People, the song is called "Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby", not "Thinking About My Baby" or any other variation. 

[Please delete my account]

Aye, sorry, t'was a typo. I know what the song's called.

[I. Spaceman]

Wikipedia lists the single release as April 64, but AGD's site has the composition & recording date as June 64. I'm presuming the latter is the correct date, in which case, when was the single released? Can't find that info on the Bellagio timeline.

I think you might be looking at the old, btinternet-hosted version. Single was released in June 1964 and the track was cut at Western on December 13th 1963. I agree that the listing in the timeline is open to misinterpretation. Will amend.

Thanks AGD. So by that reckoning if Brian had made the decision to record TAYB as a Beach Boys album track it would more likely have ended up on Shut Down Vol 2, which raises the question even more in my mind: Why give this track to Sharon Marie when it was arguably stronger than half the upcoming album?

In my opinion, it is because The Beach Boys were still into a more basic, masculine sound, until later in the year.

[buddhahat]

Wikipedia lists the single release as April 64, but AGD's site has the composition & recording date as June 64. I'm presuming the latter is the correct date, in which case, when was the single released? Can't find that info on the Bellagio timeline.

I think you might be looking at the old, btinternet-hosted version. Single was released in June 1964 and the track was cut at Western on December 13th 1963. I agree that the listing in the timeline is open to misinterpretation. Will amend.

Thanks AGD. So by that reckoning if Brian had made the decision to record TAYB as a Beach Boys album track it would more likely have ended up on Shut Down Vol 2, which raises the question even more in my mind: Why give this track to Sharon Marie when it was arguably stronger than half the upcoming album?

In my opinion, it is because The Beach Boys were still into a more basic, masculine sound, until later in the year.

Yes maybe, although there are more sensitive tracks on the album such as Don't Worry Baby and Warmth Of The Sun. I think TAYB could have fit very well on the album. God, imagine a Dennis lead on that track - how soulful it could've been! But I'm getting carried away ... Maybe the problem is that I'm thinking more of albums whereas Brian at the time was more concerned with hit singles.

Interesting that he didn't record it with the boys though. Perhaps Brian wanted some autonomy from the band at this point? Well clearly, I guess, as all those 'pet projects' would suggest. It's interesting that he gives the track to another artist in 63, then does exactly the same thing 4 years later. What is it about this song that he wants to produce it with other artists?

[I. Spaceman]

Wikipedia lists the single release as April 64, but AGD's site has the composition & recording date as June 64. I'm presuming the latter is the correct date, in which case, when was the single released? Can't find that info on the Bellagio timeline.

I think you might be looking at the old, btinternet-hosted version. Single was released in June 1964 and the track was cut at Western on December 13th 1963. I agree that the listing in the timeline is open to misinterpretation. Will amend.

Thanks AGD. So by that reckoning if Brian had made the decision to record TAYB as a Beach Boys album track it would more likely have ended up on Shut Down Vol 2, which raises the question even more in my mind: Why give this track to Sharon Marie when it was arguably stronger than half the upcoming album?

In my opinion, it is because The Beach Boys were still into a more basic, masculine sound, until later in the year.

Yes maybe, although there are more sensitive tracks on the album such as Don't Worry Baby and Warmth Of The Sun. I think TAYB could have fit very well on the album. God, imagine a Dennis lead on that track - how soulful it could've been! But I'm getting carried away ... Maybe the problem is that I'm thinking more of albums whereas Brian at the time was more concerned with hit singles.

Interesting that he didn't record it with the boys though. Perhaps Brian wanted some autonomy from the band at this point? Well clearly, I guess, as all those 'pet projects' would suggest. It's interesting that he gives the track to another artist in 63, then does exactly the same thing 4 years later. What is it about this song that he wants to produce it with other artists?

