Official thread for Brian & Al's Official Response to Mike/Bruce Band Tour in the LA Times

[Shady]

I doubt it.

I think were all getting a little burned out on the squabbling. When I look past tabloid junk aspect of this story I get bummed out about how it's spoiled a beautiful year in Beach Boys history

I know.    The whole reunion thing was so great that it felt like it was too good to be true. Guess it was 

No need to get down. I'm sure Mike and Bruce will be playing your nearest county fair some time soon

[Custom Machine]

No way is all of this manufactured publicity.  Mike would be crazy to agree to all this back and forth stuff being published as most of it not only makes him look bad, but it makes the Mike & Bruce BBs seem less legitimate in the public's eyes and thus may give many people serious pause about attending the M&B BB shows.  

From Capitol Records' perspective, right now they've gotta be in favor of the BB50 reunited group continuing, as those concerts feature great publicity for That's Why God Made the Radio, and feature at least two songs from the new album, compared to zero from the current Mike & Bruce BB shows.

But, assuming the guys do get together and put out another album (and I hope they do) and then regroup for another BBs Reunited tour (and I hope they do), all this publicity will have the benefit of laying the groundwork for a major "Beach Boys reunite for another album and concert series" campaign.

[Justin]

I doubt it.

I think were all getting a little burned out on the squabbling. When I look past tabloid junk aspect of this story I get bummed out about how it's spoiled a beautiful year in Beach Boys history

I know.    The whole reunion thing was so great that it felt like it was too good to be true. Guess it was 

So now the reunion and all the great stuff that happened this past summer is now completely erased like it never happened?

For fans of a group who's music inspires peace, beauty and fun...we sure are a moody, Debbie-Downer bunch, aren't we?

[John Malone]

Aw yeah, now we're talking.

Grab the popcorn and put your cursor on Refresh, kids. This thread's gonna be fun.

For long time fans, this should be like Old Home Week. Having the band back together is not complete without some classic Beach Boys infighting. It's just like back in the day. But this time, we have the internet message boards and social media to follow it instantaneously. At least back in the day of the Newark Airport throwdown and other classic moments, we had to find out second-hand.

[Wylson]

Brian and Al should take the opportunity to do an album with California Saga.

[Sheriff John Stone]

This "it was out of Mike's hand, he already booked shows, what is he supposed to do, cancel them?" reasoning is not applicable here.

Even Brian's "statement" seems to suggest they were made aware of these few bookings, and kind of had the same attitude a lot fans did, which was "oh, hmmm, well, that's kind of cheap and cheesy, but whatever." 

It is TOTALLY applicable. That's why Brian, Al and David are not on stage with Mike & Bruce.

Yeah, Brian might consider the Mike & Bruce bookings "cheap and cheesy". Do you think he'll cash the checks he gets from them?

[Doo Dah]

Aw yeah, now we're talking.

Grab the popcorn and put your cursor on Refresh, kids. This thread's gonna be fun.

For long time fans, this should be like Old Home Week. Having the band back together is not complete without some classic Beach Boys infighting. It's just like back in the day. But this time, we have the internet message boards and social media to follow it instantaneously. At least back in the day of the Newark Airport throwdown and other classic moments, we had to find out second-hand.

Quite true. Depending on the era, we've had up to four different factions driving the bus (yes, even Carl and Dennis in their own singular way). I'm still surprised that Brian had as much leeway as he did with TWGMTR. Surprised in a good way - wonder if it would have been as magnanimous if Carl were still alive.

Still, with a #3 debut (whether or not it could ever be duplicated), Brian has Capitol on his side. Perhaps the label will sort this mess out. Money talks, and Bruce claps!

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Brian and Al should take the opportunity to do an album with California Saga.

Hell yeah...those guys sounded amazing. Wish they'd come to England.


"Brian Wilson presents Al Jardine's Beach Boys Family and Friends (incorporating California Saga) FT David Marks"

[EgoHanger1966]

Aw yeah, now we're talking.

Grab the popcorn and put your cursor on Refresh, kids. This thread's gonna be fun.

