Four more years!

[RadBooley]

Rocknroll: we're dealing with extremists here. Nothing wrong with that and I can fully respect it, but it makes attempts at discussion useless. You can find any amount of literature, philosophy or thought to suit whatever view you choose to take. It's easy. But that's missing the point of literature, philosophy or thought. Otherwise, each book ever written would be the last.....

You're not dealing with extremists.  You're dealing with people with different viewpoints to your own.  

...in a country where our founding principles dictate that government should provide for the welfare of the people (and has been doing so for centuries0, I think the idea of having the government bow out and let corporations take over seems a tad extreme.

[Dunderhead]

Rocknroll: we're dealing with extremists here. Nothing wrong with that and I can fully respect it, but it makes attempts at discussion useless. You can find any amount of literature, philosophy or thought to suit whatever view you choose to take. It's easy. But that's missing the point of literature, philosophy or thought. Otherwise, each book ever written would be the last.....

You're not dealing with extremists.  You're dealing with people with different viewpoints to your own.  

...in a country where our founding principles dictate that government should provide for the welfare of the people (and has been doing so for centuries0, I think the idea of having the government bow out and let corporations take over seems a tad extreme.

"Providing for the welfare" didn't refer to welfare programs. Welfare programs were called "welfare" programs in order to justify their constitutionality using that association.

[Mendota Heights]

Rocknroll: we're dealing with extremists here. Nothing wrong with that and I can fully respect it, but it makes attempts at discussion useless. You can find any amount of literature, philosophy or thought to suit whatever view you choose to take. It's easy. But that's missing the point of literature, philosophy or thought. Otherwise, each book ever written would be the last.....

You're not dealing with extremists.  You're dealing with people with different viewpoints to your own.  

...in a country where our founding principles dictate that government should provide for the welfare of the people (and has been doing so for centuries0, I think the idea of having the government bow out and let corporations take over seems a tad extreme.

That is not how the word extreme is used. It is always other people's views that extreme, never your own ideas. The words extreme and extremist are used to denigrate someone who disagrees with you.

This way of arguing is very effective and hollow cultural-marxist words like racist, extremist, hate, discrimination and segregation are used all of the time and very few people want to be a racist, extremist, hater or someone who discriminates against others. This is how you control the masses. Make them feel guilty about things by inventing words with negative connotations.

[RadBooley]

Rocknroll: we're dealing with extremists here. Nothing wrong with that and I can fully respect it, but it makes attempts at discussion useless. You can find any amount of literature, philosophy or thought to suit whatever view you choose to take. It's easy. But that's missing the point of literature, philosophy or thought. Otherwise, each book ever written would be the last.....

You're not dealing with extremists.  You're dealing with people with different viewpoints to your own.  

...in a country where our founding principles dictate that government should provide for the welfare of the people (and has been doing so for centuries0, I think the idea of having the government bow out and let corporations take over seems a tad extreme.

"Providing for the welfare" didn't refer to welfare programs. Welfare programs were called "welfare" programs in order to justify their constitutionality using that association.

I'm not talking about welfare programs. More related to the arguments in this thread against government regulation of things like food and drug safety.

[Jason]

Rocknroll: we're dealing with extremists here. Nothing wrong with that and I can fully respect it, but it makes attempts at discussion useless. You can find any amount of literature, philosophy or thought to suit whatever view you choose to take. It's easy. But that's missing the point of literature, philosophy or thought. Otherwise, each book ever written would be the last.....

You're not dealing with extremists.  You're dealing with people with different viewpoints to your own.  

...in a country where our founding principles dictate that government should provide for the welfare of the people (and has been doing so for centuries0, I think the idea of having the government bow out and let corporations take over seems a tad extreme.

Man, statists and their CODE WORDS!

When have any of the anti-government people in this thread said that they want corporations to take over? Corporations basically run the country to begin with!

[Dunderhead]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/20121114142116909809.html

wait for it.

[Jason]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/20121114142116909809.html

wait for it.

Well...didn't Israel give Gaza the "green light" to hold elections a few years back? They did. I guess they elected the wrong people. This isn't a defense of Hamas. Hamas is just as bad as Israel.

