Was "When I Grow Up (to Be a Man)" the first rock song to use a harpsichord?

[SMiLE-addict]

I was listening to "Today" several days ago when I began wondering about the harpsichord in "When I Grow Up (to Be a Man)."

The other early rock song I could think of off the top of my head that used a harpsichord was Simon and Garfunkel's "Leaves That Are Green." However, when I just looked at the recording dates for the two songs on Wiki, "When I Grow Up" was recorded and released a full year before "Leaves That Are Green." A search for the topic on google wasn't very helpful, as most people discussing the topic didn't even seem to be aware that those two songs used a harpsichord.

She's Not There by The Zombies is often credited as the first "Baroque Rock" song and was recorded a month before WIGU(TBAM), but it doesn't have a harpsichord (not that I'm suggesting WIGU(TBAM) is a "Baroque Rock" song, but if you're looking for a harpsichord in rock music, that's the first place one would look).

Anyone know of any - perhaps obscure - rock songs from the early 60's or even the 50's that used a harpsichord?

[SMiLE-addict]

(not that I'm suggesting WIGU(TBAM) is a "Baroque Rock" song, but if you're looking for a harpsichord in rock music, that's the first place one would look)

Y'know what? Now that I listen to it again, I almost think it *could* be classified as a Baroque Rock song - maybe not quite, but almost there. The opening isn't all that different from parts of "Walk Away Renee," for example, which easily is classified as a Baroque Rock song. If the BB song was a bit slower, it just might fit.

[I. Spaceman]

I'm sure there were a few before When I Grow Up, considering how lush certain rock performers in the 50's got when they hit major labels. I can't think of one particular example, tho. I have always thought Brian got turned on to harpsichord because it was used prominently in Rosemary Clooney records of the 50's, and we all know what a big fan he is of her stuff.

[rn57]

Jan Berry was definitely using a harpsichord in the studio before WIGUTBAM was recorded. But I'm not sure what's the first Jan & Dean record to have one. No doubt one of the board's several J&D experts will say.

[SMiLE-addict]

^
Thanks. According to this, the song, "The Anaheim, Azusa, & Cucamonga Sewing Circle, Book Review And Timing Association," featured a harpsichord. But listening to it here, it's a bit hard to hear (busy arrangement). The link says the harpsichord was added to the song on August 11, 1964. According to the Wiki article on WIGU, that was recorded on August 5th and 10th, 1964. So unless there's an earlier Jan & Dean song with a harpsichord, Brian beat them by one day!

[rn57]

^
Thanks. According to this, the song, "The Anaheim, Azusa, & Cucamonga Sewing Circle, Book Review And Timing Association," featured a harpsichord. But listening to it here, it's a bit hard to hear (busy arrangement). The link says the harpsichord was added to the song on August 11, 1964. According to the Wiki article on WIGU, that was recorded on August 5th and 10th, 1964. So unless there's an earlier Jan & Dean song with a harpsichord, Brian beat them by one day!

Of course AA&C came to mind right away - but I thought Jan had used a harpsichord before that.  But if Brian really did beat J&D to it by 24 hours, that sure illustrates how J&D could sometimes be the Avis to the BBs' Hertz.  (Those of you under the age of 40 reading this may need to check Wikipedia about that reference.)

[SMiLE-addict]

They also beat the Yardbirds For Your Love by 4 months.

[rogerlancelot]

There is the song "I Sure Would Be Happy" by Cole Minor which features harpsichord. That was either recorded on August 28th, 1963 or I just completely made it up off the top of my head for no reason whatsoever.

[SMiLE-addict]

^
Either that's so obscure it doesn't show up on google, or you *did* make it up off the top of your head!

[rogerlancelot]

Sorry about that. It is hard to believe that WIGU is the first rock song to use harpsichord. Amazing!

[SMiLE-addict]

Now that I re-read the Wiki article, it looks like Brian beat J&D by six days, not just one, since the instrumental track was recorded on the 5th:

The song was recorded over two sessions in 1964 at Western Recorders. The instrumental track was most likely recorded on August 5 with the vocals being overdubbed five days later on August 10. The instrumental track was arranged by Brian Wilson.

[guitarfool2002]

Calcutta wins the prize.

If we don't let strict definitions of "rock" versus "pop" in early 60's standards get in the way...Lawrence Welk had a #1 smash hit in 1961 with "Calcutta", featuring a harpsichord lead and baritone/tic-tac bass.

