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Author Topic: should they have experimented with a harder sound?  (Read 3333 times)
drbeachboy
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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2012, 12:25:22 PM »

I think "Student Demonstration Time" is a clunker for its lyrics more than the music, which is a fine display of Carl's ability to actually rock out. And yet I can't bring myself to quite say it's a good track...
The track sounds very cluttered. I would have loved to hear the horns a bit more prominent in the mix.
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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2012, 01:04:39 PM »

I would love to hear the harder version of "Keepin the Summer Alive" that Randy Bachman talks about in Mark's book. I think Carl certainly had the vocal chops to pull off tougher rock and still sound authentic. The line he does on "Rock n Roll to the Rescue" is the best thing in that song. Hell, the verses of "Let Us Go on This Way" are pretty hard to my MOR ears.
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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2012, 01:23:57 PM »

Yeah, Carl should've swallowed sandpaper more considering it was to very good effect!
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2012, 01:56:40 PM »

Somewhere, someplace, this is an unreleased tape of the BB's pounding their way through Dazed and Confused. Carl rockin' the guitar like Mr. Page (or Mr. Davies, depending on who you believe), Dennis attacking the drums like a savage, and Mike screaming at the top of his range like Robert Plant.
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2012, 02:03:57 PM »

I think River Song is the best example of "heavy" Beach Boys music, the rocking gospel feel with crunchy guitar and Ricky playing a Bonham-esque beat is a perfect bed for Dennis soulful lead vocal. It still sounds like Beach Boys music in places, but as if they'd managed to evolve into a mature '70's band. And Phoenix is right I did explore the "harder sound" subject in the Beach Boys FAQ book in a couple of places.
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Rocky Raccoon
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« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2012, 02:09:48 PM »

I think "Student Demonstration Time" is a clunker for its lyrics more than the music, which is a fine display of Carl's ability to actually rock out. And yet I can't bring myself to quite say it's a good track...

I really hate Student Demonstration Time.  The megaphone effect on Mike's vocal, the goshdarn sirens, it's just a really sloppy production and it sticks out like a sore thumb on the Surf's Up album. 

And I love how Mike tries to pretend that they were making a relevant statement in the "American Band" documentary. 

"Surfing and cars were okay but there was a war going on."  LOL
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"Back in 1966, I had started composing and recording little pieces of music, knowing I would find a way to fit them together to make a whole song. I remember at the time, people around me didn't really understand what I was trying to do. They were impatient. But I was determined not to rush it. That's an important lesson; if you believe in what you're doing, don't let other people stop you." Brian Wilson
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« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2012, 02:14:00 PM »

I wish they would have done more songs with a harder edge that wouldn't have soundd out of place on FM radio. Some did get airply, some did not. But really liked their harder edged stuff such as:

It's About Time
Marcella
Sail On Sailor
You Need A Mess of Help To Stand Alone
River Song
What's Wrong
KTSA (live Knebworth version)
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joe_blow
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« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2012, 02:16:54 PM »

"Surfing and cars were okay but there was a war going on."  LOL


A LOT...was going down.... Grin
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« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2012, 02:30:15 PM »

The best thing The Beach Boys ever did was not try to copy The Beatles - Post Pet Sounds.

They went off on their on journey. A better one.
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« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2012, 04:06:35 PM »

The best thing The Beach Boys ever did was not try to copy The Beatles - Post Pet Sounds.

They went off on their on journey. A better one.

I agree, Beach Boys made a whole new story from that point. The Beatles stopped working together, started fighting, and made that sloppy mosh which is Abbey Road. There is more candy in that album than at any funfair I ever went to.
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runnersdialzero
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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2012, 06:18:17 PM »

Nothing much to add, just wanted to agree 100% with all those in the "no" pool. No no no no no no no no no. "All I Want To Do" showed that they could do it as well as anyone of the day but clearly didn't need to beyond that.

Mike screaming at the top of his range like Robert Plant.

Do not want.
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« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2012, 08:22:53 PM »

Nothing much to add, just wanted to agree 100% with all those in the "no" pool. No no no no no no no no no.
Do not want.
So you're thinking maybe then ?
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« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2012, 08:56:17 PM »

The best thing The Beach Boys ever did was not try to copy The Beatles - Post Pet Sounds.

They went off on their on journey. A better one.

I agree, Beach Boys made a whole new story from that point. The Beatles stopped working together, started fighting, and made that sloppy mosh which is Abbey Road. There is more candy in that album than at any funfair I ever went to.

Certainly glad the Beach Boys never sunk to fighting and stopping working together
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« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2012, 10:37:57 PM »

It might have been better for their career, if they could have pulled it off without sounding forced; I think Dennis and carl both would have had to have wrritten more songs for the band as I don't feel Brian's heart is really in the Classic guitar rock sound.


Ultimately, though, theirr music is their music and I'm glad it's gone the way it has.
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« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2012, 11:20:00 PM »

Friday Night is pretty dirty sounding. Not "hard" necessarily, but it's got that edge most of the Beach Boys' music didn't have.
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« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2012, 04:11:55 AM »

If they had have gone in a harder, heavier direction it would have been interesting to have seen Mike headbanging live. Mike the mosher, anyone?
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« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2012, 04:12:51 AM »

If they had have gone in a harder, heavier direction it would have been interesting to have seen Mike headbanging live. Mike the mosher, anyone?
That's just cruel.  Grin
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2012, 06:19:20 AM »

The best thing The Beach Boys ever did was not try to copy The Beatles - Post Pet Sounds.