Still...Israel can take care of themselves. Unless they try to pull another USS Liberty on us...and then I'd be just fine if the United States turned them into glass.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Rocknroll: we're dealing with extremists here. Nothing wrong with that and I can fully respect it, but it makes attempts at discussion useless. You can find any amount of literature, philosophy or thought to suit whatever view you choose to take. It's easy. But that's missing the point of literature, philosophy or thought. Otherwise, each book ever written would be the last.....

You're not dealing with extremists.  You're dealing with people with different viewpoints to your own.  

...in a country where our founding principles dictate that government should provide for the welfare of the people (and has been doing so for centuries0, I think the idea of having the government bow out and let corporations take over seems a tad extreme.

Man, statists and their CODE WORDS!

When have any of the anti-government people in this thread said that they want corporations to take over? Corporations basically run the country to begin with!

DING DING!

We have a winner!


Wouldn't rampant privatization of what little the government is left to run mean the corporations have finally taken complete control? Or do we think they'd let mom and pop run a health care outfit on the corner?

What about the IRS? Isn't it out of control enough as it is? How would privatizing it help us in any way? Maybe it would. Who knows?

[Jason]

Corporations are allowed to exist because of government, not in spite of government.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Corporations are allowed to exist because of government, not in spite of government.

I know that. But what can possibly be done?

[Bean Bag]

I'm signing off for good. Soon, Rocknroll, Hyphat, Guitarfool will bow out and the circle jerk will go on unabated.

One silly Beer-Hall-Putsch with no Hitler..... THE BEER HALL PUTZ!

ONE:  We're all on here to gripe and moan (or cheer), Erik.  So...let's put on our reality hats and have fun blasting each other.  I, for one, wasn't expecting to change anyone's mind, much less solve the world's problems by posting in the Sandbox.  My aim is to humiliate those beating their chest for the demise of the United States of America.  See?

TWO:  The Hitler comments -- I understand, weren't serious.  But it does illustrate the irrationality and intensity of the Statist.  They're scary, nasty people.  In the empty, collegiate Statist mind, they view people who don't want the State running healthcare -- as extreme.  That's twisted.  And immensely self-aggrandizing.  But that's who they are -- they're the smart ones.  We're "hillbillies."  (How'my doin'?  Sound 'bout right?  Yeeeeah...I know it does.)

Since when has wanting to be left alone become extreme?  Answser:  since the statist took over.  On what planet does that make sense?  Answer:  The Santa Clause planet.  The lazy, "gimme-my-obamaphone" planet.  And many a great things we can expect from THAT planet.   In reality (remember that?) -- it's the leftist, the Statist who is extreme.  Not us.  Not those who want to be left alone.  So...in your joke -- You're the Hitlers.

THREE:  At what age did you wave bye-bye to freedom?  We're talking about the government.  In a free nation, the gov't is supposed to be the referees.  To make sure the game is played fairly.  They regulate.  They regulate air-traffic.  Just the flow of traffic.  They don't own anything...not the cars and planes and the mechanic who fix the cars or the companies that make the cars -- oh.  Oh wait.  They own GM.

R.I.P. U.S.A.


Dear Third World,
We want to suck just like you!!!

Your Friend,
The American Statist.

[SMiLE Brian]

Corporations are allowed to exist because of government, not in spite of government.

I know that. But what can possibly be done?

The guy in your awesome new profile picture might have some answers.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I'm signing off for good. Soon, Rocknroll, Hyphat, Guitarfool will bow out and the circle jerk will go on unabated.

One silly Beer-Hall-Putsch with no Hitler..... THE BEER HALL PUTZ!

ONE:  We're all on here to gripe and moan (or cheer), Erik.  So...let's put on our reality hats and have fun blasting each other.  I, for one, wasn't expecting to change anyone's mind, much less solve the world's problems by posting in the Sandbox.  My aim is to humiliate those beating their chest for the demise of the United States of America.  See?

TWO:  The Hitler comments -- I understand, weren't serious.  But it does illustrate the irrationality and intensity of the Statist.  They're scary, nasty people.  In the empty, collegiate Statist mind, they view people who don't want the State running healthcare -- as extreme.  That's twisted.  And immensely self-aggrandizing.  But that's who they are -- they're the smart ones.  We're "hillbillies."  (How'my doin'?  Sound 'bout right?  Yeeeeah...I know it does.)

