Karen

[Amanda Hart]

Does anyone know who produced this song? I've searched all through my books and the interwebs and have not been able to find any confirmation for that. I did find an acetate that sold at auction in 2007 here: http://entertainment.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=647&lotNo=22192#Photo

It's from Western, so I don't know if that may narrow it down a little more, since I basically couldn't find any other information about it's recording. My instinct was that it was produced by the song writers (J. Marshall, B. Mosher) or some other TV guys and not by Brian, but I would like to get some hard evidence. Any information or shoves in the right direction would be appreciated!

[JanBerryFarm]

You mean the Beach Boys version? Probably a guy named Brian Wilson.

Or do you mean the Surfaris version? Not sure who produced that. Perhaps, Mr. Dant

Eitherway, it's a fun, if formulaic little ditty. I enjoy Monkeys Uncle a lot more.

[Amanda Hart]

You mean the Beach Boys version? Probably a guy named Brian Wilson.

Yes. I know it probably was Brian but stuff recorded specifically for TV and movies can be unusual, so I'm trying to find some hard proof.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

The last time this came up on the board, we pretty much agreed that the info was not really out there.

There certainly don't seem to be great records about the session or anything.  We might not even be able to assume it's actually Beach Boys playing instruments on the track, and my first instinct would be to say that Brian wouldn't have produced it, also like, say, Monkey's Uncle.  But nobody knows, unless someone's done some great work recently.

[petsite]

I am going to take a shot and say that the producer was either Brian Wilson or Jack Marshall. Jack not only composed the song but was also a producer at Capitol at the time. They could have even combined talents to co-produce.

[JanBerryFarm]

I am going to take a shot and say that the producer was either Brian Wilson or Jack Marshall. Jack not only composed the song but was also a producer at Capitol at the time. They could have even combined talents to co-produce.

Yes..co-producing was not unusual.

[Jason Penick]

The last time this came up on the board, we pretty much agreed that the info was not really out there.

There certainly don't seem to be great records about the session or anything.  We might not even be able to assume it's actually Beach Boys playing instruments on the track, and my first instinct would be to say that Brian wouldn't have produced it, also like, say, Monkey's Uncle.  But nobody knows, unless someone's done some great work recently.

Well according to this acetate, at least we can tell that it was recorded at Western.

http://entertainment.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=647&lotNo=22192#250250995

Looks as though the proper title is actually "Karen Theme", and that there are two different edits.

[Jason Penick]

double post, sorry.

[Amanda Hart]

Well according to this acetate, at least we can tell that it was recorded at Western.

http://entertainment.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=647&lotNo=22192#250250995

Looks as though the proper title is actually "Karen Theme", and that there are two different edits.

AFAIK, one edit is a fully realized, traditionally structured song, and the other is the edit used for the show opening.

I didn't know that Jack Marshall was a producer at Capitol, so that helps. I'm going to find more information about him and see if that leads anywhere.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian did not produce "Karen". Sound like a 1964 BW production... or even a 1963 one ?

[JanBerryFarm]

Brian did not produce "Karen". Sound like a 1964 BW production... or even a 1963 one ?

That's obviously the result of some exhaustive in-depth research. 

[guitarfool2002]

Well according to this acetate, at least we can tell that it was recorded at Western.

http://entertainment.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=647&lotNo=22192#250250995

Looks as though the proper title is actually "Karen Theme", and that there are two different edits.

AFAIK, one edit is a fully realized, traditionally structured song, and the other is the edit used for the show opening.

I didn't know that Jack Marshall was a producer at Capitol, so that helps. I'm going to find more information about him and see if that leads anywhere.

Jack Marshall was one of *the* pop/jazz producers at Capitol during this time having built up his resume through the 50's as a composer and jazz guitarist with a handful of solo albums and production credits on hits like "Fever" by Peggy lee (although Jack's contributions to that specific song are still in doubt...).

As far as television theme songs, around this same time he wrote the theme for The Munsters...featuring Howard Roberts on guitar...and wrote some of the incidental music for that show as well. Everyone knows the Munsters theme even though it's instrumental. So his cache as a composer for television was pretty high in the mid 60's.

Just a quick background: Jack Marshall was an excellent guitarist and brought musicians like Howard Roberts into the spotlight through Capitol, and into both session work and success as a solo artist or act. Howard Roberts' albums on Capitol which he made with Jack producing in the 60's, specifically "HR Is A Dirty Guitar Player" and "Color Him Funky" from the early 60's are terrific jazz guitar albums which have something of a rabid cult following among guitarists (myself included). The sound of those records is absolutely amazing, recorded at Capitol.

Put it all together, maybe Jack Marshall as writer and producer wanted one of the hotter bands for the teen market on this "Karen" theme song squarely aimed at that teen market, and apart from The Beatles his go-to band would have been the Beach Boys. If it sounds like a Brian production, than it might have been. If it doesn't sound like Brian, then they were working for Jack Marshall as the band. I think there is no doubt at this point who actually composed the song.