They went off on their on journey. A better one.

I agree, Beach Boys made a whole new story from that point. The Beatles stopped working together, started fighting, and made that sloppy mosh which is Abbey Road. There is more candy in that album than at any funfair I ever went to.

Certainly glad the Beach Boys never sunk to fighting and stopping working together

 LOL
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« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2012, 07:48:35 AM »

If they had have gone in a harder, heavier direction it would have been interesting to have seen Mike headbanging live. Mike the mosher, anyone?
That's just cruel.  Grin

I'm still disappointed that Brian didn't crowd surf at Bonnaroo.  Grin
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2012, 10:13:36 AM »

I think "Student Demonstration Time" is a clunker for its lyrics more than the music, which is a fine display of Carl's ability to actually rock out. And yet I can't bring myself to quite say it's a good track...

I really hate Student Demonstration Time.  The megaphone effect on Mike's vocal, the goshdarn sirens, it's just a really sloppy production and it sticks out like a sore thumb on the Surf's Up album. 

And I love how Mike tries to pretend that they were making a relevant statement in the "American Band" documentary. 

"Surfing and cars were okay but there was a war going on."  LOL
COMMENT: 

There is no right nor wrong in art, only preference.   But I would take issue with you on saying the production values are sloppy, just because you don't like the sound of a megaphone or sirens. The production values of this song are just as strong, and more complex, than other songs on the Surf's Up album.

If you lived through the 60s, the civil riots, the unrest, the antiwar demonstrations, the crowds of unruly students in the streets, with hundreds of young soldiers dieing every day -- every day, and in-depth TV coverage of people being shot at close range coming into our living rooms every night, you might have more understanding of "the why and wherefore" of the song being part of a surf album. 

Yes, Michael is very correct in stating his concerns. He was seeing all this going on in Santa Barbara, CA where he lived. It was in his front yard. It was in all our lives. It was a sick time. The country was sick. And much of it was needless.

So Michael was moved to write a song about war protest. His approach was to offer vocal advice to the listener as to what to do when you may be caught up in one of these civil unrests -- so as not to get killed.  Remember Kent State was still in the news when the lyrics were written.

Production Values.  The tonal picture Michael wished to paint OR the setting he wanted use to present his song did give me a challenge to keep production values at their standards and still make a listenable song.

Picture Michael speaking to a crowd of students that are in a rally, in a school yard, surrounded by school buildings and administration structures. He is speaking to them using a PA system and the reflection of his speech is bouncing off of the buildings. There is also other activity and antiwar demonstrations taking place. the sirens are moving around the school yard builds and can be heard around you.

Unfortunately, the sound picture colapes fairly flat in stereo. When you hear this song properly (with Matrix resolution) the production makes more sense. You do get a sense of the school yard space and the buildings sound further removed. The sirens move around the room, not just side to side. The lyric message remains the same, but the production values put into the sound-picture are more easily heard and appreciated.

Some day soon you will hear what I mean.  Until then,

Good Listening,
  ~Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2012, 02:48:52 PM »

Well put, Mr Desper!  I think you did a great job.  I've never had as much against the song as most people around these parts and I think you did a great job (increasing its jarring "surprise" by placing it after "Disney Girls", etc.), especially when one thinks about doing service to Mike's sonic requests, and even more so in context of the rest of the album.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2012, 04:49:48 PM »

I wish they would have done more songs with a harder edge that wouldn't have soundd out of place on FM radio. Some did get airply, some did not. But really liked their harder edged stuff such as:

It's About Time
Marcella
Sail On Sailor
You Need A Mess of Help To Stand Alone
River Song
What's Wrong
KTSA (live Knebworth version)


That's the beginning of a pretty cool playlist.  Much appreciated  Smokin
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« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2012, 06:50:06 PM »


Fantastic track by an awesome and much loved group.

Mainstream media might have reduced sixties music to 'Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys', but there are legions of believers who'll never forget.

Hear, hear. Mass in F Minor is the sh*t. Gotta love David Axelrod!

The album was ripped to shreds in Rolling Stone at the time, but like Craig said, many of the blues rock bands they were championing at the time have fallen into semi-obscurity, while the cream (pardon the pun) has more or less risen in stature.
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« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2012, 03:21:16 AM »



The album was ripped to shreds in Rolling Stone at the time, but like Craig said, many of the blues rock bands they were championing at the time have fallen into semi-obscurity, while the cream (pardon the pun) has more or less risen in stature.


Loads of things haven't risen in stature though, and it doesn't mean they are bad...there's still SO much stuff to discover- not even that's rare/expensive, record collecting wise... the 'Bergen White' of my user name made a killer Pet Sounds sounding record that came out on a label that dressed it up like a cheesy lounge record. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JsWvGtJMHA

There are probably records that Rolling Stone didn't even deign to cover that kick ass. I just read that someone had to BEG Melody Maker in the uk to be allowed to review Gene Clark's 'no other'...I mean...seriously? Screw the music press.
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« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2012, 08:57:34 AM »

Ever heard cover versions that improve on what the BBs did with their own material?
Yes
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