For long time fans, this should be like Old Home Week. Having the band back together is not complete without some classic Beach Boys infighting. It's just like back in the day. But this time, we have the internet message boards and social media to follow it instantaneously. At least back in the day of the Newark Airport throwdown and other classic moments, we had to find out second-hand.

Quite true. Depending on the era, we had up to four different factions driving the bus (yes, even Carl and Dennis in their own singular way). I'm still surprised that Brian had as much leeway as he did with TWGMTR. Surprised in a good way - wonder if it would have been as magnanimous if Carl were still alive.

Still, with a #3 debut (whether or not it could ever be duplicated), Brian has Capitol on his side. Perhaps the label will sort this mess out. Money talks, and Bruce claps!

If they can get on QVC again, they'll probably be guaranteed a Top Ten album.

[HeyJude]

This "it was out of Mike's hand, he already booked shows, what is he supposed to do, cancel them?" reasoning is not applicable here.

Even Brian's "statement" seems to suggest they were made aware of these few bookings, and kind of had the same attitude a lot fans did, which was "oh, hmmm, well, that's kind of cheap and cheesy, but whatever." 

It is TOTALLY applicable. That's why Brian, Al and David are not on stage with Mike & Bruce.

Yeah, Brian might consider the Mike & Bruce bookings "cheap and cheesy". Do you think he'll cash the checks he gets from them?

The problem is that people are blaming the existence of the show bookings instead of blaming Mike for his overriding decision to not tour with the other guys. It's being presented as if these bookings just happened, and Mike has no choice but to do them. Mike didn't book the shows, and then decide to not tour with the other guys. First of all, even if he did, then that would still have been his fault and his decision. But this isn't how it happened. Mike booked the shows because he had already decided he didn't want to tour more with the other guys at this time.

I'm just trying to articulate how I feel the arguments supporting Mike doing his own thing seem to be using this sort of weird, reflexive logic that Mike had no choice but to do the shows because he, well, had to do the shows. Saying all of that ignores why the shows existed in the first place. They existed because Mike wanted to do them, and do them instead of touring with the other guys. And that's fine if that's his decision, but he will then be painted accordingly as the dude who sent everyone home while the party was still fun.

[Cam Mott]

I guess the Boys didn't waste a lot of their down time talking to each other during the reunion tour or since.

This is just  another crap move from Brian and Al [or their people  ] in this fiasco and is about two weeks too late. This could all have been avoided with a BRI board meeting [or even a chat over dinner] it sounds to me.

[HeyJude]

This "it was out of Mike's hand, he already booked shows, what is he supposed to do, cancel them?" reasoning is not applicable here.

Even Brian's "statement" seems to suggest they were made aware of these few bookings, and kind of had the same attitude a lot fans did, which was "oh, hmmm, well, that's kind of cheap and cheesy, but whatever." 

It is TOTALLY applicable. That's why Brian, Al and David are not on stage with Mike & Bruce.

Yeah, Brian might consider the Mike & Bruce bookings "cheap and cheesy". Do you think he'll cash the checks he gets from them?

I will also add that, regardless of how Brian feels or will feel about any Mike/Bruce bookings, and regardless of whether Brian changes any of the license arrangements in the future regarding the BB name, he would be entitled to that royalty from the live show, whether he wanted the show to happen or not. Mike Love pays a licensing fee to use the trademark, and Brian is one of the holders of the trademark. It's the same thing with Al. He (presumably/allegedly) got his cut of the licensing fee throughout the entire time he may have disagreed with Mike using the name, because Al also is one the holders of the trademark.

It's not as if Brian's only method now for showing displeasure with Mike's tour is to publicly burn the licensing fees he is entitled to.

[HeyJude]

I guess the Boys didn't waste a lot of their down time talking to each other during the reunion tour or since.

This is just  another crap move from Brian and Al [or their people  ] in this fiasco and is about two weeks too late. This could all have been avoided with a BRI board meeting [or even a chat over dinner] it sounds to me.

I'm pretty sure the whole "board meeting/chat over dinner" thing works both ways.

"Another crap move from Brian and Al".... um, yeah, they wanted to do more reunion shows after receiving amazing reviews from the press and fans. I'm sure the fans are just hating them for that right now........