I'll always wear my love for the sound of that record on my sleeve...it's a terrific instrumental, the most popular thing Lawrence Welk ever recorded, and while it's not a "rock" song as we define rock, neither is When I Grow Up or the Jan And Dean cut...seriously, let's call it what it is - When I Grow Up would be better defined and gauged for success as a pop song on the pop charts...

...and since "Calcutta" was #1 on the Hot 100 charts and crossed over into top 40 and was also a jukebox hit, I'd say Calcutta gets the influence nod on this one, beyond getting the crown as if not strictly the first to use harpsichord, it was *easily* the most influential contemporary use of a harpsichord among Brian's age group as it was on the radio and jukeboxes all the time.

If you haven't heard Calcutta, be prepared to have a smile appear on your face somewhere around :30 on this clip of it...when the la-la vocals start doubling the harpsichord...then :53 when accordion steps in...changes stops...handclaps, six-string bass...dead string guitar...

Oh, Brian's little production tricks are all over this record a few years before Brian dreamed them up. 

Seriously, it's a fun record, this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrru5Q7aUcg

[I. Spaceman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriXncI96lw

[guitarfool2002]

If we're talking about a record which was a #1 pop hit in 1961 versus a Rosemary Clooney record from 1951, which would have been more in the public's ear in 1964?

Which was in Brian's ear? No one will know, it's all opinion...I'd go both as well as a combination of all his influences, since he was like a musical sponge and soaked it all in.

But the Welk song was by far more popular, more known to Brian's own age group as a contemporary hit record still on jukeboxes in '64, and more in the subconscious of listeners who might hear a harpsichord on a pop record in 1964 and immediately think of Calcutta.

Just my opinion.

[guitarfool2002]

Everyone should listen to both back-to-back, there are elements of Brian in both of them. I personally think I hear more of Brian's later musical trademarks in Calcutta.

The Clooney record is a piano player banging out barrelhouse/ragtime/boogie piano on a harpsichord. The Welk record also has about 4 or 5 sonic traits that would be all over Brian's own productions in 64-67, and the major 7th chords are all over Calcutta - another Brian "sound" heard in his writing.

Ironically, the harpsichord from Come On-a My House would not have sounded out of place if Jo Ann Castle had played it on Welk's show, on her tack piano.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1EbR-UQgNE

[Shane]

Guitarfool- yeah, I totally hear what you're saying about Brian's production touches possibly borrowing from this Lawrence Welk record.  There have been many times when I've sat down to "write" a song, and I end up borrowing an element from one record, and another element from a completely different record,  and a third element from yet another unrelated record.  Put them all together in a way that's never been done before and, bang, here's a completely new song.

And as an aside... I would like to point out the very first chord of "When I Grow Up".  It lasts all of a second and a half, and that chord is absolutely nuts.  Pure genius.  I seem to remember some sort of live TV appearance by the Beach Boys where they were having trouble starting the song... pulling all of those discordant notes out of thin air.  I don't blame them one bit.

[Theydon Bois]

I've always loved this song from 1959:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkXvYEeiGoA

Not only is there prominent harpsichord throughout, but at 0:51 there's an absolutely ridiculous harpsichord solo that you should all listen to and enjoy right now.

[guitarfool2002]

I've always loved this song from 1959:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkXvYEeiGoA

Not only is there prominent harpsichord throughout, but at 0:51 there's an absolutely ridiculous harpsichord solo that you should all listen to and enjoy right now.

I may be wrong but I believe this is the first time Nervous Norvus has been referenced on this board...

[guitarfool2002]

Guitarfool- yeah, I totally hear what you're saying about Brian's production touches possibly borrowing from this Lawrence Welk record.  There have been many times when I've sat down to "write" a song, and I end up borrowing an element from one record, and another element from a completely different record,  and a third element from yet another unrelated record.  Put them all together in a way that's never been done before and, bang, here's a completely new song.

And as an aside... I would like to point out the very first chord of "When I Grow Up".  It lasts all of a second and a half, and that chord is absolutely nuts.  Pure genius.  I seem to remember some sort of live TV appearance by the Beach Boys where they were having trouble starting the song... pulling all of those discordant notes out of thin air.  I don't blame them one bit.

Some of the sonic touches and production elements are so close, it's definitely a strong possibility that Brian had at least some traces of the record Calcutta running through his mind as an influence. Of course, unless the musician/songwriter specifically names a certain record as an influence, we're left to guess based on what we hear.