Well, I have said it before on this topic, and many others, I'll just say it once more and out: there is a particular feel to Thinkin' that is very feminine, and has a lot in common with the Honeys records and others he recorded involving female voices. There is a feel to the melody that lends itself to being recorded with studio musicians. The tracks he recorded for songs such as The One You Can't Have, He's A Doll, Thinkin', Guess I'm Dumb, are far more advanced productions than anything he was doing with the band at the time. One doesn't have to think too hard to recognize that he saw the Beach Boys sound as something a bit less florid, and more basic and rock and roll. Songs such as Don't Worry Baby may have a similar melodic sound, but not to the degree of a song such as Thinkin'. And the instrumental thing on DWB is far more pounding, primitive and relatively unsophisticated 9tho the composition itself is not). At that time, Brian was trying hard to establish himself as a producer/arranger aside from The Beach Boys, and felt freer to experiment with his developing style on side efforts. By the end of the year, he lost his hangups with keeping the band a more masculine trip overall, and started cutting things like Kiss Me Baby for them. Personally, I think Brian made the perfect choice, I'm glad he cut Thinkin' with Sharon, it is no less of a record for that (and Brian would have likely given it a heavier feel if he did, which wouldn't have been appropriate), and reworked it later for a male perspective into a complementary, equally excellent song. Also, I tend to like the sound of female voices at least as much as guys singing like girls, unlike many modern male pop fans. So Thinkin' is one of my favorite records as is.

[the captain]

Also, I tend to like the sound of female voices at least as much as guys singing like girls, unlike many modern male pop fans.

You rang?

[I. Spaceman]

Also, I tend to like the sound of female voices at least as much as guys singing like girls, unlike many modern male pop fans.

You rang?

Ha!!

[the captain]

Also, I tend to like the sound of female voices at least as much as guys singing like girls, unlike many modern male pop fans.

You rang?

Ha!!

Mostly kidding of course, just ready to be the butt of a joke when a joke presents itself. But really I'm (finally) finding myself loving female voices in these past five years or so. But before that, I really didn't.

[buddhahat]

Wikipedia lists the single release as April 64, but AGD's site has the composition & recording date as June 64. I'm presuming the latter is the correct date, in which case, when was the single released? Can't find that info on the Bellagio timeline.

I think you might be looking at the old, btinternet-hosted version. Single was released in June 1964 and the track was cut at Western on December 13th 1963. I agree that the listing in the timeline is open to misinterpretation. Will amend.

Thanks AGD. So by that reckoning if Brian had made the decision to record TAYB as a Beach Boys album track it would more likely have ended up on Shut Down Vol 2, which raises the question even more in my mind: Why give this track to Sharon Marie when it was arguably stronger than half the upcoming album?

In my opinion, it is because The Beach Boys were still into a more basic, masculine sound, until later in the year.

Yes maybe, although there are more sensitive tracks on the album such as Don't Worry Baby and Warmth Of The Sun. I think TAYB could have fit very well on the album. God, imagine a Dennis lead on that track - how soulful it could've been! But I'm getting carried away ... Maybe the problem is that I'm thinking more of albums whereas Brian at the time was more concerned with hit singles.

Interesting that he didn't record it with the boys though. Perhaps Brian wanted some autonomy from the band at this point? Well clearly, I guess, as all those 'pet projects' would suggest. It's interesting that he gives the track to another artist in 63, then does exactly the same thing 4 years later. What is it about this song that he wants to produce it with other artists?