[Heysaboda]

Will Mike also respond to Brian's response?  LOL

[Sheriff John Stone]

Mike didn't book the shows, and then decide to not tour with the other guys.

Mike booked the shows, but there was no decision to be made whether Brian, Al, and David would accompany him. The reason no decision was made is because Mike - nor many other people - gave this reunion tour much of a chance of running its course, probably not going for 50 dates and certainly not being extended by 13 shows and a month and a half.

As far as the "fans" on this board blasting Mike, it is just more hypocrisy. Do you remember before this whole reunion thing came about, how almost NOBODY gave it a chance. There won't be more than one or two dates. Brian won't accompany them. Mike won't take Al back. David won't be asked. They can't sing anymore. How will they ever put a backing band together. They should just have a dinner and talk about old times. Nobody (well, I did) thought this reunion had a chance, and nobody thought if it did come about, that it would exceed all expectations.

But, I guess Mike wasn't allowed to think that. He should've known how great it was going to be. He should've know that the tour would be extended to 73 dates and a month and a half. He should've known that Al would have a change of heart about putting his solo career on hold. He should've known the album would hit No. 3 on the charts. He should've known how Brian would turn an about face and WANT to be a Beach Boy again. How dare Mike think like the rest of us and go ahead and book some future dates (as Mike & Bruce) to continue his career. He should've known better. Like we did? Like you did?

[Sheriff John Stone]

It's not as if Brian's only method now for showing displeasure with Mike's tour is to publicly burn the licensing fees he is entitled to.

It's called putting your money where your mouth is.

[Dave in KC]

GREED:
a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money or control/power) than is needed, often at the expense of others.

[Shady]

Ohhh, that's sounds about right

[MBE]

It wouldn't be the Beach Boys if piss poor decisions didn't go hand in hand with their triumphs. Honestly I think the people around the Beach Boys have made the trouble for them all these years more than the Beach Boys themselves. They worked well together before Murry died because they all lived in the same area, and sat and talked about what they were doing. Once they began to talk through second parties that's when all the crap went down and still goes down. One thing the Beach Boys should all do, if they do now care to be a group, is discuss what they are doing directly with each other. If they did that problem solved.

My 2 cents is that The Beach Boys should only go on at this point if they have an artistically valid reason to be together. If not they should hang it up. I think the Mike and Bruce dates that were scheduled should be honored, but as for me I don't think they should book any more. Either way it's the P.R. people messing this up.

[Nicko1234]

The problem is that people are blaming the existence of the show bookings instead of blaming Mike for his overriding decision to not tour with the other guys. It's being presented as if these bookings just happened, and Mike has no choice but to do them. Mike didn't book the shows, and then decide to not tour with the other guys. First of all, even if he did, then that would still have been his fault and his decision. But this isn't how it happened. Mike booked the shows because he had already decided he didn't want to tour more with the other guys at this time.

Sorry but you really are twisting the facts there...

It wasn`t Mike who decided on the 50 concerts tour idea so you can`t say that he wanted the tour to end at a certain point from the beginning. You can say however that he THOUGHT it would end at a certain point. From Mike`s statement you can deduce that initially they weren`t even sure that Brian would do all of those 50 shows so they certainly wouldn`t have expected him to want to carry on touring for the entire year. If Mike,  `didn`t want to tour more with the other guys` right from the beginning then why did he agree to cram in as many concerts as they could before October?  

The timeline is clear...

Brian and the band arranged 50 summer shows which should have ended in August.
Mike then started booking shows for October onwards as he thought the reunion tour would be long finished by then.
Brian and Al then said that they wanted to do more shows.
About 25 extra shows were booked up to the end of September meaning no gap before the Mike and Bruce shows.
Brian and Al said that they wanted things to continue into October.
Mike said that they couldn`t as he had other shows booked.

[HeyJude]

Mike didn't book the shows, and then decide to not tour with the other guys.

Mike booked the shows, but there was no decision to be made whether Brian, Al, and David would accompany him. The reason no decision was made is because Mike - nor many other people - gave this reunion tour much of a chance of running its course, probably not going for 50 dates and certainly not being extended by 13 shows and a month and a half.