And I do hear a few specific elements which people here would associate with Brian's music from 64-67 on that one Welk record. I wonder if Brian has ever been asked about it? I think it might be more than a coincidence to hear certain instruments playing in a way a lot of folks would associate with Brian Wilson's productions, and to find them all on a #1 single from 1961. The circumstantial evidence weighs heavily on this, short of Brian saying "Yeah, I loved Calcutta! That was a big influence".

Factor in another element: remember Murry Wilson's big (only) break as a songwriter was when Lawrence Welk played his song on the Welk radio show? I think we can assume the Wilson family watched the Welk show pretty regularly if not every week, with the kids gathered around the TV as well as when Welk was on the radio. The Wilson family had a direct connection to the show as Welk had given Murry what the family had hoped was his big break as a songwriter...soon to be eclipsed by his son. 

I'm sure the family were loyal viewers and listeners of The Lawrence Welk show, as were millions of others in the 50's and 60's.

The "When I Grow Up" false-start performance was on Ready Steady Go, totally live and an awesome performance!

[I. Spaceman]

.

[SMiLE-addict]

Hmm, I wouldn't classify Rosemary Clooney or Lawrence Welk as rock, obviously. Was interested in *just* a rock song (or at least a rock group, addressing guitarfool's observation above). If we can't think of any other prior rock song/group with a harpsichord, I'm thinking we should change the WIGU Wiki to mention that it was the first. I think that would be worth mentioning!

One other piece I discovered last night with a harpsichord was this one by Artie Shaw. Anyone know if Brian was an Artie Shaw fan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOb8i0BD_ho

[SMiLE-addict]

One other thing I decided to check out (not that it's a rock song either, but anyway) ... the TV series The Addams Family features a harpsichord both in the theme song *and* Lurch liked to play the instrument. So I was wondering if maybe Brian was watching TV one day and got the idea from there ... *but* ... the first episode of The Addams Family did not air until September 18, 1964 - more than a month after the BB recorded the instruments to WIGU.

[guitarfool2002]

Hmm, I wouldn't classify Rosemary Clooney or Lawrence Welk as rock, obviously. Was interested in *just* a rock song (or at least a rock group, addressing guitarfool's observation above). If we can't think of any other prior rock song/group with a harpsichord, I'm thinking we should change the WIGU Wiki to mention that it was the first. I think that would be worth mentioning!

But I do have to quibble with the labeling of "rock" with this, because the Welk song was #1 on the same charts as Beach Boys songs would soon be appearing, and the record was played on the same top 40 radio stations as the Beach Boys would be played. Welk had what some would call a 'crossover" hit with Calcutta, meaning his audience was easy listening or adult while the record itself became a hit there and with the younger top 40 pop demographic.

Labels were less defined, especially with top 40 and especially up until at least 1967 going into 1969. You'd see all kinds of styles appearing on the same charts, it becomes a blur of labels at some point to classify them.

And all of that doesn't even mention the point which I made earlier, which I think is a valid one: When I Grow Up is a record I don't think many "outsiders" hearing it would consider a rock record when trying to label its style and sound.

It all gets fuzzy around this time, the crossover appeal of hit records was pretty unique at that time in popular music. Otherwise "The Singing Nun" wouldn't have had a #1 hit weeks before The Beatles appeared on Sullivan when they were just dominating the US charts, and Kyu Sakamoto's "Sukiyaki" would not have shared the #1 Billboard position with what we may call rock groups in 63-64. 

[SMiLE-addict]

^
I more or less agree with you, but I still think most people would categorize the BB as a "rock" group even though a lot of their stuff is likely to be classified as "pop." Given the near-impossibility of putting certain songs in one category or another, I would think it's safer just to go with the category the group is usually classified under.

Elvis, for example, recorded a lot of pop standards, but everyone knows he was a "rock and roll" singer.

[guitarfool2002]

I think a safe bet would be to word a historical reference to the song carefully and not make the claim of being the "first" to use it on a rock record, because the variables are too shaky. Say something like "When I Grow Up featured a very early use of a harpsichord by a pop/rock group in a non-classical song..." and it's not making a claim that can't be backed up.

Folks got into this deep water area about crediting Micky Dolenz using the Moog in '67, claimed to be the "first" on a pop/rock record, and it wasn't accurate yet the claim stuck with many people who assumed it to be true.