[Aegir]

This song sounds like it was designed for the Beach Boys to sing. The Surfaris version sounds like a Beach Boys cover.

[Amanda Hart]

Put it all together, maybe Jack Marshall as writer and producer wanted one of the hotter bands for the teen market on this "Karen" theme song squarely aimed at that teen market, and apart from The Beatles his go-to band would have been the Beach Boys. If it sounds like a Brian production, than it might have been. If it doesn't sound like Brian, then they were working for Jack Marshall as the band. I think there is no doubt at this point who actually composed the song.

Thanks for the info, all the background information confirms what I was able to find with a little more sleuthing this weekend. I did find hard evidence that he produced the Munsters theme and many other TV songs, so I gotta think he did Karen too. There's absolutely no doubt that he composed it, it's listed in the BMI database, under both "Karen" and "Karen's Theme": http://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&keyID=793369&ShowNbr=0&ShowSeqNbr=0&querytype=WorkID

With everything in mind, I'm pretty sure Marshall produced this track. All signs point in that direction, I was just hoping for some definitive proof.

[Jason Penick]

Just a quick background: Jack Marshall was an excellent guitarist and brought musicians like Howard Roberts into the spotlight through Capitol, and into both session work and success as a solo artist or act. Howard Roberts' albums on Capitol which he made with Jack producing in the 60's, specifically "HR Is A Dirty Guitar Player" and "Color Him Funky" from the early 60's are terrific jazz guitar albums which have something of a rabid cult following among guitarists (myself included). The sound of those records is absolutely amazing, recorded at Capitol.

Howard Roberts is a boss guitarist, and jammed quite a bit with both Barney Kessel and Chico Hamilton. A-list credentials right there.

Back to the topic at hand though; now I'm starting to wonder if the leaked version of "Karen Theme" we've all heard is the edit, and that there's a full length version out there with BB vocals.

Does anyone know what became of that acetate?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Does anyone know what became of that acetate?

Yup. 

[Jason Penick]

Does anyone know what became of that acetate?

Yup. 

Cheeky! 

Care to comment on my last postulation? (That the edited version of "Karen" on the acetate is the one familiar to fans, and that there is a full length version on the other side.)

[guitarfool2002]

Just a quick background: Jack Marshall was an excellent guitarist and brought musicians like Howard Roberts into the spotlight through Capitol, and into both session work and success as a solo artist or act. Howard Roberts' albums on Capitol which he made with Jack producing in the 60's, specifically "HR Is A Dirty Guitar Player" and "Color Him Funky" from the early 60's are terrific jazz guitar albums which have something of a rabid cult following among guitarists (myself included). The sound of those records is absolutely amazing, recorded at Capitol.

Howard Roberts is a boss guitarist, and jammed quite a bit with both Barney Kessel and Chico Hamilton. A-list credentials right there.

He also founded what is now called Guitar Institute of Technology, which branched into various Bass, Musicians...etc institutes. It's the go-to school for modern music instruction on the West Coast. Howard's legacy as a teacher, instructor, lecturer, etc. is as great among guitarists as his actual recordings! I described his appeal among guitarists as a rabid cult following, and that's the best I can use to describe it. Among guitarists of a certain mindset, he's among the elite. And when you go through his credits, all of those "anonymous" guitar parts on things like The Munsters theme, I'd guess nearly everyone of a certain age has liked his work without knowing it.



Some further info on the Karen acetate would indeed be nice  . The only additional info I've ever seen on the show itself was a few promos of it from the network previews back in the day, it seems to have sunk pretty fast without syndication or repeats.

[Zach95]

Just a quick background: Jack Marshall was an excellent guitarist and brought musicians like Howard Roberts into the spotlight through Capitol, and into both session work and success as a solo artist or act. Howard Roberts' albums on Capitol which he made with Jack producing in the 60's, specifically "HR Is A Dirty Guitar Player" and "Color Him Funky" from the early 60's are terrific jazz guitar albums which have something of a rabid cult following among guitarists (myself included). The sound of those records is absolutely amazing, recorded at Capitol.

Howard Roberts is a boss guitarist, and jammed quite a bit with both Barney Kessel and Chico Hamilton. A-list credentials right there.

He also founded what is now called Guitar Institute of Technology, which branched into various Bass, Musicians...etc institutes. It's the go-to school for modern music instruction on the West Coast. Howard's legacy as a teacher, instructor, lecturer, etc. is as great among guitarists as his actual recordings! I described his appeal among guitarists as a rabid cult following, and that's the best I can use to describe it. Among guitarists of a certain mindset, he's among the elite. And when you go through his credits, all of those "anonymous" guitar parts on things like The Munsters theme, I'd guess nearly everyone of a certain age has liked his work without knowing it.



Some further info on the Karen acetate would indeed be nice  . The only additional info I've ever seen on the show itself was a few promos of it from the network previews back in the day, it seems to have sunk pretty fast without syndication or repeats.