As far as the "fans" on this board blasting Mike, it is just more hypocrisy. Do you remember before this whole reunion thing came about, how almost NOBODY gave it a chance. There won't be more than one or two dates. Brian won't accompany them. Mike won't take Al back. David won't be asked. They can't sing anymore. How will they ever put a backing band together. They should just have a dinner and talk about old times. Nobody (well, I did) thought this reunion had a chance, and nobody thought if it did come about, that it would exceed all expectations.

But, I guess Mike wasn't allowed to think that. He should've known how great it was going to be. He should've know that the tour would be extended to 73 dates and a month and a half. He should've known that Al would have a change of heart about putting his solo career on hold. He should've known the album would hit No. 3 on the charts. He should've known how Brian would turn an about face and WANT to be a Beach Boy again. How dare Mike think like the rest of us and go ahead and book some future dates (as Mike & Bruce) to continue his career. He should've known better. Like we did? Like you did?

I certainly never was a particular naysayer about the reunion, especially once it was announced. I thought it would happen without Brian bailing or the band breaking into a fistfight on stage. I didn't know how good the show or album would be, but once it was all announced, I didn't doubt it would all happen. It turned out to be really good, especially the tour.

As for Mike and his disposition around his expectations of the tour, this is not at all the argument I've seen being used to support the lack of additional reunion shows and the continued booking of Mike's band. First, it was "the shows are already booked, what was Mike supposed to do?" My answer is that he could have rescheduled the shows, tried to morph them into reunion show, or yes, maybe cancel them, or do the shows and then jump right back into reunion shows. Any of those would work and might have been doable. But now the reasoning has shifted to "How could Mike have known the reunion would be successful? He booked shows because he didn't know it was going to be successful." I have plenty of ideas for how this could have been worked around. Once he knew it was successful, he *then* could have agreed to additional reunion bookings and stopped booking any future Mike/Bruce shows.

Here's the thing: Nowhere in Mike's statement does he really seem to indicate that he wants to do more reunion stuff as if some uncontrollable outside force is keeping him from doing it. He is choosing not to right now, and his statement pretty much supports this. He makes a lame attempt to justify booking shows in smaller markets as if his touring is an altruistic venture for fans. But beyond that, his statement reads like he's kind of done with the reunion. That's his choice. But excuses can't be made for this. He is choosing this.

I'm not suggesting everything could have gone totally smoothly. Maybe a few Mike/Bruce shows would have had to happen, maybe some awkward reshuffling and reorganization. But it could have happened, and hopefuly still will.

Regarding Mike's ideas about how well the tour would go, I'll actually go so far as to say he doesn't view the tour as going as swimmingly as Brian or Al or some (or most) of the fans feel. I think the bloated touring costs, having to share more money at the gate, not having as much control, not being the center of attention, having Brian announced last to the most thunderous applause, all of those things have not left quite as good of a taste in his mouth about this reunion tour as some of the other guys. It doesn't mean Mike didn't enjoy it or didn't recognize the good parts of it too. I'm amazed he ever signed up for it. I'm much more amazed he signed on for it than I am that Brian did. In that sense, we truly are lucky we got what we did. I'm still hoping for more....

[JohnMill]

It was fair for Brian to come forward with his response but was it really needed?  I don't think so.  We're rehashing the same details and covering the same ground.  If this is all manufactured publicity (which I believe a good part of it is) I wish they would stop at this point because it's becoming a little to "reality tv show" for me.  It wouldn't be the Beach Boys without some drama, I know, but I've reached my capacity on this one!

You said it all Justin.  This whole shebang if it is manufactured publicity is really disrespectful to the fanbase.

[HeyJude]

The problem is that people are blaming the existence of the show bookings instead of blaming Mike for his overriding decision to not tour with the other guys. It's being presented as if these bookings just happened, and Mike has no choice but to do them. Mike didn't book the shows, and then decide to not tour with the other guys. First of all, even if he did, then that would still have been his fault and his decision. But this isn't how it happened. Mike booked the shows because he had already decided he didn't want to tour more with the other guys at this time.

Sorry but you really are twisting the facts there...

