Public/Fan's reaction to Our Prayer and Cabinessence on 20/20 not SMiLE.

[Melt Away]

When 20/20 came out, did the fans/general public think or know Our Prayer and Cabinessence were originally planned to belong on SMiLE??

[Disney Boy (1985)]

This is something i've always wondered too. After all, while hardly a success, 20/20 certainly charted a hell of a lot higher than Friends and Sunflower (it reached 3 in the UK). Now was this down to the inclusion of several recent successful singles or was it the SMiLE tracks, or both? I suppose Our Prayer and Cabinessence didn't have the same familiarity with the public as Surf's Up so it could entirely be down to the singles. But as you say, even when they heard the album, did the public know that the closing tracks were from SMiLE? Did the Beach Boys ever acknowledge the origin of these tracks publicly at the time? 

[Custom Machine]

When 20/20 came out, did the fans/general public think or know those were originally planned  to belong  on SMiLE??

As someone who bought 20/20 when it was first released, I didn't have a clue that Our Prayer or Cabinessence had been intended for Smile.  When I looked at the writers credits for Cabinessence, my thought was, "Oh, cool, Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks recently got together again and wrote another song."

[Cabinessenceking]

When 20/20 came out, did the fans/general public think or know those were originally planned  to belong  on SMiLE??

As someone who bought 20/20 when it was first released, I didn't have a clue that Our Prayer or Cabinessence had been intended for Smile.  When I looked at the writers credits for Cabinessence, my thought was, "Oh, cool, Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks recently got together again and wrote another song."

this is very interesting imo. What did you think of  Cabinessence when you first heard it? Did it not strike you as being very different from the rest of the 20/20 material? could you please share any thoughts you can recall on the matter?

[gxios]

I bought it in 1969 because I wanted to hear "Do It Again" in stereo.  Boy was I disappointed! I too did not have a Smile consciousness then-  the hype didn't start unit "Surf's Up".  "Cabinessence" was interesting and progressive, but I liked "I Went To Sleep" and "Time To Get Alone" just as much.

[oldsurferdude]

Bought it knowing that Cabin was indeed a product of Smile but did not have an inkling that OP was from the sessions. Info in those days was few and far between as was finding that info. Cabin was an incredibly fascinating deep track that left me wanting more.

[Melt Away]

I gave 20/20 a full listen again yesterday and the thought stayed with me all day. It blows my mind how I've never heard anything about this but I'm sure Dennis probably smoked a few joints and told some insiders  

[Bean Bag]

Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends.  People must have thought the Beach Boys had been taken over, supplanted by imposters.

This was the "Paul is dead" time. 

I've always wondered what people thought at that time.  Wild Honey is an extremely arty album.  Did it get noticed as "art?"  It sure as f-ck wasn't pop.

[pixletwin]

Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends.  People must have thought the Beach Boys had been taken over, supplanted by imposters.

This was the "Paul is dead" time. 

I've always wondered what people thought at that time.  Wild Honey is an extremely arty album.  Did it get noticed as "art?"  It sure as f-ck wasn't pop.

Not sure I would ever have considered Wild Honey to be art rock. R&B yes. Art rock? 

[Bean Bag]

Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends.  People must have thought the Beach Boys had been taken over, supplanted by imposters.

This was the "Paul is dead" time. 

I've always wondered what people thought at that time.  Wild Honey is an extremely arty album.  Did it get noticed as "art?"  It sure as f-ck wasn't pop.

Not sure I would ever have considered Wild Honey to be art rock. R&B yes. Art rock? 

I really got into Wild Honey when I was studying art/painting and it fit perfectly.  It was "love just once to see you."  The idea that a song could be about nothing.  Moods and shading.  "...you bake me a pie."  It was very profound in an artistic way.  Still life.  That was my reaction.

But just as well -- the production was an artistic statement.  Minimalist.  Very colored.  It was now apparent that it was all deliberate -- the simplicity and all.  R&B "tempo" was just the vehicle.  To me, Wild Honey was a very deliberate artistic statement.  I think it would have been profound in 1967.


Smiley just seemed more like a mental, mind-fck or prank gone awry.  Kids on dope.  But...of course very, daring and interesting to me.  Gosh...extremely daring!

[oldsurferdude]

Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends.  People must have thought the Beach Boys had been taken over, supplanted by imposters.

This was the "Paul is dead" time. 

I've always wondered what people thought at that time.  Wild Honey is an extremely arty album.  Did it get noticed as "art?"  It sure as f-ck wasn't pop.

Actually, WH and Darlin' must have had some commercial appeal b/c they both got airplay as singles with Darlin' getting alot more than WH. Of course we all had  mild trepidation after the SS debacle-who wouldn't? Got over it quickly and bought WH-all was forgiven by me that is. SS surely put a large dent in the group's rep.