Since when has wanting to be left alone become extreme?  Answser:  since the statist took over.  On what planet does that make sense?  Answer:  The Santa Clause planet.  The lazy, "gimme-my-obamaphone" planet.  And many a great things we can expect from THAT planet.   In reality (remember that?) -- it's the leftist, the Statist who is extreme.  Not us.  Not those who want to be left alone.  So...in your joke -- You're the Hitlers.

THREE:  At what age did you wave bye-bye to freedom?  We're talking about the government.  In a free nation, the gov't is supposed to be the referees.  To make sure the game is played fairly.  They regulate.  They regulate air-traffic.  Just the flow of traffic.  They don't own anything...not the cars and planes and the mechanic who fix the cars or the companies that make the cars -- oh.  Oh wait.  They own GM.

R.I.P. U.S.A.


Dear Third World,
We want to suck just like you!!!

Your Friend,
The American Statist.

Oh come on man, I'm no statist. I think I've demonstrated the ability to conceded when someone contrary to myself has a good point, but I see very little of that on the other side. Thus, the extremist comment. OR maybe we're all correct about each other. I think we can live with that possibility.

Being left alone just isn't all that practical in a planet with as many folks running around as we have. I respect wanting to be alone and feel that way often myself... But still..... As for my Hitler comments: that was just me being a dick... I admit it.

The guy in my avatar would smack us across the face and order us to get on our knees and put all the tapes back into his mellotron.....NEATLY! .... Meanwhile Ray Thomas is standing behind us ready to do things we don't want him to with his flute.

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike and Ray haven't been this pissed since the Octave Recording sessions.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And here comes Patrick Moraz wielding an axe!! (well, a Key-tar)

[Bean Bag]

Oh come on man, I'm no statist. I think I've demonstrated the ability to conceded when someone contrary to myself has a good point, but I see very little of that on the other side. Thus, the extremist comment. OR maybe we're all correct about each other. I think we can live with that possibility.

Being left alone just isn't all that practical in a planet with as many folks running around as we have. I respect wanting to be alone and feel that way often myself... But still..... As for my Hitler comments: that was just me being a dick... I admit it.

The guy in my avatar would smack us across the face and order us to get on our knees and put all the tapes back into his mellotron.....NEATLY! .... Meanwhile Ray Thomas is standing behind us ready to do things we don't want him to with his flute.

I'm extreme when I use that dastardly yellow font!

As for Statism, it's the new black.  People are more sympathetic to Communism than they are Capitalism.  While anything involving man is doomed to be imperfect, captialism gives us the opportunity to take our business elsewhere.

Snuffing out freedom in the name of the unattainable perfection -- is fashionable.  It's cool.  It's hip.  It's even...compassionate.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Oh come on man, I'm no statist. I think I've demonstrated the ability to conceded when someone contrary to myself has a good point, but I see very little of that on the other side. Thus, the extremist comment. OR maybe we're all correct about each other. I think we can live with that possibility.

Being left alone just isn't all that practical in a planet with as many folks running around as we have. I respect wanting to be alone and feel that way often myself... But still..... As for my Hitler comments: that was just me being a dick... I admit it.

The guy in my avatar would smack us across the face and order us to get on our knees and put all the tapes back into his mellotron.....NEATLY! .... Meanwhile Ray Thomas is standing behind us ready to do things we don't want him to with his flute.

I'm extreme when I use that dastardly yellow font!

As for Statism, it's the new black.  People are more sympathetic to Communism than they are Capitalism.  While anything involving man is doomed to be imperfect, captialism gives us the opportunity to take our business elsewhere.

Snuffing out freedom in the name of the unattainable perfection -- is fashionable.  It's cool.  It's hip.  It's even...compassionate.

Fair enough but most people's thinking is a lot more shaded than you might be giving credit for. The idiots you used as above examples certainly don't hurt your case though...

I mean, I hardly consider total rule by corporations as "freedom" just because I'm free to buy their crap. Capitalism works to an extent, but it does not work to another extent and there is nothing wrong with pointing this out. Let's not forget the massive for-profit punishment industry that is just waiting giddily for any one of us to slip up just a bit..... There are valid grievances with capitalism as we know it here and now. Does this make me a statist or a communist or a socialist or an anti-freedom-er? Absolutely not.