Well, I have said it before on this topic, and many others, I'll just say it once more and out: there is a particular feel to Thinkin' that is very feminine, and has a lot in common with the Honeys records and others he recorded involving female voices. There is a feel to the melody that lends itself to being recorded with studio musicians. The tracks he recorded for songs such as The One You Can't Have, He's A Doll, Thinkin', Guess I'm Dumb, are far more advanced productions than anything he was doing with the band at the time. One doesn't have to think too hard to recognize that he saw the Beach Boys sound as something a bit less florid, and more basic and rock and roll. Songs such as Don't Worry Baby may have a similar melodic sound, but not to the degree of a song such as Thinkin'. And the instrumental thing on DWB is far more pounding, primitive and relatively unsophisticated 9tho the composition itself is not). At that time, Brian was trying hard to establish himself as a producer/arranger aside from The Beach Boys, and felt freer to experiment with his developing style on side efforts. By the end of the year, he lost his hangups with keeping the band a more masculine trip overall, and started cutting things like Kiss Me Baby for them. Personally, I think Brian made the perfect choice, I'm glad he cut Thinkin' with Sharon, it is no less of a record for that (and Brian would have likely given it a heavier feel if he did, which wouldn't have been appropriate), and reworked it later for a male perspective into a complementary, equally excellent song. Also, I tend to like the sound of female voices at least as much as guys singing like girls, unlike many modern male pop fans. So Thinkin' is one of my favorite records as is.

Interesting take that Brian was kind of compartmentalizing his masculine and feminine sides and allocating songs accordingly in the earlier years (if that's what your saying). The sensitive, or more feminine, side is exposed though in songs such as Lonely Sea, In My Room etc. and personally I don't find anything more or less feminine about TAYB, than with those other songs, besides the female vocals of course.

Whether Brian adopts different production styles for his BB work vs. side projects is something I've never considered, although Guess I'm Dumb always sounded very un Beach Boys to me. But as I understand it, it was tracked as a BB record, then given to Glen later? Will have to have another listen and compare band stuff to the side projects.

[I. Spaceman]

Well, one easy way to separate most of the early Brian productions from the Beach Boys output is reliance on The Wrecking Crew. Lonely Sea and In My Room have more of a connection with the doo-wop male vocal group thing (Moonglows, etc.), such as Earth Angel, in terms of feel and rhythm, tho of course Brian puts in his sophisticated chord progression divergences, and the Freshmen-influenced vocal arrangements. Still, those early BB ballads are only one or two degrees separation from the classic 50's ballads Brian grew up with. Thinkin' goes way past that, to a style clearly inspired by early 60's Brill Building classics penned by Carole King.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I also think, and it may be oversimplification, that Brian viewed his Beach Boys' productions vs. outside the group productions differently based on the number of vocals (layers), both lead vocals and harmonies.

When Brian produced a Beach Boys' song, he had to leave room for not only one lead vocal (usually Mike), but a second one (sometimes himself). On top of that, Brian was going to saturate the track with full, three and/or four part harmonies. How many times did you hear an isolated backing track, only to be surprised at some instrument or arrangement that got buried in the mix, usually by the vocals.

With Brian's outside productions, he was many times producing just a single vocalist with limited harmonies, at least reduced harmonies from Beach Boys' productions. Maybe Brian felt the need to fill in the gaps with more detailed or complex arrangements instrumentally to satisfy the track - and himself. Actually, Brian might've gotten more of a kick out of producing those "outside" tracks, being a little more adventurous.

[I. Spaceman]

Actually, Brian might've gotten more of a kick out of producing those "outside" tracks, being a little more adventurous.

Easily. He was able to color outside the lines, without having to please the rest of the band and, around that point, Murry Wilson, who hated Brian doing outside work of any type.

[Andrew G. Doe]

My theory, and I think I'm spot on, is that Brian used his non-BB work in the early 60s to get used to using the Crew as opposed to the band. Thinking long-term.

[bgas]

My theory, and I think I'm spot on, is that Brian used his non-BB work in the early 60s to get used to using the Crew as opposed to the band. Thinking long-term.

Be kind of silly to have a theory and not think so, wouldn't it?

[Myk Luhv]

Here's what the song might sound like if it were sung by Mike Love if he were Scottish and fancied a 1990s lo-fi aesthetic: "Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby". Bonus: a 2011 live version by the sane group, with a female lead on "TBYB", that interpolates "Darlin'"! There ya go, folks.