[Autotune]

"Melt Away", could you please rename the thread so as to reflect its content?
Thank you.

[I. Spaceman]

we all had  mild trepidation after the SS debacle-who wouldn't?

Pete Townshend, Robbie Robertson and Steven Tyler? And many, many others?

[guitarfool2002]

Rolling Stone's review of 20/20, by Arthur Schmidt, printed April 19, 1969 has a few interesting points to consider. Without having the time to transcribe the whole thing...

Schmidt says of Cabinessence: "Cabinessence, the last cut on the second side, is one of the finest things Brian has ever done, a product of the Smiley Smile collaboration with Parks, whose extraordinary gift is to make a cliche grow into a world...The totally orchestrated cacophony was an innovation when they used it in Smiley Smile, and is still done here better than anywhere else.

Schmidt says of "Our Prayer": "Our Prayer is a nice prayer, but undemanding."

(Personal view: Outside of a Smile context, I think he's right - it's a nice vocal track but totally devoid of context on 20/20. The context of Smile adds an incredible amount to the experience of hearing Our Prayer)

Notice he speaks of the Wilson-Parks collaboration in terms of Smiley Smile: as of April 1969, in the eyes of the public, that was the only product to be released from the collaboration. Interesting, because Paul Williams, Jules Siegel, Anderle, Vosse, and others had been quoted and/or had written specifically about Smile by 1969, yet the only concrete, finished products to read "Wilson Parks" were on Smiley Smile, so that's how it was described here by the writer.

I saw no mention of Smile in this review, although it does offer some pretty high praise for the other songs on the album, contrary to what many have thought about Rolling Stone's negative take on the Beach Boys in the late 60's.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Can I be annoying for a moment and suggest that people put the actual substance of their post in the thread title?  There is no way I would have clicked on something so vague, but I saw that my eminent colleague Guitarfool had posted, and it turns out it's not such an uninteresting topic.

Perhaps something like "Did people realize there were Smile songs on 20/20?" or such like?


IN response to the substance, it is hard to get a feel for the context of the times.  At that time, nobody really knew, in the general public, what the Beach Boys were in essence sitting upon, and that these snippets that showed up on 20/20 were just the tip of the iceberg.  If you believe in the grand unification theory of Smile, taking things out of context would be a bit of a sacrilege.  I agree that Prayer on 20/20 does almost nothing for me.  Doesn't make sense on there.  Cabinessence barely does.  Of course, I'm glad that people at the time got to hear it sooner rather than later, and that we've been able to live with it for a lot longer than most other Smile songs. 

Not as bad as putting Look on 15 Big Ones, I guess.   

[I. Spaceman]

Rolling Stone's review of 20/20, by Arthur Schmidt, printed April 19, 1969 has a few interesting points to consider. Without having the time to transcribe the whole thing...

Schmidt says of Cabinessence: "Cabinessence, the last cut on the second side, is one of the finest things Brian has ever done, a product of the Smiley Smile collaboration with Parks, whose extraordinary gift is to make a cliche grow into a world...The totally orchestrated cacophony was an innovation when they used it in Smiley Smile, and is still done here better than anywhere else.

Schmidt says of "Our Prayer": "Our Prayer is a nice prayer, but undemanding."

(Personal view: Outside of a Smile context, I think he's right - it's a nice vocal track but totally devoid of context on 20/20. The context of Smile adds an incredible amount to the experience of hearing Our Prayer)

Notice he speaks of the Wilson-Parks collaboration in terms of Smiley Smile: as of April 1969, in the eyes of the public, that was the only product to be released from the collaboration. Interesting, because Paul Williams, Jules Siegel, Anderle, Vosse, and others had been quoted and/or had written specifically about Smile by 1969, yet the only concrete, finished products to read "Wilson Parks" were on Smiley Smile, so that's how it was described here by the writer.

I saw no mention of Smile in this review, although it does offer some pretty high praise for the other songs on the album, contrary to what many have thought about Rolling Stone's negative take on the Beach Boys in the late 60's.

Nice mention of a review I have always liked. Despite what many people think, the magazine gave solid reviews to the band in this era, starting with Wild Honey (praised by Jann Wenner, no less).

[Doo Dah]

Fascinating going back and considering how these works were appreciated back in the day.

In college I used to visit the music school's library which had a collection of Stereo Review(s) going back to the 50's. Read an amusing comparison between two new releases by the Beatles and the Stones - White Album vs. Beggars Banquet. The review slammed the White Album for being unfocused, self indulgent and unimpressive, while Banquet was a concise, fully realized rock statement. Funny that...the White Album is appreciated because it's a rambling mess o ' sound. Wonder how Stereo Review woulda received Exile...