It wasn`t Mike who decided on the 50 concerts tour idea so you can`t say that he wanted the tour to end at a certain point from the beginning. You can say however that he THOUGHT it would end at a certain point. From Mike`s statement you can deduce that initially they weren`t even sure that Brian would do all of those 50 shows so they certainly wouldn`t have expected him to want to carry on touring for the entire year. If Mike,  `didn`t want to tour more with the other guys` right from the beginning then why did he agree to cram in as many concerts as they could before October?  

The timeline is clear...

Brian and the band arranged 50 summer shows which should have ended in August.
Mike then started booking shows for October onwards as he thought the reunion tour would be long finished by then.
Brian and Al then said that they wanted to do more shows.
About 25 extra shows were booked up to the end of September meaning no gap before the Mike and Bruce shows.
Brian and Al said that they wanted things to continue into October.
Mike said that they couldn`t as he had other shows booked.

When I say that Mike had already planned on not touring with the reunion band, I don't mean as it pertains to any one specific date. I'm glad he agreed to the additional dates. What I mean is that he knew they wouldn't be touring through the end of the year. He decided at some point relatively early on that he would be doing his own shows by October.

His decision to book October shows apparently is part of his (or your) justification for not doing more reunion shows. How could this have been avoided? Lots of ways. How about just not booking any shows until things were clear? Mike says in his statement that more time was supposed to pass between the reunion and his own shows. This implies he recognizes that time should pass between the two. I contend that even more time should. How about just waiting until the new year to do shows? Again, Mike can book shows whenever he wants. And once again, he will be characterized accordingly as not being able or willing to just give it a little breathing room. I contend his reasons for not giving it any breathing room are mostly selfish.

I'm also not in total agreement with your "timeline." We don't know when Mike booked the shows. Nobody seems to know, and maybe it doesn't matter. He may have booked them last year. We just don't know. The cancellation of Nutty Jerry's again suggests Mike may well have been able to cancel his additional October bookings, perhaps with some financial consequences. But it could have been done.

I also simply don't agree with this last part of your timeline: "Mike said that they couldn`t as he had other shows booked." This is the crux of a big part of my problem with these contentions. Apart from all the stuff I've already said about how the bookings were all by Mike's CHOICE, this also all ignores that Mike's not wanting to do more reunion shows right now is about far more than a few October gigs. If the Mike press release that started this all off had stated "Mike and Bruce had prior committments and will be performing with their lineup for the following October dates", and had then gone on to describe more reunion shows for November or December or next year, then I would believe that this was a "oops, booked a few October gigs, gotta get them out of the way and hold off on more reunion shows in October" situation.

[Nicko1234]

As for Mike and his disposition around his expectations of the tour, this is not at all the argument I've seen being used to support the lack of additional reunion shows and the continued booking of Mike's band. First, it was "the shows are already booked, what was Mike supposed to do?" My answer is that he could have rescheduled the shows, tried to morph them into reunion show, or yes, maybe cancel them, or do the shows and then jump right back into reunion shows. Any of those would work and might have been doable. But now the reasoning has shifted to "How could Mike have known the reunion would be successful? He booked shows because he didn't know it was going to be successful." I have plenty of ideas for how this could have been worked around. Once he knew it was successful, he *then* could have agreed to additional reunion bookings and stopped booking any future Mike/Bruce shows.

You are kind of contradicting what you yourself wrote today but...

None of us knows the specifics of the relevant tours. Your idea about morphing the M&B shows into reunion shows certainly wouldn`t have worked though. The tours are completely different.

I agree that Mike could have cancelled the tours but I don`t like the way that it is being implied by some that that would have been a morally honourable thing to do. It wouldn`t. Fans, promoters and venues shouldn`t be let down like that just because someone`s had a better offer.

The issue of switching back and forth between M&B shows and reunion shows is an interesting one. That would have been a long way from ideal and of course none of us know exactly when these extra reunion shows could have taken place or whether that would have been feasible.

[HeyJude]

Three weeks between the last Australian show and the first London gig... so why not play the shows offered then ?  Hmmmm ?

I don't think venues or promoters offer gigs to band and just let the band pick where and when to do the gigs. Maybe the additional offers were made in late August or something, or early September. Maybe they were made specific offers for specific dates well after September or October. The mention of a new year's show suggest that is a possibility.