At which Probyn Gregory attended.

[guitarfool2002]

Back to the show Karen, here's some more trivia, info, and factoids about the show for the archives:

- The show was produced by Kayro-Vue, part of Universal. Kayro-Vue also produced The Munsters at this same time, which Jack Marshall also wrote the theme song and parts of the score. Perhaps Jack Marshall was either under contract with or wrote music for Kayro-Vue as part of a deal they had.  Listening to incidental music from Karen, I also heard jazz guitar phrases which sounded an awful lot like Howard Roberts or Jack Marshall himself - that would make sense.

- The show ran for a little less than a year, from 10/64 to 8/65, and was broadcast Monday nights on NBC from 7:30 to 8 PM. Monday nights was seemingly a big night for "teen" shows in general. The year after Karen went off the schedule, NBC would fill the 7:30 Monday slot with a show called "The Monkees" in 1966.

- Bob Mosher is the co-writer of the song with Jack Marshall, but he was also the co-writer and co-producer of the show itself. It would seem Mosher *may have* written some lyrics for what he wanted the theme to say, tied in to the show, then handed it off to Marshall for the music. Mosher's writing credit and his role with the show itself would suggest a non-musical role in the song.

- Sources say the Karen show was one of a series of shows NBC had around a bigger concept called "90 Bristol Court", where the plots were loosely based around people living at that address...yet the TV listings I have list the show "Karen" as a standalone show, no mention of a larger concept or connection to a group of shows. If it were part of a rotating schedule of plots and characters that changed every week, it would be easy to see how it fell off the schedule. But I haven't seen enough to prove anything.

So here's some archival material:

Karen, the opening credits and theme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iJXcOJ9VQ8

Karen, a few minutes of the actual show featuring original commercial breaks and sponsors. (The kind of 60's ads Don, Peggy, and the crew from Mad Men would be making in real life...):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK2eBjhuGvI

And the Karen closing credits, showing both the Beach Boys and Marshall's "official" credits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY-zrCpHmQ8

Also an original summer 1965 TV Guide listing from my collection, showing a Karen rerun listing on NBC 3 in Philly...and following Karen at 8PM was "The Man From UNCLE". Love 60's tv...



I hope that adds some info to the archives!

[Amanda Hart]

- Sources say the Karen show was one of a series of shows NBC had around a bigger concept called "90 Bristol Court", where the plots were loosely based around people living at that address...yet the TV listings I have list the show "Karen" as a standalone show, no mention of a larger concept or connection to a group of shows. If it were part of a rotating schedule of plots and characters that changed every week, it would be easy to see how it fell off the schedule. But I haven't seen enough to prove anything.

Apparently all 2 hours of NBC's prime time programming on Monday night in the 1964 season were part of this "90 Bristol Court" concept. I found references to the shows being advertised that way, and this site shows ASCAP listings for Ninety Bristol Court Theme used to tie the shows together: http://www.classicthemes.com/50sTVThemes/themePages/90bristolCourt.html

[guitarfool2002]

The "90 Bristol Court" concept must have fallen apart fast because by 1965 Karen was a standalone show and nothing around it was related to the concept, least of all "Man From UNCLE"...   Perhaps the "Karen" portion of the story arc got the most positive response so they tried to spin it off into its own show and the other stories disappeared.

I wish I had more of those 60's TV Guides in my collection so it could be easily fact-checked, dated, and confirmed. They're the best reference for that sort of info.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

The Man from UNCLE wasn't living at 90 Bristol Court when he went home for the night?

[JanBerryFarm]

The show was under the wings of Mosher & Connolly, who, as some may recall, were the men behind the Leave It To Beaver show.
That being the case, I think we could have expected more in the way of overall production values.

Debbie Watson, who played Karen Scott, was described as the perky typical 60's girl. Frankly, she didn't do it for me. Nice figure and all, but to me she looked like a blend of Lesley Gore and Hayley Mills. I thought the mother was better looking, actually.

But hey...... it's about the Beach Boys, don'tcha know?

I've listened to it carefully. It doesn't sound like Dennis drumming. But the rest of it sounds fairly Beach Boys like.

Crummy show. Dopey song. ("hey! That's KAREN!)  

what's not to like?

 

[Jason Penick]

Apparently all 2 hours of NBC's prime time programming on Monday night in the 1964 season were part of this "90 Bristol Court" concept. I found references to the shows being advertised that way, and this site shows ASCAP listings for Ninety Bristol Court Theme used to tie the shows together: http://www.classicthemes.com/50sTVThemes/themePages/90bristolCourt.html

Great info there. Cool to see that the two other show themes in the 90 Bristol Court block were written by Pete Rugalo and Lalo Shefrin, two of my all time favorite arrangers.

If I had to guess based on the time period, 90 Bristol Court might have been something of a response to the popular at the time Peyton Place or 77 Sunset Strip.