I first heard 20/20 via the Warner yellow double sets in the 70's. Had no idea about the Smile connection, but Cabi and Our Prayer sure made an impression upon me. In fact those two Warner double sets completely refocused my appreciation of the band.

[wavedancer]

 Hey this is driving me crazy trying to think when I was first aware about tracks that would have been on Smile.
 Although I was already aware that GV and H&V would have been on it. I do know that when I bought 20/20
 in '69 the two ( Smile) tracks blew me away completely, and still do.

[Roger Ryan]

...I first heard 20/20 via the Warner yellow double sets in the 70's. Had no idea about the Smile connection, but Cabi and Our Prayer sure made an impression upon me. In fact those two Warner double sets completely refocused my appreciation of the band...

So did I, but I believe the liner notes in the Warner reissue alluded to "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence" as being from SMiLE...or perhaps I deduced this after reading the SMILEY SMILE liner notes that discussed SMiLE. Either way, 20/20 felt like the Beach Boys' WHITE ALBUM in that it contained songs that appeared to originate with individual members with little to no thematic or sonic flow ("All I Want To Do" into "The Nearest Faraway Place" represents the most jarring change of tone I've ever heard). Since everything appears out of place on the album, the inclusion of the SMiLE tracks is less distracting than it might have been on the previous two albums.

[Jason]

we all had  mild trepidation after the SS debacle-who wouldn't?

Pete Townshend, Robbie Robertson and Steven Tyler? And many, many others?

Said it before. Will say it again. Those who don't like Smiley Smile don't get it, are not real fans, and can't hang.

[Jason]

...I first heard 20/20 via the Warner yellow double sets in the 70's. Had no idea about the Smile connection, but Cabi and Our Prayer sure made an impression upon me. In fact those two Warner double sets completely refocused my appreciation of the band...

So did I, but I believe the liner notes in the Warner reissue alluded to "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence" as being from SMiLE...or perhaps I deduced this after reading the SMILEY SMILE liner notes that discussed SMiLE. Either way, 20/20 felt like the Beach Boys' WHITE ALBUM in that it contained songs that appeared to originate with individual members with little to no thematic or sonic flow ("All I Want To Do" into "The Nearest Faraway Place" represents the most jarring change of tone I've ever heard). Since everything appears out of place on the album, the inclusion of the SMiLE tracks is less distracting than it might have been on the previous two albums.

You know, the liners on the 1974 two-fers are among the best I've ever read about the Beach Boys.

[I. Spaceman]

we all had  mild trepidation after the SS debacle-who wouldn't?

Pete Townshend, Robbie Robertson and Steven Tyler? And many, many others?

Said it before. Will say it again. Those who don't like Smiley Smile don't get it, are not real fans, and can't hang.

I agree with that wholeheartedly. That was the album that got me into the group, and I'd already heard Pet Sounds many times.

[Roger Ryan]

...I first heard 20/20 via the Warner yellow double sets in the 70's. Had no idea about the Smile connection, but Cabi and Our Prayer sure made an impression upon me. In fact those two Warner double sets completely refocused my appreciation of the band...

So did I, but I believe the liner notes in the Warner reissue alluded to "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence" as being from SMiLE...or perhaps I deduced this after reading the SMILEY SMILE liner notes that discussed SMiLE. Either way, 20/20 felt like the Beach Boys' WHITE ALBUM in that it contained songs that appeared to originate with individual members with little to no thematic or sonic flow ("All I Want To Do" into "The Nearest Faraway Place" represents the most jarring change of tone I've ever heard). Since everything appears out of place on the album, the inclusion of the SMiLE tracks is less distracting than it might have been on the previous two albums.

You know, the liners on the 1974 two-fers are among the best I've ever read about the Beach Boys.

Thirty years later, the author of those liners, Gene Sculatti, wrote the BWPS preview for ICE magazine which helped make the whole SMiLE story come full circle for me.

His background shows that he was the right man for the job...
http://www.genesculatti.com/bio.asp

[Jason]

we all had  mild trepidation after the SS debacle-who wouldn't?

Pete Townshend, Robbie Robertson and Steven Tyler? And many, many others?

Said it before. Will say it again. Those who don't like Smiley Smile don't get it, are not real fans, and can't hang.

I agree with that wholeheartedly. That was the album that got me into the group, and I'd already heard Pet Sounds many times.

I come back to it more than any other Beach Boys album save Sunflower.

[Dave in KC]

The Summer of '69 would not nearly have been as memorable without 20/20. Easy call. SMiLE connection knowledge or not.