Do Sail On, Sailor vocals of Carl or Dennis exist?

[drbeachboy]

If you think Blondie's vocal is a mistake, it is not his to make, it's the producer's.  When I hear Sail-On, Sailor I don't hear a mistake, a bad take, or a take over of the vocal. I hear Carl's take through Blondie, and I also hear Blondie's take.

Thank you, Stephen. Just to be clear, I was replying to Dr. Lenny's assertion that Carl giving the SOS vocal to Blondie was a mistake. I don't think Carl's selection of Blondie to be the lead vocalist was a mistake at all. Quite the contrary. I think Blondie added a lot of soul and feeling to the song with his vocal.

I think it was a mistake giving the lead to Blondie in that a non-BB became forever associated with it. I know at the time him and Ricky were full time members (sort of) but c'mon!

It's the original, but sounds like a cover version. Not a popular thought around here, I understand.

Well, there is no "sort of", they were Beach Boys. Can't have revisionist history going on in here, can we? You have to admit, that in concert, they were one kick-ass band during that stage of their career. Forty years later you can say it sounds like a cover, but in 1972-1973 it was great, new and quite different for them in composition and style. So, why not in vocal sound, as well.

[Don Malcolm]

Blondie was/is a great singer, and we should keep in mind that Carl wanted him to sing lead for SOS, which ought to count for something.

I have a question for Mr. Desper or anyone else who can answer it--the (mostly) backing track of SOS that Alan Boyd included on the Hawthorne compilation...is that the final backing track from the 11/72 session? Apologies if this has been covered before...it sounds like it, but the a capella section at the end doesn't quite seem like what we hear on the finished version (perhaps it's already faded out by then so that the little oddities in the vocals are simply inaudible)? Would appreciate any clarification...

[Stephen W. Desper]

I found out it's also the only one with normal pitch (A=440 Hz). Maybe due to a different voltage in Holland (220V), or just different tapespeed, all the other tracks have a fraction of a lower pitch.

COMMENT:  In Europe A=441 or 443 Hz. Not much of a change, but if you can hear it you've got better ears than most.  A piano tuner in Holland would use the standard for Europe to tune Brian's piano. From that tuning would hang all the other instrument tuning and, of course, vocal pitch. 
~swd

[Jaco]

It's simple, I don't have dog ears, but when I try to play along with the Holland album (on CD), I really have to tune my guitar lower than normal. (except for Sail On Sailor)

I also knew because I did a research for all the original keys of the catalogue, since many score music that is published legally, or on the internet, uses transpositions.

I tried to give some explanation but in fact I've not that much of technical knowledge.

[Stephen W. Desper]

It's simple, I don't have dog ears, but when I try to play along with the Holland album (on CD), I really have to tune my guitar lower than normal. (except for Sail On Sailor)

I also knew because I did a research for all the original keys of the catalogue, since many score music that is published legally, or on the internet, uses transpositions.

I tried to give some explanation but in fact I've not that much of technical knowledge.

COMMENT:  This is a fascinating phenomena. Tape recorder speed is dependent upon frequency, not voltage. In the USA it is 60 Hz., in Europe it is 50 Hz. Sail-On, Sailor was recorded in the USA. I have monitored the frequency of AC power in Los Angeles from time to time. It is always at 60Hz withing 1/100 of a percent, well within the required standards. So I would expect SOS to be in tune.

I have no idea what recording equipment the engineers used in The Netherlands where the voltage-frequency is 50 Hz. If they took recorders from the States and used converters to keep the speed at 15 IPS, errors could creep in and/or such converters are only accurate to the degree of regulation designed into them. Remember you have both a multi-track and a mixdown two-channel recorders to regulate. Depending on the brand of recorder used, some have internal regulation and are designed for 50 Hz operation with the simple flip of a switch. Other brands do not have this feature. If they rented machines from a European supplier, the speed problem should not exist. You would not notice an speed problem while recording and playing a tape in Europe. But when the tape is mastered in the USA, the speed problem, if there was one, would surface at that time. Usually Mastering Houses do not change the speed of the master tapes they master, so any deviation would not be corrected.

Technical data on frequency accuracy in USA >>> http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/mains/

Technical data on frequency accuracy in Holland >>> http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains.html

And by the way . . . "dog ears" would not be the appropriate term in this case. Yes dogs can hear about one or two octaves higher than the average teenager, but this is not the case with pitch. Researchers have found that dogs can only discriminate between about three notes per octave. In other words, humans can hear pitch changes of about 35 steps per octave. Dogs only hear 3 steps per octave. So if you are talking to a dog and don't move your voice up and down very much, it sounds like you are speaking with the same pitch to them. Same with music.

Dog Reference >>> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-dogs-dont-enjoy-music  
 
~swd

[Banana]

Mr. Desper...thanks for all of the info in this thread.  Absolutely fascinating!!