[Jason]

As an liberally conservative reformed orthodox atheist, I find it hilarious when so many alleged "atheists" were at the Obama campaign stops looking at him like he's Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick.

Statism is more than just a political stance...it's a RELIGION. sh*t, the statists and the Christian conservatives should work together!

[SMiLE Brian]

Those "communist" items are capitalism at its finest. Selling goods in demand and making a profit.

[Jason]

Those "communist" items are capitalism at its finest. Selling goods in demand and making a profit.

EXACTLY!

So let these college age "viva la revolucion" fuckwits buy their Che Guevara t-shirts. The real irony is when you see a black guy wearing one. Somehow you'd think they wouldn't like it so much if they knew that Che Guevara was also a vicious racist...

[Bean Bag]

I mean, I hardly consider total rule by corporations as "freedom" just because I'm free to buy their crap.

you're free not to buy their crap.

Capitalism works to an extent, but it does not work to another extent and there is nothing wrong with pointing this out.  Does this make me a statist or a communist or a socialist or an anti-freedom-er? Absolutely not.

No, you're right -- it doesn't.  But the proverbial gun has been put to the proverbial head of healthcare industry.  It's back is against the wall, blind-fold applied, awaiting Jan 1, 2014...

Was the private health care insurance industry fantastic?  No.  But I do not want them to pull the trigger on it because 20 or 40 million people who didn't "buy it" -- should get it for free -- and the 250 million people who did buy it, lose it forever...doomed to crawl to the door of the State system, begging for that hip transplant at age 78, that the State feels is of little cost-benefit to the State?

For the cash Obama blew on windmills and Chevy Volts we could have bought the 20 million a damn HC plan -- AND a pack of smokes.

Now...we're fncked.  Fncked in the a5s.

[SMiLE Brian]

Those "communist" items are capitalism at its finest. Selling goods in demand and making a profit.

EXACTLY!

So let these college age "viva la revolucion" f***wits buy their Che Guevara t-shirts. The real irony is when you see a black guy wearing one. Somehow you'd think they wouldn't like it so much if they knew that Che Guevara was also a vicious racist...

This happens with urban outfitters, the owners are white older republicans who gave money to (gasp!) Rick Santorum.

[Bean Bag]

Those "communist" items are capitalism at its finest. Selling goods in demand and making a profit.

At it's finest?  Let's see...

In Communist countries, sporting a Capitalism bag gets you shot in the face.  And in south Philly a Mitt Romney button gets you a Black Panther, billystick up the pooper.  In Detriot a Romney/Ryan sign gets your brakes cut by an SEIU union thug.  

No...it's symbolic.  Self-hating Capitalism, shielding themselves from their guilt.  Freedom at it's most ignorant.  Capitalism on the wane.  Snake eating it's tail.  Head up a5s.

But, hey...freedom to be ignorant, and someone making a buck on it.  Gotta love it!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Those "communist" items are capitalism at its finest. Selling goods in demand and making a profit.

At it's finest?  Let's see...

In Communist countries, sporting a Capitalism bag gets you shot in the face.  And in south Philly a Mitt Romney button gets you a Black Panther, billystick up the pooper.  In Detriot a Romney/Ryan sign gets your brakes cut by an SEIU union thug.  

No...it's symbolic.  Self-hating Capitalism, shielding themselves from their guilt.  Freedom at it's most ignorant.  Capitalism on the wane.  Snake eating it's tail.  Head up a5s.

But, hey...freedom to be ignorant, and someone making a buck on it.  Gotta love it!

Try wearing an Obama shirt where my folks live in Idaho....

My mom worked for a lawyer out there who had Obama signs on his front lawn.... The guy left the state after getting repeated death threats!

And let's not forget all the racist, insane, war loving, closeted, Romney voting psychopaths  packing them mega-churches and keeping the fish-bumper-ornament makers in business.....

The idiots in the shirts in those pictures would wear a shirt with Charles Manson on it if it were popular or would make them look cool (this actually WAS cool for a while there) and are not examples of anything other than simple idiocy.

[SMiLE Brian]

People just need to chill out and enjoy life. Its hard to live in this world with minions of political parties making life difficult just because you use your right to free speech and thought.